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Scuba Forum / General / November 2006Andria Doria
Does anyone know who runs a dive charter to this wreck? Thanks > Does anyone know who runs a dive charter to this wreck? Depends upon whether or not you want to survive. I'm reading Shadow Divers by Robert Kurson....I had the same thought. Chris > > Does anyone know who runs a dive charter to this wreck? > > Depends upon whether or not you want to survive. > I'm reading Shadow Divers by Robert Kurson....I had the same thought. If someone is diving the Dorea and the choice of boat charter makes a difference in whether they can manage that dive safely, then they shouldnt be diving the Dorea. End of story. I used to dive mostly off the Wahoo, but I wouldnt put my life in their hands either. Have seen some stuff there that didnt exactly thrill me. Never been on the Seeker. Vandit > I used to dive mostly off the Wahoo, but I wouldnt put my life in their > hands either. Have seen some stuff there that didnt exactly thrill me. > Never been on the Seeker. The Seeker was very safe this past summer - it stayed at the dock. It waa sold to someone in New England, and he took a lot of big deposits for trips to the Andrea Doria, but he never left the dock. Nobody got their money back, and right now someone is trying to organize a class action. You can read all about it on TDS. I dove off the Wahoo a bit, but never went to the Andrea Doria. The deal of paying up front and not getting anything back even if the weather was bad and you never left the dock was ridiculous. Steve sold the boat to Hank, and now it is called Garloo. The only other boat I dove from up there was Eagle's Nest, but only once - I have never seen such a psychotic captain and moronic crew anywhere else. To the OP, I think Sea Hunter, John Jack (or something like that), and Wahoo go there, and there are probably a few others. There is a regular poster who would know more; he seems to check in every few days, so keep checking back. The Sea Hunter will dive the Dorea BUT they only take divers that have been checked out. You will have to expect to be interviewed as to your diving experience before they let you join the dive. The crew on the SeaHunter are a very special group of divers with a collection of experience unmatched by any other boat. If you are qualified to dive the Dorea then you would be best served by the SeaHunter. I believe their last Dorea trip was 2005, check out www.seahunter.org for contact information. Give Wes a call and see if he would consider a Dorea trip in 2007.Be prepared its not cheep! >> I used to dive mostly off the Wahoo, but I wouldnt put my life in their >> hands either. Have seen some stuff there that didnt exactly thrill me. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > poster who would know more; he seems to check in every few days, so keep > checking back. > I dove off the Wahoo a bit, but never went to the Andrea Doria. The deal > of paying up front and not getting anything back even if the weather was > bad and you never left the dock was ridiculous. Steve sold the boat to > Hank, and now it is called Garloo. Oh thats even better. Dive the Doria off a renamed boat. >> I dove off the Wahoo a bit, but never went to the Andrea Doria. The deal >> of paying up front and not getting anything back even if the weather was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Dive the Doria off a renamed boat. I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps he could dive both wrecks in the future. >>> I dove off the Wahoo a bit, but never went to the Andrea Doria. The deal >>> of paying up front and not getting anything back even if the weather was >>> bad and you never left the dock was ridiculous. Steve sold the boat to >>> Hank, and now it is called Garloo. Bielinda still has a "wahoo" site up. it's a pretty craptastic site so I didn't disg around in it too much; http://www.wahoo2001.com/  Signature~Rick www.BrethrenoftheCoast.net >>Oh thats even better. >> >>Dive the Doria off a renamed boat. >> > I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps he could dive both wrecks in > the future. > >> I dove off the Wahoo a bit, but never went to the Andrea Doria. The deal > >> of paying up front and not getting anything back even if the weather was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps he could dive both wrecks in > the future. The way I was taught to break the curse is to cross your wake twice, once in each direction (a figure 8) just as soon as possible after leaving the dock... > The way I was taught to break the curse is to cross your wake twice, once in > each direction (a figure 8) just as soon as possible after leaving the > dock It doesn't work if there is a banana on the boat, and more bad things will happen. Best to leave renamed boats alone I think, and stay away from bananas. > It doesn't work if there is a banana on the boat, and more bad things > will happen. Best to leave renamed boats alone I think, and stay away > from bananas. I believe rumors of bad luck and bananas are false, something started by fishermen who realized that they did better when they had bananas on board to keep the competition from finding out. Lee >>I used to dive mostly off the Wahoo, but I wouldnt put my life in their >>hands either. Have seen some stuff there that didnt exactly thrill me. >> Never been on the Seeker. > > The Seeker was very safe this past summer - it stayed at the dock. ***** (five stars) >>I used to dive mostly off the Wahoo, but I wouldnt put my life in their >>hands either. Have seen some stuff there that didnt exactly thrill me. >> Never been on the Seeker. > The Seeker was very safe this past summer - it stayed at the dock. It > waa sold to someone in New England, and he took a lot of big deposits > for trips to the Andrea Doria, but he never left the dock. Nobody got > their money back, and right now someone is trying to organize a class > action. You can read all about it on TDS. Thanks for clearing this up. I knew the boat was sold, and heard something about it not going out. Go figure. > I dove off the Wahoo a bit, but never went to the Andrea Doria. The deal > of paying up front and not getting anything back even if the weather was > bad and you never left the dock was ridiculous. Steve sold the boat to > Hank, and now it is called Garloo. The only other boat I dove from up > there was Eagle's Nest, but only once - I have never seen such a > psychotic captain and moronic crew anywhere else. Ahhh.. well, if the trip was canceled on the Sea Hunter, there was a non-refundable deposit, but you would not loose all your money. There were barrels of extra fuel that had to be purchased before hand for the trip, hence the non refundable deposit (like 6 or so 55 gal drums on board in addition to fuel in the tanks). As for Capt Howard, you really have to know the guy. Yeah.. he can appear to be rough, and his pre dive speech was, well, not for the squeamish or sensitive to being handcuffed and anally be taken care of. But that was only for those that wanted to bring drugs on the boat. As for the crew... let's just say that I had one comment on the "danglies" I had. Strobe for the line, small backup flash light, primary light, wreck reel, catchbag and lift bag attached to me, but secured to not "dangle", in addition to diving doubles w/40cf sling for ascent. I told her I was fine and was diving solo and would be back in an hour or so. Neeedless to say, after coming back with a bag full of nice size lobsters, I commented to her that it was the "danglies" that attracted them. I then asked her how many she caught... she left me alone after that. > To the OP, I think Sea Hunter, John Jack (or something like that), and 7> Wahoo go there, and there are probably a few others. There is a regular > poster who would know more; he seems to check in every few days, so keep > checking back. Yes, it is John Jack run by Capt Zero out of Staten Island. Sea Hunter is in Freeport, LI. Wahoo at Captree Island, LI. I also believe that last year, the Lochness went there, with Capt. Gorman running the boat from Freeport, LI. While the Doria is a great dive, there is a lot of preparation for it in addition to being on boats that really don't cater to you. You have to know what YOU are doing. They don't hold your hand and usually want to know what level of diving you have done. You better have advanced cards in technical stuff (and not AOW either), a nice log book with deep dives (not to 130' either), and of course, your own gear. > As for Capt Howard, you really > have to know the guy. Yeah.. he can appear to be rough, and his pre dive > speech was, well, not for the squeamish or sensitive to being handcuffed > and anally be taken care of. But that was only for those that wanted to > bring drugs on the boat. As for the crew... let's just say that I had > one comment on the "danglies" I had. The strutting with handcuffs act was bad enough; it was the shooting of seagulls with shotguns and then using them for target practice with handguns while divers were in the water that sealed it for me. I should have thumbed it at the dock instead of when I was getting geared up, when I got a ridiculous rant from the captain for being stupid enough to carry 2 deco bottles on the same side. One of the divers surfaced about 200 ft from the boat - no one on the boat even had a drysuit on. I remember one of the crewmembers running back and forth saying "oh my god, this is bad". >>As for Capt Howard, you really >>have to know the guy. Yeah.. he can appear to be rough, and his pre dive [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > boat even had a drysuit on. I remember one of the crewmembers running > back and forth saying "oh my god, this is bad". Yeah.. his crew can be a little... er... you know. That is why I dive on the Seahunter. We all know each other and look out for each other. The mates know their stuff.. are familiar with us and we have a great time. Howard's boat may be the most "lavish", but I don't need that. I want to go diving with the least amount of trouble from the crew. There are many seasoned crew members out there.. just not on that boat. > Yes, it is John Jack run by Capt Zero out of Staten Island. Sea Hunter > is in Freeport, LI. Wahoo at Captree Island, LI. I also believe that > last year, the Lochness went there, with Capt. Gorman running the boat > from Freeport, LI. Hey Tony, The Lockness ran to the Doria in '05 and last year, though out of Montauk not Freeport. 8 hours less run and no fuel on deck, oh. lets not forget the A/C. He will ruin agian next year fro a trip or two TBA. I can't speak for '05 but last year the currents were moving, worse than on the trip we did together. Kevin and I took 15 minutes to tie in. But we got the job done, later that day it was a mill pond. So how's the Sea Hunter been?. Cheers Capt. John Bricker >>Yes, it is John Jack run by Capt Zero out of Staten Island. Sea Hunter >>is in Freeport, LI. Wahoo at Captree Island, LI. I also believe that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Capt. John Bricker The Sea Hunter has been fine. Wes running the boat and all the usual suspects minus you. Louie was out all season. Broke his foot. Other than that, all is well. > The Sea Hunter has been fine. Wes running the boat and all the usual > suspects minus you. Louie was out all season. Broke his foot. Other than > that, all is well. I thought a guy named Sal ran that boat? Sal still owns the boat but lives in Fl now. Wes handles the dive operation now! >> The Sea Hunter has been fine. Wes running the boat and all the usual >> suspects minus you. Louie was out all season. Broke his foot. Other than >> that, all is well. >> > I thought a guy named Sal ran that boat? >>The Sea Hunter has been fine. Wes running the boat and all the usual >>suspects minus you. Louie was out all season. Broke his foot. Other than >>that, all is well. > > I thought a guy named Sal ran that boat? Sal still owns the boat, Wes Carmen just captained it this past season. > > I'm reading Shadow Divers by Robert Kurson....I had the same thought. > > If someone is diving the Dorea and the choice of boat charter makes a > difference in whether they can manage that dive safely, then they > shouldnt be diving the Dorea. End of story. Take a pill, you know what we all mean. Most of us know better than to get on any of those boats. One of those thumb it in the parking lot things. > I used to dive mostly off the Wahoo, but I wouldnt put my life in their > hands either. Have seen some stuff there that didnt exactly thrill me. > Never been on the Seeker. > Take a pill, you know what we all mean. I wasnt referring to the "if you want to live" comment, but more about the choice of boat making a huge difference. > Most of us know better than to get on any of those boats. > One of those thumb it in the parking lot things. Most, I guess. I need a dive boat to get me to the site and back. My dive safety is my own problem. So the choice of boat isnt really a big deal for me (within reason, of course... if the captain decides to tool off and go fishing while I am on the site, or is the type to ignore a SOS bag, that's a different story). There really isnt that much of a difference between the various boats out there. Atleast, there wasnt 7-8 years ago. Dunno how it is these days. Vandit >>Take a pill, you know what we all mean. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Vandit I dunno about that. I've never done the Doria, do know a few people that have. What I have a hard time understanding is how so many folks have ended up dead on a wreck that shallow. Methinks there are issues with that dive that would make me want to do it with divers I know and trust, on a boat I know and trust. It's the same cost, usually. m ps - I hear it's rapidly deteriorating. You planning any serious penetration? >>>Take a pill, you know what we all mean. >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >people that have. What I have a hard time understanding is how >so many folks have ended up dead on a wreck that shallow. china >Methinks there are issues with that dive that would make me want >to do it with divers I know and trust, on a boat I know and trust. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >ps - I hear it's rapidly deteriorating. You planning any serious >penetration? The upper decks have collapsed. > I dunno about that. I've never done the Doria, do know a few > people that have. What I have a hard time understanding is how [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ps - I hear it's rapidly deteriorating. You planning any serious > penetration? This from a good friend who has dove it many times; "Most people die on it for physiological reasons...heart attacks brought on by getting your a.s kicked by 6 foot seas all day after no sleep for 14 hours, gearing up in 95 degree heat ready for 43 degree water, carrying around all the gear and swimming against what can be a 2 knot current on the surface to get to the anchor line. It can be a tough dive, and 240 in NJ vs 240 in Florida is 2 different things. Mapping it doesn't mean sh.t when you can only see 5 feet of it at a time. It was the location of some of my toughest dives." > "Most people die on it for physiological reasons...heart attacks brought on > by getting your a.s kicked by 6 foot seas all day after no sleep for 14 > hours, gearing up in 95 degree heat ready for 43 degree water, carrying > around all the gear and swimming against what can be a 2 knot current on the > surface to get to the anchor line. This is indeed a good part of it. At least we're not seeing any issues with people diving it on air anymore. There is an issue with people going out there and not making the right judgement call when the conditions are beyond their skills and abilities. They also do penetrations that are way beyond their trining and experience. I know a few people who go there regularly, and that is the story I keep hearing. A good friend of mine quit diving altogether after his first AD trip, where he got in way over his head. While training up for the AD a few years ago, I did quite a few dives with the Wahoo, and spent some time with Janet and Hank. They explained to me that the wreck is in the separation zone between the inbound and outbound lanes to NYC - a very busy place where the drifting techniques would be too dangerous. Because of the no refund policy and a buddy issue, I didn't go out there with them. I signed up to go with a group from FL that was going to charter a boat for the trip, and that didn't happen because of safety issues that didn't get addressed to our satisfaction (Option #1). I would take the books with a grain of salt - there are agendas deeply rooted in NY dive boat politics. They are doing a good job of selling books though. >>I dunno about that. I've never done the Doria, do know a few >>people that have. What I have a hard time understanding is how [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > can only see 5 feet of it at a time. It was the location of some of my > toughest dives." We dove it when a Discovery Channel crew were filming on another boat on the site. When I saw the "special" I found out that one of the dives that we did, they didn't. They stopped at 40' because of the current. It took me over 8 minutes to get to the wreck. The current had you like a flag. You could hear the water rushing by you sounding like roaring wind. Your mask danced all around your face. I had a grip on the line for my life, figuring that once on the wreck, I would drop down and the current would not be that bad. It was that bad. I called the dive after 10 minutes on the wreck. It took, what seemed like forever to surface. I thought I would get "bent" from the physical exertion of just holding on to the line on the way up. My arms and hands were aching. A few hours later, the water was fine again. > I dunno about that. I've never done the Doria, do know a few > people that have. What I have a hard time understanding is how > so many folks have ended up dead on a wreck that shallow. I think a lot more of the deaths were back when people were still doing it on air. Or getting greedy for china. The penetrations are tight and twisty in places, with lots of danglies. > Methinks there are issues with that dive that would make me want > to do it with divers I know and trust, on a boat I know and trust. I hear you about doing the dive with someone you trust. The boat, to me, isnt a part of the dive safety equation except as a means of transport (I know, I know...). I've seen Janet walk away from a diver who came up on the surface after a dive on the San Diego and was calling for help - my buddy and I ended up jumping in to sort him out. Incidentally, his problem was that he could not find his inflator and establish positive buoyancy - this is a techie, mind you. Perhaps that answers your question about why so many people have ended up dead on that wreck. > ps - I hear it's rapidly deteriorating. You planning any serious > penetration? Not anymore - the only reason to go back would be the china, and now the only available china is waaay deeper than I care to go on a decaying wreck. I freely admit that I'd love to have salvaged my own "Dorea" plate, and I'll forever regret not doing so. Plus, flying all the way to the US and ponying up for all those bottles of mix, etc. would cost me about the same as a trip to the Galapagos or to Truk - and now that I have my new DSLR housing, I'd rather do that :) Vandit > I hear you about doing the dive with someone you trust. The boat, to > me, isnt a part of the dive safety equation except as a means of > transport (I know, I know...). First, the boat must have some working and deployed safety equipment, like a chase boat. You also want to know that the other divers on the boat are qualified and fit to do the dive, and will make the call to not dive if the conditions are beyond their abilities. Someone else getting bent or dead will really ruin your trip. > > I hear you about doing the dive with someone you trust. The boat, to > > me, isnt a part of the dive safety equation except as a means of > > transport (I know, I know...). > First, the boat must have some working and deployed safety equipment, > like a chase boat. You also want to know that the other divers on the > boat are qualified and fit to do the dive, and will make the call to not > dive if the conditions are beyond their abilities. Someone else getting > bent or dead will really ruin your trip. Nothing like a long boat ride in with a stiff on the deck... >>>I hear you about doing the dive with someone you trust. The boat, to >>>me, isnt a part of the dive safety equation except as a means of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nothing like a long boat ride in with a stiff on the deck... ...and no refunds. >>Take a pill, you know what we all mean. > I wasnt referring to the "if you want to live" comment, but more about > the choice of boat making a huge difference. >>Most of us know better than to get on any of those boats. >>One of those thumb it in the parking lot things. > Most, I guess. I need a dive boat to get me to the site and back. My > dive safety is my own problem. So the choice of boat isnt really a big [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > out there. Atleast, there wasnt 7-8 years ago. Dunno how it is these > days. While I agree with you to some extent, it isn't the same now. Crews have changed on boats over the years. The Seahunter's crew has remained basically the same. But, most of the boats are spartan, basically being a "taxi" to the site and rescue support if needed. Other than that, do you own dive. > Most, I guess. I need a dive boat to get me to the site and back. My > dive safety is my own problem. So the choice of boat isnt really a big > deal for me (within reason, of course... if the captain decides to tool > off and go fishing while I am on the site, or is the type to ignore a > SOS bag, that's a different story). The discusion of boats for the Doria has come up before. On of the questions, which I don't think has been considered by any of the boats that go there, is what to do with a bent diver. I doubt if any commercial or military operation in this part of the country would schedule regular dives on a boat as deep and far from shore as the Doria is, without on site access to a chamber. You'd think a boat specializing in such dives would at least have one of the portable ones. Lee >>Most, I guess. I need a dive boat to get me to the site and back. My >>dive safety is my own problem. So the choice of boat isnt really a big [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Lee Isn't that why the coast guard has helicopters? >> The discusion of boats for the Doria has come up before. On of the >> questions, which I don't think has been considered by any of the boats [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> is, without on site access to a chamber. You'd think a boat specializing >> in such dives would at least have one of the portable ones. > Isn't that why the coast guard has helicopters? Some people who died on the Seeker, including some of the best known ones, didn't live long enough for the Coast Guard to get there. You'd have to check to get accurate information, but off the top of my head, I seem to recall that the Coast Guard has an expected chopper arrival time something more than an hour after they are first called. I don't know if they have a recompression chamber for their choppers, here, or anywhere else. If not, you're looking at another hour, give or take, to reach a medical facility that does. Personally, if I were bent badly enough to worry about it, I'd rather be under treatment right away than an hour or so after permanent damage or death was a certainty. Lee >>>The discusion of boats for the Doria has come up before. On of the >>>questions, which I don't think has been considered by any of the boats [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Lee The only treatment yer going to get on any recreational dive boat is O2. The chambers, even the smallest ones, used in commercial and military operations are too big and heavy and those portable (inflatable) thingies you mentioned are just a half-step better than useless. Invent a portable that will handle 30 psi, permit O2 from a mask, and doesn't cost a gazillion, you'll get rich. It has always seemed to me that IWR is actually a reasonable alternative for rec divers - we're less apt to have injuries other than the DCS, and we're more apt to be diving in non-threatening environmental conditions. But even 20 years ago, when I took my rescue course, IWR was never to be mentioned even in a whisper. m > The only treatment yer going to get on any recreational dive boat is O2. > The chambers, even the smallest ones, used in commercial and military > operations are too big and heavy and those portable (inflatable) thingies > you mentioned are just a half-step better than useless. Invent a portable > that will handle 30 psi, permit O2 from a mask, and doesn't cost a > gazillion, you'll get rich. Brace yourself. http://www.sub-find.com/chambers.htm . I didn't see anything about the chamber's cost, but I think it's safe to assume it's more than the average recreational boater would spend. I'm a bit surprised insurance companies don't require them for commercial dive charter boats. > It has always seemed to me that IWR is actually a reasonable alternative > for rec divers - we're less apt to have injuries other than the DCS, and > we're more apt to be diving in non-threatening environmental conditions. > But even 20 years ago, when I > took my rescue course, IWR was never to be mentioned even in a whisper. It's hardly mentioned even now, but you can find information on it if you look. Don't hold me to it, it's been a while since I studied this, but as I recall, IRW is recommended for conscious divers when the nearest medical facility with a chamber is more than an hour away, but only when there is someone to monitor the victim, an available full face mask, and an abundant supply of oxygen. For reasons I don't fully understand, IWR is not recommended when only air or nitrox is available. This seems odd to me. While clearly not as good as oxygen, IWR with either gas until the right resources can be obtained seems better than being dead. Lee > Brace yourself. http://www.sub-find.com/chambers.htm . I didn't see > anything about the chamber's cost, but I think it's safe to assume it's more > than the average recreational boater would spend. I'm a bit surprised > insurance companies don't require them for commercial dive charter boats. Yeah, pretty slick. And expensive looking. I queried the company, will report back if I get a reply. Not sure what you mean by "commercial charter". If yer talking a charter for commercial diving, both OSHA and insurance require it. But these days, you can't make a living commercial diving unless you are sat diving, so it's moot. If ya mean rec dive boat charters, the incidence of real DCS is too low, most insurance costs are borne by DAN, and DAN probably doesn't want the typical dive boat operator f.cking around with chamber treatment. The first time some yayhoo pumps ya up to 5 bar on BIBS because yer toes are tingly...... m > It's hardly mentioned even now, but you can find information on it if you > look. http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/iwr.html I know of an attempt at IWR in SC that had a very bad outcome because the instructor involved had absolutely no clue about what he was doing, so don't try this at home unless you have the right equipment, gas suply and knowledge. > I know of an attempt at IWR in SC that had a very bad outcome because > the instructor involved had absolutely no clue about what he was doing, > so don't try this at home unless you have the right equipment, A rope to let 'em down and pull 'em back up with, > gas suply one of Magilla's tanks, preferably with nitrox, > and knowledge. and stop letting out rope when the pain stops. >> I know of an attempt at IWR in SC that had a very bad outcome because >> the instructor involved had absolutely no clue about what he was [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > and stop letting out rope when the pain stops. Add Support diver, FFM at least for the oxygen part, beverages ("camel bag"), thermal comfort, supply hose... Tables usually schedules for 6 hours...would seem interesting in some tidal waters. The problem with non-oxygren recompression: You have to get the pressure start bloodflow past bubbles, which means, you have compress to shorten oblong bubbles first, along their axis, before even further compressing them from a round shape to a small enough size to allow blood passage. All while at the same time you are further saturating and to face a decompression with already damaged tissues... Matthias >>> I know of an attempt at IWR in SC that had a very bad outcome because >>> the instructor involved had absolutely no clue about what he was [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Matthias Personally, I don't think a FFM is a good idea for anyone who has never used one, in spite of the apparent safety feature, especially if yer going to try to re-hydrate them ("beverages"). Not 6 hours in the water. The old Navy IWR routine was the most conservative: pure O2 at 30' for an hour to 1 1/2 hour, depending on symptoms, then 20' for an hour and 10' for an hour, followed by 3 hours O2 on the surface. Still, 3 1/2 hang time is a long long long time. And that's a lot of O2, too. At least 200 cf, depending on how stressed the diver is. Non-O2 IWR might be a waste of time, but I'd rather be hanging on nitrox than laying on the deck squirming. The old time commercial divers would drop until the pain stopped, then work up very slowly. When the pain started again, drop six feet and repeat. Not very scientific, but an awful lot of divers got to the surface that way. m >>>> ........... >>>> the Doria is, without on site access to a chamber. You'd think a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> anywhere else. If not, you're looking at another hour, give or take, >> to reach a medical facility that does. ............. >> Lee >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > But even 20 years ago, when I took my rescue course, IWR was never to be > mentioned even in a whisper. Or as verrry bad... AFAIR there was a supplier of portable inflate ones, made of kevlar fibres, with a set of stabilizing rings. I really would appreciate a link to this or something. We discussed this lately with Dr. van Laak of the SchiffMedInst in Kiel. Anyone knows? Matthias Voss napisal(a): > >>>> ........... > >>>> the Doria is, without on site access to a chamber. You'd think a [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > SchiffMedInst in Kiel. > Anyone knows? http://www.sub-find.com/chambers.htm Matthias Voss napisal(a): > >>>> ........... > >>>> the Doria is, without on site access to a chamber. You'd think a [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > SchiffMedInst in Kiel. > Anyone knows? http://nautilussystems.com/ it's the same http://www.nonstopyacht.com/static/browse/session/Product/View/NUS&2DGSE&2Dport.htm > The discusion of boats for the Doria has come up before. On of the > questions, which I don't think has been considered by any of the boats that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to a chamber. You'd think a boat specializing in such dives would at least > have one of the portable ones. A friend of mine was on a Seeker AD trip where they did an IWR on a bent diver, and used everyone's gas. There were no refunds or compensation for the gas. > A friend of mine was on a Seeker AD trip where they did an IWR on a > bent diver, and used everyone's gas. There were no refunds or > compensation for the gas. There's a time to worry about the cost of gas and a time not to. Lee >>I'm reading Shadow Divers by Robert Kurson....I had the same thought. > If someone is diving the Dorea and the choice of boat charter makes a > difference in whether they can manage that dive safely, then they > shouldnt be diving the Dorea. End of story. > I used to dive mostly off the Wahoo, but I wouldnt put my life in their > hands either. Have seen some stuff there that didnt exactly thrill me. > Never been on the Seeker. Wow.. the Wahoo. Well, Hank Garvin now owns the boat, and it is renamed the Garloo. I dove the Doria off the Sea Hunter III. Great crew. But then, I have been diving with them for years. Dove the Wahoo when Steve, Janet and Hank ran the boat. I got really pissed when Janet decided to do her 2 hour dive on the San Diego AFTER we had all finished our second dive and were ready to go home. Never went back. The Seeker, I believe, was sold. I vaguely rmember it going out, but then I haven't heard anything since. There are several boats that make the trip to the Doria every year. If you are willing to spend close to $1g (guessing for the fuel costs), then go for it. Post here in the spring and summer and I'll reply if I hear of anything. Side note. We spent approx 6 hours each night filling tanks. We went through 14 of those large O2 tanks, had our own haskel for draining everything out of them and used the boat's compressor for air. Triple filled trimix was brought on board by the divers. What was good on our trip is that after diving the Doria, we dove a couple of other deep wrecks on the way back home. >I'm reading Shadow Divers by Robert Kurson....I had the same thought. You're kidding, right? Someone suggested the book to me. It's supposed to be non-fiction, but the hype is so thick I couldn't wade through it. I wouldn't trust anything in that book. Take a short excerpt as early as page 3... You had to have steel balls to do what Nagle did in his heyday. In the 1970's and 1980's, SCUBA was still rudimentary, not much advanced past 1943, when Jacques Coustau... [By the 70's, the old dual-hose regulator was pretty much a thing of the past, some of the regulators on the market met the current top U.S. Navy standard for work of breathing at depth, and submersible tank-pressure gauges became available. Before the mid 70's, even most rental equipment had them. We continue on to later in the same paragraph] ...Nagle and the sport's other kings might descend to 200 feet or deeper, virtually begging the forces of nature to flick them into the afterlife... [Standard U.S. Navy dive tables, available in your local SCUBA store before 1970, covered depths to 190 feet. You might have to buy a NOAA manual or a book to get the Navy tables that covered depths to 300 feet.] That book was about the biggest waste of my book budget in a long time. SignatureRon (user ron in domain spamblocked.com) Can't argue with the hype and yes it's a non-fiction book. The main story line is not about diving but about how they discovered an unknown U-Boat and how they did the research to identify the boat. As for "trusting" what's in the book I don't think the author intended it to be a guide for wreck diving. As for dangerous I think the fact that more than 50 divers having been lost diving the Andria Doria is a pretty good indicator of how dangers it is. Chris > >I'm reading Shadow Divers by Robert Kurson....I had the same thought. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > (user ron > in domain spamblocked.com) > Does anyone know who runs a dive charter to this wreck? > > Thanks Here's the trip for you: "Andrea Doria Expedition July 20-23 "Join famed wreck divers and expedition leaders Joel Silverstein and famed Doria wreck diver Capt. Gary Gilligan aboard the M/V John Jack for an oustanding visit to the famed shipwreck Andrea Doria." http://tdl.divebiz.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=101 898&zenid=54a16660ec9cdbb96dbbab85247cba28 With Silverstein and a guy named Gilligan, what could possibly go wrong? > With Silverstein and a guy named Gilligan, what could possibly go wrong? Keyboard > > With Silverstein and a guy named Gilligan, what could possibly go wrong? > Keyboard And what a bargain at $3500 US. I cant imagine that *anyone* with a trimix shingle is sheltered enough to even begin to entertain taking a dive trip with Silverstein, let alone a trip to dive the Doria. For the few reading here that dont understand, start here; http://www.naui.com/quality_assurance.php#revoked Silverstein, Joel #17790 (Suspended: 6/18/2001, Revoked: 2 March, 2002) For the few reading here that don't understand, start here; http://www.naui.com/quality_assurance.php#revoked Silverstein, Joel #17790 (Suspended: 6/18/2001, Revoked: 2 March, 2002) Anyone know why his ticket was revoked? > For the few reading here that don't understand, start here; > http://www.naui.com/quality_assurance.php#revoked > Silverstein, Joel #17790 > (Suspended: 6/18/2001, Revoked: 2 March, 2002) > Anyone know why his ticket was revoked? Ethics. Write him and ask him, then write NAUI and ask them. Do a little research, particularly the techdiver archives. I am not what anyone could call an "unbiased" source. I loathe him. > > For the few reading here that don't understand, start here; > >http://www.naui.com/quality_assurance.php#revoked [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Write him and ask him, then write NAUI and ask them. Was this the deal with the Italians on the AD? If so, I think there was a lot on this NG. > > > Anyone know why his ticket was revoked?Ethics. > > Write him and ask him, then write NAUI and ask them. > Was this the deal with the Italians on the AD? If so, I think there was > a lot on this NG. Yeah, that was part of it. $130 trimix fills, etc. >>>>Anyone know why his ticket was revoked?Ethics. >>>Write him and ask him, then write NAUI and ask them. >>Was this the deal with the Italians on the AD? If so, I think there was >>a lot on this NG. > Yeah, that was part of it. > $130 trimix fills, etc. I vaguely remember that, and the Italians were none too happy with the trip and posted it. > >>Was this the deal with the Italians on the AD? If so, I think there was > >>a lot on this NG. > > Yeah, that was part of it. > > $130 trimix fills, etc. > I vaguely remember that, and the Italians were none too happy with the > trip and posted it. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.scuba/msg/b9b3d6361e911c8a?&hl=en There was a lot of it on several lists, including the tech list. If memory serves, they sued everyone involved, and Slobberstein got a little of it on NAUI. That was, I think, just the straw that broke the camels back. NAUI contacted me when I worked for Carmichael, for testimony it was my privelage to give. WOW this guy Silverstupid is disliked on two coasts! >> >>Was this the deal with the Italians on the AD? If so, I think there was >> >>a lot on this NG. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > NAUI contacted me when I worked for Carmichael, for testimony it was my > privelage to give. > WOW this guy Silverstupid is disliked on two coasts! > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>NAUI contacted me when I worked for Carmichael, for testimony it was my >>privelage to give. I knew Joel several years ago before he got "big". He wasn't pompous but did have his opinions and had no trouble expressing them. A bunch of us had a great time at his expense during a dive club meeting when he was giving a powerpoint thing. We were, lets just say, a little over the top. Drinking and "accidently" knocking over the empties by our feet whenever we could. Then... excusing ourselves to go the the bathroom. Then, come back with more beer to be emptied and dropped again. Joel was flustered to say the least. We had a great time laughing, snickering and being our usual fun loving selves. There wasn't much that could be done with us being we were the dive clubs officers. > For the few reading here that don't understand, start here; > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Anyone know why his ticket was revoked? Yeah, but, hey, they suspended Chuck Norris too, so what does that say? > For the few reading here that don't understand, start here; > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Anyone know why his ticket was revoked? Not enough of his students passed? > > Anyone know why his ticket was revoked? > > Not enough of his students passed? Passed or lived? Any idea? Now here is an example of ignorance amplified by cowardice. You have verifiable info, post it or go away. > For the few reading here that dont understand, start here; > http://www.naui.com/quality_assurance.php#revoked What did he do? V. >>Does anyone know who runs a dive charter to this wreck? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > With Silverstein and a guy named Gilligan, what could possibly go wrong? Everything which lacks the chance to go definetely wrong. Matthias >> Does anyone know who runs a dive charter to this wreck? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >With Silverstein and a guy named Gilligan, what could possibly go wrong? And that gets you into alt.humor.best-of-usenet Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > >With Silverstein and a guy named Gilligan, what could possibly go wrong? > > And that gets you into alt.humor.best-of-usenet Silverstein has to take Gingers place, although he wants to be Thurston Howell...
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