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Scuba Forum / General / December 2006Skin Bends
So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? > So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? I do. Skin bends is usually immediate. What happened? > > So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? > > I do. Skin bends is usually immediate. What happened? I finished my dives for the day and went back to my room. I didn't shower off the salt. I went out on my patio overlooking the water and hung out for a while. A good half hour, I'd say, after I got out of the water, I started to itch and was significantly more itchy in a couple of spots on my hips and tummy. I scratched myself a bit without thinking about it too much. Shortly after, I sat down and read for a while. Soon I realized that it really hurt in the area around where I was so itchy. I mean, it hurt like a deep bruise. Since I was still itchy, I took a shower, thinking I needed to get the salt off me. And then I took an antihistamine, thinking that if it was the bends, the anti-h wouldn't work. Doh. Having since done some reading, I know better now. In any event, the itching went away but then I noticed that my skin was purplish at the spots that had been most itchy. Also, there was that deep bruised feeling but there was nothing that I would recognize as a real rash, nor any puckering, dimpling or swelling (other than what is normal, uh, for me). :^) That said, there was a bit of a rash on my tummy . . though I had scratched it the most, so it was kind of difficult to say which came first. The next day, most evidence was gone, other than I realized that the spot on my tummy exactly matched where my cumberbund and buckle sit. I had uneventful dives and felt fine when I came out of the water. About an hour or two later, those same sites, really started to hurt again. I could walk with little to no pain but sitting or laying on them was very painful. I complained at the shop again and was again reassured. The third day, I felt it but it wasn't too bad until again, an hour or two after my dives. No real pain walking, only when sitting or laying on it. Again, the shop reassured me. We decided that it was a combination of my weight gain this summer and back rolling off their wide rails. This makes sense since (except for my tummy), this matched the sites that had been discoloured the first day and the sites of deep pain. The fourth day, I went to the Blue Hole with follow-up dives at the Atolls. This was a different boat and entry was stride. There was no pain, no itching, nothing like that. The fifth day, I went back to diving on the other boat which again required the back roll. I had no problems then and no problems since either. > A good half hour, I'd say, after I got out of the water, I started > to itch and was significantly more itchy in a couple of spots on my hips and > tummy. I scratched myself a bit without thinking about it too much. > Shortly after, I sat down and read for a while. Soon I realized that it > really hurt in the area around where I was so itchy. I mean, it hurt like a > deep bruise. That certainly sounds like skin bends. > The next day, most evidence was gone, other than I realized that the spot on > my tummy exactly matched where my cumberbund and buckle sit. In what I've seen, it can look bruised and take several days to clear up. It happens in fatty tissue (don't hit me, I'm being clinical). It is pretty common for women to get in in their breasts. This is where I've seen a couple of women get it, and guys seem to get it around their stomachs. Others' experiences may be different, but this is what I've seen. I've gotten it in my hands. Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see what happens. It can never hurt. >> A good half hour, I'd say, after I got out of the water, I started >> to itch and was significantly more itchy in a couple of spots on my hips [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see what > happens. It can never hurt. I would seek medical attention because it can hurt ( your health ) (snip)> > Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see what > > happens. It can never hurt. > > I would seek medical attention because it can hurt ( your health ) Well, I don't think I need medical attention anymore, but I suppose I shall have to be more watchful in the future. > (snip)> > Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see what > > > happens. It can never hurt. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Well, I don't think I need medical attention anymore, but I suppose I shall > have to be more watchful in the future. But here's something else that I find quite interesting. My shoulder has been really bothering me since last January. At times, that arm has been almost completely disabled. Most of the time I've been in pain and now and then, in excruciating pain. When I went to Bequia in the spring, I was quite concerned about whether or not I'd be able to dive at all. The dive op people were very helpful though and as the days past, the pain lessened and my arm became more mobile. There were some set backs over the summer and I was a bit worried again before this trip. Amazingly, by the time I left, I was virtually pain free and I have almost complete range of motion. So oddly enough, while I may have suffered skin bends, my shoulder improves. I think I'll book another trip. Airfare is the same price as an MRI. > But here's something else that I find quite interesting. My shoulder has > been really bothering me since last January. At times, that arm has been > almost completely disabled. Most of the time I've been in pain and now and > then, in excruciating pain. Wear happens. > When I went to Bequia in the spring, I was quite concerned about whether or > not I'd be able to dive at all. The dive op people were very helpful though > and as the days past, the pain lessened and my arm became more mobile. > There were some set backs over the summer and I was a bit worried again > before this trip. Amazingly, by the time I left, I was virtually pain free > and I have almost complete range of motion. Different moving patterns, warm water. > So oddly enough, while I may have suffered skin bends, my shoulder improves. > I think I'll book another trip. Airfare is the same price as an MRI. Rearrange your seat/table position, and switch you mouse to left-hand mode. Computer mouse, that is. Matthias >> But here's something else that I find quite interesting. My shoulder has >> been really bothering me since last January. At times, that arm has been [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Rearrange your seat/table position, and >switch you mouse to left-hand mode. Trackball. It lets me pick a single, comfortable position. I can rest my whole forearm on the armrest of the chair. Of course I also have a properly installed and aligned keyboard tray. >Computer mouse, that is. > >Matthias >  Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I used to think the horse's name was Bob > (snip)> > Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see what > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Well, I don't think I need medical attention anymore, but I suppose I shall > have to be more watchful in the future. It might well have been an urticaria. Otherwise, how were your profiles? Did you dive more than twice a day, long, shallowish profiles? Matthias > > Well, I don't think I need medical attention anymore, but I suppose I shall > > have to be more watchful in the future. > > It might well have been an urticaria. Urticaria? I can look it up but might just as well get your take on it too. > Otherwise, how were your profiles? Did you dive more than > twice a day, long, shallowish profiles? Profiles were similar most days. First dive to around 90', multi-level with safety stop, approx 50 min total. (safety stop on days following, were longer than first day, for obvious reasons). Over one hour surface interval, followed by 60' multi-level with long safety stop. On the Blue Hole day, the first dive was to 135' for approx 8 minutes at depth, slow gradual ascent, with a safety stop half way and 20 minutes at 18' before slowly ascending to the surface. This dive was followed by two others, both around 60', both around 50-55 minutes long with hour+ surface intervals. Actually, third dive may have had a surface interval of 2 hours. In any event, I experienced no pain at all that day or on my last day of diving, where I went back to the 2 dives, first dive 90', second dive 60'. Again, no pain following those dives. Also, I was only itchy on the first dive day, though I had pain on the two following days, there was no more itching or discoloration of the skin. >>>Well, I don't think I need medical attention anymore, but I suppose I > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Urticaria? I can look it up but might just as well get your take on it too. TsTstTs. Women. Ok , I'll play nice. It's a kind of skin rash which can also produce deep pain. Several types of it, allergic ones, non allergic ones. >>Otherwise, how were your profiles? Did you dive more than >>twice a day, long, shallowish profiles? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > around 60', both around 50-55 minutes long with hour+ surface intervals. > Actually, third dive may have had a surface interval of 2 hours. One hour surface intervall can be just plain dangerous. No matter that tables may allow for such. If you dive a certain time ( which you did), and don't ascend slowly, but , say with the obnoxious speed allowed PADI tabes, you may have the most bubble generation between half an hour and one hour post-dive. To descend then again, is not really recommended. > In any event, I experienced no pain at all that day or on my last day of > diving, where I went back to the 2 dives, first dive 90', second dive 60'. > Again, no pain following those dives. > > Also, I was only itchy on the first dive day, though I had pain on the two > following days, there was no more itching or discoloration of the skin. May be your post dives accidentally were the cure for the dives which gave you the itches. Similar to InWaterRecompression. I tried a similar stunt for my GF, when she developped bends. After some calculation, we decided on a medium depth, longish profile, with the calculated ascent time to get rid of all bubbles which might have been created then and before. It worked. Matthias > >>It might well have been an urticaria. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > rash which can also produce deep pain. Several types of it, > allergic ones, non allergic ones. Nope. It wasn't that. I did have a little rash on my tummy but not on my hips, where the pain was greatest. Only small burgundy/purplish bruises on my hips. > > gradual ascent, with a safety stop half way and 20 minutes at 18' before > > slowly ascending to the surface. This dive was followed by two others, both > > around 60', both around 50-55 minutes long with hour+ surface intervals. > > Actually, third dive may have had a surface interval of 2 hours. > > One hour surface intervall can be just plain dangerous. Interesting. I'll check my computer. May have been longer. > No matter that tables may allow for such. > If you dive a certain time ( which you did), and don't > ascend slowly, but , say with the obnoxious speed allowed > PADI tabes, I rarely ascend with obnoxious speed. That said, I was not that happy with my ascent on the first dive, first day, IIRC. >you may have the most bubble generation between > half an hour and one hour post-dive. > To descend then again, is not really recommended. Hmm . . . > > Also, I was only itchy on the first dive day, though I had pain on the two > > following days, there was no more itching or discoloration of the skin. > > May be your post dives accidentally were the cure for the > dives which gave you the itches. > Similar to InWaterRecompression. Yes, I thought of that. > I tried a similar stunt for my GF, when she developped bends. > After some calculation, we decided on a medium depth, > longish profile, with the calculated ascent time to get rid > of all bubbles which might have been created then and before. > It worked. Where/how was she bent? I'm surprised you are giving me the gears about surface interval time but treating the bends with in-water recompression. ;^) > Matthias >>>>It might well have been an urticaria. >>> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > surface interval time but treating the bends with in-water recompression. > ;^) In the morning, we made a descent to fix the anchor on a wreck a 38m. No wreck there, so we ascended qickly to prevet pthers from entering the water. Diver time 7m. 15 minutes later, the same, this time the wreck was there, we did a 17m bottomtime, then slowly ascended. In the afternoon a reef dive, somewhere about 33m, 20m bT. Next morning, another dive, after which she got mild elbow and knee bends. She's got a condition at the knee due to childhood growth. Since bubbles don't grow there fast, we decided to do a "treatment" dive in the afternoon with a depth/time sufficient to reach more than one halftime of the related tissues, to compress the supposed bubbles, and then slowly ascended taking these slow tissues as the leading tissues for decompression. Pain was gone in the dive and did not come back. However I do not suggest this for everyone. There may have been factors I overlooked, leading to said result by chance. Matthias >>>>>It might well have been an urticaria. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >and knee bends. She's got a condition at the knee due to >childhood growth. Growth plate issues? That can cause a lot of problems that seem related to the joints nearby. >Since bubbles don't grow there fast, we decided to do a >"treatment" dive in the afternoon with a depth/time [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >There may have been factors I overlooked, leading to said >result by chance. Uhm, wouldn't O2 have been a smarter choice? It seems you were trading one tissue loading for another. While you were loading the "desired" one, others were loading. The slower ones were catching up and the faster ones were already there. Admitedly the faster ones might have resolved while you ascended, but the slower ones can continue to load. >Matthias Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I used to think the horse's name was Bob > Growth plate issues? That can cause a lot of problems that seem > related to the joints nearby. Yep- she had had surgery at one knee, which is perfect now, but refused to have done the other, because, as a child, she lacked insight on the need of the withgoing immobilisation for a couple of weeks. >>Since bubbles don't grow there fast, we decided to do a >>"treatment" dive in the afternoon with a depth/time [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Uhm, wouldn't O2 have been a smarter choice? No...,not because of the time constants evolved, but because we did want to raise a fuss.., being mostly around the premises of the club, or nautical base. > It seems you were > trading one tissue loading for another. Balancing, not trading. > While you were loading the > "desired" one, others were loading. Not so much as to have an impact. > The slower ones were catching up > and the faster ones were already there. Admitedly the faster ones > might have resolved while you ascended, but the slower ones can > continue to load. Agreed, but that is why we made a dead slow ascent, with stops every 3m. Matthias > (snip)> > Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see > what [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > shall > have to be more watchful in the future. you can be a big butch diver and believe skin bends is only an irratation but some cases have more sinister outcomes. If I may add having skins bends is an indication of a bad? dive profile and may indicate that you are diving very close to the limits with the effects that you may suffer long term harm from micro nitrogen bubbles >>A good half hour, I'd say, after I got out of the water, I started >>to itch and was significantly more itchy in a couple of spots on my hips and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That certainly sounds like skin bends. Otherwise I thought of something chemical in the water/tub where divers soak their equipment in. But I don't know if this would explain the "deep bruise pain" >>The next day, most evidence was gone, other than I realized that the spot on >>my tummy exactly matched where my cumberbund and buckle sit. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > stomachs. Others' experiences may be different, but this is what I've > seen. I've gotten it in my hands. My GF gets it, if, in the elbow, and/or knee. May be related to different dive profiles. We tend to go deep. > Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see what > happens. It can never hurt. Skin bends would mostly soon disappear with O2. We had a diver suffering from pain and with with cutis marmorata from the right shoulder down to the bizeps, down to the stomach. Rashes dissapeared after half an hour with oxygen, pain subsided but got better, two hours later in the chamber after some minutes in Navy VI mod. schedule, pain was gone. Matthias >>>A good half hour, I'd say, after I got out of the water, I started >>>to itch and was significantly more itchy in a couple of spots on my hips and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >where divers soak their equipment in. >But I don't know if this would explain the "deep bruise pain" Actually, my first thought when she described the symptoms was sea lice. >>>The next day, most evidence was gone, other than I realized that the spot on >>>my tummy exactly matched where my cumberbund and buckle sit. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Matthias > Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I used to think the horse's name was Bob > > A good half hour, I'd say, after I got out of the water, I started > > to itch and was significantly more itchy in a couple of spots on my hips and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That certainly sounds like skin bends. At the shop they told me that it would continue to hurt and get worse. That didn't happen. I have to admit I was pretty suspicious but I wanted to believe that it wasn't. > > The next day, most evidence was gone, other than I realized that the spot on > > my tummy exactly matched where my cumberbund and buckle sit. > > In what I've seen, it can look bruised and take several days to clear > up. Nope, it was cleared up the next day . . the bruising that is, except for one small spot. Also, the next day when the pain flared up again a couple of hours after my dives, my tummy wasn't affected as it had been the day before. >It happens in fatty tissue (don't hit me, I'm being clinical). Can't hit you for talking about what's what. It is, what it is, what it is. > It is > pretty common for women to get in in their breasts. This is where I've > seen a couple of women get it, and guys seem to get it around their > stomachs. Others' experiences may be different, but this is what I've > seen. I've gotten it in my hands. I've had pain in my breasts after dives before. So I quit wearing the suit that seemed to cause it. > Whenever you suspect something like this, breathe O2 and see what > happens. It can never hurt. OK, next time. By the way, did I mention that I've had the after dive itchies before? > I've had pain in my breasts after dives before. So I quit wearing the suit > that seemed to cause it. It wasn't the suit, it was the *accessories*... http://www.extremerestraints.com/images/resized/s/st100e_389_325.jpg > So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? itching, sensation of insects crawling on your skin, mottled colour of skin and swelling with little pits in the swelling. >> So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? > > itching, sensation of insects crawling on your skin, mottled colour of > skin and swelling with little pits in the swelling. some more info after a quick google to confirm my previous post ( shouldn't post from memory on medical matters ) http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic121.htm Type I decompression sickness Type I DCS is characterized by one or a combination of the following: (1) mild pains that begin to resolve within 10 minutes of onset (niggles); (2) pruritus, or "skin bends," that causes itching or burning sensations of the skin; and (3) skin rash, which generally is a mottling or marbling of the skin or a papular or plaquelike violaceous rash. On rare occasions, skin has an orange-peel appearance. > >> So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > skin or a papular or plaquelike violaceous rash. On rare occasions, skin has > an orange-peel appearance. Thanks, I read that already. Also, at the dive shop, they told me that it would be a bad rash and most likely cover 1/4 of me, (ie: one shoulder and upper chest area, front and back). >> >> So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? >> > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > would be a bad rash and most likely cover 1/4 of me, (ie: one shoulder and > upper chest area, front and back). What did you do? Were you on the rebreather? > > Thanks, I read that already. Also, at the dive shop, they told me that it > > would be a bad rash and most likely cover 1/4 of me, (ie: one shoulder and > > upper chest area, front and back). > > What did you do? Nothing unusual. First dive to around 90', 45-50 minutes total multi-level dive with safety stop. Over one hour surface interval followed by second dive to around 60', 50-55 minutes total multi-level dive with safety stop. >Were you on the rebreather? No, air. >> > Thanks, I read that already. Also, at the dive shop, they told me that >it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >No, air. Undeserved hit? They do happen, even to nice people. Signaturedillon Aim n Flame, the official lighter of Usenet > >Nothing unusual. First dive to around 90', 45-50 minutes total multi-level > >dive with safety stop. Over one hour surface interval followed by second [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Undeserved hit? They do happen, even to nice people. If it was a hit, it might not have been entirely undeserved. I was tired, dehydrated and had a stomach thingy. > Thanks, I read that already. Also, at the dive shop, they told me that > it would be a bad rash and most likely cover 1/4 of me, (ie: one > shoulder and upper chest area, front and back). Obviously it was because you weren't wearing your banana on your head... > > Thanks, I read that already. Also, at the dive shop, they told me that > > it would be a bad rash and most likely cover 1/4 of me, (ie: one > > shoulder and upper chest area, front and back). > > Obviously it was because you weren't wearing your banana on your head... Oh my God!! You've solved the mystery. I only wore the banana on the *last* day!! > Oh my God!! You've solved the mystery. I only wore the banana on the > *last* day!! Hey, chilly. I am going to Belize for Christmas. Which dive operator should I use ? Am I going to experience a difficulty with importing a banana next week? So many questions. Call me, please. 780-983-1241 David Edmonton, Alberta > > Oh my God!! You've solved the mystery. I only wore the banana on the > > *last* day!! [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > David > Edmonton, Alberta You are kidding me!!! You are just telling me now?? OK, sit by the phone. > >> So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic121.htm By the way, I can't get in there without signing up. Does it have pictures? (snip) >> >> So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > By the way, I can't get in there without signing up. Does it have > pictures? if you want some pictures try this search, if you follow the Capt-jt picture you get some quite good ones http://images.google.com.au/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=skin+bends+&btnG=Search > (snip) (snip) > > By the way, I can't get in there without signing up. Does it have > > pictures? > > if you want some pictures try this search, if you follow the Capt-jt picture > you get some quite good ones http://images.google.com.au/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=skin+bends+&btnG=Search Yeah, that's what the splotches looked like. Only about 3 inches across, maybe 1 to 1.5 down, on my upper hips. Still, it's kind of a hard call isn't it? I mean, that's what bruises would look like, isn't it? > Still, it's kind of a hard call isn't it? I mean, that's what bruises would > look like, isn't it? Upper thighs? Bruises? Are you bragging about your boyfriend or complaining about his farsightedness? >> Still, it's kind of a hard call isn't it? I mean, that's what bruises would >> look like, isn't it? > >Upper thighs? Bruises? Are you bragging about your boyfriend or >complaining about his farsightedness? Could've been the whiskey Might've been the gin Could've been the three or four six-packs, I don't know, but look at the mess I'm in My head is like a football I think I'm going to die Tell me, me oh, me oh my Wasn't that a party Someone took a banana Wore it like a hat I saw someone under my kitchen table Talking to my old tom cat They were talking about hockey The cat was talking back Long about then every-thing went black Wasn't that a party --- Mike from Ottawa <snip> >Could've been the whiskey >Might've been the gin [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Long about then every-thing went black >Wasn't that a party ...apologies to the Irish Rovers --- Mike from Ottawa On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:30:10 +1100, in <457d4143$0$2692$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, dechucka wrote: > itching, sensation of insects crawling on your skin, mottled colour of > skin and swelling with little pits in the swelling. Oh, in other words, just like going into caffeine withdrawal... > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:30:10 +1100, in > <457d4143$0$2692$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, dechucka [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Oh, in other words, just like going into caffeine withdrawal... actually sound more like the alcohol withdraws that you get when your money runs out chilly napisal(a): > So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? http://gallery.bsacforum.co.uk/showphoto.php?photo=308 > chilly napisal(a): > > So . . . who knows what they look like, and what they feel like? > > http://gallery.bsacforum.co.uk/showphoto.php?photo=308 Thanks janusz. I was hoping they wouldn't look like that. :^) |
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