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Scuba Forum / General / December 2006

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Dillon Pyron - 14 Dec 2006 05:20 GMT
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I
do.
--Robert A. Heinlein
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dillon

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Douglas W "Popeye" Frederick - 14 Dec 2006 09:11 GMT
>I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
> because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I
> do.

 How profound.

 An excellent way to live life.

> --Robert A. Heinlein
JOF - 14 Dec 2006 14:21 GMT
> I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
> because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I
> do.
>  --Robert A. Heinlein

He also wrote -
"I never learned from a man who agreed with me."

and

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once."

and to remind us of our place in the household hierarchy he gave us

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea."

JF
Kari - 14 Dec 2006 14:53 GMT
> I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
> because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I
> do.
>  --Robert A. Heinlein

Out of curiousity, do you see any difference between quotes attributed
to a person, and words that an author has put in the mouth of
characters in a book?
Douglas W "Popeye" Frederick - 14 Dec 2006 15:25 GMT
>> I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
>> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> to a person, and words that an author has put in the mouth of
> characters in a book?

 Perplexing question.

 But with that observation, there's more venues that just those two.

 I dunno, is there a difference?

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                                   Popeye
  "I suppose there would be some amount of confiscation
 involved in my idea of appropriate weapon ownership" -JOF
                     www.finalprotectivefire.com

JOF - 14 Dec 2006 16:01 GMT
> >> I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
> >> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>   I dunno, is there a difference?

Heinlein happens to be one of my favourite writers. The interesting
thing about him is the consistency of his messages via these
statements. I have to think he really believed a lot of the thoughts he
voiced through certain characters. I have to admit that Kari's thought
was also my first reaction, but then I reconsidered.

JF
Kari - 14 Dec 2006 17:20 GMT
> > >> I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
> > >> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> JF

It was a question, not an opinion.  :-)  The character of whom we are
speaking is one of the "old men" in the heinlein collection, and as
such, his words may indeed represent the views of RAH himself.

It kind of makes you wonder what RAH was thinking about when he writes
of Lazarus' parentage...  doesn't it?
JOF - 14 Dec 2006 17:48 GMT
> It was a question, not an opinion.  :-)  The character of whom we are
> speaking is one of the "old men" in the heinlein collection, and as
> such, his words may indeed represent the views of RAH himself.
>
> It kind of makes you wonder what RAH was thinking about when he writes
> of Lazarus' parentage...  doesn't it?

I've forgotten the details. But speaking of him, did it ever occur to
you that Jubal Harshaw and Lazarus Long were one in the same? I'm sure
I read that in one of the books but can't remembr which one.

JF
Lee Bell - 14 Dec 2006 15:56 GMT
>> I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
>> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> to a person, and words that an author has put in the mouth of
> characters in a book?

Heinlein wrote a lot of his social and political philosophy into the
characters in his books.  He also wrote a lot of it in his own name.  The
former got read often.  The latter, not so often.

The quote above, in my opinion, is one of his more bogus ones for a couple
reasons:
1. If you violate the rules, you don't retain the freedom to do so again for
long.  There's no quicker way to lose your freedom than to abuse the rules
that your society believes are right, no matter what the society, or how
silly the rules.
2. While knowing you are morally responsible for everything you do is a very
important point, it's not freedom.  No moral person, or one that accepts
responsibility for all of his own actions, is as free as someone who can
blame his immoral acts on someone else.

Lee
Dillon Pyron - 19 Dec 2006 04:31 GMT
>> I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable,
>> I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>to a person, and words that an author has put in the mouth of
>characters in a book?

Heinlein wrote as he thought.  Most of his SF was social commentary in
a fictional package.  Starship Troopers isn't a was story.

Now Friday, there's an interesting one.  The man got kinky as he aged.
Although some people say that his wife actually wrote that one, as
well as a few others.
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dillon

When I was a kid, I used to think the horse's name was Bob

Lee Bell - 19 Dec 2006 13:18 GMT
> Starship Troopers isn't a war story.

I presume you meant "war story" instead of "was story" so I changed it.
Hope I'm right.  I bet I've purchased Starship Troopers half a dozen times
and read it twice that many times.  Now I have it in electronic form, I'll
have it forever.

> Now Friday, there's an interesting one.  The man got kinky as he aged.
> Although some people say that his wife actually wrote that one, as
> well as a few others.

Almost certainly my favorite Heinlein book of all time.  It's the only one
I'm sure I have in hard cover.  I've read it so many times, I could almost
tell the story from memory.  Luckily, my memory isn't what it used to be.
I'll soon start on it again, this time in electronic form.

Lee
Dillon Pyron - 22 Dec 2006 04:11 GMT
>> Starship Troopers isn't a war story.

Yes, war.

>I presume you meant "war story" instead of "was story" so I changed it.
>Hope I'm right.  I bet I've purchased Starship Troopers half a dozen times
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> Although some people say that his wife actually wrote that one, as
>> well as a few others.

Virginia.  A very nice person.  Met her and him when he keynoted at
Aggiecon, I was on the committee.  We had dinner with them before the
speech and he was a scotch lover.  Too bad I wasn't into it at the
time, he drank some fine ones.

>Almost certainly my favorite Heinlein book of all time.  It's the only one
>I'm sure I have in hard cover.  I've read it so many times, I could almost
>tell the story from memory.  Luckily, my memory isn't what it used to be.
>I'll soon start on it again, this time in electronic form.

Love both of them.

I've been searching used book stores (more frequently, rare book
stores) for my first SF book, and the one that actually got me into
reading.  Time for the Stars.

>Lee
>
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dillon

When I was a kid, I used to think the horse's name was Bob

 
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