Scuba Forum / General / October 2006
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Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 24 Oct 2006 16:35 GMT I'm not sure who to make fun of, us or you.
There's just so much to work with here.
U.S. teacher exiled to Canada after sexual abuse conviction
Last Updated: Monday, October 23, 2006 | 7:42 PM ET CBC News An American teacher convicted of having sex with a 15-year-old student has been exiled to Canada as punishment in an unusual case that has immigration experts divided over its legality.
A U.S. judge gave Malcolm Watson a choice between serving as much as a year behind bars or agreeing to a three-year exile at his home in Canada. Watson, a 35-year-old former teacher at Buffalo Seminary in New York state, chose Canada.
Under the sentence for sexual abuse imposed by Cheektowaga town court, Watson can enter the United States only to report to his probation officer. Watson lives across the border in Fort Erie, Ont., with his Canadian wife and three children. His sentence stated Monday.
Robert Kolken, a Buffalo immigration lawyer, told the Toronto Star that exiling a citizen is unheard of.
"I don't see how a judge sitting in a criminal court in the U.S. can lawfully banish a citizen as a condition of sentencing," he said.
"The real issue is whether it's legal or not," he told the paper, adding that he wonders whether the sentence can even be enforced.
No assurances given
Erie Country District Attorney Frank Clark told CBC News the agreement was amenable to the state, but that no assurances were made to Watson.
"He asked us and the court for permission to serve his sentence while living with his family in Canada," Clark said.
"Our response was, 'We don't really care if you want to live in Canada. It's alright with with us, we don't know if it's alright with the Canadian authorities. You'll have to take your chances with them."
Watson's lawyer, Oscar Smuckler, told the Buffalo News he looked into the implications of the sentence and thought it "unlikely that Canada will do anything" to upset the arrangement.
Immigration lawyer Marshall Drukarsh agreed with Smuckler's assessment.
"If an individual is a permanent resident of Canada and he has been found guilty in the United States of a crime and the equivalent crime in Canada is punishable by a term of imprisonment at most of, say, five years, then his permanent resident status in Canada is not in jeopardy," Drukarsh said.
Still, it remains to be seen how Canadian authorities will react.
Citizenship and Immigration Minister Monte Solberg said that while he could not comment on the case because of privacy concerns, he could comment in general terms about how federal officials would deal with non-Canadians convicted of crimes elsewhere.
"If non-citizens pose a threat to Canada, we will do everything in our power to have that person removed as quickly as possible," he said in an interview with the Globe and Mail.
Citizen and Immigration spokesman Edison Stewart told the Star the Canadian Border Services Agency studies such situations on a case-by-case basis.
"Someone convicted of a serious offence would normally be barred from Canada. But every case must be examined as to the exact nature of the foreign conviction and its equivalency in Canadian law before a final determination is made by CBSA," Stewart said.
A CBSA spokeswoman told the newspaper she was not aware of Canadian pre-approval of the deal.
Different consent laws
Canada and the U.S. have different laws regarding sex with a minor, and Canadian approval for the deal may depend on whether Watson would have been charged with such an offence in this country.
In Canada, the age of consent is 14 years unless sex occurs during a relationship of trust or dependency - such as in a teacher-student relationship - in which case the age of consent rises to 18.
In June, the federal Conservatives moved to raise the sexual age of consent to 16 years from 14.
In New York state, the age of consent for male-female sex is 17.
Watson, described in media reports as a popular English teacher, pleaded guilty to having sex with a 15-year-old female student in a parked car in April.
According to the Buffalo News, the school fired Watson in April, after he had been suspended a month earlier for ignoring a previous warning to stay away from the student.
The girl's parents are reported to approve of the sentence because it means their daughter won't have to testify in public.
 Signature Popeye It was when Lucifer first congratulated himself upon his angelic behavior that he became the tool of evil. -Hammarskjöld www.finalprotectivefire.com
Danlw - 25 Oct 2006 04:00 GMT > I'm not sure who to make fun of, us or you. > [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > The girl's parents are reported to approve of the sentence because it > means their daughter won't have to testify in public. Maybe he agreed to bring some weed to his probation officer- who shares with the Judge--who already was smoking some.
Dan
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 25 Oct 2006 04:38 GMT > "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in > Maybe he agreed to bring some weed to his probation officer- > who shares with the Judge--who already was smoking some. Yeah, Dan, but, my head is still swimming here.
Who's the U.S. judge that let the statutory rapist go?
The age of consent in Canada is 14 nationwide???
They're going to let that guy in???
Are these people insane?
JOF - 25 Oct 2006 20:04 GMT > The age of consent in Canada is 14 nationwide??? > > They're going to let that guy in??? > > Are these people insane? Apparently he's lived in Canada with his family for a number of years and commuted to work in the States. There was a later story that said that the one you quoted was wrong in saying there was actual sex involved. Not sure any of that makes him a better person but it may help to explain the solution.
JF
Danlw - 26 Oct 2006 03:46 GMT >> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in >> Maybe he agreed to bring some weed to his probation officer- [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Are these people insane? Yes, I think they are. We have no "justice" anymore. But, I hear that Canadian weed is great. Have some, and you won't care anymore. But, ah, you will have to actually , ah inhale.... Dan
Scott - 26 Oct 2006 03:55 GMT > Yes, I think they are. We have no "justice" anymore. But, I hear that > Canadian weed is great. Have some, and you won't care anymore. But, ah, > you will have to actually , ah inhale.... Dan It aint "justice";
It's "just us".
Danlw - 27 Oct 2006 03:53 GMT >> Yes, I think they are. We have no "justice" anymore. But, I hear that >> Canadian weed is great. Have some, and you won't care anymore. But, ah, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's "just us". Therefore the quotation marks ;).
I would think that a bit of BC bud would be worth inhaling-- except for the pesky "whiz quiz" of course. There should be some around the sound from what I hear.
Dan
Greg Mossman - 26 Oct 2006 04:24 GMT > Are these people insane? You think that's bad?
"A Riverside County judge dismissed an indecent exposure charge against a woman who allegedly disrobed in front of a 14-year-old boy, saying the law applies only to men. Superior Court Judge Robert W. Armstrong said this week that the law mentions a person who "exposes his person." "Usually when a section proscribes conduct, it's 'his or her.' This one is not," Armstrong said. "It's gender specific."
"Alexis Luz Garcia, 40, of Corona, was cited for a misdemeanor in May after she allegedly gave the boy, her neighbor, a full-frontal view as he played basketball in the yard next door. The charge carries a maximum sentence of one year in jail and requires the defendant to register as a sex offender. Garcia had complained to the boy that he was making too much noise as he played. When he didn't stop playing, she went out onto her sundeck. "He looked up at her, she looked down at him, and she disrobed," Norton said. The boy ran inside and told his parents, who complained to Garcia. When she threatened to do it every time he played basketball, his parents called police, Wyatt said. The family has since moved out of the neighborhood."
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/inland/la-me-indecent21oct21,1,4536041.story?c oll=la-editions-inland-news
That means that women in California can go around lewdly exposing themselves to 14-year-old boys with impunity. How sick is that?
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 26 Oct 2006 14:17 GMT >> Are these people insane? > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > That means that women in California can go around lewdly exposing > themselves to 14-year-old boys with impunity. How sick is that? Unbelievable.
Matthias Voss - 26 Oct 2006 14:36 GMT >>sundeck. "He looked up at her, she looked down at him, and she disrobed," >>Norton said. The boy ran inside and told his parents, who complained to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Unbelievable. I'd guess if things ran well the boy might play in the leadues pretty soon.
Matthias
Lee Bell - 26 Oct 2006 15:17 GMT >> That means that women in California can go around lewdly exposing >> themselves to 14-year-old boys with impunity. How sick is that? It's completely ridiculous . . . that California 14 year olds should be so lucky, when Florida's aren't. I don't know about the other guys here, but I was reading Playboy, for the articles and jokes, of course, by the time I was 14. I find it hard to get excited (pardon the pun) about one that gets to see the real thing live.
Lee
JOF - 26 Oct 2006 21:12 GMT > "He looked up at her, she looked down at him, and she disrobed," Norton said. > The boy ran inside and told his parents, who complained to Garcia. When she [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That means that women in California can go around lewdly exposing themselves > to 14-year-old boys with impunity. How sick is that? Two things occur to me: 1. How ugly must she have been for him to report her? 2. What else did I miss by not growing up in California?
JF
Joe English - 27 Oct 2006 03:26 GMT >> "He looked up at her, she looked down at him, and she disrobed," Norton said. >>The boy ran inside and told his parents, who complained to Garcia. When she [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > JF Greg???
bob crownfield - 27 Oct 2006 15:36 GMT >> Are these people insane? > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > That means that women in California can go around lewdly exposing themselves > to 14-year-old boys with impunity. How sick is that? ask the 14 year old boys. it does depend on the woman, too .)
can you imagine the lawmakers making a clear stupid mistake like that? they were probably lawyers too.
Chris Guynn - 25 Oct 2006 14:48 GMT <snip>
> Watson lives across the border in Fort Erie, Ont., with his Canadian wife > and three children. His sentence stated Monday.
> "He asked us and the court for permission to serve his sentence while living > with his family in Canada," Clark said.
> Watson, described in media reports as a popular English teacher, pleaded > guilty to having sex with a 15-year-old female student in a parked car in > April. If I had sex with a 15 year old, I can tell you with a high degree of accuracy that my wife wouldn't be interested in me living with her (and the kids). I'm not sure if it's worse that we're letting the guy go, that Canada might take him in, or that his wife is willing to let him come home.
Lee Bell - 25 Oct 2006 18:01 GMT > If I had sex with a 15 year old, I can tell you with a high degree of > accuracy that my wife wouldn't > be interested in me living with her (and the kids). I'm not sure if it's > worse that we're letting > the guy go, that Canada might take him in, or that his wife is willing to > let him come home. Perhaps she just wants him in reach for a few minutes.
Personally, if my wife round out I'd had sex with a 15 year old in the parking lot, I'd ask for jail time before I'd ask to come home.
Lee
Galen Hekhuis - 25 Oct 2006 18:29 GMT >Perhaps she just wants him in reach for a few minutes. > >Personally, if my wife round out I'd had sex with a 15 year old in the >parking lot, I'd ask for jail time before I'd ask to come home. Personally, if my wife (best friend, brother, whatever) found out that I'd had sex with a 15 year old in the parking lot, I honestly think they'd be incredulous, and probably not believe it 'til they heard it from me, or had incontrovertible evidence (and even then some of them probably still wouldn't believe it).
If I'd actually had sex with a 15 year old in a parking lot, I can see asking for jail time before asking to come home. Actually, I'd probably be asking for mental hospital time too, as such a thing would be so foreign to the way I behave and contrary to what I believe that I would seriously wonder how I could accomplish such a thing.
Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net We are the CroMagnon of the future
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 25 Oct 2006 18:50 GMT >> If I had sex with a 15 year old, I can tell you with a high degree of >> accuracy that my wife wouldn't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Personally, if my wife round out I'd had sex with a 15 year old in the > parking lot, I'd ask for jail time before I'd ask to come home. Talk about being met at the door, pistol in hand...
Lee Bell - 25 Oct 2006 19:47 GMT >> Personally, if my wife round out I'd had sex with a 15 year old in the >> parking lot, I'd ask for jail time before I'd ask to come home.
> Talk about being met at the door, pistol in hand... That's the best that could happen. I don't even want to think about the worst.
Lee
Dillon Pyron - 26 Oct 2006 01:25 GMT >>> Personally, if my wife round out I'd had sex with a 15 year old in the >>> parking lot, I'd ask for jail time before I'd ask to come home. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Lee Cleaver, meet penis. Penis, meet dog bowl.
 Signature dillon
If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 26 Oct 2006 02:37 GMT >>>> Personally, if my wife round out I'd had sex with a 15 year old in the >>>> parking lot, I'd ask for jail time before I'd ask to come home. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Cleaver, meet penis. Penis, meet dog bowl. I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight, thanks.
Dillon Pyron - 26 Oct 2006 01:24 GMT >> If I had sex with a 15 year old, I can tell you with a high degree of >> accuracy that my wife wouldn't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Lee If Carol found out I had sex with a 15 year old, she'd be the doing time and I'd be at ground temperature.
 Signature dillon
If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it.
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