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Scuba Forum / General / August 2006AOW vs. Specialties
Question for y'all...yinz...you guys...whatever. I'm still a fairly new diver (25 dives since certification) and I have an opportunity to do AOW classes in Florida next month. There are a couple PADI specialties I'm interested in, and I know that AOW counts as one class in a few of the specialties. Here's my question: Should I just do the specialties wholesale or do the AOW and follow up with continued specialties later on? I only get to dive two or three times a year...I live in Chicago and the lake is just too damn cold for me (no I'm not interested in drysuit). Next month I have a dive vacation planned and I just found out that some classes would fit nicely into my schedule. So which should I take? AOW or couple of specialities? a > Question for y'all...yinz...you guys...whatever. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > So which should I take? AOW or couple of specialities? I'd send the money on diving. IME, diving is the best training for diving. Amanda wrote: > I'm still a fairly new diver (25 dives since certification) and I have > an opportunity to do AOW classes in Florida next month. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > classes would fit nicely into my schedule. > So which should I take? AOW or couple of specialities? nospam wrote: > I'd send the money on diving. IME, diving is the best training for > diving. Not bad advise at all. It's your vacation, do whatever will make you happiest. Personally, if I live in Chicago and was paying to dive in Florida, I'd do just what nospam said, spend my money on diving. YMMV. In my opinion, the AOW certification isn't one of the better courses. On the other hand, it does tend to be prerequisite for some that are good, like search and recovery, rescue and nitrox. If you want some of these courses, then the sooner you get the prerequisite, the sooner you're ready to take them. On the other hand, if you're considering specialties for fun, or because they interest you, then your time may be better spent pursuing them. Lee > Amanda wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>I'd send the money on diving. IME, diving is the best training for >>diving. This is a good point. But I found out that because there are so many regular divers in Florida, most of the charter trips don't include a guide, and I don't feel comfortable being buddied up with a random stranger for an unguided dive when I don't have some of the necessary skills myself (navigation being my chief concern). Yup, I'm traveling buddyless. The AOW dives come with a handy dandy instructor, so no buddy worries. It will also be a small class, so I think there will be time for some fun-diving in there. > Not bad advise at all. It's your vacation, do whatever will make you > happiest. Personally, if I live in Chicago and was paying to dive in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Lee I'm all about fun. I don't think I'll ever be a tech diver...I'm not even gunning for dive master...but I'll probably try Nitrox eventually, definitely want bouyancy training, and that navigation thing of course. I do know I'd need AOW for other classes down the line, so I might as well do it now. I also want to not feel like such a beginner. Mostly that just means I need to do more dives, I know, but I'd feel better with a little more training. Thanks for the helpful words. -Amanda > > Amanda wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >>classes would fit nicely into my schedule. > >>So which should I take? AOW or couple of specialities? > > nospam wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It will also be a small class, so I think there will be time for some > fun-diving in there. You've got great instincts to want to avoid buddying up with strangers. Since buddy diving is still your first choice, the AOW class, being small, sounds like a great solution. Otherwise, as was said, diving itself is the best training, especially for someone with a level head, which you certainly appear to have. snip > I'm all about fun. I don't think I'll ever be a tech diver...I'm not > even gunning for dive master...but I'll probably try Nitrox eventually, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks for the helpful words. With very little practice, you're going to master buoyancy and navigation, I think. Save your money and get those skills through experience. It won't take YOU long! Best regards and enjoy your trip! Dave C > You've got great instincts to want to avoid buddying up with strangers. It's a 50/50 shot. Depending on where in Florida she goes, she may encounter some of the most experienced and even most famous divers in the world. She could do worse. On the other hand, there are no guarantees that she'll wind up buddied with one of them . . . unless she looks like that Tanga add that was going around recently. If she does, she can have pretty much any buddy she wants. Lee >> Amanda wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >It will also be a small class, so I think there will be time for some >fun-diving in there. You'll still be buddied up with someone. The instructor won't be with you all the time for AOW. I'm always in the water (some sort of PADI requirement) but, except for demonstration of skills and the deep dive, I'm rarely with the student. On your night dive (make sure that's one that you do) you'll be alone with your buddy. On the navigation dive, I'll show you how to do it, and they you're off with your buddy. Most of the instruction goes on onshore. >> Not bad advise at all. It's your vacation, do whatever will make you >> happiest. Personally, if I live in Chicago and was paying to dive in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >even gunning for dive master...but I'll probably try Nitrox eventually, >definitely want bouyancy training, and that navigation thing of course. I don't teach the Peak Bouyancy Performance unless I've got a student who really really wants to waste his money and already has the basics down. You'll learn more by just diving. PPP doesn't so much teach as it does hone. The same goes with navigation, unless you want to dive in some of the contests that some clubs have. Nitrox is well worth the money, but requires AOW. Unless you just want the card, I'd skip the PADI class and take one of the more technical classes. It really doesn't matter that it's not a PADI card, mine isn't. Underwater photography is a fun class, but may require an investment in a camera, depending on who teaches it. I supply the camera, but the course is one-on-one. Unless you just gotta have the card, or want to dive on a boat with a RAB divemaster who won't let you dive deep without one, I'd skip the AOW for a while and just dive. But it's your vacation. Depending on the shop, you may get some good diving out of the class, but it's two days of diving that you'll lose on your vacation. >I do know I'd need AOW for other classes down the line, so I might as >well do it now. I also want to not feel like such a beginner. Mostly >that just means I need to do more dives, I know, but I'd feel better >with a little more training. If your comfort level requires it, then take the class. OTOH, my first OW dives after I got certed was in Cozumel. First dive was to 35 feet on the airplane. Next dive was the following day. 110 feet on Santa Rosa. All Aqua Safari cared about was that I had "a" card. Any card. Good luck and have fun. >Thanks for the helpful words. > >-Amanda  Signaturedillon How much power does it take to run a server farm? A googlewatt. I guess it's different everywhere, but I have been on many charters that won't take divers to certain sites unless they have AOW certification. Al >>> Amanda wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] >> >>-Amanda > I guess it's different everywhere, but I have been on many charters that > won't take divers to certain sites unless they have AOW certification. That's pretty common in the keys for the Duane, Bibb and SG, and in NC and SC for the farther out wrecks, and I just got off the phone with a moronic Canadian who wants it for some of the recreational depth St Lawrence wrecks >> I guess it's different everywhere, but I have been on many charters that >> won't take divers to certain sites unless they have AOW certification. Very common in NC > That's pretty common in the keys for the Duane, Bibb and SG, and in NC > and SC for the farther out wrecks, and I just got off the phone with a > moronic Canadian who wants it for some of the recreational depth St > Lawrence wrecks Interesting article about the difference between having skills vs certs <http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1840056,00.html> quote Training courses for scuba divers were branded "madness" yesterday by an expert on the sport as a coroner heard how three divers died in separate accidents off the British coast. Dr Philip Bryson said he was amazed that enthusiasts could call themselves advanced divers after fewer than 10 sessions in open water. Giving evidence at the inquests of three divers who died off the coasts of Cornwall and Devon, he singled out the American company PADI, the biggest diving training organisation in the world, for particular criticism. He said its methods had forced others to streamline their training programmes. end quote see link for rest of article John > Interesting article about the difference between having skills vs certs > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > criticism. He said its methods had forced others to streamline their > training programmes. See, this is why I really want this "advanced" training. Not so I can go "Yay, I'm advanced!" but so I can get a little more guided experience than I normally get on regular dives. I'm still a little surprised at how easy it was to qualify. I wouldn't consider myself and "advanced" diver til after my first few hundred dives. I don't think you can blame the training for those deaths though, any more than you can blame driver's ed classes on car accidents...no matter what you teach people, there will always be morons who don't think the rules apply to them (even when it's the rules of physics). -Amanda PS: Regarding having my pick up buddies....I don't look like any kind of water goddess, but that isn't what prevents me getting my pick of buddies...it's usually that I don't have a dive computer. Again, a point of training...I'd rather be really good at the tables before I let a computer handle the details for me. >>The AOW dives come with a handy dandy instructor, so no buddy worries. >>It will also be a small class, so I think there will be time for some [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > navigation dive, I'll show you how to do it, and they you're off with > your buddy. Most of the instruction goes on onshore. Good to know. But at least any buddy I end up with is also interested in learning, not hotdogging, and will likely be as conservative as I am. > I don't teach the Peak Bouyancy Performance unless I've got a student > who really really wants to waste his money and already has the basics [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the PADI class and take one of the more technical classes. It really > doesn't matter that it's not a PADI card, mine isn't. Also good to know...I feel pretty comfortable with my bouyancy...I never touch the reef or the wreck, and I can get pretty close. I want to do navigation in case I someday get paired with a buddy who doesn't know how to get us back to the boat. > Underwater photography is a fun class, but may require an investment > in a camera, depending on who teaches it. I supply the camera, but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the shop, you may get some good diving out of the class, but it's two > days of diving that you'll lose on your vacation. Shop says it's two days, five dives...which is about what I'd be doing without classes anyway. This is strictly a dive vacation, so it's not like I'm losing valuable vacating time. > If your comfort level requires it, then take the class. OTOH, my > first OW dives after I got certed was in Cozumel. First dive was to > 35 feet on the airplane. Next dive was the following day. 110 feet > on Santa Rosa. All Aqua Safari cared about was that I had "a" card. > Any card. Yeesh, yeah, I'd feel much more comfortable with some deep dive training before something like that. I had a very conservative instructor for my confined water dives before open water certification...he basically said that if you're heading into untrained territory and your buddy or guide says "don't worry, you'll be fine," then you should worry. :-) He also said, in these exact words: "If you breathe out your tank, you're a moron." I really loved my instructor. Thanks. a >snip< > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I really loved my instructor. Love aside...... The problem with what he said is, it's not strictly true. Seeing as how analogies seem to be the latest rec.scuba 'thing', I'd say that running yer car out of gas is generally more moronic than breathing yer tank dry. Of course, the situation makes all the difference. Many of us here, including some reeeeeeally experienced divers, have sucked tanks dry on more than one occasion.....intentionally, in my case at least. Of course, if you haven't monitored yer gas and you suck it dry while you're in the engine room of the Hydro Atlantic, then that's a bit different than chasing that last bug in 15' of water. YMMV. Dave. > Many of us here, including some reeeeeeally experienced > divers, have sucked tanks dry on more than one > occasion.....intentionally, in my case at least. No big deal, you just switch to your other tank... You did bring another tank with you, right? <evil-grin> >> Many of us here, including some reeeeeeally experienced >> divers, have sucked tanks dry on more than one >> occasion.....intentionally, in my case at least. > >No big deal, you just switch to your other tank... You did bring >another tank with you, right? <evil-grin> I thought that's what Spare Air is for? <wicked grin, let the flames begin> Signaturedillon How much power does it take to run a server farm? A googlewatt. >>> Many of us here, including some reeeeeeally experienced >>> divers, have sucked tanks dry on more than one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I thought that's what Spare Air is for? <wicked grin, let the flames >begin> Yes, you shove the spare air tank up the a.s of the moron that only gave you a 2k psi fill. Then call your parents and tell them you were wronge, you are not smarter than them. > I thought that's what Spare Air is for? <wicked grin, let the flames > begin> My "spare air" is a pair of J-valves on two steel-72s... I suspect I get quite a bit more breaths oiut of them than someone would with even the largest Spare Air sold these days... >> Many of us here, including some reeeeeeally experienced >> divers, have sucked tanks dry on more than one >> occasion.....intentionally, in my case at least. I wasn't including myself in the 'reeeeeeally eperienced' part, btw. > No big deal, you just switch to your other tank... You did bring > another tank with you, right? <evil-grin> Yeah, but you know me well enough by know to know that I don't enjoy exercise enough to drag it around with me, I leave it on the boat for my second dive. LD. > Yeah, but you know me well enough by know to know that I don't enjoy > exercise enough to drag it around with me, I leave it on the boat for my > second dive. Just like in flying, fuel left on the ground doesn't help you when you need it... I would rather carry an extra tank with me and not need it than not carry it and find out that I *do* need it... >> Yeah, but you know me well enough by know to know that I don't enjoy >> exercise enough to drag it around with me, I leave it on the boat for my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > need it... I would rather carry an extra tank with me and not need it > than not carry it and find out that I *do* need it... and there lies the difference. I carry enough in one bottle to stay down with you for a full *rec* dive and usually have plenty left in that too. I don't *ever* need a second bottle in a single dive. At least up until now, I have never planned a dive that would require it. Oh, and I'm lazy. LD. <snip> > Oh, and I'm lazy. Me too, but I prefer to call it "efficient." > <snip> > >> Oh, and I'm lazy. > > Me too, but I prefer to call it "efficient." ;0) 'nuf said. > Many of us here, including some reeeeeeally experienced > divers, have sucked tanks dry on more than one > occasion.....intentionally, in my case at least. I did exactly that on my Tortugas spearfishing trip and still didn't get the damned Black Grouper or my spear out from under the rock. My buddy was right beside me and still had the 1,500 psi we used to get from 46 feet to the surface, including a safety stop. Lee >> Many of us here, including some reeeeeeally experienced >> divers, have sucked tanks dry on more than one [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > was right beside me and still had the 1,500 psi we used to get from 46 > feet to the surface, including a safety stop. Cool, so we both have new stories to catch up on. Give me a ring when you have some time. I have another fairly easy week. Dave. >>>The AOW dives come with a handy dandy instructor, so no buddy worries. >>>It will also be a small class, so I think there will be time for some [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > >a If you want to learn navigation, get a compass a towel, a slate and marker. Go out into the back yard and take a heading on a immovable object in the back yard. Write the heading down on the slate. Go over to that object and take a heading to another object. Write that heading down on the slate. Go to that object and take a heading back to where you started and write it on the slate. Go back to your starting point and put the towel over your head so all you can see is straight down. Now use your compass to walk to each of the objects and back to your starting point. When you get so you are less than a foot off every time, take 250 dollars, buy an 80 dollar bottle of Herradura tequila and a jet express ticket to somewhere warm. > When you get so you are less than a foot > off every time, take 250 dollars, buy an 80 dollar bottle of Herradura <snip> Patron. Anejo. Jeez. |
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