My last dive last year was December 31st at Nubble Light in York, ME.
The water temperature, depending on which computer you believe, was
either 34 or 36 degrees F.  (It was cool.  The starfish were an
incredible shade of bright purple!)

I routinely dive in water in the low 40's off MA, and am starting to
dive off NJ in similar conditions.  I learned to dive in Maine and dove
there for a few years year-round (in a wet suit at the time).  So I
think you can safely call me a cold-water diver with lots of cold-water
wetsuit time.

I'm pretty warm in my 7mm farmer john wetsuit.  I am somewhat warmer in
my trilam suit with thick fleece underwear and a thin wicking
under-underlayer, but I am *much* more comfortable.  The dry suit is
comfortable and warm in 40-45F water for at least an hour, and in the
mid-30's for at least half an hour.  (It would probably keep me warm
longer but that's as long as I've been in it before getting out of the
water.)

I haven't worn the wetsuit in over a year even in warm (70F) water.  The
wetsuit is backup at this point so far as I'm concerned.  YMMV.

John Eells

http://www.whitesdiving.com/index.php?id=41&cid=24 I have more than 1,000
dives in this suit, in water that varies from 60 to 36 degrees, averages 48
to 52.

http://www.whitesdiving.com/index.php?id=39&cid=207 this is the one I will
buy next, if I dont buy another polarflex.

I had a DUI CF200 crushed neoprene and now use a tri-lam.  I wish I never
sold my DUI.

Jay
http://www.divewithjay.com

In a trilaminate moisture condenses at the inside of the
shell and the outside of the undersuit.
This may create a nuisance when undressing.

With a compressed neopren suit, there is just a slight
overall dampness, an no such moisture condensation areas.

Divers of both suits are content with them.

Matthias

I don't know what the crushed neoprene is like but dive a tri-lam. (DUI
TLS350). I really like the suit and have varied the undergarments for temps
from 55 degrees down to 35 degrees. Tri-lam is thinner and dries more
quickly than neoprene (crushed or not). The only drawback I've heard is that
the tri-lam can be ripped easier so it might not be recommended for someone
who does a lot of penetration diving.

Nearly all of my diving is cold - not much time or $$ to get to warm
water.  And note that I have a total aversion to being cold.

After trying a number of options, both of the drysuits I currently use
are shell, because:
- neoprene compresses at depth, causing a pretty hefty loss of thermal
protection.
- neoprene compresses at depth, causing a huge buoyancy swing.
- neoprene is very buoyant at the surface and I hate wearing a ton of
lead.  I like NO lead, as a matter of fact.
- neoprene takes forever to dry.
- you can adjust your thermals to water temp in a shell suit.
- shell suits are easier and more compact to transport.
- most shell suits (the telescoping torso of a DUI for example adds
drag) are more trim underwater.
- you are less likely to feel the uge to use those stupid ankle
weights with a shell suit

*

DUI's compressed neoprene suits don't have the buoyancy issues.  I
don't know about crushed neoprene.

I used an Abyss tech (4mm compressed) for years, good suit.

I've a trilam now, more flexibility, faster drying, no buoyancy change.
The trilam is as warm or warmer *with the proper underwear* as the
neoprene.

On Oct 26, 7:21 pm, "Rick - BrethrenoftheCoast.net"
<n...@brethrenofthecoast.net> wrote:

I use a "cave cut" DUI TLS350, and have different undergarments for
different places. In cold water, I use a Weezle Extreme. In 72 degree
cave water, I use a polar fleece garment. I don't dive in cold water
much, but I have used the TLS in the wrecks with no problem, but I
didn't try to squeeze into tight places or chase lobsters.

My SO uses a DUI half trilam half compressed neoprene suit. She has had
issues with the compressed neoprene bottom becoming pourous and
leaking. She used it alot in the NJ wrecks and getting oysters in
Chesapeak Bay..

Another buddy has the CF200 and loves it. She dives the wrecks off NY
and NJ, and shredded a TLS before she bought the CF200.

Yet 2 more buddies use the DUI shell suit with the with the white dots.
It is tough as nails, but nowhere near as flexible as the TLS. For cold
water wreck diving I would look at this and also the one from Dive
Concepts made of the same stuff. The commercial divers in Charleston
really like the dive concepts one, but I don't like the boots on it - I
don't get the right fin feel in them. Dive Concepts are better at
making a suit fit than DUI.

I had a custom Whites trilam suit, but they must have made a mistake
and sent mine to the north pole, because I got Santa's. My experience
with them trying to straighten it out was not good, and I sold it on
ebay and bought the DUI. I can say that it never leaked a drop and took
some abuse. It would have been a good suit if they could make it fit
and kept their promises.

No matter which one, I would go with a shell suit - the neoprene ones
are cheaper and they work, but you do not have the flexibility of a
shell and you have that irritating buoyancy shift (which you know about
if you're diving a 7mm wetsuit).

snip

Rick, I've used two trilaminates for more than 800, mostly cold-water
open-water dives, in 11 seasons of diving year-round in the Northeast.

Trilaminates have my vote for many of the reasons cited by Al Wells and
James Connell. My suits happen to be DUI, a TLS 350 and a CLX 450, but
other brands deserve their fans, too.

I'd like to add to what James said about the warmth attained by using
the "proper underwear" because it's my feeling a lot of the drysuit
divers who get cold are simply using too little insulation, not
realizing they should be layering up extra insulation as needed. They
also try to use neoprene gloves or regular hoods, which allow those
areas to be the cold spots that eventually sap heat from the core.

For years, depending on water temp, I have used varying amounts of
polypropylene and Polartec garments that I purchased from Cabela's. For
about the same cost as dive insulation, this gave me dual-use garments
with more overall insulation. I also picked up a nice used Weezle
Extreme Plus that I like better for water below 40 degrees.

I LIKE to be REAL warm and, in really cold water (below 40 F), I will
use about two to three times the overall thickness of insulation
material compared to the typical 300 weight Polartec dive undergarment,
or its equivalent.

In the coldest part of the winter, I'll wear about 52 lbs of lead-
about 5 lbs more than the minimum I'd need to be neutral with the suit
vented as much as possible and tank empty. Some divers will try to
tweak their weights to the bare minimum, but I find I'm warmer with
that extra air for loft.

I go to these lengths to be extra warm because I'll often spend 1 1/2
to 2 hours in the water on each of a couple low-activity photo dives,
summer or winter. (It's a long drive and I like to get as much in-water
time as possible.)

To get to the main point, I made sure to choose a size and cut of
trilaminate suit that had enough room in it for the maximum amount of
insulation I would need, and cut so that extra insulation wouldn't
greatly reduce flexibility or range of motion. "Cave cut" would not
have worked for me. Nor will some of the other brands that appear to
emphasize near-perfect low-drag style that fits their basic "40 to 55
degree" undergarment snugly.

With such a setup, my drag is greater, for sure; my lead requirements
are high, definitely; but, I don't get cold like many other divers do.

In fact, the coldest dive I've done was 32 degrees saltwater, the
duration of which I extended, for the sake of experiment, to 1 hour and
55 minutes and was still very comfortable, except for slight coolness
of my feet (boots laced too tight) and lips that were getting numb.
That was with an undergarment of 100 weight polypropylene, a Weezle
Extreme Plus, and 4 layers of fleece placed over my chest, ice cap
underhood, and drygloves.

What I have found also makes a crucial difference is to make sure my
head, hands and feet are warm. A extra eight-inch neoprene "ice cap"
underhood (Henderson) keeps the cold water off everything except the
lips, which stay warm a long time because they are so highly
vascularized. Drygloves with extra room for a second polypropylene
glove liner keep my hands toasty (SI TECH). And, lastly, plenty of room
in the boots for air and some combination of two layers of wool,
polypropylene or Weezle socks.

Anyway, more info than you probably wanted, but it might be food for
thought.

HTH.

Dave C

PURE TALC: Source, supplier of unscented, oil-free, USP grade PURE
TALC, ideal for use on drysuit latex seals. If interested, please see
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