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Scuba Forum / General / September 2006Certifications..
What is the difference between the two main agencies PADI, SSI and their certifications? I know that PADI is the biggest and most popular based on all the marketing stuff that we have to go through in the classes. Most of the stores around here are PADI agencies and there is only one SSI. I have not foundaNAUI. Why is that ?? It also seems to be quite common and fast to become a PADI MD in a short time vs a SSI but I maybe wrong. And if I want to get AOW certified by SSI, can do it with an PADI OW card ? Or do I need to get SSI OW certified too ? I even overheard that the AOW requirements are different: 5 dives for PADI and 12 dives for SSI, is this still true ?? If so, I rather have the SSI experience. I need some background here and your experience.. and thank you guys. > What is the difference between the two main agencies PADI, SSI and > their certifications? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > have the SSI experience. > I need some background here and your experience.. and thank you guys. Some people would consider PADI and NAUI the two main agencies, but I don't know the actual numbers. Most of us agree that it's the instructor that matters most. We also agree that student quality and participation is a major factor. Many instructors teach more than one agency. I have cards from 5 different agencies, and never saw much difference in the quality from one to another. A lot of people pick on PADI as being too large or commercialized, but no numbers or factual evidence support that premise.  SignaturePopeye It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle www.finalprotectivefire.com Tina wrote >> What is the difference between the two main agencies PADI, SSI and their >> certifications? I know that PADI is the biggest and >> most popular based on all the marketing stuff that we have to go through >> in the classes. Padi is the biggest. I'm not at all sure it's the most popular in anyone's mind but their own. >> Most of the stores around here are PADI agencies and there is only one >> SSI. I have not found a NAUI. Why is that ?? It also >> seems to be quite common and fast to become a PADI MD in a short time vs >> a SSI but I maybe wrong. And if I want to get > AOW certified by SSI, can do it with an PADI OW card ? I don't know why there are no NAUI shops in your area, but you've got the order wrong by a bit. NAUI was around before PADI. So was YMCA. If you have an Open Water I certification, you should be able to take the next most advanced course from PADI, NAUI or SSI without significant hassel. Unless they've changed things recently, that will not change until you get to the Search, Rescue and Recovery course level. SSI used to combine specialties differently. The SSI Master Diver certification also differs from the PADI's certification with the same name. >> Or do I need to get SSI OW certified too ? I even overheard that the AOW >> requirements are different: 5 dives for PADI and 12 >> dives for SSI, is this still true ?? If so, I rather have the SSI >> experience. You can find the requirements for each of the courses somewhere on line. It would not be a surprise if SSI required more dives than PADI, but I don't know that for a fact. It's been a long time since I took a course from SSI and I've never taken one from PADI. I did sit through one of the Open Water I courses. In my personal opinion, the bigger difference between PADI and SSI used to be their approach to teaching and the degree to which marketing is integrated what they do. PADI seems to focus more on classroom and acedemics, SSI seems to focus more on hands on experience. Both approaches can work. A lot depends on what's best for you. PADI integrates marketing into everything they do, in a big way. In my opinion, that gets in the way of their training. As you note, if you listen to them, they're the best and most popular. In my limited experience with the training and my more extensive exposure to their students and instructors, they tend to focus entirely on the PADI way to the exclusion of all other sources of information. I have a problem with that. I've learned more from people who were trained differently, than I have from any one agency. I often recommend cross fertilization. Take some courses from different agencies. Don't settle for one or the other until there's a good reason to. If you plan on becoming a professional, a DM or Instructor, you'll need to decide which agency, or agencies, you chose to identify with. Until then, you are free to experience as many agencies and styles as you like. Popeye responded: > Some people would consider PADI and NAUI the two main agencies, but I > don't know the actual numbers. Probably so. I don't know the numbers either. It is interesting that one of the first certification agencies in the country, YMCA, rarely gets mentioned. It's also interesting that none of the most advanced training agencies do either. > Most of us agree that it's the instructor that matters most. Yes we do. > We also agree that student quality and participation is a major factor. Yes we do. > Many instructors teach more than one agency. Yes they do. > A lot of people pick on PADI as being too large or commercialized, but no > numbers or factual evidence support that premise. A lot of people pick on PADI's corporate attitude more than anything else. You noticed their concentrated marketing in your own course, marketing that led you to believe they were the biggest (which they are) and most popular (which very much depends on who you talk to). Like Popeye said, a lot of people "pick on them." That does not match well with the "most popular" image they try to project. I suspect the more of the criticism is a reaction to their often stated opinion of their own superior quality, than to any real difference in the quality of the training their instructors provide. At any rate, the answer to your question is that, at this stage of your training, you are free to take courses from any agency that strikes your fancy and that at least one of us thinks that it's a good idea to get diverse training by sampling what is available from different agencies. Lee > Tina wrote > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > Lee I see that most of the instructors around here are contractors based on the need/season/etc and teach once every 2 months or so and they like scuba and get certifications and all that, but it does not mean that they enjoy teaching or they do it good. They do it to be part of the business, to pay for some of their new equipment, to be around the shop, the club, the friends, the trips, etc. For the shop is good because they do not need to hire full time professional instructors. For us the students, is good because is cheaper but then, we get what we pay for.. and is a rush class, literally a marathon class where we do what we are supposed to do, but not good enough and just once, and we are not very much supervised. And two classes at the same time in a small pool where you are bouncing literally into people, tanks, fins and the sides of the pool, there is no time or space to control and learn your buoyancy and nobody could explain me why I was floating more than others .. the instructor finally agreed that I need more weights but never found time to find them.. There is a lot of marketing about the club, the trips, the discount for the equipment, the discount for the PADI DM if we do it all the classes there etc.. so for the money is worth it to be in the same shop and go with all the classes there, but I just wonder if it is really worth it for learning purposes and if the others agencies/stores run the same way.. I will certainly like to try another agencies even if at the end it will cost me more. Thank you Popeye and Lee, good info ;- ) > I see that most of the instructors around here are contractors based on > the need/season/etc and teach once every 2 months or so and they like > scuba and get certifications and all that, but it does not mean that > they enjoy teaching or they do it good. That's pretty much true everywhere. Financially, scuba instruction is not a particularly rewarding occupation. It's either a sideline or a hobby with many instructors. There's good and bad in that. Many who care enough to teach in the first place, care enough to do their best. Unfortunately, not everyone's best is particularly good. There are a lot of instructors out there that don't have the experience to teach well and even more than don't have the gift for teaching. A really good instructor needs both. > For us the students, is good because is > cheaper but then, we get what we pay for.. and is a rush class, > literally a marathon class where we do what we are supposed to do, but > not good enough and just once, and we are not very much supervised. Not always. The difference is what we all mean when we say that the instructor is more important than the agency. There are several instructors, some of them seem to be a lot better than what you describe. > And two classes at the same time in a small pool where you are bouncing > literally into people, tanks, fins and the sides of the pool, there is > no time or space to control and learn your buoyancy and nobody could > explain me why I was floating more than others .. the instructor > finally agreed that I need more weights but never found time to find > them. A good reason to look somewhere else for your next course. > There is a lot of marketing about the club, the trips, the discount for > the equipment, the discount for the PADI DM if we do it all the classes > there etc.. so for the money is worth it to be in the same shop and go > with all the classes there, but I just wonder if it is really worth it > for learning purposes and if the others agencies/stores run the same > way. I think you know the answer to that one. > l certainly like to try another agencies even if at the end it will cost > me more. Go for it. > Thank you Popeye and Lee, good info ;- ) You are most welcome. Lee > What is the difference between the two main agencies PADI, SSI and > their certifications? For OW - SSI requires you to practice a buoyant emergency ascent, and their confined water training skills are structured differently. PADI's self-study materials are more refined, but the SSI ones are a bit more crunchy (less blather and less sales/marketing) For Con-ed - I think SSI's approach is far better. A lot more freedom to overteach, which is nice for specialties. > Most of the stores around here are PADI agencies and there is only one > SSI. I have not foundaNAUI. Why is that ?? Who knows. SSI is bigger than NAUI worldwide, I think. They do more certs than PADI in Australia and are really catching up in Asia as well. > It also seems to be quite common and fast to become a PADI MD in a > short time vs a SSI but I maybe wrong. IIRC, the MD standards are the same for both agencies. > And if I want to get AOW certified by SSI, can do it with an PADI OW > card ? Or do I need to get SSI OW certified too ? No you dont. > I even overheard that the AOW requirements are different: 5 dives for > PADI and 12 dives for SSI, is this still true ?? SSI AOW requires 4 full specialties (8 dives) and also requires the student to have 24 dives. This is a different course from the PADI AOW. SSI's equivalent to the PADI AOW is called the Advanced Adventurer - 5 dives. > If so, I rather > have the SSI experience. Vandit > IIRC, the MD standards are the same for both agencies. Interesting. I clearly remember a previous discussion on this topic that concluded that the SSI program required significantly more training and experience than the PADI version. I just checked the standards and it seems the situation may be reversed. The SSI program requires 4 specialties, a rescue certification and a minimum of 50 dives. The PADI program requires you to be at least 12 years old, hvae 5 specialties, a rescue or junior rescue certification, and a minimum of 50 dives. I'm not sure I believe someone should be a Master Scuba Diver at 12, but otherwise, the PADI program now seems to be the more stringent. That marketing department of theirs doesn't miss much. Lee > Interesting. I clearly remember a previous discussion on this topic that > concluded that the SSI program required significantly more training and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > someone should be a Master Scuba Diver at 12, but otherwise, the PADI > program now seems to be the more stringent. Hmm, I thought the SSI one was 5 specialties as well - I'll have to check. Although I cannot think of 5 specialties that would be worth learning - Nitrox, yes. SSI Deep and Wreck can be taught really well, if the instructor desires (unlike PADI Deep & Wreck). What else? Altitude is more of a practical thing, recreational Cavern is laughable... Boat, Drift, Night - dont make me laugh. I dont teach MD as I think the whole concept is a joke, pandering to people's egos. The only 2 recreational certs worth getting, in my opinionated opinion, are OW (AOW is only useful if done right after OW, IMO) and Rescue... and one reason why I like SSI is that you can do Rescue right after OW, if you so want. Vandit >> Interesting. I clearly remember a previous discussion on this topic that >> concluded that the SSI program required significantly more training and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > more of a practical thing, recreational Cavern is laughable... Boat, > Drift, Night - dont make me laugh. It's because we take things for granted because of our experience. Some people learn to dive without ever seeing saltwater, or a cattle boat. Have met most of them, I think, it seems to me that a good boat diving course is worth it's weight in gold. Hell, I bet I could come up with a decent class on "open ocean diving". > I dont teach MD as I think the whole concept is a joke, pandering to > people's egos. The only 2 recreational certs worth getting, in my > opinionated opinion, are OW (AOW is only useful if done right after OW, > IMO) and Rescue... and one reason why I like SSI is that you can do > Rescue right after OW, if you so want. There again, I think a -properly done- AOW class can be very beneficial. With the streamlined state of -everybody's- OW class, and the fact that many, if not most people live in environment that make anything but quarry diving an annual vacation type thing. A night dive, or a good underwater nav orientation can be a big help. > It's because we take things for granted because of our experience. This I agree with. However: > Some people learn to dive without ever seeing saltwater, or a cattle boat. > Have met most of them, I think, it seems to me that a good boat diving > course is worth it's weight in gold. Certainly a vast majority of people could benefit from knowing the protocol on dive boats. However, I think a good briefing by the divemaster on the boat, coupled with a few days of experience will cover most of the basics. Besides, virtually every region in the world has different procedures when it comes to boat diving anyway. Take another example - we get lots of Israeli divers in our neck of the woods. They are not used to the unpredictable currents we get here - so pretty much every new group gets a "drift dive" orientation. A couple of days of diving, and they are very well equipped to diving in a current - both with it and against it. We also get people with AOW cards who havent done night dives - a briefing and a dive, and they are good to go. Our divemasters do this, and it works quite well. > Hell, I bet I could come up with a decent class on "open ocean diving". Or diving in general :) > There again, I think a -properly done- AOW class can be very beneficial. <snip> Agreed. Especially for beginner divers. I wholeheartedly espouse that beginner divers do an AOW course soon after OW in order to learn more and refine the skills that they are *starting* to acquire after 4 OW dives. Virtually every one leaves a lot better diver after doing 9 dives on the trot when they start. However, take someone who has had 30-40 dives. By now, they've probably done 25-30m, as well as dived in currents, at night, etc. At this point, do they really get $200 plus worth of training? What I add to make an AOW course meaningful - safety stops in the blue, shooting lift bags, leading/navigating a full dive, gas planning including SAC calculations, etc. However, this is definitely *not* the typical AOW curriculum that is taught in most places. I guess my bias is that a lot of diving skills can be gained fairly easily without having to take a course. I see a lot of emphasis on course standards, getting this card and that card, and not enough on actually diving and experience. Cheers, Vandit > Some people learn to dive without ever seeing saltwater, or a cattle boat. > Have met most of them, I think, it seems to me that a good boat diving > course is worth it's weight in gold. We had this discussion before too. My response, a list of things people not familiar with boats should consider got published in somebody's club magazine and was imortalized in somebody's best of rec.scuba page. Anyone know where best of rec.scuba is these days? > Certainly a vast majority of people could benefit from knowing the > protocol on dive boats. However, I think a good briefing by the > divemaster on the boat, coupled with a few days of experience will > cover most of the basics. If we can find my previous response, I think you'll agree that there are several important issues that are not likely to be covered by the average dive briefing, even the average good one. It's exactly the kind of things a DM may not think to mention that could make a boat diving specialty worth taking . . . even by those who have done a lot of boat dives. > Take another example - we get lots of Israeli divers in our neck of the > woods. They are not used to the unpredictable currents we get here - > so pretty much every new group gets a "drift dive" orientation. A > couple of days of diving, and they are very well equipped to diving in > a current - both with it and against it. Good try, but it didn't work for a group of Texas Rescue Divers on Cayman Brac, including their instructor, and the current wasn't particularly strong. In their case, they managed to miss the boat on every one of the 4 dives we did. Sometimes, little things, the kind of things those of us that dive in the ocean all the time forget to mention, can be important. > We also get people with AOW cards who havent done night dives - a > briefing and a dive, and they are good to go. Our divemasters do this, > and it works quite well. I would think the things that make night dives so unique are not the kind of things a dive briefing would cover. I know that no amount of reading, listening or thinking about diving at night did it for me. The first night dive I did, on the other hand, did the trick. > Agreed. Especially for beginner divers. I wholeheartedly espouse that > beginner divers do an AOW course soon after OW in order to learn more > and refine the skills that they are *starting* to acquire after 4 OW > dives. Virtually every one leaves a lot better diver after doing 9 > dives on the trot when they start. I wholeheartedly espouse the need to put the open water and advanced open water courses back together. They used to be one course and, personally, I think they still are. Charge more if you must, but give the customer the whole product, not half of it. > However, take someone who has had 30-40 dives. By now, they've > probably done 25-30m, as well as dived in currents, at night, etc. At > this point, do they really get $200 plus worth of training? They're not diving according to standards (ducking as weaving). > What I add to make an AOW course meaningful - safety stops in the blue, > shooting lift bags, leading/navigating a full dive, gas > planning including SAC calculations, etc. However, this is definitely > *not* the typical AOW curriculum that is taught in most > places. It certainly isn't. Nice additions. > I guess my bias is that a lot of diving skills can be gained fairly easily > without having to take a course. I see a lot of emphasis on > course standards, getting this card and that card, and not enough on > actually diving and experience. I agree. Somebody else, however, ought to say "show me the statistics" about now. Lee > If we can find my previous response, I think you'll agree that there are > several important issues that are not likely to be covered by the average > dive briefing, even the average good one. It's exactly the kind of things a > DM may not think to mention that could make a boat diving specialty worth > taking . . . even by those who have done a lot of boat dives. True. But I find that if someone is doing only a couple of boat dives, then the normal boat briefing is sufficient. And if they are doing a lot of boat diving, then they pick up very quickly all the little things that they need to know. > Good try, but it didn't work for a group of Texas Rescue Divers on Cayman > Brac, including their instructor, and the current wasn't particularly > strong. In their case, they managed to miss the boat on every one of the 4 > dives we did. Sometimes, little things, the kind of things those of us that > dive in the ocean all the time forget to mention, can be important. Hmm, no idea what happened here, so cannot comment. > I would think the things that make night dives so unique are not the kind of > things a dive briefing would cover. I know that no amount of reading, > listening or thinking about diving at night did it for me. The first night > dive I did, on the other hand, did the trick. I agree - sorry, I didnt make myself clear: I meant have a briefing on signals, procedures, etc and then go dive. Does answering the Knowledge Review in the PADI manual add a whole lot more? Certainly not, in my opinion. > I wholeheartedly espouse the need to put the open water and advanced open > water courses back together. They used to be one course and, personally, I > think they still are. Charge more if you must, but give the customer the > whole product, not half of it. Agreed. I dont reallly see the point of the current split between OW and AOW. We offer AOW for $120, including all dives and gear rental, as a continuation after OW for people who are interested. Assuages my conscience a bit. > I agree. Somebody else, however, ought to say "show me the statistics" > about now. Heh, usually that is me... :) Vandit > True. But I find that if someone is doing only a couple of boat dives, > then the normal boat briefing is sufficient. And if they are doing a > lot of boat diving, then they pick up very quickly all the little > things that they need to know. Only a few things are critical, things like putting your weights on the deck, not the seat, and strapping your tank in place securely. Most of the rest involve consideration for others, things like keeping your gear within your space, setting up early if you can, to reduce conflict with those that can't or don't. A lot of this stuff comes only with experience or from someone with that kind of experience who thought about it enough to put it in writing and share it with others. >> Good try, but it didn't work for a group of Texas Rescue Divers on Cayman >> Brac, including their instructor, and the current wasn't particularly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> that >> dive in the ocean all the time forget to mention, can be important. > Hmm, no idea what happened here, so cannot comment. Easy explanation. The current was mild and the group of 6, including the instructor, had never been in anything but confined water. Their entire diving experience never exposed them to current. The believed, as deep down as possible, that if you start your dive moving directly north for x number of finstrokes, you can get back to the boat by swimming directly south the same number, so they did. Missed the boat every time. The first time, they missed it by so far that they ran out of gas and had to swim to it on the surface, against the current. Every one of them, this time not including the instructor (who I hope would have known better) had the PADI attitude that sometimes comes from the marketing hype mixed with many PADI courses. They simply could not believe that they, as Rescue Divers, didn't have the right skills for navigating in current. They didn't listen and, sure as anything, they went right back out and did the same thing the next day. After that, they were moved to the novice boat. A DM accompanied them on every dive for the remainder of their week. > I agree - sorry, I didnt make myself clear: I meant have a briefing on > signals, procedures, etc and then go dive. Does answering the > Knowledge Review in the PADI manual add a whole lot more? Certainly > not, in my opinion. Not in my opinion either. I was probably responding out of context. The only thing night courses taught me related to lighting, stuff like not shining mine in someone else's mask, or how to ensure you were visible if you came to the surface away from the boat. Nothing prepared me for the experience except the experience itself. I loved it. > Heh, usually that is me... :) Among others. >> True. But I find that if someone is doing only a couple of boat dives, >> then the normal boat briefing is sufficient. And if they are doing a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > or from someone with that kind of experience who thought about it enough > to put it in writing and share it with others. Surface signaling device, compass, lift bag/spool, gear prep in between dives, checking tanks before you leave the dock, seasickness remedies, chunk-blowing onboard, chunking in-water, fresh water conservation, mask bucket, camera bucket, various lines (tag line, deco line, ect), various ladders and boarding techniques, boarding the wrong boat, being stranded on surface till divers recover, marine head, dive bag spares, tank line, and even questions to ask the boat before you board, like if the have snacks and drinks. > Every one of them, this time not including the instructor (who I hope > would have known better) had the PADI attitude that sometimes comes from > the marketing hype mixed with many PADI courses. Check. There's a "PADI attitude" alright, but I'm not quite sure this was a description or an example of it... :-) SignaturePopeye It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle www.finalprotectivefire.com >> Every one of them, this time not including the instructor (who I hope >> would have known better) had the PADI attitude that sometimes comes from >> the marketing hype mixed with many PADI courses. > There's a "PADI attitude" alright, but I'm not quite sure this was a > description or an example of it... :-) Go back and read Tina's comments and see if you can't find it in there somewhere. Lee >> It's because we take things for granted because of our experience. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > divemaster on the boat, coupled with a few days of experience will > cover most of the basics. Sure, but that's more time than the class would take on that particular specialty, and me, I'd rather arrive prepared. (Or I'd rather -they- arrive prepared) Some people don't even have the concept that boat diving is different from anything else. > Besides, virtually every region in the > world has different procedures when it comes to boat diving anyway. Better yet for a class, to point out some differences. > Take another example - we get lots of Israeli divers in our neck of the > woods. They are not used to the unpredictable currents we get here - [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > briefing and a dive, and they are good to go. Our divemasters do this, > and it works quite well. But how many more didn't show up, because they didn't have any night diving orientation? Our local night diving class is in a mountain river, and we practice light changes, and navigation, drills in the dark like mask clearing. I doubt this goes on with the average boat night dive. You'd be surprised how hard it is for some people to find, in the pitch black, and then -turn on-, a back up light, especially with gloves in a brisk current. >> Hell, I bet I could come up with a decent class on "open ocean diving". > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > probably done 25-30m, as well as dived in currents, at night, etc. At > this point, do they really get $200 plus worth of training? I agree with you completely, but you should remember that 30-40 dives could take a year or two for some people. Those of us that dive a lot take that for granted. > What I add to make an AOW course meaningful - safety stops in the blue, > shooting lift bags, leading/navigating a full dive, gas planning [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > course standards, getting this card and that card, and not enough on > actually diving and experience. But in all honesty, if the training is good, it's time saver for some people, and, if guys wanna collect cards, it's no skin off my back just as long as they don't try to pass it off on -me- as experience. For all we bitch about people that never dive again, we then bitch about people who take fast track classes. It seems we just bitch about everything. The surprising part is, we bitch about the things we, ourselves once did. :-) SignaturePopeye It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle www.finalprotectivefire.com > But in all honesty, if the training is good, it's time saver for some > people True. On reading your post, I didnt really find anything I disagree with (must be a rec.scuba first). It certainly is possible to use a *properly-taught* course to accelerate in the learning curve. Rethinking, I guess I personally think that some of this acceleration isnt worth the money - but that is my opinion. > and, if guys wanna collect cards, it's no skin off my back just as > long as they don't try to pass it off on -me- as experience. True dat. I remember a discussion on Scubaboard where people were gasping in shock and horror at a 12 or 13 year old Master Diver. Like it really matters. > For all we bitch about people that never dive again, we then bitch about > people who take fast track classes. It seems we just bitch about everything. The > surprising part is, we bitch about the things we, ourselves once did. :-) I wonder if a lot of it is due to innate competitiveness. Diving being a non-competitive sport, how do we measure who is better? Failing a normal yardstick for competing, we make up our own. This ranges from simple to subtle - in no particular order, things like air consumption, who's gone deeper, who's more experienced, who's better trained, who dives in tougher conditions, etc. People *have* to compete, I think... it is our nature. > It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to > entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle I like this one! Vandit > I wonder if a lot of it is due to innate competitiveness. Diving being > a non-competitive sport, how do we measure who is better? Failing a > normal yardstick for competing, we make up our own. Ha. You just think it's non competitive. > This ranges from simple to subtle - in no particular order, things like > air consumption, who's gone deeper, who's more experienced, who's > better trained, who dives in tougher conditions, etc. People *have* to > compete, I think... it is our nature. See, I told you so. Lee > Ha. You just think it's non competitive. PADI says so in their video. Must be true. :) Vandit > Although I cannot think of 5 specialties that would be worth learning - > Nitrox, yes. SSI Deep and Wreck can be taught really > well, if the instructor desires (unlike PADI Deep & Wreck). What else? I think mine were Deep, Night, Navigation and Boat. Lee >>> Interesting. I clearly remember a previous discussion on this topic that >>> concluded that the SSI program required significantly more training and [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Hell, I bet I could come up with a decent class on "open ocean diving". An instructor can do just that. Submit a course outline to PADI and have a specialty issued per the outline. >> I dont teach MD as I think the whole concept is a joke, pandering to >> people's egos. The only 2 recreational certs worth getting, in my [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > A night dive, or a good underwater nav orientation can be a big help. >> IIRC, the MD standards are the same for both agencies. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That marketing department of theirs doesn't miss much. Off the top of my head, we did at one time compare several agencies on their divemaster requirements, and we found that while PADI allowed you to -begin- the program with fewer dives, we also found the required as many or more dives to -complete- the program as anyone else. We also deduced, IIRC, through accurate comparison that NAUI's rescue class was noticeably longer and had more requirements than anyone else's. I haven't looked for the thread yet. As far as 12 year old master divers go, we can laugh at them as easy as we laugh at the 40 yr olds. SignaturePopeye It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle www.finalprotectivefire.com > Off the top of my head, we did at one time compare several agencies on > their divemaster requirements, and we found that while PADI allowed you > to -begin- the program with fewer dives, we also found the required as > many or more dives to -complete- the program as anyone else. We probably did that too. In this case, however, we're talking about PADI's Master Scuba Diver versus SSI's Master Diver. > As far as 12 year old master divers go, we can laugh at them as easy as we > laugh at the 40 yr olds. And the nearly 60 year olds (me). Lee |
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