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Scuba Forum / General / April 2007newbie Q & A - safety devices
hi - Our older son is with a group that has just started their OW cert class. I went around to some of the local shops to see the equipment, etc. A couple of things popped into my head... wonder if they have been invented ? #1 - underwater alarm for when your PSI/time/capacity on your gauge has reached a pre-set threshold ? #2 - what happens when you surface, you have drifted far away, and the boat is at some distance. Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? #3 is there any kind of regulator that directs the bubbles away from your face ? tnx - learning as we go... > #1 - underwater alarm for when your PSI/time/capacity on your gauge > has reached a pre-set threshold ? > #2 - what happens when you surface, you have drifted far away, > and the boat is at some distance. > Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? A guy that used to hang out here made such a device. It was called a "Stroke Alert". > #3 is there any kind of regulator that directs the bubbles away from your > face ? Generally avoided by not kneeling on the bottom....... > hi - > Our older son is with a group that has just started their OW cert class. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > tnx - learning as we go... You are likely to get a bunch of smart aleck responses because your post seems a bit like "you must be pulling our collective leg". > You are likely to get a bunch of smart aleck responses because your post > seems a bit like "you must be pulling our collective leg". Oh, come on Chilly, where do you get such wild & crazy ideas from. > hi - > Our older son is with a group that has just started their OW cert class. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > #1 - underwater alarm for when your PSI/time/capacity on your gauge > has reached a pre-set threshold ? Various regulators going back to the '50s have made an audible signal when pressure dropped below a certain point, the most popular as a result of a design fault that was then marketed as a "safety benefit". Modern pressure sensing computers make all sorts of racket to wake up the deadheads that are unable or unwilling to check their pressure gauges once in a while. > #2 - what happens when you surface, you have drifted far away, > and the boat is at some distance. > Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? Drift divers tow a flag to mark their position. Most divers carry a "safety sausage", a rolled-up, inflatable signal device. There are many other inneffectual devices designed to seperate a newbie from his father's money > #3 is there any kind of regulator that directs the bubbles away from your face ? This was a very minor problem with early regulators, from Guillaumet's 1839 reg through the Rouquayrol & Denayrouze reg and up to the GC47 with which Georges Commeinhes set the open circuit SCUBA record of 174 feet off Marseille in July, 1943. When Gagnan modified his reg for Cousteau in the mid-1940s, he moved the exhaust to the back-mounted reg as a temporary solution to the problems of unequal reg and mouth pressures. As the location of the exhaust valve was the only patentable feature of the regulator, and as Cousteau was looking for something he could call "new", it was patented and marketed that way. The fact that a few years later the world had gone to two stage single hose regs proves that a few exhaust bubbles under the face is not a very big deal. It's only rarely they're even noticed. > tnx - learning as we go... >> hi - >> Our older son is with a group that has just started their OW cert class. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > hose regs proves that a few exhaust bubbles under the face is not a very > big deal. It's only rarely they're even noticed. I put a 12" exhaust hose on my first regulator (3/8 fuel line, IMA), to vent behind my head. It worked pretty good. > I put a 12" exhaust hose on my first regulator (3/8 fuel line, IMA), to > vent behind my head. > > It worked pretty good. 3/8 is awfully small, and I suspect it wouldn't work inverted. I'll have to try it some time. esg >> I put a 12" exhaust hose on my first regulator (3/8 fuel line, IMA), to >> vent behind my head. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > esg It worked great, for flow. I plugged one side of the vent w/silicone, and ran the hose out the other. I was looking for some kinda snorkel vent spring/ball arrangement to keep it from backfilling, but changed regulators. You'd have to kind of clear it once in a while, if you got inverted. The big difference was not in the bubbles, but the -noise-, or lack thereof. >>> I put a 12" exhaust hose on my first regulator (3/8 fuel line, IMA), to >>>vent behind my head. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > The big difference was not in the bubbles, but the -noise-, or lack > thereof. Sounds like something only a crazy fool would do. I'll try it on an old Oceanic I have. esg > Drift divers tow a flag to mark their position. Most divers carry a > "safety sausage", a rolled-up, inflatable signal device. There are many > other inneffectual devices designed to seperate a newbie from his father's > money I remember back when I was prepping for my AOW, an over-enthusiastic dive shop employee tried to sell me a strobe. Told me it's for the search helicopter if necessary, if I was unfortunate enough to get stranded during my first night dive. I replied something to the effect of it's Boynton Beach, I have lights, I'll be on the beach before the helicopter launches if that happens, and the Captain won't need a strobe for me to find him. Curtis > > Drift divers tow a flag to mark their position. Most divers carry a > > "safety sausage", a rolled-up, inflatable signal device. There are many [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'll be on the beach before the helicopter launches if that happens, and the > Captain won't need a strobe for me to find him. Stroke alert. What if it were some wayward current, swept you off to Cuba? With your beard, you'd be taken as an apparition for a young giant Fidel, and the people would worship you as a god. That is, until your beach landing were discovered, and they "stoned" you to death with large cinderblocks. Fortunately for you, you're the Wonder Woman of smashing cinderblocks, but your quick getaway means an 80 mile swim against the current that brought you there and you'll sorely be missing some freediving fins in favor of the DIR turtles that fit your big feet. Don't say I didn't tell you so. That DIR stuff will kill you. > Stroke alert. Never bought one from Jammie. > What if it were some wayward current, swept you off to > Cuba? Reckon I could swim the mile across the current first. Still can. Damn, Lee and Limey know how to swim a mile, and I bet a few others could. (Want to is a different issue.) Not everyone's a vegetable in the water. <grin> Wanna try the swim test I'll have to do for my next Cert? > With your beard, you'd be taken as an apparition for a young > giant Fidel, and the people would worship you as a god. That is, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > your big feet. Don't say I didn't tell you so. That DIR stuff will > kill you. Damn, gotta correct you again. Mine are Jets, not Turtles. Bought them when I still was only PADI, in fact for OW training, only change is spring traps. That was my PADI AOW, before I even heard of the right stuff. Was before I even tried bricks, wasn't even wearing Black then. Hell, I was older than you are now when I started that, much less the year I broke the first bone in my own body, and won a division with an hours old broken breaking arm. Never underestimate me. ;-) See, you still have time to mend your evil ways, youngster. <grin> Curtis > Wanna try the swim test I'll have to do for my next Cert? You have to swim upstream up Blue Springs without any fins? > Reckon I could swim the mile across the current first. Still can. Maybe there you could. In other locales you might not be so lucky. > Damn, Lee and Limey know how to swim a mile, and I bet a few others > could. (Want to is a different issue.) > > Not everyone's a vegetable in the water. <grin> > > Wanna try the swim test I'll have to do for my next Cert? Sure. What is it? > Damn, Lee and Limey know how to swim a mile, and I bet a few others could. At the time, a long time ago, I was the yougest to swim the 2.75 miles across the lake where we used to vacation, without mask, snorkel or fins. I completed the mile swim while in Boy Scouts. Sometime around age 19, I was working as a Water Safety Instructor, teaching swimming, lifesaving and working as a Dade County lifeguard. Swimming a mile with fins is something I would still do for fun. Fighting a current doing it, on the surface, with full scuba gear and no snorkel was not quite as much fun, but the bonus for the day, lobster for everyone, made it worth the effort. I'd do it again . . . probably. Lee > I completed the mile swim while in Boy Scouts. Likewise.......in Lake Norris, nothing but a swimsuit. > Swimming a mile with fins is something I would still do for fun. Fighting > a current doing it, on the surface, with full scuba gear and no snorkel > was not quite as much fun, but the bonus for the day, lobster for > everyone, made it worth the effort. I'd do it again . . . probably. Yeah, we gotta get John Hanson to do the swim out. I'm using full tanks next time though. Curtis > Yeah, we gotta get John Hanson to do the swim out. > I'm using full tanks next time though. I can't believe you didn't take him all the way to the reef last time. I'm game, but only during lobster season. That reef needs something extra to make it worth the swim. Lee >> Wanna try the swim test I'll have to do for my next Cert? > > Sure. What is it? 400 yards/365 meters in less than 14 minutes without stopping. Fresh water, swimsuit. I sink in fresh water. Not really that far, but the time will be a bit of a challenge for me. Curtis > >> Wanna try the swim test I'll have to do for my next Cert? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Not really that far, but the time will be a bit of a challenge for me. 14 minutes? But that's only 8 laps. 8 minutes should be plenty. > 400 yards/365 meters in less than 14 minutes without stopping. > Fresh water, swimsuit. I sink in fresh water. I presume this means no fins. As you note, the distance is no big deal. Once upon a time, I would have said the time limit wasn't either. That time has probably passed. Age, too sedintary a work/lifestyle, too many years of smoking, even though I quit years ago, and a case of pneumonia a couple years ago have all taken their toll. It would be interesting to try, though. Lee > >> Wanna try the swim test I'll have to do for my next Cert? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Curtis Does stroke matter (as in freestyle/breast/fly/back)? If not, I'm fairly certain that I could easily finish that tomorrow. As a matter of fact, I should be at the YMCA this afternoon. Maybe I'll try it out then. In high school, 500 yards was about a 9 minute process for me. I wasn't very fast then, and I've slowed down considerably in the interim, but I don't think it'd be much of a problem. Especially if I can mix freestyle and breaststroke. > > >> Wanna try the swim test I'll have to do for my next Cert? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > slowed down considerably in the interim, but I don't think it'd be much of a problem. Especially if > I can mix freestyle and breaststroke. I used 1 min/lap as my standard too (based on a 25-yard olympic-sized pool). A basic front crawl, two strokes per breath, and the 8 laps in 8 minutes should be a easy sustainable pace. Having big "flipper" feet, I've always been much faster at the crawl than the breast. High school girls do the 400 IM in less than 5 minutes and that's four different strokes. 400 freestyles are usually done as relays - then times of under 4 minutes aren't unheard of. > I used 1 min/lap as my standard too (based on a 25-yard olympic-sized > pool). A basic front crawl, two strokes per breath, and the 8 laps in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > different strokes. 400 freestyles are usually done as relays - then > times of under 4 minutes aren't unheard of. No doubt competative type swimmers wouldn't consider that a challenge. I am not a fast swimmer, but steady enough. But, can you do it now? And, my last one was not lapping in a pool, it was in a 71 deg spring run, out and back twice, so add current, no kicking off walls on turnaround, no cute lane stripes to guide you in a straight line, air temp about 60. I'd pay to watch you attempt now, in natural conditions, not in your "Glory Days". ;-) I remember my cycling days, where 12 hours was allowed by the LAW to complete a sanctioned Century, I comfortably averaged under 8 hours, my fastest was 5h, 36m, 19s. My last one was about nine. Really good riders go under 4. The vast majority of weekend riders wouldn't even consider trying a hundred miles. Curtis > But, can you do it now? And, my last one was not lapping in a pool, it > was in a 71 deg spring run, out and back twice, so add current, no kicking > off walls on turnaround, no cute lane stripes to guide you in a straight > line, air temp about 60. I'd pay to watch you attempt now, in natural > conditions, not in your "Glory Days". ;-) How much would you pay? I'm not much for breaking bricks, but a swimming challenge is my cup of tea. You want real-world conditions, forget about your fresh water springs. Let's do it in the manly Pacific, with real currents, real swells, and salt water to help your buoyancy. If you win, I'll reimburse your airfare. You can stay here and warm up in my pool - it's measuring 68 right now. > I remember my cycling days, where 12 hours was allowed by the LAW to > complete a sanctioned Century, I comfortably averaged under 8 hours, my > fastest was 5h, 36m, 19s. My last one was about nine. Really good riders > go under 4. The vast majority of weekend riders wouldn't even consider > trying a hundred miles. I'd be glad if I could make it just make it up the street on a bike, though with my coordination, I might pose a challenge to you on breaking asphalt with my head. There's no doubt I'm a fish out of water, my fate being born on the cusp of Pisces. >> But, can you do it now? And, my last one was not lapping in a pool, >> it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How much would you pay? Not enough to pay your air fare, but I imagine dinner and beer. As I said, not a super challenge overall, but more than the recreational swim test, and I'd find it a challenge. You may do well if you're a swimmer, but I'd still enjoy watching you not breezing through it as easily as you think. ;-) Next time you haunt Florida, humor us with a springs trip, we'll watch you swim. Afterwards, we gotta try "Bubba" freediving, no fins, before diving to avoid getting bent. Curtis > >> But, can you do it now? And, my last one was not lapping in a pool, > >> it [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Curtis > >> But, can you do it now? And, my last one was not lapping in a pool, > >> it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Next time you haunt Florida, humor us with a springs trip, we'll watch > you swim. I'll get myself out that way someday. A cavern class is certainly in my future, maybe more, and I'd certainly like to outswim those fat manatees if nothing else. I've been swimming since I was a baby, since my momma couldn't afford water wings, and I spent practically 50% of the time between ages 9-14 in either pool or ocean water, before I went on to discover drinkin', drugs, and women. I never competed nor timed myself back then but I did once race a girl my age who was an Olympic hopeful and kicked her butt on a lake swim that had to have been over 800 yards. Obviously that was back then, my "glory days", but I still have a nice YMCA-refined stroke and I could easily work up the stamina to going the full 400 yards full blast and you'd be hard-pressed keeping up with me in fins. What I refuse to do, after whupping your a.s at the swim challenge, is take you on at brick breaking. But if you're up for any sort of alcoholic-beverage-imbibing challenge instead, and this goes for all other rec.scubans since we're in need of good challenges nowadays, I'll hand you your hat mightily, then eat your dinner. The gauntlet is down. > Afterwards, we gotta try "Bubba" freediving, no fins, before diving to > avoid getting bent. Yeah, right. Freediving to me is when I can cajole the LDS owner out of a free air fill. Man was not meant to swim under the waves without an air source. Anything less is hardly DIR and my freediving with you would break the big rule. > I'd certainly like to outswim those fat manatees if nothing else. That's not going to happen. > Next time you haunt Florida, humor us with a springs trip, we'll watch > you swim. Sounds like an interesting challenge... May I propose the following: 1. Ya'll start at where Blue Springs joins with the St. John river. 2. No fins, no wetsuit, no weight belt, no tanks -- goggles / masks are allowed. 3. You must swim to Cork Rock and back. A diver will be stationed at Cork Rock to ensure that the participants complete the entire distance. 4. Walking along the bottom is not allowed. 5. Catching a ride on a manatee is also not allowed. > Sounds like an interesting challenge... May I propose the following: > 1. Ya'll start at where Blue Springs joins with the St. John river. > 2. No fins, no wetsuit, no weight belt, no tanks -- goggles / masks [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 4. Walking along the bottom is not allowed. > 5. Catching a ride on a manatee is also not allowed. Used to do much of this just for fun. I have never been able to freedive to cork rock, but I have spent some time looking around where the vertical shaft starts off to the side, roughly 45 feet at the time. Lee > Afterwards, we gotta try "Bubba" freediving, no fins, before diving to > avoid getting bent. Florida Bubba diving is done from a rope swing. They took the one that used to be in Blue Springs down years ago. If you can't swing out, do a back flip and land in the water without spilling your beer or getting water in it, you're aren't good enough for the bubba team. Lee <snip> > > In high school, 500 yards was about a 9 minute process for me. I wasn't very fast then, and I've > > slowed down considerably in the interim, but I don't think it'd be much of a problem. Especially if [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 8 minutes should be a easy sustainable pace. Having big "flipper" > feet, I've always been much faster at the crawl than the breast. I'm faster at the crawl, but my endurance in the crawl sucks. 100 yards at a time and I'm just about done. I can swim breaststroke all day long though. I figure if I alternate 50 of each I can extend my yards of crawl while still maintaining a reasonable level of endurance. > High school girls do the 400 IM in less than 5 minutes and that's four > different strokes. 400 freestyles are usually done as relays - then > times of under 4 minutes aren't unheard of. I swam the 200 IM once. I was a half length ahead of the next closest competitor after the fly portion, a length and a half behind after the back portion, a half length behind after the breast portion, and basically even after the free. I'd have been pretty awesome if I could ever have learned how to swim backwards. Instead, I just stuck with the breast and fly. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > about done. I can swim breaststroke all day long though. I figure if I alternate 50 of each I can > extend my yards of crawl while still maintaining a reasonable level of endurance. Well, I swam it yesterday (albeit in a pool). 400 yards in just over 9 minutes alternating breaststroke and freestyle (mostly breaststroke though). It'd take a bit longer with a current, but I would be able to do it with no more than a modicum of preparation. > > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Well, I swam it yesterday (albeit in a pool). 400 yards in just over 9 minutes alternating > breaststroke and freestyle (mostly breaststroke though). It'd take a bit longer with a current, but but current runs unidirectionally. It helps on the way back as much as it hurts on the way there. It shouldn't affect your overall time. Now 400 yards underwater on a breath-hold would be a real challenge. When I start my own tech training agency, that's what I'm gonna require. > > > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > but current runs unidirectionally. It helps on the way back as much > as it hurts on the way there. It shouldn't affect your overall time. Unless the entire thing is against the current or if the current is running pernpendicular to the swim path. The first time I swam the mile in Boy Scouts it was at a summer camp in Oklahoma. We swam it in the river in a square around the roped off swimming area. 1/4 with the current, 1/4 against the current, and 1/2 with the current at a 90 degree angle to our path. The cross current was deceptively difficult. > Now 400 yards underwater on a breath-hold would be a real challenge. > When I start my own tech training agency, that's what I'm gonna > require. The best I ever did was 50 yards. My coach was NOT happy that I finished it without breathing. I don't know why... he told us to swim as far as we could underwater. > The first time I swam the mile in Boy Scouts it was at a summer camp in Oklahoma. We swam it in the > river in a square around the roped off swimming area. 1/4 with the current, 1/4 against the > current, and 1/2 with the current at a 90 degree angle to our path. The cross current was > deceptively difficult. D = Distance V = Velocity relative to the medium in which you travel C = Velocity of the medium relative Twc = Time to complete the distance while with the current Tac = Time to complete the distance while against the current Tnc = Time to complete the distance without any current T1 = Total Time with a current T2 = Total Time without a current Twc = D / (V + C) Tac = D / (V - C) Tnc = D / V T1 = Twc + Tac T1 = D/(V+C) + D/(V-C) T1 = (D*(V-C) + D*(V+C)) / ((V+C)*(V-C)) T1 = (DV - DC + DV + DC) / (V^2 - VC + VC - C^2) T1 = 2*DV / (V^2 - C^2) As you can see from this, as C approaches V, you get into a divide by zero condition. As C gets very close to V, it results in T1 getting very large... Without a current, T2 = 2 * Tnc T2 = 2 * (D / V) T2 = 2 * D/V Obviously, if you have V = C, you result in an infinite time to complete the task since you would be gaining no headway on the leg against the current whereas you would be doubling your speed on the leg with the current... There's no reason to try any values where C > V since that would result in you going backwards on the leg against the current... So, let's try a 1 kt current with a 4 kt swim speed for a 1 nm distance... This results in: T1 = Twc + Tac T1 = D / (V+C) + D / (V-C) T1 = 1 / (4 + 1) + 1 / (4 - 1) T1 = 1 / 5 + 1 / 3 T1 = (3 + 5) / 15 T1 = 8/15 hrs T2 = 2 * Tnc T2 = 2 * D / V T2 = 2 * 1 / 4 T2 = 2 / 4 T2 = 1 / 2 = 8 / 16 8/16 is less than 8/15, thus it takes less time when you don't have a current... > > The first time I swam the mile in Boy Scouts it was at a summer camp in Oklahoma. We swam it in the > > river in a square around the roped off swimming area. 1/4 with the current, 1/4 against the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > 8/16 is less than 8/15, thus it takes less time when you don't have a > current... I guess when you say 1 nm you're talking about a nautical mile instead of a nanometer. It makes the calculations make a lot more sense. > I guess when you say 1 nm you're talking about a nautical mile instead of a nanometer. > > It makes the calculations make a lot more sense. Use whatever units you want, just be consistant in their use... For aviation and boating, we tend to use nautical miles and knots... We could have just as easily made the measurements in furlongs for distance and fortnights for time with the associated velocities in furlongs per fortnight... 8 furlongs = 1 mile = 5280 ft 1 furlong = 660 ft 1 fortnight = 14 day = 336 hours So, let's assume that we have current of 3000 furlongs per fortnight and you can swim 12000 furlongs per fortnight... > but current runs unidirectionally. It helps on the way back as much > as it hurts on the way there. It shouldn't affect your overall time. Nope... Doesn't work that way... The amount of time you save by going down current does not equal the amount of time extra you spend going up current... On Apr 3, 7:07 pm, Grumman-581 <grumman...@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM-gmail.com> wrote: > > but current runs unidirectionally. It helps on the way back as much > > as it hurts on the way there. It shouldn't affect your overall time. > > Nope... Doesn't work that way... The amount of time you save by going > down current does not equal the amount of time extra you spend going > up current... You sound like there's some salmon in yer family tree JF > You sound like there's some salmon in yer family tree Nope... It's just that as a pilot, we have to deal with headwinds and tailwinds and it's the same principle.. Of course, as my luck would have it, I'm more likely to get headwinds on both legs of the trip... >>You sound like there's some salmon in yer family tree > > Nope... It's just that as a pilot, we have to deal with headwinds and > tailwinds and it's the same principle.. Of course, as my luck would > have it, I'm more likely to get headwinds on both legs of the trip... It's like the headwinds push you forward when recombine at the tail ;-) Matthias > Now 400 yards underwater on a breath-hold would be a real challenge. > When I start my own tech training agency, that's what I'm gonna > require.- Jeez! I doubt even GI could pass that test JF >> Drift divers tow a flag to mark their position. Most divers carry a >> "safety sausage", a rolled-up, inflatable signal device. There are many [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'll be on the beach before the helicopter launches if that happens, and > the Captain won't need a strobe for me to find him. Depends on the location and the type of diving being conducted. On my annual spearfishing trips to the Tortugas, divers are dropped in groups of 2 to 6 divers, often in current. Our safety sausages, flags or other visible signaling devices are how we get found and picked up. It's part of the plan. Last year, my buddy and I got separated. As it turned out, we got widely separated thanks to irregular and inconsistent currents. I, with my somewhat large Halcyon safety sausage, was found quickly. Then the search for my buddy started. He had one of the small green sausages which. It took longer than I like to locate him, long enough that I called other divers to the upper deck to help in the search. We found him, but just barely. Those small green sausages look good in the store, but aren't worth a damn in conditions they are sold to cope with. My buddy got the largest sausage Halcyon makes, about 6 feet long and 6 inches in diameter, for Christmas that year. It wasn't cheap, over $100, actually, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat to avoid the stress I experienced that one day when I realized that I might have to tell my buddy's wife I'd come home without him. Waste of father's money? I don't think so. Two or three years ago, on the same dive trip, we had seas in excess of 6 feet, waves that periodically concealed even my large safety sausage from view by the boat. Being well out of sight or land, having no idea which direction the nearest land might be and knowing that the chances of swimming there even if I did know were somewhere between slim and none, gave me a reason to consider my safety options. I added a strobe to my spearfishing equipment immediately after that trip. While I agree that a safety sausage or strobe is not a critical piece of equipment when diving near shore waters in S. Florida, even there, it can be nice to have. Any of us can swim to shore if we have to, but, personally, I'd rather ride on the boat the brought me out. Having said that, I don't make a point of carrying a strobe or sausage when diving within swimming distance of shore. If it happens to be in the pocket attached to my plate, it goes with me. If it's not, it doesn't. Either way, I'll survive. When conditions are otherwise and self rescue is not an option, equipment choices are, and should be different. There is no single configuration for all divers, in all conditions. Lee > Depends on the location and the type of diving being conducted. Very true, those were check-out dives, the shallow reef. All my night diving off Boynton has been in similiar. > On my annual spearfishing trips to the Tortugas, divers are dropped in > groups of 2 to 6 divers, often in current. Our safety sausages, flags or > other visible signaling devices are how we get found and picked up. It's > part of the plan. There, I'd want the six foot monster sausage, along with a mirror. Curtis >> Depends on the location and the type of diving being conducted. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Curtis http://www.apvalves.com/uk/products/smb/smbci/ Now available in original red, HiViz red and yellow or the all-yellow. On Mar 31, 1:23 am, nos...@all.please.net wrote: > >> Depends on the location and the type of diving being conducted. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Screw 3-6 ft. How about 25 feet. :-) http://www.landfallnavigation.com/srsl1.html > On Mar 31, 1:23 am, nos...@all.please.net wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > http://www.landfallnavigation.com/srsl1.html I like the 6' inflatable ones. They can even double as a small lift bag, as I discovered. Just couldn't leave that Delta anchor there, and wouldn't have been able to return.... Dan >On Mar 31, 1:23 am, nos...@all.please.net wrote: >> http://www.apvalves.com/uk/products/smb/smbci/ [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >http://www.landfallnavigation.com/srsl1.html All well and good, but it's designed for a different purpose. The rescue streamer greatly improves your findability by aircraft. The safety sausage greatly improves your findability by boat.  SignatureRon (user ron in domain spamblocked.com) > >On Mar 31, 1:23 am, nos...@all.please.net wrote: > >>http://www.apvalves.com/uk/products/smb/smbci/ [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > (user ron > in domain spamblocked.com) Not really. Unless you are on a very small boat the people looking for you will be looking down from as much as 10-12 feet height of eyes, or more, and that combined with wave action effecting both the relative height of the boat and person in the water along with the large size of the streamer makes the streamer a very effective personal locator. And if you really get lost from the boat, the next people looking for you, most likey will be in an aircraft. > There, I'd want the six foot monster sausage, along with a mirror. A mirror's a good idea too. I may add a small one to my equipment. Maybe one of those mini CDs. A full sized one won't fit in the weight pouches on my harness. For a while, I tried submersible flares. After carrying them for a while, I decided it was time to replace them. I decided to shoot them off here in town for some celebration or another. None of them worked anymore. So much for that idea. The captain of the boat recommended a Dive Alert. Sounded good, so I bought one. Note that none of this stuff is particularly bulky or makes the dive significantly more complex. The Dive Alert certainly is loud for the diver using it. I should not have been surprised that neither the captain of the boat or anyone aboard heard a think. OK, they were not really close, but that was kind of the idea of the thing, to be heard when they weren't really close. Anyone want to buy a Dive Alert? Lee >> There, I'd want the six foot monster sausage, along with a mirror. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Lee Have you devised anything better? > Have you devised anything better? Use a kayak as a surface marker buoy? If they don't find you, at least you've got an easier way back to shore... <grin> >The captain of the boat recommended a Dive Alert. Sounded good, so I bought >one. Note that none of this stuff is particularly bulky or makes the dive [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Anyone want to buy a Dive Alert? I compared a Dive Alert to a Storm Whistle (the loudest lung powered whistle you can buy). There's no question the Dive Alert is significantly louder. Neither one is magic, though. They simply improve your odds. Note that it still pays to carry the Storm Whistle, even if you have the Dive Alert. The whistle works even if you've used up all the air in your tank. SignatureRon (user ron in domain spamblocked.com) >>The captain of the boat recommended a Dive Alert. Sounded good, so I >>bought [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > you have the Dive Alert. The whistle works even if you've > used up all the air in your tank. You don't have to convince me. I used a Storm Whistle before I tried a Dive Alert. In addition to working when there's no gas in your tank, the Storm Whistle has other advantages: 1. It's a lower pitched tone, actually a changing pitch tone. A lot of people who experience hearing loss for various reasons, experience it first and most in the high registers. Louder is not the only factor in being heard. 2. Obviously, the Storm Whistle is a lot cheaper than a Dive Alert. 3. A Storm Whistle works underwater. It's not a bad way to get a buddy's attention. The Dive Alert doesn't work underwater. There is a similar device, called a Hammerhead, I believe, that works underwater, but it's not as loud on the surface. Lee > You don't have to convince me. I used a Storm Whistle before I tried a Dive > Alert. In addition to working when there's no gas in your tank, the Storm [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > device, called a Hammerhead, I believe, that works underwater, but it's not > as loud on the surface. There's also almost no chance of a storm whistle failure causing your BC not to work right. Signatureþ theron tlåx þ (compose-mail (concat "thorne@" (rot13 "gvzoeny") ".net")) > There's also almost no chance of a storm whistle failure causing your > BC not to work right. Now there's something I had not thought about. As it happens, there's almost no way a Dive Alert can as my gear will be configured for this year's spearfishing trip. I've added a low pressure inflator hose specifically for inflating my rather large Halcyon safety sausage, much like you might do for a drysuit. It's just too much hassle to disconnect my inflator hose to inflate the sausage and then reconnect it at the end of each dive and, during that trip, the sausage is used at the end of each dive. Attaching the Dive Alert to the extra inflator hose not only ensures it does not interfere with the BCD inflation process, it also makes it a bit easier to ensure the Dive Alert/extra hose stays where it's easy to access when you want it. Lee > You don't have to convince me. I used a Storm Whistle before I tried a Dive > Alert. In addition to working when there's no gas in your tank, the Storm [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > device, called a Hammerhead, I believe, that works underwater, but it's not > as loud on the surface. Plus, and this is very important the Storm Whistle does not make a loud noise right beside your ear. > Plus, and this is very important the Storm Whistle does not make a loud > noise right beside your ear. Huh? I can't hear you. I've damaged my hearing by letting them be exposed to loud noises. Lee >>The captain of the boat recommended a Dive Alert. Sounded good, so I >>bought [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > you have the Dive Alert. The whistle works even if you've > used up all the air in your tank. Yep, there's no one-size-fits-all. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. > Yep, there's no one-size-fits-all. > > Each has its advantages and disadvantages. As you know (this is for the room), the most valuable skill/piece-of-equipment is knowing when to thumb the dive in the parking lot. I could drop a couple names of divers who didnt have this gear/skill, but they cant answer because they are either dead or seriously f.cked up, and it would be tacky to do so. > > Yep, there's no one-size-fits-all. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > they cant answer because they are either dead or seriously f.cked up, and it > would be tacky to do so. Scott, Did you get my last Email? > Scott, Did you get my last Email? Negative. I almost got hold of Iggy, we have been playing phone tag. I owe you. > > Scott, Did you get my last Email? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I owe you. No sweat. I'll remail it. > > Depends on the location and the type of diving being conducted. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Curtis Or at least one of these if not the raft. http://www.halcyon.net/mc/shuttle.shtml > >> Drift divers tow a flag to mark their position. Most divers carry a > >> "safety sausage", a rolled-up, inflatable signal device. There are many [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > realized that I might have to tell my buddy's wife I'd come home without > him. Waste of father's money? I don't think so. tnx for the thread.... found some of the info after I had posted, and looked around a bit more... I have a diver friend in Atlanta that wanted to invent a safety device in case you get entangled (and sep from your buddy). His idea was to have some kind of small gas cartridge that would fire and inflate a help balloon/sausage with an attached line to make it to the surface. Wonder if anything like that is around ? > tnx for the thread.... > found some of the info after I had posted, and looked around a bit more... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > surface. > Wonder if anything like that is around ? Buddy makes a self inflating (carries its own gas supply) DSMB (delayed surface marker buoy meaning it's intended to be deployed after the dive starts, usually just before it ends). You don't see them in the US much, but if all I've read is an indication, they're pretty popular in the UK. As I understand it, there's also a convention there that a yellow one means assistance is needed. There used to be a lot of devices inflated by CO2 cartridges that could be fired and released toward the surface. They're not all that common any more, but there are probably a few still made. There's a host of devices that you inflate from your low pressure inflator hose that can be released and sent to the surface. Since it takes very little gas from the bottom, to ensure a marker is filled when it reaches the surface (the good ones have overpressure valves) CO2 powered ones haven't done as well as you might expect. The biggest problem with an emergency beacon device is that there is not convention in the US for what markers indicate an emergency or, for that matter, what kind of emergency it is. Another problem, is that, for an emergency buoy to be effective, there has to be someone right where it surfaces, when it surfaces. In drift diving and in some emergencies, that's not the case. Lee > hi - > Our older son is with a group that has just started their OW cert class. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > #1 - underwater alarm for when your PSI/time/capacity on your gauge > has reached a pre-set threshold ? A "J" valve. > #2 - what happens when you surface, you have drifted far away, > and the boat is at some distance. > Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? An "EPIRB". > #3 is there any kind of regulator that directs the bubbles away from your > face ? A Rebreather. > tnx - learning as we go... Keep up the good work. >Underwater alarm for when your PSI/time/capacity on your gauge has reached >a pre-set threshold ? Yes. Most air integrated computers do something like this. > #2 - what happens when you surface, you have drifted far away, and the > boat is at some distance. > Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? There are various signaling devices, none of which are particularly good and even a personal locating beacon. > #3 is there any kind of regulator that directs the bubbles away from your > face ? All of them do, some more than others. Lee > hi - > Our older son is with a group that has just started their OW cert class. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and the boat is at some distance. > Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? Yes, it's called a Dive Alert. > #3 is there any kind of regulator that directs the bubbles away from your face ? Dacor Viper Metal and a few others > tnx - learning as we go... On Mar 28, 4:21 pm, "P.Schuman" <pschuman_NO_SPAM...@interserv.com> wrote: > hi - > Our older son is with a group that has just started their OW cert class. > I went around to some of the local shops to see the equipment, etc. > A couple of things popped into my head... wonder if they have been invented ? > #2 - what happens when you surface, you have drifted far away, > and the boat is at some distance. > Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? For audio, it's hard to beat a Storm Whistle. Of course you have to be close enough and upwind from the boat. For visual, there are safety sausages and the remarkably effective big orange garbage bag. > #1 - underwater alarm for when your PSI/time/capacity on your gauge > has reached a pre-set threshold ? We used to have such a thing... It was called a J-valve... Most people don't use them anymore... Some of us still do though... > #2 - what happens when you surface, you have drifted far away, > and the boat is at some distance. > Is there a signalling device that can be used, and attached to your BC ? You mean, something like a 12-gauge flare gun? <evil-grin> > #3 is there any kind of regulator that directs the bubbles away from your face ? Like a Navy Mk-V? Signaturehttp://grumman581.googlepages.com/welcome-rec-scuba |
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