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Scuba Forum / General / March 2007SDI Solo Diver cert
We arrived back from Bonaire yesterday. I'll post a quick trip report on .locations later. On Monday, I took the SDI Solo Diver class with Walt Stark, something I've been interested in doing for a long time. The class was pretty short, but I was mainly in it for the nifty card and appreciated it not taking up too much of my vacation downtime. Janna took the class with me, but due to a cold, couldn't clear on the cert dive. Walt offered to waive her class fee, which was a nice gesture. Lou Vallone posted a report on the class here a few years ago. It looks like he got a little more for his money but I'm still happy. I'll repost an excerpt for comparison's sake, and to save wear and tear on my fingers: > Walt Stark was the instructor. He spent some time going over my log books (I > have several hundredsolodives logged in them - I brought with me the ones > from previous Bonaire trips.) He didn't go over our logbooks, though he did ask us to bring them to class. Maybe he forgot. He did want to see some proof of advanced certification so I pulled my TDI Pass Flying cert card out of my stack of 30-or-so cards and that seemed to appease him. > We spent time discussing the reasons and circumstances appropriate forsolo > dives (he had a pre printed syllabus). We also discussed various gear > requirements for the endeavor. This "instructional" part was informal, peer > to peer dialogue more than lecture and took a couple of hours. I had > previously read (can't remember the author's name at the moment) the book > "SoloDiving" and we discussed that. We also traded horror stories about > buddy diving experiences we had each had. Same here, sort of an informal socratic style of class. No video. No text. No written exam. He brought up the legal liability that a buddy relationship can cause. Personally I think a decent lawyer could dispel any notion that an involuntary buddy assignment can create a legal duty of care, but I didn't bother haggling over the issue with him. > Two dives are required. For the first one, he became an observer for the > most part as I assembled my gear and stated my dive plan. He then followed > me through an 80 minute shore dive at La Machaca reef during which I did > basic skill things like doff and don, mask flood, etc. He would take note of > the frequency with which I checked gas supply, depth, time and so on. He > watched my general demeanor, buoyancy, trim, awareness of environment and > general comfort and handling of myself underwater. We hit a max depth of > about 75 fsw. (FYI, I dove 32% Nitrox on an air computer.) This is where the class seemed to differ. I did two dives too, but only one with Walt. Max 64' for only 47 minutes. This dive included most of the stuff that Lou mentions below, but no other exercises. No mask clearing or doff/don. Awareness of environment was tested by his asking about the direction of the current. He was observing me the whole time though. Spent about 5 minutes trying to get Janna to clear, then ascended to send her swimming back to shore. Redescended and did a swim back and forth along the reef for 20 minutes at 60' in order to get pressure readings to calculate SAC rate. > During the surface interval, we talked about some of things we saw on the > dive and had just general conversation that two divers would have about a > dive. > > For the second dive, he outlined before we entered the water what I would > have to demonstrate as the skills for thesolodive cert: After the 20 minutes were up, we returned to our starting point and did the solo skills. > 1. Simulate an out of gas situation at 60 fsw by removing my primary > regulator from my mouth. > > 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this > dive was a 3 cu f Spare Air. I used a 30 cf pony, a bit more realistic. We did discuss how worthless SpareAir can be in a real OOA situation. > 3. Ascend to the surface at a rate no faster than 60 feet per minute (no > safety stop planned). Walt stressed having enough redundant air for a safety stop, and we ascended to 15' and did a 5-minute stop on the pony before switching back to the primary. > 4. At the surface, orally inflate my BC. > > 5. Orally inflate and wave my surface signaling device: an 3' orange > sausage. > > 6. Activate my audible surface signaling device: a whistle. We swam underwater back to the dock before ascending in 4' of water (i.e. standing up). He didn't have me orally inflate my BC, but I did try to inflate my sausage. Turns out the valve had frozen shut since the last time I used it. I ended up pulling out the valve to blow it up. I volunteered that the experience would teach me to check my safety gear in the future. He gave me "points" for at least being creative enough to pull out the valve. He didn't require me to make any audible signals, maybe because I didn't have an audible signaller other than my loud scream, but we did discuss various signalling devices in the class. > 7. Take a heading with my compass to ascertain my shore exit point. > 8. Surface swim to the exit point - which I choose to do on my back instead > of with a snorkel. Exit the water and disassemble and store the gear. He did test my use of a compass before our dive, having me run a reciprocal course for 20 kicks in each direction. > After we exited, we discussed my level of comfort with the exercises. He > gave his opinion of how well I executed them and he declared that I had > passed the course. He provided me with some waiver forms fromSDIthat I can > give to operations if they wish to have them on file if I divesolowith > them. After we exited and doffed our gear, he assessed me as being comfortable in the water and did a remarkable job of calculating my SAC in his head in a couple seconds. Then he had me do dive two as my final exam: come back from a solo dive alive and I pass the course. We discussed my dive plan, had me figure out how much air I should use during the dive, and away I went. I kept it short since Janna was waiting patiently, 27 min total, half at 80' and half at 40' I switched to the pony and breathed off it for a bit, then switched back and made my ascent. Walt greeted me from the top of the stairs to confirm I was alive, then we reconvened for a short while back in the classroom after I had doffed and rinsed my gear. He had the SAC calculations on the chalkboard, we reviewed them, talked a bit about the class, and he offered to send me a PDF of the waiver. A nice guy. I wouldn't mind taking a tech class from him in the future. (SAC was only .56 CFM, but we were heading against a little current for half the 20-min swim and I was admittedly a bit nervous knowing that he was observing my every move.) >We arrived back from Bonaire yesterday. I'll post a quick trip report >on .locations later. Cool! Thanks Greg! Now I know what to expect. Shouldn't be an issue once i get the logged dives. ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold Visit my Travel Photo Website: http://www.mag3.biz/travel_photos/home_page.html Absolutely 100% SPAM free!!!! HONEST!!! :-) > (SAC was only .56 CFM, but we were heading against a little current > for half the 20-min swim and I was admittedly a bit nervous knowing > that he was observing my every move.) Interesting. My normal SAC is quite a bit lower than that. I imagine yours is too. On the other hand, I generally use .5 CFM for planning purposes. Doing so provides a bit of a buffer to help ensure I get to the surface safely even if there's a bit of a problem. Thanks for the report. One of these days, I'm going to find a way to get one of those cards myself. Like you, I've been doing solo dives for years. It would be nice to have a card to "legitimize" them. Lee >> (SAC was only .56 CFM, but we were heading against a little current >> for half the 20-min swim and I was admittedly a bit nervous knowing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > one of those cards myself. Like you, I've been doing solo dives for > years. It would be nice to have a card to "legitimize" them. What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone from commercial dive boats? >"Lee Bell" <pl.......l@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >> Thanks for the report. One of these days, I'm going to find a way to get >> one of those cards myself. Like you, I've been doing solo dives for >> years. It would be nice to have a card to "legitimize" them. > >What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone >from commercial dive boats? In my case, it would allow me to dive solo at my local dive quarry, as long as I filled out the appropriate paperwork, and rented a transponder each day from the quarry office. ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold Visit my Travel Photo Website: http://www.mag3.biz/travel_photos/home_page.html Absolutely 100% SPAM free!!!! HONEST!!! :-) >>"Lee Bell" <pl.......l@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > from the > quarry office. Cool just wondering. I've got no real desire to dive solo and only do it when I want a feed or doing something around the boats ( cleaning or retrieving peoples lost gear ) so I was interested in what the solo ticket was good for, Thanks >What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone >from commercial dive boats? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It does increase the odds. Fact is, those of us who are likely to dive solo are likely to do it with or without a card. Just because you enter and exit the water more or less together does not mean you do the entire dive together. Those that know they are ready to dive solo usually, but not always, are. Those that believe they need a course to be ready, usually aren't, before or after the course. > In my case, it would allow me to dive solo at my local dive quarry, as > long as I > filled out the appropriate paperwork, and rented a transponder each day > from the > quarry office. Seems kind of silly to me. What's the transponder for? It would seem easier to me to require everyone to sign in and sign out. Anyone that fails to sign out is presumed to be on the bottom somewhere. The next day, everyone pays a little extra to join in the treasure hunt. Lightly used equipment being the prize. Lee >>What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone >>from commercial dive boats? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Just because you enter and exit the water more or less together does not >mean you do the entire dive together. If you were caught doing so at my quarry, you'd be escorted off the premesis, never to return again. They do have spotters on the bluff watching, and ocaisionally, in boats on the water. Can they see everything everywhere? Not likely, but woe be unto them they do see and catch. Furthermore, many instructors and DMs holding classes there act as "deputy employees" while underwater (which, in turn, gives them free diving priviliges). >> In my case, it would allow me to dive solo at my local dive quarry, as >> long as I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Seems kind of silly to me. What's the transponder for? >It would seem easier to me to require everyone to sign in and sign out. They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). >Anyone that fails to sign out is presumed to be on the bottom somewhere. >The next day, everyone pays a little extra to join in the treasure hunt. Liability concerns would not permit them to wait that long. Operations in this part of the country seem a good deal more "litigation conscious" than other parts. ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold Visit my Travel Photo Website: http://www.mag3.biz/travel_photos/home_page.html Absolutely 100% SPAM free!!!! HONEST!!! :-) > If you were caught doing so at my quarry, you'd be escorted off the premesis, never > to return again. They do have spotters on the bluff watching, and ocaisionally, in boats > on the water. Can they see everything everywhere? Not likely, but woe be unto them > they do see and catch. Furthermore, many instructors and DMs holding classes there act > as "deputy employees" while underwater (which, in turn, gives them free diving priviliges). Arnold, its safe to say "Dutch Springs, PA", "Dutch Springs, PA", "Dutch Springs, PA", "Dutch Springs, PA", since they are quite clear & unapologetic about their policy. > >Seems kind of silly to me. What's the transponder for? > >It would seem easier to me to require everyone to sign in and sign out. > > They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving > at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). Either that, or they want to extract a Transponder Rental Fee out of you :-) > >Anyone that fails to sign out is presumed to be on the bottom somewhere. > >The next day, everyone pays a little extra to join in the treasure hunt. > > Liability concerns would not permit them to wait that long. It wouldn't be if they were more "at your own risk" and less Nanny- like. > Operations in this > part of the country seem a good deal more "litigation conscious" than other parts. Ironically, Dutch Springs used to be much more lassie fare; I can recall being at Dutch years ago and going cliff diving there during our Surface Intervals between dives. I don't recall how tall that cliff was, but I remember it being "damn!" high and was one of those that you took a second breath on the way down; my guess would be 30+ ft. -hh >> If you were caught doing so at my quarry, you'd be escorted off the premesis, never >> to return again. They do have spotters on the bluff watching, and ocaisionally, in boats [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >"Dutch Springs, PA", "Dutch Springs, PA", since they are quite clear & >unapologetic about their policy. :-)))) You and I (and Al, and Art, and even Popeye) know that, but I'm not sure how many others here know of it. That's why I speak of it "3rd person" I guess. >> >Seems kind of silly to me. What's the transponder for? >> >It would seem easier to me to require everyone to sign in and sign out. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Either that, or they want to extract a Transponder Rental Fee out of >you :-) Well, that too. Mostly that I think. I'll bet if I were to buy one to avoid the fees, they wouldn't accept it - "You *must* use ours!" (not that I would buy one.... no way it's worth it).... >> Operations in this >> part of the country seem a good deal more "litigation conscious" than other parts. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >that you took a second breath on the way down; my guess would be 30+ >ft. Me thinks their Insurers may have tightened them up quite a bit........ ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold Visit my Travel Photo Website: http://www.mag3.biz/travel_photos/home_page.html Absolutely 100% SPAM free!!!! HONEST!!! :-) <snip> > Ironically, Dutch Springs used to be much more lassie fare; Is that a fee paid to play with a dog... specifically a collie? >>>What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone >>>from commercial dive boats? >>Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It does increase the odds. Fact is, those >>of >>us who are likely to dive solo are likely to do it with or without a card. >>Just because you enter and exit the water more or less together does not >>mean you do the entire dive together. > If you were caught doing so at my quarry, you'd be escorted off the > premesis, never > to return again. If I were to be caught diving in any quarry, someone should check to see what's happened to my mind. There's a reason why I live in Florida and diving in cold, dark quarries is not part of it. Should I decide otherwise, there's always 40 Fathom Grotto or, for that matter, the rockpit behind my house we call a lake. Let me know when you're down and I'll let you solo dive in it to your heart's content. You either live free, making your own choices, or you bow to the will of those who would make them for you. I choose to live free. I always have. If that means I can't dive in their quarry, so be it. They're not welcome in my lake either. > They do have spotters on the bluff watching, and ocaisionally, in boats > on the water. Can they see everything everywhere? Not likely, but woe be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > as "deputy employees" while underwater (which, in turn, gives them free > diving priviliges). These are the people you choose, even pay to dive with? You can do better, much better. The people diving in this quarry of yours have nobody to blame but themselves. Those that operate the quarry depend on your money for the survival of their business. You, and others like you, have the power to effect change, if you care enough to do so. > They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving > at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). Seems even sillier. So, if you're still long enough to get their attention, they presume you've drowned and come to get the body? For this, you pay a fee? No wonder you're coming down to dive with us Floridians. >>Anyone that fails to sign out is presumed to be on the bottom somewhere. >>The next day, everyone pays a little extra to join in the treasure hunt. > Liability concerns would not permit them to wait that long. Operations in > this > part of the country seem a good deal more "litigation conscious" than > other parts. Dead is dead. In fact, dead is better, from a purely financial liability standpoint than permanently injured. They should wait the day. In all seriousness, the rules at your quarry are too restrictive for my taste. At best, I'd dive with them once. More likely I'd insist on a refund, walk away and anyone who would listen against doing business with them. I'm not particularly friendly with those who think they control my life, or my diving, or even want to. There are better ways and better places to dive and, thanks to years of hard work and a bit of luck, I can afford to dive them. Lee >You either live free, making your own choices, or you bow to the will of >those who would make them for you. I choose to live free. I always have. >If that means I can't dive in their quarry, so be it. They're not welcome >in my lake either. Fair enough... I can live with their polices for now. >> They do have spotters on the bluff watching, and ocaisionally, in boats >> on the water. Can they see everything everywhere? Not likely, but woe be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >These are the people you choose, even pay to dive with? You can do better, >much better. Not really. Not any that are as convenient as this place. Less than 1hr from my residence - lots of artifical wrecks, guide ropes to get to them, other things. And it *is* where all the LDS's do their training in this area. If I wanted to take any classes at an LDS, the checkouts would almost likely be there (except for any "ocean" boat dives off the NJ shore)... >The people diving in this quarry of yours have nobody to blame but >themselves. Those that operate the quarry depend on your money for the >survival of their business. You, and others like you, have the power to >effect change, if you care enough to do so. More complicated than it seems in this case. As stated, most of the LDS's in this area do their training there. So you'd have to effect the change through them as well, and I'm sure that Dutch has cut their own sweetheart deals with them.... >> They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving >> at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). > >Seems even sillier. So, if you're still long enough to get their attention, >they presume you've drowned and come to get the body? For this, you pay a >fee? No wonder you're coming down to dive with us Floridians. I'll dive anywhere I can. The more diverse the ops, the better. I learn more that way. I think if one were not to move sufficiently, they'd send a DM or an instructor out to look for them, or they'd take out a boat or something. >>>Anyone that fails to sign out is presumed to be on the bottom somewhere. >>>The next day, everyone pays a little extra to join in the treasure hunt. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Dead is dead. In fact, dead is better, from a purely financial liability >standpoint than permanently injured. They should wait the day. The big question is their insurers. What would they require? >In all seriousness, the rules at your quarry are too restrictive for my >taste. At best, I'd dive with them once. More likely I'd insist on a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >places to dive and, thanks to years of hard work and a bit of luck, I can >afford to dive them. Understood. Like I said, I can live with their rules for now. Perhaps when I get to the point where I have enough dives that I don't need a facility like that, I might not choose them as readily (or if I ever move down your way etc.). ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold >>You either live free, making your own choices, or you bow to the will of >>those who would make them for you. I choose to live free. I always have. [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > >Arnold I guess they would flip out if you tried to use a rebreather, they wouldn't have bubbles to watch. By the way Bainbridge shouldn't be that far away. >>Understood. Like I said, I can live with their rules for now. Perhaps when I get >>to the point where I have enough dives that I don't need a facility like that, I >>might not choose them as readily (or if I ever move down your way etc.). >I guess they would flip out if you tried to use a rebreather, they >wouldn't have bubbles to watch. >By the way Bainbridge shouldn't be that far away. No, actually that would be just fine - as long as you were diving with a buddy. :-) ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold Visit my Travel Photo Website: http://www.mag3.biz/travel_photos/home_page.html Absolutely 100% SPAM free!!!! HONEST!!! :-) <chop> I think of Dutch springs as a good place for basic (through AOW, perhaps Advanced Nitrox if we can find water deep enough) training and a safe environment for new equipment checkouts. Other than that...it's water over silt and mud, mostly...pretty boring. To me, it's worth driving farther for better diving. Moreover, I've had more than enough of being forcefully (vs. politely) told every time I start unloading the car at the peninsula that I'd better move it immediately after unloading. It's just rude to treat paying customers that way. John Eells > If I were to be caught diving in any quarry, someone should check to see > what's happened to my mind. There's a reason why I live in Florida and > diving in cold, dark quarries is not part of it. Should I decide otherwise, > there's always 40 Fathom Grotto or, for that matter, the rockpit behind my > house we call a lake. Let me know when you're down and I'll let you solo > dive in it to your heart's content. How deep is that lake behind your house... The water seemed quite a bit clearer than most Texas lakes... >> If I were to be caught diving in any quarry, someone should check to see >> what's happened to my mind. There's a reason why I live in Florida and >> diving in cold, dark quarries is not part of it. Should I decide >> otherwise, there's always 40 Fathom Grotto or, for that matter, the >> rockpit behind my house we call a lake. Let me know when you're down and >> I'll let you solo dive in it to your heart's content. > How deep is that lake behind your house... The water seemed quite a bit > clearer than most Texas lakes... I don't know. It's 30 or 40 feet directly behind my house. It may be deeper elsewhere. Next time you're down/over, you can explore it. Lee > I don't know. It's 30 or 40 feet directly behind my house. It may be > deeper elsewhere. Next time you're down/over, you can explore it. I wish the lake behind my house was that clear... >> I don't know. It's 30 or 40 feet directly behind my house. It may be >> deeper elsewhere. Next time you're down/over, you can explore it. > > I wish the lake behind my house was that clear... I wish the lake behind my house was too. That's how deep it is, not how far you can see. They kill the algae regularly, which leaves a layer of black silt on the bottom. Last time I dove in the lake I descended head first and stuck my mask in the mud before I saw it. Lee > I wish the lake behind my house was too. That's how deep it is, not how far > you can see. They kill the algae regularly, which leaves a layer of black > silt on the bottom. Last time I dove in the lake I descended head first and > stuck my mask in the mud before I saw it. Hell, that's still better visibility than most Texas lakes... I've got a couple of bodies of water within 10 minutes of my house... None of them are worth diving in... The lake behind my house is muddy and the Brazos River is somewhere between the color of my truck and a UPS truck... With all the rain that we've had lately, the Brazos would make for a rather fast drift dive though... Not that it would really matter how fast you were going when you couldn't see anything... Maybe by the time it emptied into the Gulf you might see something after it washed you a few miles offshore... Assuming you don't get caught up on some submerged logs or something between here and there... Compared to around here, the swamps in Louisiana were fuckin *clear*... > You either live free, making your own choices, or you bow to the will of > those who would make them for you. True enough. In this case, it is the decision of the property owner as to how many rules he wishes to impose on his (paying) guests. The same thing has happened in places other than PA ... in fact, I even seem to recall a cave somewhere in FL that's in a State Park that's off-limits to the public except for one small, self-selected group of WKPP'ers. > > They do have spotters on the bluff watching, and ocaisionally, in boats > > on the water. Can they see everything everywhere? Not likely, but woe be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > These are the people you choose, even pay to dive with? You can do better, > much better. For better or worse, its one of only a very few training sites, and its water conditions are about the best. Water clarity is actually better today than 20-some years ago, because it has become contaminated with zebra muscles. The catch is that this means that you need to give your dive gear a IIRC 10 minute soak in 130F water to prevent sh.t from growing inside your regulator, etc. > The people diving in this quarry of yours have nobody to blame but > themselves. Those that operate the quarry depend on your money for the > survival of their business. You, and others like you, have the power to > effect change, if you care enough to do so. They have an established business relationship with nearly all of the local diveshops, who take their OW classes there. I'd venture to guess that that's 75% of their attendence. Probably half that are left are NJ Wreck divers who will come over for a couple of dives in flat waters before taking a new rig configuration off the coast. There have been some alternatives - - there's Bainbridge, but I think they're pretty far out to the west for Arnold & NewJersians. Might be worth a look to see if Willow Springs is still in business. There also used to be diving allowed at Round Valley State Park in NJ, but that's a mudhole. > > They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving > > at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). > > Seems even sillier. So, if you're still long enough to get their attention, > they presume you've drowned and come to get the body? For this, you pay a > fee? IMO, it might be interesting to run an "oops I dropped my transponder a half hour ago" test to see how seriously they're taking their *claimed* duty of care, or if it is (as I suspect) a cash extraction policy. > No wonder you're coming down to dive with us Floridians. Because a Bad Viz day in FL still usually beats a good viz day up in a PA quarry, plus the bottom temperature's usually at least a good 20F warmer :-) > In all seriousness, the rules at your quarry are too restrictive for my > taste. But wait, there's more ... during the long form you're required to fill out to get your little sticker, one of the pieces of your information that they want is your SSN#. When I was last there (2002), the kid in the registration booth was having problems finding my SSN# on my C-Card (he should, since its not on there) and then essentially accused me of having a forged C-Card because it was absent. I told him to check the date on the Card ... and as he did, I said, "What year were you born, son?". Seemed to have cleared the whole paperwork problem right up :-) > There are better ways and better places to dive and, thanks to years > of hard work and a bit of luck, I can afford to dive them. True enough. Problem is that when it comes to freshwater pockets around these parts, most of them are utter mudholes that take a special talent to like. The few spots with clear water and access are private and they can follow "what the market will bear" capitalism. -hh >> You either live free, making your own choices, or you bow to the will of >> those who would make them for you. > True enough. In this case, it is the decision of the property owner > as to how many rules he wishes to impose on his (paying) guests. The > same thing has happened in places other than PA ... in fact, I even > seem to recall a cave somewhere in FL that's in a State Park that's > off-limits to the public except for one small, self-selected group of > WKPP'ers. It certainly was off limits and may still be. I've not followed anything relating to that spring or the group. There's another spring in Florida that is more readily accessible to those with GUE certifications than to others and all the developed spring/cave sites owned by the state require at least a cavern certification to take lights into the water. There are still a few caves and caverns that are not under such rigid control. Lucky for me, there's no shortage of fresh or salt water to dive in down here. > They have an established business relationship with nearly all of the > local diveshops, who take their OW classes there. Only so long as the divers that do business with those shops continue to support the practice. I'd venture to > guess that that's 75% of their attendence. Probably half that are > left are NJ Wreck divers who will come over for a couple of dives in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > also used to be diving allowed at Round Valley State Park in NJ, but > that's a mudhole. I don't know what's available in the area, but it didn't take much effort to find this http://www.metrojersey.com/riverslakes.htm > IMO, it might be interesting to run an "oops I dropped my transponder a > half hour ago" test to see how seriously they're taking >their *claimed* duty of care, or if it is (as I suspect) a cash extraction >policy. I must admit that the idea of stopping for 15 minutes or so to closely examine (not moving) something interesting occurred to me. If they don't come looking for a non moving diver in that time, they're going to have a hard time defending their position that it's for the diver's safety. Perhaps I was not too far off on my "gear recovery" suggestion. > But wait, there's more ... during the long form you're required to > fill out to get your little sticker, one of the pieces of your > information that they want is your SSN#. Violation. You're not required to provide your SSN to anyone other than the government and those you have financial transactions with, banks, brokers, lenders. > When I was last there (2002), the kid in the registration booth was having > problems finding my SSN# on my C-Card (he should, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > son?". Seemed to have cleared the whole paperwork > problem right up :-) I like it. > True enough. Problem is that when it comes to freshwater pockets around > these parts, most of them are utter mudholes that take > a special talent to like. I would think that quarry diving would fall into that category as well. > The few spots with clear water and access are private and they can follow > "what the market will bear" capitalism. Nothing wrong with capitalism, especially if it's used to help those providing goods and services understand who is paying and who is getting paid. Those in business to make money, only retain control of the nature of goods and services as long as the paying customers let them. Lee > Violation. You're not required to provide your SSN to anyone other than the > government and those you have financial transactions with, banks, brokers, > lenders. Yeah. My dad called the cable company to get the cable turned on (he had it turned off because he was tired of paying for it and didn't realy feel like there was anything worthwhile on cable anyway... he recently decided to give in another chance). The cable company asked for his SSN. He told them they didn't need his SSN and that he was going to pay for a year's worth of cable upfront so there was no need to run a credit check. They told him that they couldn't turn on his cable without it. As you can imagine, he was NOT happy about that. He told them where they could stick it. He still doesn't have cable. >> You either live free, making your own choices, or you bow to the will of >> those who would make them for you. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >off-limits to the public except for one small, self-selected group of >WKPP'ers. Interesting. If you go to dive the Madeira and want to use the convenient parking lot, you must stop at Split Rock Lighthouse State Park (Minnesota) and buy a permit (it's on state park property), plus you must give them your C-card number. Once you do that, they give you the code to the locked gate but they no longer have any more dealings with you. You can dive however you want to. Now at Lake Wazee, which is a county park in Wisconsin, you have to pay an extra fee to dive but they never ask for your C-card. I'm told this is to limit liability to themselves. But again, once you're in (and in Fall and Winter, nobody even mans the entry point. It's all done on the honor system), you're on your own as to how you dive. As a matter of fact, I dove it without a buddy on New Years Day. I'm guessing government entities have to worry less about liability than private landowners. >I'm guessing government entities have to worry less about liability >than private landowners. In this case, I think it's more an issue of "limited space" and the owners therefore reserving it for their "best customers" (ie. the LDS'es themselves). The Peninsula is a very small area and there's not enough space to host a full parking area, as opposed to the "student side" where there is at least space for 1 row of cars along the edge, 1st come 1st served. Parking on the "Peninsula" side is by permit only and they only give permits to the LDS's that rent their tent space etc. on it. Otherwise, you can only drive down to the Peninsula to load/unload your gear and then you have to drive back up to the nearby lot up the hill. ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold Visit my Travel Photo Website: http://www.mag3.biz/travel_photos/home_page.html Absolutely 100% SPAM free!!!! HONEST!!! :-) > I'm guessing government entities have to worry less about liability > than private landowners. Only those who, like me, are eligible for retirement. The government is so liability conscious that agencies commonly fail to do any of what they are being paid to do. Lee > They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving > at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). They'd hate me. At my local "quarry", I routinely lay on the bottom (sandy bottom) and watch the bubbles as they meander to the surface. It's not uncommon for me to stay that way until I suck my tank nearly dry. >> They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving >> at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > meander to the surface. It's not uncommon for me to stay that way until I > suck my tank nearly dry. When I had that bet going with the Sheepmeister, I'd lay on the 20' platform and read a book or nap. Usually for over 2 hours and one time for over three. >>>What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone >>>from commercial dive boats? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > unto them > they do see and catch. Woe unto -who-? <snicker> >Furthermore, many instructors and DMs holding classes there act > as "deputy employees" while underwater (which, in turn, gives them free [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>Seems kind of silly to me. What's the transponder for? >>It would seem easier to me to require everyone to sign in and sign out. The transponder is for those that sign in and don't sign out... :-) > They want to know *precisely* where you are...... and that you are moving > at least (ie. not "stationary" for any significant length of time). Ohhhhhhhhh, I could have a -frikkin- FIELD DAY with that... > What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone > from commercial dive boats? It can be a form of a "Get out of Jail Free" card, depending on how anal the diveboat is. Overall, legitimizing existing skills with an Agency's plastic card ... be it for AOW, Nitrox, Solo, etc ... is merely a means to an end: being that it is an official chunk of plastic, its job is to be what gets stuffed in the mouth of the arrogant DM (who's younger than some of your C-Cards) to tell him to f.ck off ^H^H^H^H kindly go mind his own business...elsewhere. -hh > > What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone > > from commercial dive boats? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > some of your C-Cards) to tell him to f.ck off ^H^H^H^H kindly go mind > his own business...elsewhere. Yep. I have no immediate plans to try using it, but I know the Explorer liveaboards will allow solo diving with the card and redundant air supply. Maybe that sort of thing will take off. The class provided me with a assumption of risk/liability waiver form that I can offer to a dive operation to convince them to let me solo. If they have no legal liability, what's their issue? The card, the waiver, and my use of redundant air might be enough to convince some dive ops to let me solo against their policies to the contrary, but it's not something I'd spring on them at the last minute when I show up to the boat. Janna (or a "group) is my buddy for most of my boat diving and no one usually cares if I do a solo beach dive except in the City of Laguna Beach. But the card may come in handy some day, so it's now a part of my dive log inventory. > If they have no legal liability, what's their issue? Control. Congratulations on your new card. I'm jealous. Lee >> If they have no legal liability, what's their issue? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Lee Maybe someone with some legal authority should develop a wavier for assigned buddies that removes their legal liability from each other. The conversation goes like this: "You must dive with a buddy. We will, but neither of us are responsible for the other in any legal sense according to these signed documents." > > If they have no legal liability, what's their issue? > > Control. > > Congratulations on your new card. Thanks. The hardest part about it was finding somewhere to take the class. > I'm jealous. You and everyone else. That's half the reason I bothered to get it! Actually it was nice taking a SCUBA class for a change. I haven't done that in years and it was a good warm-up to my tech class coming up in June which I imagine will be a bit more intense. >> I'm jealous. > You and everyone else. That's half the reason I bothered to get it! Then I'll have to disappoint you with your claim to "everyone else". I refuse to dive with you when you're using that cert. > >> I'm jealous. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I refuse to dive with you when you're using that cert. Bob? Laugh of the day candidate? > Bob? > > Laugh of the day candidate? At least two people reading for comprehension. >>> I'm jealous. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I refuse to dive with you when you're using that cert. If you were diving with him... He wouldn't be using it... :-) > What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone > from commercial dive boats? On the DWG-II trip to S. Florida, the LDS we went with for the trip to the Spiegel Grove had a space on the waiver form for your partner's name... I either put Davey Jones or Charles Darwin on it... They looked it over and didn't seem to have a problem with it... Of course, it's possible with as much harassing and joking around we had been doing at that point, we had confused them enough that they had no idea who was probably even diving... This was after Lee had already given them his YMCA "Skin Diver" card from 1969 and I had given them my PPL when that asked "if I had a card"... <evil-grin> >> What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone >> from commercial dive boats? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 1969 and I had given them my PPL when that asked "if I had a card"... > <evil-grin> The card reads "SCUBA" and it's from NAUI. You got the year right. I didn't get a card from my initial YMCA training in 1962. Lee <snip> > What benefit does a "solo card" give you? Does it allow you to dive alone > from commercial dive boats? At least three of the boats I dive from don't care whether you have a solo card or not. They "encourage the use of the buddy system," but they regard their job as one of providing transportation and being there when you surface and think that managing your dive is up to you. (Probably why I keep going back....) These dives are often deep (100' or more, some to 150'+), in the northeast, in cold water (usually in the 40's), on wrecks. Dutch Springs, on the other hand, where there aren't many places over 100' deep, requires a solo card and a transponder to dive solo. John Eells > We arrived back from Bonaire yesterday. I'll post a quick trip report > on .locations later. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > not taking up too much of my vacation downtime. Janna took the class > with me, I count 3 people in your scenario - are sure you really SOLO'ED? |
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