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Scuba Forum / General / May 2007Going down fast. Dive thread!
OK, anyone who has dived or even taken a course knows about coming up slow, and most of us know that, as Lee mentioned, the last thirty feet up should be even slower. How about going down? On a fairly deep dive, I prefer a reasonably fast, but controlled descent, slowing when near my depth or the bottom, and going neutral before hitting. If vis is less or poor, I do slow down. I also double check to make sure that my BC/drysuit is working properly @ 20 to 30 feet before the descent. Anyone see that as a safety problem? I should note, if I have a buddy that needs more time, such as my wife, who needs lots of time to equalize, I do stay with them. ;) Dan OK, anyone who has dived or even taken a course knows about coming up slow, and most of us know that, as Lee mentioned, the last thirty feet up should be even slower. How about going down? On a fairly deep dive, I prefer a reasonably fast, but controlled descent, slowing when near my depth or the bottom, and going neutral before hitting. If vis is less or poor, I do slow down. I also double check to make sure that my BC/drysuit is working properly @ 20 to 30 feet before the descent. Anyone see that as a safety problem? I should note, if I have a buddy that needs more time, such as my wife, who needs lots of time to equalize, I do stay with them. ;) I suck every bit of air out of my wing on deck and drop like a bomb. It can be the highpoint of my dive. "Douglas W \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: : I suck every bit of air out of my wing on deck and drop like a bomb. : : It can be the highpoint of my dive. I descend as fast as my ears allow. It is quite simply, not a safety issue. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > OK, anyone who has dived or even taken a course knows about coming up > slow, and most of us know that, as Lee mentioned, the last thirty feet up [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > It can be the highpoint of my dive. That can't taste good, but I do it on occasion. Amazing how much air can be in there when it seemed empty.... >> OK, anyone who has dived or even taken a course knows about coming up >> slow, and most of us know that, as Lee mentioned, the last thirty feet up [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > That can't taste good, but I do it on occasion. Amazing how much air can > be in there when it seemed empty.... I do it every drop. When (after) you clean your BC or wing, you should blow Listerine into it. A mouthful or two. It'll be -minty fresh- (and germ free) next time around. :-) Vodka works too... >>> OK, anyone who has dived or even taken a course knows about coming up >>> slow, and most of us know that, as Lee mentioned, the last thirty feet [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Vodka works too... Bet that Lemon/lime vodka would do great then.... > I suck every bit of air out of my wing on deck and drop like a bomb. > > It can be the highpoint of my dive. Yep, as long as you have the control to flare out at the end. Otherwise the coral can hurt. kula >> I suck every bit of air out of my wing on deck and drop like a bomb. >> >> It can be the highpoint of my dive. > > Yep, as long as you have the control to flare out at the end. Otherwise > the coral can hurt. I got -air brakes-, Baby. :-) > kula >> I suck every bit of air out of my wing on deck and drop like a bomb. >> >> It can be the highpoint of my dive. > > Yep, as long as you have the control to flare out at the end. Otherwise > the coral can hurt. who cares but you could hurt the coral > who cares but you could hurt the coral There's my pc buddy! :^) kula >> who cares but you could hurt the coral > > There's my pc buddy! :^) pc? > >> who cares but you could hurt the coral > > > There's my pc buddy! :^) > > pc? Pro-Coral >> >> who cares but you could hurt the coral >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Pro-Coral Oh thankyou, the only pc I could think of was politically correct and that doesn't fit the context :-) >> I suck every bit of air out of my wing on deck and drop like a bomb. >> >> It can be the highpoint of my dive. > Yep, as long as you have the control to flare out at the end. Otherwise the > coral can hurt. Let's see. Up here in the North East (USA), we got wrecks. Plenty of them. Don't too much have to worry about coral in these parts. But, you would have to worry about being impailed on a piece of sharp wreckage, landing on a monk fish big enough to take a chunk outa ya, a scorpion fish, those dorals are sharp and have some painful stuff in them, get lucking and land on a flounder or pound into the sand if you miss the wreck. But no coral here.... > or pound into the sand if you miss the > wreck. But no coral here.... Awh, 'ell... If you don't bounce when you hit the sand, you weren't descending fast enough... >>or pound into the sand if you miss the >>wreck. But no coral here.... > Awh, 'ell... If you don't bounce when you hit the sand, you weren't > descending fast enough... In low vis, I sometimes have to look at the depth gauge to see if I am getting close to hitting something harder than me. Sand isn't too bad. Just a dull thud, a little re-orientation and off I go. > >>or pound into the sand if you miss the > >>wreck. But no coral here.... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > getting close to hitting something harder than me. Sand isn't too bad. > Just a dull thud, a little re-orientation and off I go. It's the masts and other pointy bits that suck in zero viz descents. At least if I drop head first I don't hurt anything valuable. JF > It's the masts and other pointy bits that suck in zero viz descents. > At least if I drop head first I don't hurt anything valuable. I suspect that there are those in this group who would argue that no matter which way you went down, you wouldn't hurt anything valuable... <evil-grin> >> It's the masts and other pointy bits that suck in zero viz descents. >> At least if I drop head first I don't hurt anything valuable. > >I suspect that there are those in this group who would argue that no >matter which way you went down, you wouldn't hurt anything valuable... ><evil-grin> I missed the point in this discussion where we were or were not in favor of the ok sign upon entry to the water. Also, I seem to remember reading somewhere that you should control your decend as you do your ascend. Any thoughts ? >>>It's the masts and other pointy bits that suck in zero viz descents. >>>At least if I drop head first I don't hurt anything valuable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > reading somewhere that you should control your decend as you do your > ascend. Any thoughts ? Experienced divers, especially in current, generally descend as quickly as possible. The OK sign for less experienced divers is actually an opportunity for them to get comfortable and organized while still on the surface. That's why there is no standard "I'm not OK" sign. (Or maybe it's because no one really cares.) An experienced, properly weighted and trimmed, diver can drop faster than a stone (swimming down) and flare out to neutral buoyancy within a few feet of his target. esg >>>>It's the masts and other pointy bits that suck in zero viz descents. >>>>At least if I drop head first I don't hurt anything valuable. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >surface. That's why there is no standard "I'm not OK" sign. (Or maybe >it's because no one really cares.) In rivers, such as the St Lawrence, the current can be ripping on the surface and much less of a problem the deeper you go. <snip> --- Mike from Ottawa El Stroko Guapo <omgray@earthlink.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :An experienced, properly weighted and trimmed, diver can drop faster :than a stone (swimming down) and flare out to neutral buoyancy within a :few feet of his target. I'm still a rookie so I inflate my bc to achieve neutral bouyancy when I get to the bottom. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > I'm still a rookie so I inflate my bc to achieve neutral bouyancy when > I get to the bottom. Neutral buoyancy? Totally overrated... Didn't need it for the Mk-V, so it must not be necessary... >> I'm still a rookie so I inflate my bc to achieve neutral bouyancy when >> I get to the bottom. > Neutral buoyancy? Totally overrated... We noticed you felt that way when we did the Spiegel. Lee > We noticed you felt that way when we did the Spiegel. Yeah, I guessed wrong on how much lead I was going to need with those tanks in salt water and not diving my full FJ 5mm wetsuit... One of the problems of not always diving the same gear configuration... If I ever end up with a contract down in Florida, I'll have a chance to determine exactly how much lead I need in all gear configurations... So far, none have come up down there... Instead, I get choice dive locales like IOWA !!! On Feb 24, 9:10 am, Grumman-581 <grumman...@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM- gmail.com> wrote: > Yeah, I guessed wrong on how much lead I was going to need with those > tanks in salt water and not diving my full FJ 5mm wetsuit... One of > the problems of not always diving the same gear configuration... If I > ever end up with a contract down in Florida, I'll have a chance to > determine exactly how much lead I need in all gear configurations... Funny, you'd think an engineer could read the various charts comparing weight parameters of various tanks and figure out the differences. Heck, I'm a lawyer and I figger it just fine. > Funny, you'd think an engineer could read the various charts comparing > weight parameters of various tanks and figure out the differences. > Heck, I'm a lawyer and I figger it just fine. Here's the factors: 1. Steel tanks vs aluminum tanks 2. Full FJ 5mm wetsuit vs FJ top vs FJ bottom vs no wetsuit 3. Salt vs fresh water Thus 2 * 4 * 2 = 16 different weighting possibilities... I believe I was just using the FJ top on that dive, but I carried enough lead for the full FJ wetsuit... Oh well, it's better than not having enough lead and constantly be fighting to get down... > I'm still a rookie so I inflate my bc to achieve neutral bouyancy when > I get to the bottom. If that's the test, I'm also a rookie. Curtis > >> It's the masts and other pointy bits that suck in zero viz descents. > >> At least if I drop head first I don't hurt anything valuable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > reading somewhere that you should control your decend as you do your > ascend. Any thoughts ? I always try to control my descent as I ascend. :-) > I missed the point in this discussion where we were or were not in > favor of the ok sign upon entry to the water. Also, I seem to remember > reading somewhere that you should control your decend as you do your > ascend. Any thoughts ? The OK sign upon entry is a courtesy to the operator of the boat, particularly when the boat is not moored, drift diving, for example. Whether or not you extend that courtesy is pretty much up to you. I generally don't and, except when I think I've run into a real anal operator, normally tell them not to expect one. If they insist, they're likely to get a very different sign as I enter the water. Lee >> I missed the point in this discussion where we were or were not in >> favor of the ok sign upon entry to the water. Also, I seem to remember [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Lee I seem to remember a discussion on here about "long bone embolisim (sp) " on rapid descent a few years ago > I seem to remember a discussion on here about "long bone embolisim > (sp) " on rapid descent a few years ago Ouch. I can't think of any fate worse than embolizing the long bone. It's a fact that rapid descents can lead to HPNS on those really deep dives. The guidelines stress not descending any faster than 1 fsw/ minute when using trimix below 600'. I know I don't. "At diving depths greater than 600 fsw (183 msw), signs and symptoms of a condition known as the high pressure nervous syndrome (HPNS) appear and become worse the faster the rate of compression used and the greater the depth or pressure attained. HPNS is characterized in humans by dizziness, nausea, vomiting, postural and intention tremors, fatigue and somnolence, myoclonic jerking, stomach cramps, decrements in intellectual and psychomotor performance, poor sleep with nightmares, and increased slow wave and decreased fast wave activity of the brain as measured by an electroencephalogram (Bennett et al. 1986)." Therefore, if you have myoclonic jerking of your long bone, I suggest descending slower. >>I seem to remember a discussion on here about "long bone embolisim >>(sp) " on rapid descent a few years ago [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > dives. The guidelines stress not descending any faster than 1 fsw/ > minute when using trimix below 600'. I know I don't. I don't either. HPNS is even more poorly understood than N narc and oxtox, but lacks their wild and sexy myths. Let's start some. I once got an HPNS hit at 20 fsw after eating too much lobster the night before and not getting enough sex to work it off. Definitely a long bone problem. esg "I once got an HPNS hit at 20 fsw after eating too much lobster the night before and not getting enough sex to work it off. Definitely a long bone problem." There's my next diving t-shirt. >>> I seem to remember a discussion on here about "long bone embolisim >>> (sp) " on rapid descent a few years ago >> Ouch. I can't think of any fate worse than embolizing the long bone. >> >> It's a fact that rapid descents can lead to HPNS on those really deep >> dives. The guidelines stress not descending any faster than 1 fsw/ >> minute when using trimix below 600'. I know I don't. > I don't either. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > esg This is why I love rec.scuba! log_dog@verizonnet.addthedot (Rod) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I missed the point in this discussion where we were or were not in :favor of the ok sign upon entry to the water. Also, I seem to remember :reading somewhere that you should control your decend as you do your :ascend. Any thoughts ? I think that it is perfectly ok to descend as quickly as you can. If you are properly weighted you won't be going that fast anyhow. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > I think that it is perfectly ok to descend as quickly as you can. If > you are properly weighted you won't be going that fast anyhow. Not necessarily. I will be able to drop like an anchor on Sunday, and I'll be weighted only about 2 lbs heavy. (OK, so I'm diving doubles / stage, 255 CF of gas start). :-) I'll let y'all know how Key Largo is, if somebody, like my dive buddy, doesn't beat me to it. Curtis >> I think that it is perfectly ok to descend as quickly as you can. If >> you are properly weighted you won't be going that fast anyhow. > Not necessarily. I will be able to drop like an anchor on Sunday, and > I'll be weighted only about 2 lbs heavy. (OK, so I'm diving doubles / > stage, 255 CF of gas start). :-) Naughty, naughty, fooling your fellow rec.scubans. When you start your drop, you'll be a darned sight more negative than 2 lbs. > I'll let y'all know how Key Largo is, if somebody, like my dive buddy, > doesn't beat me to it. Dive buddy? You mean someone is actually willing to dive with you? Doing a shallow reef with Captain PADI, are you? Lee >>> I think that it is perfectly ok to descend as quickly as you can. If >>> you are properly weighted you won't be going that fast anyhow. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Naughty, naughty, fooling your fellow rec.scubans. When you start your > drop, you'll be a darned sight more negative than 2 lbs. OK, so I intend to ditch a lot of weight during the dive by breathing. :-) >> I'll let y'all know how Key Largo is, if somebody, like my dive buddy, >> doesn't beat me to it. > > Dive buddy? You mean someone is actually willing to dive with you? Doing > a shallow reef with Captain PADI, are you? He did make an offer I think to allow you to do one three hour dive on our favorite shallow reef site. Curtis >> Naughty, naughty, fooling your fellow rec.scubans. When you start your >> drop, you'll be a darned sight more negative than 2 lbs. > > OK, so I intend to ditch a lot of weight during the dive by breathing. > :-) 10-4 good buddy > He did make an offer I think to allow you to do one three hour dive on our > favorite shallow reef site. Oh goody goody. Actually, if I could get down there quickly enough, I'd probably take him up on it this afternoon. It doesn't look like I'll make it. I still haven't sorted out everything to load the car, let alone actually put it in the car. I may run up to Fill Express to see if they'll bump the pressure in my tanks just a bit. They're dead on Speaking of loading the car, I'll be bringing an inexpensive, but adequate, hand truck to move stuff from car to boat. You're welcome to use it if it won't embarass you too much. Jayna got me a room at Amy Slate's Amore Divers for tonight. I got the last room and, unfortunately, it only has one bed. It may, however, have a couch. I've not seen it, so can't be sure one way or the other. I'll let you know as soon as I know. See you at the motel, see you at the shop, or see you on the boat. By the way, a quick calculation at my normal SAC indicates it would take more than 4 hours for me to test my weighting with the twinset. Then again, I could always hold the purge valve open on the alternate while I breath off the primary. Hmmm, I wonder if it's possible to freeze a first or second stage in sub tropical water. Lee >>> I think that it is perfectly ok to descend as quickly as you can. If >>> you are properly weighted you won't be going that fast anyhow. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Dive buddy? You mean someone is actually willing to dive with you? Doing > a shallow reef with Captain PADI, are you? Damn! Missing out on another SoFla dive. I heard thru the coconut telegraph that Captain PADI quit.......any confirmation? LD. > Damn! Missing out on another SoFla dive. Oh, you'd have LOVED this one. Got Lee to buddy with me on DIR Boat Day. Lee in doubles with AL 40 stage, me in doubles with AL80 stage. Dive plan 40 min BT (or gas), light deco out, one dive rather than two (teams had choice). Not the usual tourist briefing, just dive your level, be back in 2 hours, and have fun. USCGC Duane 90-100 FSW, max 104FSW, for 40 min BT & 70 min total dive time for me. Water 73 deg, vis decent. ===> for Dan Bracuk, LOTS of fish, specifically lots of good sized Barracuda. I'll let Lee tell you about conditions. Curtis >> Damn! Missing out on another SoFla dive. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I'll let Lee tell you about conditions. I wish I would have been there. I still have my $300 credit from NWA so I imagine I'll be down there sometime soon. : ===> for Dan Bracuk, LOTS of fish, specifically lots of good sized :Barracuda. Always a good dive when you see a fish. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > Always a good dive when you see a fish. I would reword that to, "Always a good dive when you see a fish that doesn't consider you a food source"... <grin> >> Always a good dive when you see a fish. > > I would reword that to, "Always a good dive when you see a fish that > doesn't consider you a food source"... <grin> Add the qualifier "if you spend more time looking at rather than feeding the fish". Curtis On Feb 26, 12:13 am, Grumman-581 <grumman...@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM- gmail.com> wrote: > > Always a good dive when you see a fish. > > I would reword that to, "Always a good dive when you see a fish that > doesn't consider you a food source"... <grin> I'm more inclinded to go with: "Always a good dive when you see a fish that you consider a food source". > I'm more inclinded to go with: "Always a good dive when you see a fish > that you consider a food source". Well, I like shark meat... As such, I consider them a food source... Of course, this would mean that a Great White would also have to be considered a food source... Unfortunately, they are unlikely to acknowledge my belief that I am at the top of the food chain as as such, I prefer to not dive with them... I guess I'm just some sort of Chondrichthyical bigot... >> I'm more inclinded to go with: "Always a good dive when you see a fish >> that you consider a food source". > Well, I like shark meat... As such, I consider them a food source... > Of course, this would mean that a Great White would also have to be > considered a food source... Unfortunately, they are unlikely to > acknowledge my belief that I am at the top of the food chain as as > such, I prefer to not dive with them... I guess I'm just some sort of > Chondrichthyical bigot... You do carry a concealed weapon for personal defense, right? Why would it be any different when diving? I must admit, though, for a great white, I'd want a very powerful weapon with sufficient range to ensure I can stop an attack before it gets very far. Somehow, blowing a shark's brains out while I'm gripped by his three inch long, razor sharp teeth, does not sound like a viable plan for self defense. Lee > >> I'm more inclinded to go with: "Always a good dive when you see a fish > >> that you consider a food source". [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Lee Please... everyone should kow how to deal with a Great White now. You find an undersea laboratory, have the shark break out the window, have the shark partially eat your firend, and then pull the pin on the grenade you friend is carrying using a gaff or spear thing. Haven't you ever seen Jaws 2? Or was that Jaws 3? >> Damn! Missing out on another SoFla dive. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > USCGC Duane Done the Duane twice. Nice wreck. I don't dive with any Capt or crew that gives a briefing more stringent thn that...........at least not one I've ever listened to. ;0) Sorry I missed it.....and sorry for the delay CB. Miss ya! Limey. > 90-100 FSW, max 104FSW, for 40 min BT & 70 min total dive time for me. > Water 73 deg, vis decent. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Curtis On Feb 19, 6:16 pm, "Douglas W \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: > OK, anyone who has dived or even taken a course knows about coming up slow, > and most of us know that, as Lee mentioned, the last thirty feet up should [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > It can be the highpoint of my dive. I'm with Pops. In fact most of the time, I do the FL East coast head first bomb. I'm at 10 feet and going down while the rest of the cattle are still giving their OK signals to the DMs. "capt.bill11" <capt.bill11@verizon.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I'm with Pops. In fact most of the time, I do the FL East coast head :first bomb. I'm at 10 feet and going down while the rest of the cattle :are still giving their OK signals to the DMs. I could do that, but I'd rather stay married. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > :I'm with Pops. In fact most of the time, I do the FL East coast head > :first bomb. I'm at 10 feet and going down while the rest of the cattle > :are still giving their OK signals to the DMs. > > I could do that, but I'd rather stay married. Seems the easy solution is to get you on a boat where we're the "cattle", and the bottom is close enough that such a descent is pointless. Curtis "\"Magilla\"" <cavey_curtis@$$ yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: : Seems the easy solution is to get you on a boat where we're the :"cattle", and the bottom is close enough that such a descent is pointless. That's a lot more fun than you make it sound. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > : Seems the easy solution is to get you on a boat where we're the > :"cattle", and the bottom is close enough that such a descent is > pointless. > That's a lot more fun than you make it sound. I'm with you, sort of. Some of the most beautiful scenery and most colorful fish, are found at shallow depths and, as you well know, the closer you are to the surface, the more color you and your camera see. The biggest advantage of diving deeper used to be that you didn't usually find other divers already there when you arrived. Even that's not the case any longer. Lee > : Seems the easy solution is to get you on a boat where we're the > :"cattle", and the bottom is close enough that such a descent is > pointless. > > That's a lot more fun than you make it sound. I hoped it sounds real appealing. :-) Curtis >> :I'm with Pops. In fact most of the time, I do the FL East coast head >> :first bomb. I'm at 10 feet and going down while the rest of the cattle >> :are still giving their OK signals to the DMs. >> I could do that, but I'd rather stay married. > Seems the easy solution is to get you on a boat where we're the > "cattle", and the bottom is close enough that such a descent is pointless. That would be pretty shallow. Over the years, I've found that you see a lot more if start your descent immediately and are looking down as you are descending. Sharks and a lot of other sea creatures tend to head out as divers are heading in. Often, you only have a narrow window of opportunity. Lee > On Feb 19, 6:16 pm, "Douglas W \"Popeye\" Frederick" > <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > first bomb. I'm at 10 feet and going down while the rest of the cattle > are still giving their OK signals to the DMs. Don't let the secret out about giving the big "OK" sign after jumping in. At least up here, the type "A" crowd are suited up on sitting on the table waiting for the "ok" from the mate to jump in. The "OK" crowd are still trying to figure out why their first stage is on backwards... >OK, anyone who has dived or even taken a course knows about coming up slow, and most of us know that, as Lee mentioned, the last thirty feet up should be even slower. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Dan I descend as quickly as possible, with the caveat that one of my dive buddies has equalisation difficulties at times, so he goes first and sets the pace. He takes his time & we're always prepared to abort if he has severe problems. --- Mike from Ottawa |
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