 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeArticlesDiving DestinationsLearning Scuba DivingMarine LifeMiscellaneousDiscussion GroupsGeneralScuba EquipmentScuba LocationsAustralian ScubaUK ScubaDirectoryScuba Clubs |
Scuba Forum / General / October 2006Huge threat to Palm Beach reefs brings me back to rec.scuba :-)
My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. I just found out that the town of Palm Beach is planning on a dredging project, one which could be more destructive to Palm Beach diving than any threat we have ever imagined. Most disturbingly, it will likely destroy the most beautiful and pristine of all the Palm Beach county reefs--specifically Horseshoe Reef. I will be trying to get local TV stations involved, to try and gain attention of the public, and to help "push" the Army Corp. of Engineers away from the permit...but for right now, rec.scuba could help with it's numbers, interest level, and support. According to the plan, a fine, "muddy" sand will be dredged from off shore and allowed to drift along the long shore current in the effort to create new deposits of sand along the beach. The grade of dredge dirt being considered for this project is much finer than the golden sands we know at Lake Worth Beach and is dark gray. Dredging and subsequent deposition of this grade of sand along our beach will lead to the destruction of the Horseshoe and Casino reefs. It will also make nesting more dangerous for sea turtles and cloud the waters used by Lake Worth swimmers and divers. In the long term, it may also adversely affect wave quality for surfers. Last year, the Lake Worth City Commission denied the town of Palm Beach the right to drive their trucks over Lake Worth's beach property for the purposes of delivering sand to their beachfront properties which border Lake Worth beach to the north and south. Since they were denied access, they have opted for offshore dredging. Apparently, the Town of Palm Beach believes it has the right to adversely impact our environment and quality of life in defiance of our wishes. For the moment, it seems our wealthy neighbors will do as they wish despite Lake Worth's objection to the project. It is hoped that the media and Palm Beach County's commissioners will respond to Palm Beach's threat to our reefs and beach, and compel the Army Corp of Engineers to refuse the permit for the dredging project. For the moment, the only recourse is through the Surfrider Foundation....visit http://surfriderpbc.org/ and you may be able to help. With that, how are all you solo diving, non-DIR guys doing ? :-) Regards, Dan Volker www.sfdj.com > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. Don't be silly. Several people have said nice things about you. I tried to correct them, but they just wouldn't listen. Welcome back. > With that, how are all you solo diving, non-DIR guys doing ? :-) We're all still here and all still diving. Lee Lee, it's great to hear from you again. I thought it was you protecting my back...it would explain that frequent shooting pain I get once in a while :-) In any event, I am doing a lot more freediving lately---I had been on a month long trip to southern Italy to bike ride, and saw some of the most awesome ocean I could imagine--I had to go out and pick up freedive gear ( since I had not brought mine..not to mention, the best stuff is made in Italy) ... I dove off of Tropea and Capo Vaticano...Finding a dive operator was ridiculous there----it seems like they go out only once in a while, and without ryme or reason. I had to hire a zodiac boat and driver to actually dive! Now back, I am freediving on Horseshoe and around Palm Beach--let me know if you want to do some spearfishing. We may only have a month or so before the filth running the town of Palm Beach destroys one of America's most beautiful coral reefs--horseshoe. Dive boats here should start doing Liquidation Sales, or Going out of Business Sales...on dive trips to this area... REgards, Dan > > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence.Don't be silly. Several people have said nice things about you. I tried to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Lee > Lee, it's great to hear from you again. I thought it was you protecting > my back...it would explain that frequent shooting pain I get once in a > while :-) No problem. Actually, I probably even said a few nice things myself. After all, you were the one that took the time to explain DIR stuff at Brownies. I'll never forget when I mentioned I knew you on line, they asked if I was gong to hit you before they told me you were upstairs. > In any event, I am doing a lot more freediving lately---I had been on a > month long trip to southern Italy to bike ride, and saw some of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > like they go out only once in a while, and without ryme or reason. I > had to hire a zodiac boat and driver to actually dive! Wow. Life is good. > Now back, I am freediving on Horseshoe and around Palm Beach--let me > know if you want to do some spearfishing. We may only have a month or > so before the filth running the town of Palm Beach destroys one of > America's most beautiful coral reefs--horseshoe. Dive boats here should > start doing Liquidation Sales, or Going out of Business Sales...on dive > trips to this area... Its been a long time since I've done any spearfishing locally, and even longer since I've done it freediving. I made another trip to the Dry Tortugas this year and did OK. It wasn't as good for fish as previous years, but we cleaned up on lobster. The crew let us fill their permits as well as our own. My buddy and I and another S. Florida team wound up with most of the extra lobster. We got enough fish, just not as much as in previous years. The fact that I didn't bother to shoot any red grouper was probably a factor. The fact that I lost my best spear and the fish when I shot the biggest black grouper I've ever had a shot at, definitely had a lot ot do with it. I shoot freeshaft and that sucker took my spear right into a hole and wedged himself in. I spent all my gas, literally, trying to get him back out. I checked my buddy's supply before deciding to keep trying to get the fish free. I surfaced on his alternate. I need to look through my messages and see if Ed Tichinor is working on this yet. He's the one that's done so much about the Delray sewage outfall and, more recently, worked to get something done about all the people anchoring on the reefs in Palm Beach County. I think I've seen something from him on it. If not, I'll forward your message to him. Perhaps he can add his influence to the pro reef mix. It's hard to fight Palm Beach money, but sometimes miracles do happen. Lee Thanks Lee. I have seen Ed is doing a huge job on the sewage outfall issue..I don't know if he is on the re-nourishment issue yet. As to freediving/spearfishing, I am looking into what would be the best boats to use here for horseshoe and nearby. Splashdown won't let spearfisherman shoot off their boat---I have a few friends with boats, but counting on private boat rides is not ideal either. Dan > > Lee, it's great to hear from you again. I thought it was you protecting > > my back...it would explain that frequent shooting pain I get once in a [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Lee > Thanks Lee. I have seen Ed is doing a huge job on the sewage outfall > issue..I don't know if he is on the re-nourishment issue yet. > As to freediving/spearfishing, I am looking into what would be the best > boats to use here for horseshoe and nearby. Splashdown won't let > spearfisherman shoot off their boat---I have a few friends with boats, > but counting on private boat rides is not ideal either. Hmmm. If Lynn won't let spearfishmen on the boat, I assume that means that she and Terry aren't the friends they once were? As far as I know, she only started allowing spearfishermen aboard after she married Terry. You're right about depending on private boats for spearfishing rides. Hell, I've got three of them and I don't even get to go. Actually, I quit spearfishing locally when it became obvious that there weren't as many of the fish I hunt as there used to be. It's been a long time since I've seen legal grouper at moderate depths, and I've only seen one hogfish big enough that I'd shoot it in the last few years. Interestingly, I ran into the hogfish off Hollywood on one of the very few dives that I took my speargun. My buddy, who is the head of a local police dive team, no longer dives just for the fun of it, but does enjoy hunting. Generally, he out hunts me by a bit. That day, I got my revenge. Other than the Tortugas trips, I can't remember the last time I took a speargun on a pay for the ride boat. It's entirely possible, I never have. Lee > > Thanks Lee. I have seen Ed is doing a huge job on the sewage outfall > > issue..I don't know if he is on the re-nourishment issue yet. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > she and Terry aren't the friends they once were? As far as I know, she only > started allowing spearfishermen aboard after she married Terry. Lee, While Terry is/was a big time commerical spearfisherman, Lynn is vehemently against having divers shoot on her boat. I think she feels too many scuba divers see us as "shooting bambi", and this makes her unwilling to allow even responsible hunting--even my brand of several boat dives without pulling the trigger kind of restraint :-) > You're right about depending on private boats for spearfishing rides. Hell, > I've got three of them and I don't even get to go. Actually, I quit [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > for the fun of it, but does enjoy hunting. Generally, he out hunts me by a > bit. That day, I got my revenge. I have seen a few decent size hogs on horseshoe..but each time was on Lynn's boat, meaning I could only point my finger at them....@#@#% I was at the Wet Pleasures Dive shop in Lantanna 2 days ago, and saw a catalog page for a 2 seater kayak with a hard bottom, that takes an outboard motor...in other words, I could cartop on my Honda Element to the Lake Worth beach, carry it to the unguarded beach side of the beach ( north side) and launch....Horseshoe would be less than 3 minutes out. As a kayak, it would be almost as easy to tow for a diver as a float ball...I am seriously considering one of these right now. If so, I will often have room for one passenger :-) Regards, Dan Hi Dan, Welcome back! > Lee, it's great to hear from you again. I thought it was you protecting > my back...it would explain that frequent shooting pain I get once in a > while :-) Rubber boots on your tanks would cure this ;-) > In any event, I am doing a lot more freediving lately---I had been on a > month long trip to southern Italy to bike ride, and saw some of the > most awesome ocean I could imagine--I had to go out and pick up > freedive gear ( since I had not brought mine..not to mention, the best > stuff is made in Italy) ... I dove off of Tropea and Capo > Vaticano.. We might have met there in August last year. I have been with S/S Florette, the only existing Brigantine, starting tours from Vibo Valentia Harbour, to Eolien Archipelago, Capri, Ischia, Malta, Gozo, Sicily. Some of the best diving worldwide, I guess. BTW, beach reconstruction like that won't work. The curents will steal the sand. We Germans have experience because of our efforts to defend the Isle of Sylt coastline. Greets, Matthias > Hi Dan, > > Welcome back! Yes, welcome back Dan. > BTW, beach reconstruction like that won't work. > The curents will steal the sand. Especially since they're using extreme fines, as these will stay suspended much longer (ie, far too long to settle where they want them to): it might serve to change topology, but it will be indescriminate. The fastest way to kill a living reef --- and to make the area a wasteland -- is to cover hard surfaces with soft mud. You might want to point out to them that other "good ideas" from the past (such as this tire reef) now are recognized as huge mistakes and are expensive to remediate: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15560115.htm Petition to have them put up a Bond to pay for remediation for WHEN (not if) their plan fails and causes environmental damage. Afterall, if they're so confident it will work as planned, they can't be opposed to buying insurance, eh? -hh > Petition to have them put up a Bond to pay for remediation for WHEN > (not if) their plan fails and causes environmental damage. Afterall, > if they're so confident it will work as planned, they can't be opposed > to buying insurance, eh? > > -hh The beach renourishment projects ARE remediation. Each project comes with a detailed plan, mostly boilerplate identical to every other plan, available from ACE. The plan is then incorporated into the permit. These plans have never been challenged, because no one, especially not divers, actually gives a sh.t. All this indignant blahblah on newsgroups makes folks feel good, but the fact is that none of you (Rick Simms and bullshark excluded) cares enough to take even the slightest action. ACE has a permit to kill a limited number of turtles. ACE has a permit to generate specified turbidity levels. ACE has never been asked to include mollusks in its impact statement, not even the protected S. gigas. Because none of you really give a sh.t, and none of you are willing to get off yer dead a.ses and do anything. Bitch a little, show a little outrage, but don't let any of this affect yer wallet. What the f.ck, when the Boynton reefs are gone we can always move to Australia. Reef Rescue, which is one person, Ed Tichenor, has focused on the only effective way to save our reefs: enforcement of existing laws and permits. He has prevented renewal of the Boynton/Delray outfall permit and is preparing to sue for enforcement of permit and Clean Water Act provisions. He has monitored turbidity levels, reported violations, and stopped (OK, temporarily) dredging operations. He has organized the DEP and FFWCC to write regulations and enforcement plans to prevent anchoring in the reefs. He has done all this and a lot more with his own funds and small donations of money and time from a few friends. And I know who has helped, and none of you posturing motherf..kers are on the list. So either shut the f.ck up or go to http://www.reef-rescue.org/ and put yer money where yer mouth is. m ps - don't take this persoanlly, hugh, yer just the trigger. Hi Mathias, Thanks for the welcome. I would have loved to do some diving off the S/S Florette....I will be going back next year in may for 3 or 4 weeks...majority for cycling, but I could do a week perhaps on the Florette if it is diving intensive, and if I could do alot of freediving ( and at least some spearfishing !) . Please give me alot more details on this! I can't believe how lame the dive store based trips are run in Tropea and surrounding areas...Mondo Blu was never open, even though the door indicated it "would be", and the others would take phone calls, but just say they would call me when they were next going out....they would not know till the last minute. I look forward to hearing more from you. Regards, Dan Volker > Hi Dan, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Greets, > Matthias >My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years >now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. Yup, welcome back. >I just found out that the town of Palm Beach is planning on a dredging >project, one which could be more destructive to Palm Beach diving than [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Lake Worth swimmers and divers. In the long term, it may also >adversely affect wave quality for surfers. Um, why isn't the EPA involved? And, if the turtles are an endangered species, I would imagine that the appropriate authorities there would/should be involved. >Last year, the Lake Worth City Commission denied the town of Palm Beach >the right to drive their trucks over Lake Worth's beach property for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >http://surfriderpbc.org/ >and you may be able to help. What can I do? Petition, phone call, letters, money? >With that, how are all you solo diving, non-DIR guys doing ? :-) Still alive and bitching. >Regards, >Dan Volker >www.sfdj.com  Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > >My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > >now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence.Yup, welcome back. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > species, I would imagine that the appropriate authorities there > would/should be involved. Hi Dillon, As far as I can tell, the endangered status of turtles helps us in the nesting season--but it's about over now. The palm Beachers now think they have a big window. And gettig the EPA to do even the most obvious parts of it's job are hard enough. From what I've heard about the fight Ed has been having getting the EPA to deal with illegal sewage dumping by the city of Delray Beach, its been a huge time and money drain for him---and you would think this would be somethig the EPA would rush to be involved with. Like too many of our government agencies, they are lots of show, but not much go.... Regards, DanV > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. I dont think you will find one here matching that description. Welcome back. > I just found out that the town of Palm Beach is planning on a dredging > project, one which could be more destructive to Palm Beach diving than [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > http://surfriderpbc.org/ > and you may be able to help. We have the same sh.t (pun intended) going on here, in a different way. One bunch of wealthy waterfront land owners want to stop the ferries that move people around the sound because they claim the wake is eroding their waterfront. Nevermind the millions of working people who depend upon the transportation of the ferries, nevermind the pollution spared by the millions of miles not driven by commuters, the waves are hitting my beach and I dont like the noise of the ferries. They will get shot down in flames, but until they do, the tax payers have to pay lawyers to argue it all in court. The other issue is that people who buy vacation property here lie on their permits, like syaing that the septic system will only be used by 4 people for three months. Then then move here permanently, dont upgrade the septic, with the predictable result. Our neighborhood has 8 to 12 regulars year around, but for three months each year, there are 75 to 80 people living here. The sepitcs cant handle the influx, the canal gets polluted, low dissolved oxygen is the result, and fish die by the thousands. Several of the beaches were closed here due to e. coli contamination, and there were sever shell fish closures as well. Love to contribute to yours, but we have a battle of our own to worry about; http://www.hoodcanal.washington.edu/ http://www.hcseg.com/x204.xml > With that, how are all you solo diving, non-DIR guys doing ? :-) <cough> > > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence.I dont think you will find one here matching that description. > > Welcome back. <snip> Hi Scott, Glad to see you are still here fighting the good fight :-) With all the time elapsed, I imagine you have turned popeye into a GUE instructor by now..right ? Sorry to hear about the Hood Canal issue. Almost everywhere you look, decisions are being made that hurt the public, for the benefit of a few. At least we had many decades of awesome diving. Some of the kids coming in to this now will be lucky to have a fraction of what we did. I will do what I can for now, and if it does not work, I'll be traveling farther for diving, and doing more cycling and mountain biking. The scum from Palm Beach can't easily mess up the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina :-) Regards, Dan > Love to contribute to yours, but we have a battle of our own to worry about; > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > With that, how are all you solo diving, non-DIR guys doing ? :-)<cough>- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - > > > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > > > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence.I dont think you will find one here matching that description. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > With all the time elapsed, I imagine you have turned popeye into a GUE > instructor by now..right ? Hah! Hardly. He does fine at what he does. > Sorry to hear about the Hood Canal issue. Almost everywhere you look, > decisions are being made that hurt the public, for the benefit of a > few. It is typical. If they can sit on their porch, look out over the canal and not see anything bad, it is all good. > At least we had many decades of awesome diving. Some of the kids coming > in to this now will be lucky to have a fraction of what we did. > I will do what I can for now, and if it does not work, I'll be > traveling farther for diving, and doing more cycling and mountain > biking. The scum from Palm Beach can't easily mess up the Smoky > Mountains of North Carolina :-) Problem is after they f.ck up their new locale, they bitch about it being "not like it used to be" and move on to trash the next. Those of us who give a sh.t just have to get more active and more noisy, and make sure our "representatives" here from us. In light of the upcoming elections, shitbags from both sides are hopping on the "Save the Canal" band wagon and promising to "do better." Scum of the earth. They are going to do whatever gets them the most money, period. > The other issue is that people who buy vacation > property here lie on their permits, like syaing that > the septic system will only be used by 4 people > for three months. > Then then move here permanently, dont upgrade the > septic, with the predictable result. What type of septic system are they using over there? The house that I owned over in Slidell had one of the aerobic septic systems (i.e. no field lines)... It output clear water with no smell to it whatsoever... I think all my neighbors had similar systems... Some let the outflow go into the local ditches where it dried up readily enough... Some had sprinkler systems where it kept their yard watered... >> The other issue is that people who buy vacation >> property here lie on their permits, like syaing that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >into the local ditches where it dried up readily enough... Some had >sprinkler systems where it kept their yard watered... then there's the Lectra-San http://www.raritaneng.com/products/waste_treatment/lectrasan.html evaluation at: http://www.mfe.govt.nz/publications/water/lectrasan-report-jun02.html It isn't perfect, but if minimal discharge is the game, the technology is certainly there. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net We are the CroMagnon of the future > then there's the Lectra-San > http://www.raritaneng.com/products/waste_treatment/lectrasan.html I have to wonder how large the lots are over there where Scott is talking about... That would effect the size of a field line type septic system, but it doesn't effect the aerobic type septic systems as far as I know... They don't need much of area -- considerably less than the field line type of system and as such, you don't need to deforest part of your property if that is a concern... Supposedly they are more expensive, but I would think that the increased cost of the air pump would be offset by not needing to dig up the property and put the field line down... If you're going to be putting a sprinkler system in your yard anyway, you might as well get some use out of the water that you would normally just let drain away... >I have to wonder how large the lots are over there where Scott is >talking about... That would effect the size of a field line type septic [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >yard anyway, you might as well get some use out of the water that you >would normally just let drain away... When I lived in Hattiesburg I rented a place connected to an aerobic septic system. The whole mini development was. There wasn't enough suitable land for a traditional system. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net We are the CroMagnon of the future > When I lived in Hattiesburg I rented a place connected to an aerobic septic > system. The whole mini development was. There wasn't enough suitable land > for a traditional system. The lot that my house was on over in Slidell was a bit over an acre... Big enough for a traditional field line I suspect, but you would have had one area of the yard that was constantly moist and ruts in it every time you drove your mower over it... I had never even heard of an aerobic septic system prior to the purchase of that house... I had grown up on a ranch where a traditional septic system was used, so I was well aware of the large moist area that could result from one... I was quite surprised to see how clear the water was upon exit from the aerobic system -- enough so that unless something better comes along, I suspect that I'll use it for my next house which is unlikely to be so near a city that sewer and water is provided by them... The added benefit of being able to keep your lawn watered for no real extra cost is definitely a benefit... Of course, I'm saying this right now as we've had over 5" of rain within the last 2 days, so my yard definitely doesn't need any extra water right now... Prior to this though, it had been a bit dry... Hell, some parts of the country don't even get 5" of rain in a *year*... > For the moment, it seems our wealthy neighbors will do as they wish > despite Lake Worth's objection to the project. It is hoped that the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Dan Volker > www.sfdj.com Surfrider is involved, but not accomplishing much. Give your support, time, and money to Reef Rescue. http://www.reef-rescue.org/ Mike, It's almost good to hear from you as well :-) Are you still going out on Splashdown, or are you on a different boat---last few times I've been out with them I did not see you. Regards, DanV > > For the moment, it seems our wealthy neighbors will do as they wish > > despite Lake Worth's objection to the project. It is hoped that the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Give your support, time, and money to Reef Rescue.http://www.reef-rescue.org/ > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. Yeah, left me in a definite minority here. :-) Good to see you here again. Curtis > > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. Yeah, left me in a definite minority here. :-) > > Good to see you here again. > > Curtis Curtis, How's it going? Where are you diving these days? DanV > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. <snip> > With that, how are all you solo diving, non-DIR guys doing ? :-) Hi Dan, Welcome back! Dennis On Oct 16, 9:54 pm, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkm...@ever.invalid> wrote: > > My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years > > now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dennis Hi Dennis, Thanks for the welcome. I'll also add that I am NOT looking to get involved in huge arguements in this new "incarnation". :-) REgards, DanV > On Oct 16, 9:54 pm, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkm...@ever.invalid> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Thanks for the welcome. I'll also add that I am NOT looking to get > involved in huge arguements in this new "incarnation". :-) Then stay out of the political/gun-control discussions :-) > REgards, > DanV Dennis >My apologies for not being active on rec.scuba for several years >now--though many old timers have no doubt enjoyed my absence. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >now, rec.scuba could help with it's numbers, interest level, and >support. Hey Dan, how the hell have you been. It's been so long it feels like I never even knew you. Glad to see you back! I'm here all week. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.