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Scuba Forum / General / October 2006Is diving dangerous?
This topic came up during the party. My response was "when done properly, no more so than many complicated tasks". Then I started thinking. My CFI had a student in his Citabria get into an inverted flat spin and hit the water a mile off the Pacific Palisades. His hangermate was a DC10 pilot for American who picked the wrong day to take off in Chicago. Two guys I climbed with a lot came unglued on El Capitan. Three guys I've raced all died on the track, including one in front of me. But diving? Lee, until we split a beer, I only know one person who's been bent. And the only guy I know who died while diving had a massive stroke at age 80, on the GBR. So, dangerous? Sure, if done wrong. But that applies to everything in life.  Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > This topic came up during the party. My response was "when done > properly, no more so than many complicated tasks". Then I started [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -- > dillon I agree, but your analogies may have been misleading, don't you think, since _general_ scuba diving doesn't usually involve such high levels of complexity and high risk. Plus, a diver can usually employ simple steps to save oneself. A better analogy might be the drive to the dive site. Or the drive home from the party. 8^) Dave C >> So, dangerous? Sure, if done wrong. But that applies to everything in >> life. Not quite. In most sports, the things that will kill you quick, if there are any, are obvious. In flying, you don't have to be real bright to know that falling out of the sky will hurt. In shooting, you don't have to be real bright to know that pulling the trigger while the gun is pointed at some part of you, is a bad idea. In climbing, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that falling a long way down will not be real great for your health. When driving, you know you don't want to hit something at high speed without a lot of training. What makes each of these sports dangerous is the less obvious things, the things that can kill you unexpectedly, the things you have to go out of your way to know and avoid. In flying, which is not one of my sport, a flat spin is probably one of those things that make the sport dangerous. I'm reasonably sure wind shear as you make your landing approach is another. In shooting, the possibility of a barrel blockage or multiple shots due to a damaged sear might qualify. I don't know what the unexpected risks are in climbing, but I bet there are some. In driving, not everyone understands the risk that your vehicle will lose contact with the ground due to nothing more than a little wind under it, or how steering changes at very high speeds. You get the idea. What makes diving dangerous is not the obvious, that you can't breath underwater, but the not so obvious, things like ascending while holding your breath, more nitrogen in your blood than your body can eliminate without bending you, the toxicity of oxygen above certain presures and what happens if, in trying to deal with it, you let the pressure of O2 in your system drop much below .16 ATA. Diving certainly can be done safely, as can all of the other sports we've mentioned, but each of them requires a bit more attention to less obvious details than, say, bowling. Lee > >> So, dangerous? Sure, if done wrong. But that applies to everything in > >> life. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Lee Wrong attribution again, Lee, but nobody's counting. 8^) My point was that scuba diving, in general, is not as complicated or as dangerous as the other activities mentioned by the OP. Plus, bad situations can usually be survived if simple steps are taken. Dave C >> >> So, dangerous? Sure, if done wrong. But that applies to everything >> >> in [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Wrong attribution again, Lee, but nobody's counting. 8^) Not so. He may not have seen Dillons OP but quoted yours anyway when answering his points by leaving in the *two* sets of chevrons. Nice try tho. LD. > Not so. He may not have seen Dillons OP but quoted yours anyway when > answering his points by leaving in the *two* sets of chevrons. Nice try tho. > > LD. You're right! Dave C >> Not so. He may not have seen Dillons OP but quoted yours anyway when >> answering his points by leaving in the *two* sets of chevrons. Nice try >> tho. > > You're right! It does happen occasionally. ;) LD. > This topic came up during the party. My response was "when done > properly, no more so than many complicated tasks". Then I started > thinking. FWIW, for better or worse, Scuba Diving gets groups by the Insurance Folk into a category of "Risk Takers". It has nothing to do (per se) with the risk of diving, but actually the (statistical aggregate) personality of one who chooses to scuba dive: they're more likely to engage in "risky" activities which would cause the Insurance company to have to pay off their Life Insurance Policy sooner rather than later. > But diving? Lee, until we split a beer, I only know one person who's > been bent. And the only guy I know who died while diving had a > massive stroke at age 80, on the GBR. I had a friend who died of a heart attack (alone at home) while he packing his dive gear to go on a trip ... half seriously, how should this one be counted? -hh > FWIW, for better or worse, Scuba Diving gets groups by the Insurance > Folk into a category of "Risk Takers". It has nothing to do (per se) > with the risk of diving, but actually the (statistical aggregate) > personality of one who chooses to scuba dive: they're more likely to > engage in "risky" activities which would cause the Insurance company to > have to pay off their Life Insurance Policy sooner rather than later. It is my opinion that we are risk takers. Seeking risky activities does not necessarily mean those risks are realized. Just consider the number of people here who have, over the years, admitted to being race car drivers, motorcycle drivers, motorcycle racers, sky divers, mountain and rock climbers, law enforcement officers, firemen and volunteer solidiers. Hell, take a poll of those in this group that still smoke if you want to know who the real risk takers are. So far, all of us have survived the risks we take. That does not make them any less risky or any more appropriate for those that don't understand the risks or can't adjust to avoid them. Lee > So, dangerous? Sure, if done wrong. But that applies to everything > in life. Certain endeavors are not very forgiving of mistakes... Certain types of dives are more unforgiving than others... I knew two other sailors while I was stationed in Orlando that didn't make it back from a cave dive... I wouldn't be surprised that I might have made the same mistakes that they made back then -- the only difference was that Darwin wasn't waiting there for me at the time... >> So, dangerous? Sure, if done wrong. But that applies to everything >> in life. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >made back then -- the only difference was that Darwin wasn't waiting there >for me at the time... rec.scuba lost a great guy by the name of Bill Maynes to a cave accident about 13 years ago (when we actually spent most of our time talking about scuba). He was in the cave with a student. I don't remember any of the other details. I've tried to find it in Google, but haven't ever had much luck searching for anything there. May of 93 if anyone wants to try. The only thing that saved my life in 1973 was an improved firesuit and the newly mandated fire bottles. It doesn't even take Darwin to snuff you out without mercy. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. From various archives: Published in the Tallahassee Democrat on 7/19/1993. The bodies of two cave divers were recovered Sunday afternoon, ending two days of searching at a sinkhole in Wakulla County.... According to (the Sheriff's Dept.), one of the bodies at Clearcut Sink was identified as Bill Mayne, 39, of Tallahassee....the (second) unidentified victim was a 29-year-old student at Florida State University (Ariel Goldberg). "We're still investigating the case, and the divers' equipment will be examined. We're also waiting on autopsies," (a spokesman) said. "When we find out further information, we will be able to comment more." Autopsies are scheduled for this morning at Tallahassee Memorial Regional Medical Center. Officials said both victims at Clearcut Sink had recently received their certification as cave divers. They had been expected to return from a diving expedition at 10:30 pm on Friday. When neither of the divers returned Friday night, a relative of Mayne's called the Leon County Sheriff's Dept.... Teams of divers, including volunteers, began searching for the two victims at Clearcut Sink at 10:30 am Saturday and continued until 8 pm. The search resumed at 9 am Sunday, and divers first located Mayne's body downstream, at a depth of 90 feet, and 550 feet inside a cave. (The spokesman) said divers did not bring Mayne's body to the surface until 5:30 pm, in order to avoid stirring up sediment on the bottom of the cave, which would have impeded the search for the unidentified victim. The unidentified FSU student was located 50 feet from a cave opening at Venture Sink, which connects with Clearcut Sink, at 5:30 pm. His body was removed from the water upon recovery. Officials said these were the first sinkhole deaths in the area since Parker Turner, a world record-setting cave diver, died at Indian Springs last year.... This started as a private e-mail that was copied, with permission, to rec.scuba on 8/17/1993. It's by Bill's brother Charlie Mayne. My brother was killed in a SCUBA diving accident on July 16th. He was a highly skilled technical diver with over 150 cave dives logged, twenty in the system in which the accident occurred. Evidently he and his dive partner (who was also a certified cave diver, but with less experience) became separated and Ariel became disoriented and got lost. Bill pushed it too far in trying to find him before starting out of the cave and ran out of air a few minutes before he could reach the additional tanks they had stashed on the way in to be used for decompression. Ariel also ran out of air before finding his way. I talked at length with the recovery team, who were friends of Bill and Ariel. There were no signs of panic or fear. The equipment was checked by the Navy and there was no malfunction. I believe that Bill died as he lived: aware, awake, and totally absorbed in what he was doing at the moment. Lee |
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