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Scuba Forum / General / September 2006One Million Ways to Die
One Million Ways to Die By Ryan Singel 02:00 AM Sep, 11, 2006 Sept. 11, 2001 was undoubtedly one of the darkest and deadliest days in United States history. Al-Qaida's attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center killed 2,976 people, and the country recoiled in horror as we witnessed the death of thousands of Americans when the towers fell. In the five years since that shattering day, the government has spent billions on anti-terrorism projects, instituted a color-coded alert system that has never been green, banned fingernail clippers and water bottles from airplanes, launched a pre-emptive war on false pretenses, and advised citizens to stock up on duct tape and plastic sheeting. But despite the never-ending litany of warnings and endless stories of half-baked plots foiled, how likely are you, statistically speaking, to die from a terrorist attack? Comparing official mortality data with the number of Americans who have been killed inside the United States by terrorism since the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma reveals that scores of threats are far more likely to kill an American than any terrorist -- at least, statistically speaking. In fact, your appendix is more likely to kill you than al-Qaida is. With that in mind, here's a handy ranking of the various dangers confronting America, based on the number of mortalities in each category throughout the 11-year period spanning 1995 through 2005 (extrapolated from best available data). S E V E R E Driving off the road: 254,419 Falling: 146,542 Accidental poisoning: 140,327 H I G H Dying from work: 59,730 Walking down the street: 52,000. Accidentally drowning: 38,302 E L E V A T E D Killed by the flu: 19,415 Dying from a hernia: 16,742 G U A R D E D Accidental firing of a gun: 8,536 Electrocution: 5,171 L O W Being shot by law enforcement: 3,949 Terrorism: 3147 Carbon monoxide in products: 1,554  SignaturePopeye You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. -Capone www.finalprotectivefire.com I'd just as soon have people remain worried. Fewer people flying = less demand = cheaper tickets = more holidays for Bryan. Yes, I'm selfish. Bryan Bryan Heit <bjheit@ucalgary.ca> sputtered: > Yes, I'm selfish. You're also still a clueless grad student. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Bryan Heit <bjheit@ucalgary.ca> sputtered: > >> Yes, I'm selfish. > > You're also still a clueless grad student. Oh look, the squeaky wheel is back. > I'd just as soon have people remain worried. Fewer people flying = less > demand = cheaper tickets = more holidays for Bryan. > > Yes, I'm selfish. > > Bryan "Roughrider50" <corkyf56@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:TplNg.216188$Df2.214408@fe05.news.easynews.com... > "Popeye" <popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in message > news:12gbja1264qqtd5@news.supernews.com... >> One Million Ways to Die > You have to consider Popeye that most of the above threats are dependant > on the individual. <snip> Now your point here is that terrorism is in the > low category so its overreaction in what we're doing. Actually, I wasn't making a point, just posting an interesting article. I don't think the -feds- are over-reacting, but I think the public is. >I say its overeaction is what keeps it in the low category. Without the >Billions spent, the color coded system, the preemptive war, etc the chances >of dying by terrorism would probably be at the top of the severe category. I disagree, for reasons having nothing to do with the article. Terrorists don't attack us because it would hurt their cause by quashing out -our- complacency. They'd rather have us paranoid in front of the T.V. than pounding on a politician's podium and demanding action. After their last attack, we trashed a couple countries, and the CIA is claiming 5000 dead terrorists. We elevated out anti-terror efforts by an order of magnitude. They are much more effective by instilling the -fear- of an attack, at least in this country. A concerted terrorist attack, today, would -redouble- our efforts in the mideast, and keep the (or, -more-,) conservatives in office, the -last- thing terrorists want. They know that the complacent, electing the appeasers, is their only hope of a foreseeable withdrawal from Iraq. One terrorist incident would be the end of that.. Furthermore, there's simply -nothing- that any military, police or intelligence service can do in this country to -eliminate- the threat of terrorist attacks. My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is for one hundred terrorists to stake out 50 airports at peak travel time, say 6 p.m. on Friday, and each shoot a departing aircraft simultaneously with an easily smuggled heat seeker. Call it 30-40 aircraft down in 30 minutes, usually dropping fully fueled into a populated area. We can't stop that, except by -accident-. It would cripple the airline industry in America, and the economy. But -then- what would happen...? America, Dec 8th, 1941. And in my personal opinion, those color alert charts are an embarrassment. Even if anyone paid attention to them, what changes in your daily routine would they prompt? None for me, but I'm already at an above average level of preparedness, and have been for a long time. As far as profiling goes, I don't debate it one way or the other, because it already happens all the time, anyway. That's just my NSHO, and I don't debate it. > All those hazards you list are somewhat individualy > controllable.......terroist threats aren't. I think we've avoided [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > their supporters. secret prisons & torture for known terrorists when > caught etc. Might offrend the PC crowd but who gives a sh.t? I think we should secure our borders, airtight, and completely withdraw from most of our overseas bases, and the U.N., and NATO. But all that pre-dated 9/11. > My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is for > one hundred terrorists to stake out 50 airports at peak travel time, say 6 > p.m. on Friday, and each shoot a departing aircraft simultaneously with an > easily smuggled heat seeker. Heat seekers aren't as readily available in the US as other options that would work just as well. Departing and Arriving aircraft are rediculously vulnerable to even unguided devices. Hell, if you were lucky, you could bring one down by throwing rocks at it. Lee >> My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is >> for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > vulnerable to even unguided devices. Hell, if you were lucky, you could > bring one down by throwing rocks at it. Maybe our NG pilots will help us out, but, from an opinion of pure ignorance, I figured that the average departing airliner could handle losing one turbofan, and still have a good chance of making it back to the runway. Blow the wing off, it's a done deal. OBL, with 300 million bucks, let alone Iran, could afford to smuggle a shipping container full of missiles in. Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. immeasurably, without shooting down a single plane that would generate a wave of retaliation. > Maybe our NG pilots will help us out, but, from an opinion of pure > ignorance, I figured that the average departing airliner could handle > losing one turbofan, and still have a good chance of making it back to the > runway. Probably so. The terrorists would have to throw multiple rocks. Actually, what went through my head when I wrote that was some kind of explosive device, something like the ancient mortars, that would throw a shitload of rocks, ball bearings, whatever, directly into the plane's path. I'll never know for sure, but I'd almost bet I would make something effective out of some pipe, wadding, black powder and nuts, bolts and chain, all things I happen to have laying around the house (for very different, very non threatening reasons). > Blow the wing off, it's a done deal. True enough. > Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a > pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. immeasurably, > without shooting down a single plane that would generate a wave of > retaliation. Just sending a container with some of the parts might be even better. The feds would spend billions trying to find out if the rest of the parts are already here somewhere. Rub a bit of uranium on the parts to make things even more interesting. Lee > Just sending a container with some of the parts might be even better. The > feds would spend billions trying to find out if the rest of the parts are > already here somewhere. Rub a bit of uranium on the parts to make things > even more interesting. A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... > A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... Might well do it, but one engine is probably not enough. It might take 4 terrorists with slingshots, the ones you can buy over the counter at Wallmart would do fine. Lee > > A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... > > Might well do it, but one engine is probably not enough. It might take 4 > terrorists with slingshots, the ones you can buy over the counter at > Wallmart would do fine. We are all going to get visits... >>> A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... >> Might well do it, but one engine is probably not enough. It might take 4 >> terrorists with slingshots, the ones you can buy over the counter at >> Wallmart would do fine. > > We are all going to get visits... and thus you win "The Laugh of the Day Award" !! >> > A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >We are all going to get visits... You weren't planning on flying anywhere, were you? Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > >> > A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You weren't planning on flying anywhere, were you? Just to Alaska... >> A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... > > Might well do it, but one engine is probably not enough. It might take 4 > terrorists with slingshots, the ones you can buy over the counter at > Wallmart would do fine. -If- you were standing on the end of the runway in plain sight, you'd be shooting at a target 150-200 ft in the air, at least. Going 150-200 miles an hour. Remind me not to go to a turkey shoot with you guys... :-) SignaturePopeye You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. -Capone www.finalprotectivefire.com > >> A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Remind me not to go to a turkey shoot with you guys... :-) Last one I went to was black poweder only, so I brought my 1.5-24 cannon. With iron sights. >> >> A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... >> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > With iron sights. Now -that- would make short work of a turbofan. :-) SignaturePopeye You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. -Capone www.finalprotectivefire.com > Now -that- would make short work of a turbofan. :-) 4.5" long wasp waisted 6061 projectiles driven by 4 oz of 4f did 2600 fps. >>> A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Remind me not to go to a turkey shoot with you guys... :-) Yup, not far off what I was thinking on the numbers. No rock throwers.....only for laughs of course. LD. > Yup, not far off what I was thinking on the numbers. No rock > throwers.....only for laughs of course. How many tries do they get an hour? Lee >> Yup, not far off what I was thinking on the numbers. No rock >> throwers.....only for laughs of course. > > How many tries do they get an hour? Dunno, how many beers do ya reckon we can drink??? LD. >> Just sending a container with some of the parts might be even better. >> The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > A slingshot propelling an aviation grade bolt into the intake... Prolly wouldn't do much damage. Could, but not likely. Be kinda like getting hit in the heart by a stingray sorta odds IMHO. LD. >>> Just sending a container with some of the parts might be even better. >>> The [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Prolly wouldn't do much damage. Could, but not likely. Be kinda like getting >hit in the heart by a stingray sorta odds IMHO. Modern turbofans are supposed to survive a bird strike. I watched a show on the A380 that showed what happens when a fan blade gets cut loose. They had to use plastic of some sort to blow it off. Nothing escaped the sides of the pod, although a lot of junk went out the back and I think the fire went out. >LD. > Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > >Prolly wouldn't do much damage. Could, but not likely. Be kinda like getting > >hit in the heart by a stingray sorta odds IMHO. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > escaped the sides of the pod, although a lot of junk went out the back > and I think the fire went out. You can safely bet the farm on the fire going out. When the blades come off, it is called "shelling" the turbine, as in turning it into a shell. Years ago I worked at a place in Alaska that rebuilds turbines for the oil patch. The offshore platforms would every so often get weathered in, and the crews couldnt get changed out (two weeks on, two weeks off) if a helicopter couldnt get there to move them and bring the next crew. After a couple days of that, one of the turbines would magically get shelled, and when the oil stops coming out, the oil companies find a way to get a crew and parts out there. >> >Prolly wouldn't do much damage. Could, but not likely. Be kinda like > getting [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > stops coming out, the oil companies find a way to get a crew and parts out > there. There's a huuuuge difference between helo turbines (or straight turbo-jets) and turbo fans which are on most modern airliners. The big blades you see in the front of yer average pax carrying jet these days, *mostly* bypasses all of the important parts. LD. > There's a huuuuge difference between helo turbines (or straight turbo-jets) > and turbo fans which are on most modern airliners. The big blades you see in > the front of yer average pax carrying jet these days, *mostly* bypasses all > of the important parts. Understood, hence the name "high bypass turbofans". >> There's a huuuuge difference between helo turbines (or straight > turbo-jets) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Understood, hence the name "high bypass turbofans". Right, and the fan blades are less likely (AFAIK) to cause catastrophic failure than the turbine blades, even if they do go. Just by the fact that they *possibly* wouldn't be ingested by the turbine section. LD. LD. >>>> Just sending a container with some of the parts might be even better. >>>> The [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > escaped the sides of the pod, although a lot of junk went out the back > and I think the fire went out. Yeah, actually that'd be the biggest problem, if it made the engine "self-destruct". Once blades start separating, the whole thing is out of balance on such a massive scale that things can go bad quickly. Having said that, a lot can go through them too. LD. > Yeah, actually that'd be the biggest problem, if it made the engine > "self-destruct". > Once blades start separating, the whole thing is out of balance on such a > massive scale that things can go bad quickly. Having said that, a lot can go > through them too. I know for a fact they wont eat 1/2" drive sockets... >> Yeah, actually that'd be the biggest problem, if it made the engine >> "self-destruct". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I know for a fact they wont eat 1/2" drive sockets... Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan blades, then there can be problems. LD. > Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more > importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan blades, > then there can be problems. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=578503158956156010&q=bird+strike&hl=en >> Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more >> importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan blades, >> then there can be problems. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=578503158956156010&q=bird+strike&hl=en I have dial-up, so I won't watch video....but I thought about mentioning earlier the video where the deck-crew goes through the port engine of an A-6. Pretty cool. LD. > >> Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more > >> importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan blades, > >> then there can be problems. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=578503158956156010&q=bird+strike&hl=en > I have dial-up, so I won't watch video....but I thought about mentioning > earlier the video where the deck-crew goes through the port engine of an > A-6. Pretty cool. http://www.grouchymedia.com/other_videos/magic_f18_ride/index.cfm Download this one overnight, you wont be sorry. > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=578503158956156010&q=bird+strike&hl=en >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Download this one overnight, you wont be sorry. Cool, did it when I went to work yesterday, watched it 3 times last night. Given my time over again, I'd be there. I'd give my left nut just for an hour of stick to try and bend one of those things. ;) LD. > I have dial-up, so I won't watch video....but I thought about mentioning > earlier the video where the deck-crew goes through the port engine of an > A-6. Pretty cool. You need to see this one. I bookmarked it. Remind me when you're over next. Lee >> Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more >> importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan blades, >> then there can be problems. > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=578503158956156010&q=bird+strike&hl=en That's a movie that rivals a modern Hollywierd blockbuster in cost. And in dollars per minute it beats even The Hulk or Titanic. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>> Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more >>> importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That's a movie that rivals a modern Hollywierd blockbuster in cost. > And in dollars per minute it beats even The Hulk or Titanic. So, do you feel you got value for your money??? LD. >> Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more >> importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan blades, >> then there can be problems. > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=578503158956156010&q=bird+strike&hl=en Lots of heavy breathing. I did like the line "you fly the plane, I'll start it". Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>> Yeah, kinda my point. When you get something big enough, and more >>> importantly, hard enough to break one or more of the titanium fan [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Lots of heavy breathing. I did like the line "you fly the plane, I'll > start it". I like hearing the controller saying, "......copy, break out to the north?" when the airplane is already vacated. LD. > > Yeah, actually that'd be the biggest problem, if it made the engine > > "self-destruct". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I know for a fact they wont eat 1/2" drive sockets... Does this have anything to do with oil turbines that magically broke? > > I know for a fact they wont eat 1/2" drive sockets... > > Does this have anything to do with oil turbines that magically broke? Yes. >> > I know for a fact they wont eat 1/2" drive sockets... >> >> Does this have anything to do with oil turbines that magically broke? > >Yes. And forgetful mechanics that can't remember where they put their tools. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > >>> Just sending a container with some of the parts might be even better. > >>> The [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Modern turbofans are supposed to survive a bird strike. For some reason, I get an image of a bunch of Japanese engineers firing frozen chickens out of a canon into the cockpit... > "Dillon Pyron" <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > frozen chickens out of a > canon into the cockpit... A Rooster Booster...one of my all-time favorite weapons. >> "Dillon Pyron" <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A Rooster Booster...one of my all-time favorite weapons. Mythbusters did a segment on that a couple of years ago. Used the windscreen of a Cessna and destoryed it several times. Then later found out they weren't rated for bird strikes. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>> "Dillon Pyron" <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > windscreen of a Cessna and destoryed it several times. Then later > found out they weren't rated for bird strikes. Right, and not to nit-pick it wasn't a cessna, same size sorta thing tho. More like what Grumman has, a Grumman ;) I used to buzz around Florida just building/ killing time. Some of the buzzards get pretty scary when you're not paying attention, they could put an end to yer day in a hurry if you took one in the windshield. You learn that hard banking climb is good, as birds will always dive when threatened in the air. LD. >> "Dillon Pyron" <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A Rooster Booster...one of my all-time favorite weapons. No white hats allowed on the flight deck either. USS Forrestal CVA59 (68-72). F4s,A4s,A6s,A7s etc. ate white hats and saliors too. Yum, Yum > > Maybe our NG pilots will help us out, but, from an opinion of pure >> ignorance, I figured that the average departing airliner could handle [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > chain, all things I happen to have laying around the house (for very > different, very non threatening reasons). Unfortunately, it wouldn't take much imagination. I was gonna say, assuming you were not using 'throwing a rock' in a literal sense, of course. ;) >> Blow the wing off, it's a done deal. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > already here somewhere. Rub a bit of uranium on the parts to make things > even more interesting. Oh boy! I'm out of this one. LD. > Unfortunately, it wouldn't take much imagination. > I was gonna say, assuming you were not using 'throwing a rock' in a > literal sense, of course. ;) Of course. On the other hand, it sounds like a plot for another Mythbusters show. Lee >> Unfortunately, it wouldn't take much imagination. >> I was gonna say, assuming you were not using 'throwing a rock' in a >> literal sense, of course. ;) > > Of course. On the other hand, it sounds like a plot for another > Mythbusters show. Well that.....or us and a 12-pack. LD. > Well that.....or us and a 12-pack. You can give it a try if you like. I'm not going to be anywhere near when you do. 8^) Lee >> Well that.....or us and a 12-pack. > > You can give it a try if you like. I'm not going to be anywhere near when > you do. 8^) When I what? Drink a 12-pack? LD. >>> Well that.....or us and a 12-pack. >> >> You can give it a try if you like. I'm not going to be anywhere near >> when you do. 8^) >> > When I what? Drink a 12-pack? Well, now that you mention it, yeah. Us and one 12 pack ain't going to cut it. Lee > Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a > pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. immeasurably, > without shooting down a single plane that would generate a wave of > retaliation. Retaliation against whom? Will we invade Afghanistan again? Iraq? > > Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a > > pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. immeasurably, > > without shooting down a single plane that would generate a wave of > > retaliation. > > Retaliation against whom? Will we invade Afghanistan again? Iraq? LA. >> Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a >> pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. >> immeasurably, without shooting down a single plane that would generate a >> wave of retaliation. > > Retaliation against whom? Will we invade Afghanistan again? Iraq? Anyone we want, as we've established. Cool, huh? SignaturePopeye You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. -Capone www.finalprotectivefire.com >> Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a >> pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. >> immeasurably, without shooting down a single plane that would generate a >> wave of retaliation. > Retaliation against whom? Will we invade Afghanistan again? Iraq? How about France? We haven't trashed them lately. Lee >>> Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a >>> pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How about France? We haven't trashed them lately. Count me in! LD. >>>> Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a >>>> pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >LD. Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch d' Triomphe? Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't > we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch > d' Triomphe? Bastard. I just passed half a tuna sandwich through my nose... >> Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >> we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I just passed half a tuna sandwich through my nose... My pleasure. The line actually came a few years ago in the F1 NG when somebody claimed that Renault would use rebadged BMW engines. I replied "yeah, that'll happen when the Germans sing Deuschtland Uber Alles from the Arch d' Triomphe. Oh, wait." Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>> Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>> we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > that'll happen when the Germans sing Deuschtland Uber Alles from the > Arch d' Triomphe. Oh, wait." Beautiful! >>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Beautiful! In fact we planned to take it upside down, with the "legs" up in the air, and call it "Arc de Niederlage" ( Arch of Surrender) Matthias > In fact we planned to take it upside down, with the "legs" > up in the air, and call it "Arc de Niederlage" ( Arch of > Surrender) Oh man, that is wicked. >> In fact we planned to take it upside down, with the "legs" >> up in the air, and call it "Arc de Niederlage" ( Arch of >> Surrender) > > Oh man, that is wicked. <snicker> SignaturePopeye You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. -Capone www.finalprotectivefire.com >>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch >>>>>d' Triomphe? > In fact we planned to take it upside down, with the "legs" up in the air, > and call it "Arc de Niederlage" ( Arch of Surrender) > > Matthias Far-right threat hangs over German vote Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:30pm ET International News BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's far right looks set to win seats in its third regional parliament on Sunday as discontent with Chancellor Angela Merkel's national government and depressed conditions in the east push voters to the fringes. The National Democratic Party (NPD) has gained ground in the northeastern state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern with anti-immigrant tirades and attacks on Merkel's increasingly unpopular "grand coalition" of conservatives and Social Democrats (SPD). Polls project it will win about 7 percent of the vote, a result which would allow it to enter the regional assembly and give the far-right representation in three of the six state parliaments in Germany's former communist east. Voting in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and in a separate election in the German capital and city-state of Berlin gets under way at 8 a.m. (0600 GMT) on Sunday and the first exit polls are expected at 6 p.m. (1600 GMT). Despite 17 percent unemployment and public debt of 60 billion euros ($76.35 billion), voters in Berlin are expected to re-elect popular SPD Mayor Klaus Wowereit. He could seal a coalition with his current partners, the reformed communist Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS), or with the Greens. But the focus in Germany has been on Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, where incumbent SPD state Premier Harald Ringstorff could be returned to his post or forced to become junior partner in a coalition with the conservative Christian Democrats (CDU). The region, which sits on the Baltic Sea and borders Poland, hosted a meeting this summer between Merkel and President Bush, who enjoyed a barbecue of wild boar before both headed off for a G8 summit in St. Petersburg. Some fear the state, reliant on tourism after its manufacturing base eroded and its population declined by 15 percent following the fall of the Berlin Wall, will become known as a hotbed for neo-Nazis. "The NPD's entry into parliament would do significant damage to this state," Ringstorff warned at a rally on Saturday. "They seem to have plenty of money and are trying to acquire the protest vote. That has got to be a worry." On a national level CDU Chancellor Angela Merkel's grand coalition with the SPD is pushing reforms including a rise in sales tax and increase in the retirement age; unpopular measures that could create a well for the NPD to draw on. The NPD reached the pinnacle of its influence toward the end of the last, three-year, period of "grand coalition" government in 1969, when it came close to polling the five percent needed to enter the national parliament. While the NPD and other far-right parties have little influence on the national stage today, their radical and nationalist views have found acceptance in the depressed east, where unemployment is close to 20 percent and prospects are bleak. NPD politicians already sit in the parliament of Saxony to the southeast of Berlin, where their rising popularity is seen as a potential discouragement to foreign investors. In Brandenburg, surrounding the capital Berlin, the far-right German People's Union (DVU) has been in parliament since 1999. SignaturePopeye It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle www.finalprotectivefire.com >>>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >national government and depressed conditions in the east push voters to the >fringes. I lived in Germany 40 years ago. Things don't seem to have changed much. All the same old parties with new faces. Of course, back then the NPD were considered pahrias. >The National Democratic Party (NPD) has gained ground in the northeastern >state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern with anti-immigrant tirades and attacks on [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >to foreign investors. In Brandenburg, surrounding the capital Berlin, the >far-right German People's Union (DVU) has been in parliament since 1999. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. <snip> > Despite 17 percent unemployment and public debt of 60 billion euros ($76.35 > billion), voters in Berlin are expected to re-elect popular SPD Mayor Klaus > Wowereit. He could seal a coalition with his current partners, the reformed > communist Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS), or with the Greens. 60 billion euros? 76.35 billion dollars? Hell, that's not a debt! :-) Dennis >>>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:30pm ET > International News ...... > BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's far right looks set to win seats in its third > regional parliament on Sunday as discontent with Chancellor Angela Merkel's > national government and depressed conditions in the east push voters to the > fringes. > Some fear the state, reliant on tourism after its manufacturing base eroded > and its population declined by 15 percent following the fall of the Berlin > Wall, will become known as a hotbed for neo-Nazis. Always has been. Impoverished countryside. > "The NPD's entry into parliament would do significant damage to this state," > Ringstorff warned at a rally on Saturday. "They seem to have plenty of money > and are trying to acquire the protest vote. That has got to be a worry." > On a national level CDU Chancellor Angela Merkel's grand coalition with the > SPD is pushing reforms including a rise in sales tax and increase in the > retirement age; unpopular measures that could create a well for the NPD to > draw on. > While the NPD and other far-right parties have little influence on the > national stage today, their radical and nationalist views have found > acceptance in the depressed east, where unemployment is close to 20 percent > and prospects are bleak. All this dwarfs in view of the radical and idiotic changes our minister of health, Mrs. Ulla Schmidt intends to make real. This is the main reason I don't think this recent government will make it through the election period. She lately announced that she'd find it wiser that elder people should go see their priest rather than their medical doctor... She is a shame for the country. Matthias >>>>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, >>>>>>>aren't [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Always has been. Impoverished countryside. No criticism intended. I can't wait for you guys to attack. If you start with the French, you'll probably get a support coalition. >> "The NPD's entry into parliament would do significant damage to this >> state," Ringstorff warned at a rally on Saturday. "They seem to have [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Matthias >>>>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Always has been. Impoverished countryside. It's still East Germany, they just have a different name for it (I think they now call it East Germany) >> "The NPD's entry into parliament would do significant damage to this state," >> Ringstorff warned at a rally on Saturday. "They seem to have plenty of money [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >people should go see their priest rather than their medical >doctor... That's a great way to cut down on health care costs. >She is a shame for the country. We'll trade you a Hillary and throw in a Sharpton free of charge. >Matthias Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>>>>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > It's still East Germany, they just have a different name for it (I > think they now call it East Germany) I believe "Eastern Germany" is correct. >>>>>>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >I believe "Eastern Germany" is correct. A long time friend in Wiesbaden calls it East Germany, usually with a sneer. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>>>>>>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>>>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > A long time friend in Wiesbaden calls it East Germany, usually with a > sneer. We sometimes, with a sneer too, call it "Neu-Fuenf-Land", (new-five-states-country), mostly in the sense of "the place where all the money goes to" ( to no avail) Matthias > >All this dwarfs in view of the radical and idiotic changes > >our minister of health, Mrs. Ulla Schmidt intends to make real. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >people should go see their priest rather than their medical > >doctor... She'll likely feel that only until she's of a certain age. >>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Matthias Rich. Like a chocolate tort rich. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>>>>Only the Germans have the right to do that. Speaking of which, aren't >>>>>we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > In fact we planned to take it upside down, with the "legs" up in the air, > and call it "Arc de Niederlage" ( Arch of Surrender) Now, that's just plain rude to French people everywhere.......... I love it! LD. >>>>> Just sending such a container to be found by the Feds, would cost him a >>>>> pittance, and terrify most of the air passengers in the U.S. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > we a little overdue for singing Dueschtland Uber Alles from the Arch > d' Triomphe? cold ! >>> My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is >>> for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > losing one turbofan, and still have a good chance of making it back to the > runway. Most pax airliners wouldn't want to return to the runway. Once you reacha certain "commit" speed yer off. Losing an engine is not a massive problem, they're *all* certified to be able to do this under all the worst possible conditions. > Blow the wing off, it's a done deal. Of course, as would be losing 2 (in the case of a twin anyway;)). LD. >> My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is >> for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > vulnerable to even unguided devices. Hell, if you were lucky, you could > bring one down by throwing rocks at it. Hehe, I dunno but it could make for an entertaining afternoon. LD. >>> My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is >>> for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >LD. But not the Federal lock up. We used to go out to the end of the runway and watch B52s flap their wings on take off. Those were the good old days. Living on base helped. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > But not the Federal lock up. We used to go out to the end of the > runway and watch B52s flap their wings on take off. Those were the > good old days. Living on base helped. One of my bro's used to crew chief Buff's. He said they would pump the fuel to the outboard tanks, and all but set the outermost engines on the tarmac so they could work on them without having to haul a ladder and scaffolding out there. If memory serves, the wings flapped like 12 feet or something rediculous. >> But not the Federal lock up. We used to go out to the end of the >> runway and watch B52s flap their wings on take off. Those were the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > If memory serves, the wings flapped like 12 feet or something rediculous. I saw a picture of a Learjet where some dipshit ramp monkey filled one of the tip-tanks *first*. It took the place of the opposing main. LD. >>>> My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is >>>> for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > runway and watch B52s flap their wings on take off. Those were the > good old days. Living on base helped. You were a brat? >>>>> My pet scenario, out of tens of thousands of conceivable scenarios, is >>>>> for [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >You were a brat? Yup, born at Tripler, went as far east as Wiesbaden. Dad did WWII (Germany as a infantry man with a BAR), Korea (as the tail gunner in a B29) and Viet Nam (as a comptroller). All his Air Force time was in SAC. Peace is our profession, war is just a hobby. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. >>You were a brat? >> > Yup, born at Tripler, went as far east as Wiesbaden. Dad did WWII > (Germany as a infantry man with a BAR), Korea (as the tail gunner in a > B29) and Viet Nam (as a comptroller). All his Air Force time was in > SAC. Peace is our profession, war is just a hobby. Ah cool. Had bud's based at Wiesbaden, got some good stories! Cool dad. LD. >>>You were a brat? >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >LD. Yeah, Friday would have been his 80th. But he drank and smoked himself into an early grave. At least we became friends and I did a few things that made him proud of me. Signaturedillon If you can't figure out how to unmunge my address, email me and I'll explain it. > A concerted terrorist attack, today, would -redouble- our efforts in the > mideast, and keep the (or, -more-,) conservatives in office, the -last- > thing terrorists want. Hardly. Conservatives do things like invade Iraq under false pretenses and get caught torturing prisoners and blaspheming Islam on camera. Perfect recruitment fodder for Al Qaeda, which has actually gained in strength since 9/11. > Hardly. Conservatives do things like invade Iraq under false pretenses and > get caught torturing prisoners and blaspheming Islam on camera. Perfect > recruitment fodder for Al Qaeda, which has actually gained in strength since > 9/11. You should have a show on the Comedy Channel. >> A concerted terrorist attack, today, would -redouble- our efforts in the >> mideast, and keep the (or, -more-,) conservatives in office, the -last- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Perfect recruitment fodder for Al Qaeda, which has actually gained in > strength since 9/11. Thanks for agreeing with me. |
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