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Scuba Forum / General / July 2006whats the purpose of backup gauges?
i'm thinking of getting a non air integrated wrist computer with an analog pressure gauge and compass.. or maybe an air integrated computer with a compass attachment. everything i read says 'you must have a backup pressure gauge and depth gauge and ideally even a back up bottom timer'. why? i'm sure these computers are awfully reliable at this point but even in the off chance that my computer fails one day when i'm underwater, i would simply ascend.. analog backups or not my day is done, so why spend the extra money? why carry the extra bulk/hose? i'm speaking strictly about recreational open water no decompression diving. > I'm thinking of getting a non air integrated wrist computer with an > analog pressure gauge and compass. The thing you seem to be describing doesn't exist. A wrist computer doesn't have a pressure gauge unless it's air integrated via a hoseless communication link. A console mounted set can. > . . . or maybe an air integrated computer with a compass attachment. Be sure you understand the information it provides and that you want that information in one place enough to pay the increased price and take the increased risk of failure of the whole system due to failure of the SPG function. > . . . everything i read says 'you must have a backup pressure gauge and > depth gauge and ideally even a back up bottom > timer'. I don't know where you read this, but it's not a common practice. Most divers do not have a backup SPG or even a backup depth gauge or bottom timer. Citizen Hyper Aqualand watches kind of revolutionized this a few years back. They're a reasonably priced watch, that also provide depth, time and temperature information as well as a fairly nice download and log printout. Those that have them, have much of the backup you're talking about, but the majority of divers don't. Some divers also carry a backup computer on trips and places where the diving, particularly the expense of the diving, is great enough to make that a good idea. Most divers don't and even those that have backup computers don't all take them on every dive. > why? i'm sure these computers are awfully reliable at this point but even > in the off chance that my computer fails one day when > i'm underwater, i would simply ascend.. analog backups or not my day is > done, so why spend the extra money? why carry the > extra bulk/hose? i'm speaking strictly about recreational open water no > decompression diving. With a backup computer, assuming it's gone on every dive with you, your day is not done. That's one of the primary reasons why people carry backup computers. Convenience is also a major factor. Many of us take liveaboard diving cruises, where replacement equipment may not be readily available. I, for example, carry a complete regulator set, first stage, second stages, hoses, gauges and computer in my dive bag. It's there to temporarily replace either my wife's regulator or mine if needed, but primarily for parts to ensure both of them continue to function. It's a somewhat different kind of save a dive kit. Popeye takes a somewhat different approach. He carries a diving parts store around in his truck. He has a very efficient, very complete and somewhat compact kit for keeping things working that has saved the bacon for more than one rec.scuba diver, including me. Don't get too carried away with backup equipment. You'll want some, but may never need, or even want as much as Popeye or I may sometimes carry. You're on track with the important concept. Think through what is important to you and why, and meet that need. Let others do the same, be aware of their choices, but make equipment choices for yourself. Lee > > I'm thinking of getting a non air integrated wrist computer with an > > analog pressure gauge and compass. > The thing you seem to be describing doesn't exist. A wrist computer doesn't > have a pressure gauge unless it's air integrated via a hoseless > communication link. A console mounted set can. no i meant a standard analog pressure guage with compass consolo and then a completely seperate wrist computer. > > . . . or maybe an air integrated computer with a compass attachment. > Be sure you understand the information it provides and that you want that > information in one place enough to pay the increased price and take the > increased risk of failure of the whole system due to failure of the SPG > function. right but regardless, if my computer fails, i'm done for the day.. so i just don't see what difference it makes whether it kept track of everything or just most things. bottom line is the same, go up. and again, how often do these computers fail? or at least the well established big brand ones? analog gauges and consoles surely fail too, yet you don't hear too many people advocating keep doubles of those.. > With a backup computer, assuming it's gone on every dive with you, your day > is not done. That's one of the primary reasons why people carry backup > computers. i can understand a backup computer, as that is realistically the only thing that would allow you to continue your day as if nothing happened.. but that still does not explain the need to back up a computers functions with 'some' analog gauges. and simply do a search for 'backup analog' and you'll find about a hundred posts advocating this very practice. > Don't get too carried away with backup equipment. You'll want some, but may > never need, or even want as much as Popeye or I may sometimes carry. but why do i need -any- backup gauges? i'm still not seeing the logic. if all you have is a computer and backup gauges, your day is still done. or is there something i don't know like these computers have a tendancy to give inaccurate readings? (in which case why the hell would anyone ever trust one at all?) thanks > right but regardless, if my computer fails, i'm done for the day.. so i > just don't see what difference it makes whether it kept track of > everything or just most things. bottom line is the same, go up. and > again, how often do these computers fail? or at least the well > established big brand ones? analog gauges and consoles surely fail too, > yet you don't hear too many people advocating keep doubles of those.. According to most tables, even if you came out after incurring a deco obligation because you pushed the tables, after 6 hours you are once again a B. So, not necessarily done for the day - maybe the afternoon trip is out, though. You do know it's a good idea to take a break in the middle of several days of intense diving, to go sightseeing and offgas, just as a precaution? * > i'm thinking of getting a non air integrated wrist computer with an > analog pressure gauge and compass.. or maybe an air integrated computer [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > speaking strictly about recreational open water no decompression > diving. I can't think of any good reason to have a backup pressure guage. If your guage stops working (I have never seen that happen), end your dive and get it sorted out. At that point knowing how much gas you have left is not important if you were practicing sensible gas management. Adding a backup guage is adding several more failure points without any return. I dive with no computer and just a simple bottom timer, with a G-Shock watch as a backup timer. Unless you're diving on a wall, you know where the bottom is - it doesn't change. My buddy has a bottom timer too, so we still have at least one. Failure of my bottom timer is nothing more than a slight inconvenience. For recreational diving, if you get separated from your buddy, all you need to do is guess where to do a safety stop, and by the definition of "recreational" diving, it wouldn't hurt you badly to skip it if you had to. I'll let others address the issue of diving with a computer. Figure it out - no computer, no ridiculous computer problems. I would agree that computers are ok for the many recreational occasional divers who don't live and breathe this stuff like I do, but they are also willing to sit out for a day if their computer fails. Like you mention yourself it depends a lot on what kind of diving you're doing. Keep this in mind when you recieve advice from others, who might carry out dives that are significantly different from yours. They might talk of situations or precautions that do not nessarily apply to the conditions you dive under. Normally I wouldn't take a backup depth/timer with me, unless I am doing deep/deco diving where it's vital to stick to a plan. On shallower dives I rely on my buddy and his instruments as a backup as sufficient for a controlled ascent (and as a last resort I have depth marks on my deco-spool). I wouldn't take a spare presssure gauge or compass with me. The compass is for rough navigation underwater and again your buddy has a backup. The likelyhood of the pressure gauge failing is low and since you're frequently checking your airsupply you'll most likely note that there's something odd. I've had 2 incidents last year with a computer screwing up on a dive (none in the previous 5 years though). Last summer my buddy's computer (air integrated btw) blacked out due to low battery on a 24m dive (apparently the LB warning is... a blank screen :P). I had a spare dive timer (in my old console, had recently bought a wrist comp.) which he could have a look at while we ascended. Was nice with a spare, but far from nessary. Last fall my computer messed up (said I was 3m deeper than I was among other things). We continued the dive (I used my backup divetimer+plan instead) without any problems. On ascent my buddy encountered problems with his computer and insisted that we remained on deco for a long time. To this date I'm not sure what the deal with his computer was, but I'm fairly confident that at least a part of it was his lack of familiarity with the unit. To sum it up, decide for yourself what you feel is appropriate security, it might even be enough to rely on your buddy's instrument (ie compass). > i'm thinking of getting a non air integrated wrist computer with an > analog pressure gauge and compass.. or maybe an air integrated computer [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > speaking strictly about recreational open water no decompression > diving. > To sum it up, decide for yourself what you feel is appropriate security, it > might even be enough to rely on your buddy's instrument (ie compass). what computers do you guys use? > > To sum it up, decide for yourself what you feel is appropriate security, it > > might even be enough to rely on your buddy's instrument (ie compass). > > what computers do you guys use? I'm diving an Orca Edge (no longer made) software version 3 > what computers do you guys use? Genesis React... Basic hockey puck computer that is manufactured under various brands... OTOH, I went for *many* years with no computer and often without even worrying about tables... One dive per day on a single 72 or 80 makes it somewhat difficult to get into a deco obligation... Then again, I didn't have an SPG or octo back then either... Funny how things that were considered acceptable back then are considered overly risky today by *some* people... > what computers do you guys use? Same as Al, simple bottom timer, mine's Uwatec. Curtis > Same as Al, simple bottom timer, mine's Uwatec. I akso use Uwatec. I have/had several Beuchat timers, including the one available only to the military, and they are nothing but trouble. The Uwatec is bulletproof and cheap, and when the bettery dies, I will throw it away and buy a new one. My current one is 7 years old and I bought it to replace one that "disappeared" after a cave dive among Germans in Mexico. > > To sum it up, decide for yourself what you feel is appropriate security, it > > might even be enough to rely on your buddy's instrument (ie compass). > > what computers do you guys use? When in Cozumel - and that is mostly where I dive these days, I have a Genesis React on the console, another in a pocket of the BC, and a Hyperaqualand. So I am up to Federation standards (warp 8 Mr Sulu.) Three different times I have had computers crap out and die and lost dives and or dive days. Computer 1 fails, computer 2 has been there the whole time, computer 2 fails, I can still do tables. For other dives I have other combinations but usually two computers and the Hyperaqualand. I have had AI computers (and that is where I have had the most failures) of varying brands. > what computers do you guys use? Originally, I used US Divers Monitor I computers. I had two of them, but not for use at the same time. I got them cheaply and used one while the other was in for a battery replacement. I still have them and they're still working, but I do not recommend them. They have no graphic display of nitrogen loading or "caution" zone to remind users that they are close to their limits. For most diving, I use either a nitrox capable Oceanic or a Genesis one button hockey puck, the kind that's the same size as the depth gauge in most consoles. They are identical except for name and the location of some information. They're made by the same company, which is neither Oceanic nor Genesis. I used to use them together on some trips. These days, each has its own console. On is attached to my primary regulator, the other is attached to my back up. I have a wrist mount if I ever need it. I recommend either of these computers, but suggest getting the two button model instead of the one button ones I have. The two buttons make it easier to set and offers a few options not available on the one button version. More recently, I've used a Dive Rite Nitek Duo for those dives where I plan on using more than one gas, normally some nitrox mixed specifically for my target depth and 50% to improve nitrogen off gassing at the end of the dive. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm using it for mandatory deco stops. Sometimes it's just to give me a bit more time at depth on a planned subsequent dive. I just bought a Dive Rite Nitek He. It's a 7 gas computer designed for use with trimix. I bought it for several reasons: 1. It gives me information on the main screen once I'm in deco status that the Duo doesn't. That is the primary reason for the upgrade. 2. It was on sale. That's the second most important reasons. I got it for less than it's ever likely to be available to me again . . . I think. If I'm wrong, well, that's how things go sometimes. 3. It's a trimix computer. I assume I'll be using some form of trimix in the reasonably near future. I have several of the planning tools used by others, which I may well use instead of the trimix computer, particularly if whoever my buddy is, does the same. On the other hand, when I know a bit more, I may chose to use the computer. I have some learning to do before I can decide. I have not yet used the Nitek He, so I can't provide much in the way of a recommendation relative to how it works. I do already have some thoughts on other issues: 1. It's large, but the strap is not. I'm not sure I'm going to like that. I may, or may not figure out some alternative way to wear it. 2. The download studs are on the front of the computer, under where either a hard plastic or a soft plastic protector is. You have to undo straps and both protectors, if you use both, before you can download a dive. 3. Even with the protectors off, it's hell on earth to get the studs to line up with the download unit. 4. The download unit goes for $100 if you buy it with the unit, more if you buy it sometime later. It's a cheap looking unit that I've been told was made in some guys kitchen from Radio Shack parts. I believe it. It works, it does not work easily, and it's way over priced. YMMV. 5. The download software creates a nice record of your dive. It has the ability to do a 3d graph and seems to capture pretty much everything you'd want to know about your dive in a format you'd be proud to show to others. It doesn't seem to print the record. Instead, you get a black and white line and only a couple pieces of information. This seems to make no sense at all, so I assume that it's something I'm not doing right rather than the way it really works. If I'm wrong, shame on Dive Rite. I've found a way around the problem. I maximize the screen record, do a screen capture and paste it to Word, which prints it just fine. Lee >> what computers do you guys use? > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > I have not yet used the Nitek He, so I can't provide much in the way of a > recommendation relative to how it works. <snip> The deco times tend to be slightly longer at the shallow stops than tables, generated with Decoplanner with 20 & 85 as the gradient factors. John > The deco times tend to be slightly longer at the shallow stops than > tables, generated with Decoplanner with 20 & 85 as the gradient factors. Doesn't sound like a significant problem to me. >> The deco times tend to be slightly longer at the shallow stops than >> tables, generated with Decoplanner with 20 & 85 as the gradient factors. > > Doesn't sound like a significant problem to me. It isn't on the hydo atlantic and lowrance, I had between 3-5 minutes on the HE vs tables having cleared me. I don't mind a few extra minutes either. JOhn >>To sum it up, decide for yourself what you feel is appropriate security, it >>might even be enough to rely on your buddy's instrument (ie compass). > > what computers do you guys use? I use a suunto Cobra (air integrated) and a Citizens Hyperlanc Personally I use a Apeks Quantum. The divetimer I mentioned (in the console) is a regular Uwatec divetimer, which I'm quite satisfied with. The Quantum really messed up... when I reached the surface it believed I was still at 2m depth and the dive time kept on ticking up till 600 minutes after which it went into surface mode. I've seen a Vyper do something similar, so it's what happens occasionally due to the inconsitensy of coding, and which explains (to me) why you really want to have some kind of backup. My buddy (first situation) was a air integrated Cobra (I think... he's using a Vyper now). My 2nd buddy (2nd situation)... No idea... was a borrowed one from a center, which would account for why my buddy had problems deciphering it in the first place. (second rule of diving: familiarize yourself with your equipment :-)) Thomas >> To sum it up, decide for yourself what you feel is appropriate security, >> it >> might even be enough to rely on your buddy's instrument (ie compass). > > what computers do you guys use? VR3 and a Cobra--total overkill...  SignatureRapid Rick "Just Dive, Baby" > what computers do you guys use? > i'm thinking of getting a non air integrated wrist computer with an > analog pressure gauge and compass.. or maybe an air integrated computer [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > speaking strictly about recreational open water no decompression > diving. This is what I do: I fit a pony guage to my regulator 1st stage: www.scubamart.com/detail.aspx%3FID%3D544 +oceanic+pony+gauge&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=1 (It is also useful for checking bottles without powering up the computer.) Then explain to my buddy that you might ask him/her to read it if your wireless link fails, & you are good to go. I have had one Aladin Air-X fail on me during a dive and also one mechanical contents guage too. So for me the jury's still out on reliability, Dive safe Pip pip SignatureChris Notton Replace "nospam" with my surname to reply by email Sostituisca il "nospam" con il mio cognome per rispondere }<////(*> Basic setup is next to bottles, bcd etc, 1 first stage, 1 second stage, 1 octo, pressure gauge, depth meter and compass. You can make a lot of fancy dives with this setup for many years. For fault tollerance, just because it's an unfriendly environment out there if things dó start to fail, many people including me, choose to have a backup first and second stage instead of the octo. I took the longhose setup from DIR because I liked the idea of helping my buddy in panic with air, but being able to give him enough space to calm down and use my hands to talk to him, instead of him grabbing my inflator to explain to me he wants upwards and a bit fast (happend to me, never again!) Also I wanted a computer, 'cause it would calculate my remaining bottom time for me at each depth and thus giving me more bottomtime without calculating all the time (with just 30+ dives I also want to look arround and still pay some attention to buyouncy and stuff) and for the same reason an air integrated one (calculates how much divetime left on basis of ACTUAL depth and airconsumption, including breathing time neaded for safety stops etc.) Also it graphically gives me the ascent rate (programmable) so I can not only see if I have gone to fast, but already before that when I am nearing that point or even if I am accellerating or decellarating my ascent. (so I won't be speeding from -25m to -16m to have calculated I'm ascending to fast and while correcting (deflating) and looking at my buddy, only to find me already back at -20 meters!) My Suunto D9 has all this at my wrist (Depth, time, air left, divetime left, bottom time left, temperature, ascent rate bar-graph). Yet it can fail. Therefore I keep my console. In my case attached to the backup first stage. Diving in cold Holland that means I can actually even handle a blowing second stage due to freeze (never happened on my Mares Abyss, yet) in winters by closing the manifold of the blowing stage (your buddy wil propably have to do that) and then comfortably with yer own air from the backup and all gauges and meters either digitally or analog available commence my ascent (blowing of empties a bottle pretty quick!). For the "Why would excess stuff need to be dangling arround"-type of guys: I keep my console (as I usually don't need it) with a retractor and musketon firmly from under my arm onto my chest, grabable when needed (just grab and pull) and tied away when not. So the extra pressure gauge maybe wouldn't do the trick (although computers need not to blank screen to fail, they also could just tell you the wrong values and leave you at depth without air whilst shouting you still have enough for half a day!!!), but you would need analog time and depth to make a safe ascent without overspeeding or falling back down in the middle of an ascent (jojo-dives! good for the bends, bad for you). Frank > i'm thinking of getting a non air integrated wrist computer with an > analog pressure gauge and compass.. or maybe an air integrated computer [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > speaking strictly about recreational open water no decompression > diving. > My Suunto D9 has all this at my wrist (Depth, time, air left, divetime > left, ... > Therefore I keep my console. In my case attached to the backup first > stage. That's pretty darn wacky, if you ask me. You eliminate all the unnecessary crap (i.e., HP hose) with an AI wrist computer, then go ahead and duplicate it? Why not dive doubles on all dives just to have an extra tank? I know you Dutch are a bit screwy due to all the drugs, but this takes the cake. > Why not dive doubles on all dives just to have an extra tank? and, do you have a problem with that? Curtis >> Why not dive doubles on all dives just to have an extra tank? > > and, do you have a problem with that? Er, do I get to keep my existing limbs if I answer wrong? >>> Why not dive doubles on all dives just to have an extra tank? >> >> and, do you have a problem with that? > > Er, do I get to keep my existing limbs if I answer wrong? If you answer wrong? You mean _when_ you answer wrong? BTW, that's a freebie, nothing to bend you out of shape over..... :-) Curtis > Why not dive doubles on all dives just to have an extra tank? Hmmm... Works for me... > I know you Dutch are a bit screwy due to all the drugs, but > this takes the cake. Wouldn't that be, "takes the 'spekkoek'"? Lol, but "spekkoek" is actually originally from indonesia (with lots of dutch influence though)... Greg is completely right though, all the dutch take drugs all the time and all americans only eat gigantic hamburgers three times a day, accompanied by huge cokes... or not? Frank >> Why not dive doubles on all dives just to have an extra tank? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Wouldn't that be, "takes the 'spekkoek'"? > Greg is completely right though, all the dutch take drugs all the time and > all americans only eat gigantic hamburgers three times a day, accompanied > by huge cokes... or not? I don't know where you get this stuff. We don't eat gigantic hamburgers three times a day. We eat them two times a day. For breakfast, we have biscuits, smothered in sausage gravy and bowls of grits. We do drink huge cokes at all meals, but the more health conscious of us sometimes substitute Diet Cokes for the more fattening variety. Lee > I don't know where you get this stuff. We don't eat gigantic hamburgers > three times a day. We eat them two times a day. For breakfast, we have > biscuits, smothered in sausage gravy and bowls of grits. Cold pizza and warm beer left over from the night before -- the college breakfast of champions... >> I don't know where you get this stuff. We don't eat gigantic hamburgers >> three times a day. We eat them two times a day. For breakfast, we have >> biscuits, smothered in sausage gravy and bowls of grits. > > Cold pizza and warm beer left over from the night before -- the > college breakfast of champions... That's Italian food. What are you, some kind of commie? > That's Italian food. What are you, some kind of commie? Since when is warm beer Italian food? Maybe British though... > Since when is warm beer Italian food? Maybe British though... A common misconception, one that I was only recently cured of. British beer is served at British room temperature, which is not what you or I would call warm. It's decidedly cool. I have some Old Peculiar in the refrigerator as I type. To be at its best, it needs to be cool. It's not good warm and, when as cold as I get US beer, its taste is not what it should be. I actually have to let it warm up to get the full effect. Lee > I have some Old Peculiar in the refrigerator as I type. To be at its > best, it needs to be cool. It's not good warm and, when as cold as I get > US beer, its taste is not what it should be. I actually have to let it > warm up to get the full effect. A little parking lot grit goes a long way. >> I have some Old Peculiar in the refrigerator as I type. To be at its >> best, it needs to be cool. It's not good warm and, when as cold as I get >> US beer, its taste is not what it should be. I actually have to let it >> warm up to get the full effect. > A little parking lot grit goes a long way. No, my friend, this is quality stuff, and hard as hell to find in the US. Lee >> A little parking lot grit goes a long way. > > No, my friend, this is quality stuff, and hard as hell to find in the US. If you call me your friend, you need to let me drink your beer. Maybe I'll invite you to DWG III after all. (BTW, you spelled it wrong again: Old Peculier, according to the website http://www.theakstons.co.uk/LA/OldPeculier.htm) I'll have to track some down around here and give it try. Greg Mossman > If you call me your friend, you need to let me drink your beer. Maybe > I'll invite you to DWG III after all. When have I ever failed to share spirits. Of course, if you're going to be my neighbor, you'll need to return the favor occasionally. > (BTW, you spelled it wrong again: Old Peculier, according to the website > http://www.theakstons.co.uk/LA/OldPeculier.htm) Yeah, well, I've never been what you call a connoseur . . . or been able to spell. > I'll have to track some down around here and give it try. Just remember, on the cold side of cool, but not cold. It's a pretty flavorful beer, so don't be surprised if a couple in a row is enough. Lee > Greg Mossman > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > When have I ever failed to share spirits. Of course, if you're going to > be my neighbor, you'll need to return the favor occasionally. I'll pour you some Manischewitz on Passover. > Just remember, on the cold side of cool, but not cold. It's a pretty > flavorful beer, so don't be surprised if a couple in a row is enough. That would surprise me. Lol, you clearly got my point! Frank >> Greg is completely right though, all the dutch take drugs all the time >> and all americans only eat gigantic hamburgers three times a day, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lee > Lol, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all americans only eat gigantic hamburgers three times a day, accompanied > by huge cokes... or not? Most do. Do you have drive-thru drug pushers like we have drive-thru burger vendors? > I liked the idea of helping my buddy in panic with air, but being able to > give him enough space to calm down and use my hands to talk to him, > instead of him grabbing my inflator to explain to me he wants upwards and > a bit fast (happend to me, never again!) Bad idea. The last thing you want to do with a buddy in panic is give him space to react to that panic, by heading up fast, for example, while he is not under your direct control, but is attached to the gas supply you both need to get to the surface safely. > Diving in cold Holland that means I can actually even handle a blowing > second stage due to freeze (never happened on my Mares Abyss, yet) in > winters by closing the manifold of the blowing stage (your buddy wil > propably have to do that) and then comfortably with yer own air from the > backup and all gauges and meters either digitally or analog available > commence my ascent (blowing of empties a bottle pretty quick!). If you can't shut down your own equipment, get in the pool and practice until you can. > but you would need analog time and depth to make a safe ascent without > overspeeding or falling back down in the middle of an ascent (jojo-dives! > good for the bends, bad for you). No you don't. Here's a hint. Bubbles rise. Medium sized bubbles rise at approximately the same rate as you try to. Small ones rise slower. Lee >Basic setup is next to bottles, bcd etc, 1 first stage, 1 second stage, 1 >octo, pressure gauge, depth meter and compass. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >him, instead of him grabbing my inflator to explain to me he wants upwards >and a bit fast (happend to me, never again!) That's not what a long hose is for. Your panicked buddy will surely reel you in. Strokes you long hoses too. Again, not for that. >Also I wanted a computer, 'cause it would calculate my remaining bottom time >for me at each depth and thus giving me more bottomtime without calculating [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> speaking strictly about recreational open water no decompression >> diving. > why? i'm sure these computers are awfully reliable at this point but > even in the off chance that my computer fails one day when i'm > underwater, i would simply ascend.. analog backups or not my day is > done, so why spend the extra money? why carry the extra bulk/hose? i'm > speaking strictly about recreational open water no decompression > diving. The Computers batteries may work Great on the Surface H O W E V E R . . . When you jump into the water, cooling the batteries ever so slightly, they may just up & Die, leaving you with no idea what you have in your tank, how deep you are, or your Deco Obligations.. >> why? i'm sure these computers are awfully reliable at this point but >> even in the off chance that my computer fails one day when i'm [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Deco Obligations.. If you really have no idea about the answers to those questions at any point in your dive you are an accident waiting to happen. Redundancy is a good thing John "John Mason Jr" <notvalid@cox.net.invalid> skrev i en meddelelse > Redundancy is a good thing I agree! Over-redundancy however is a bad thing. Let me borrow your expression... 'it's an accident waiting to happen'. Which is essentially why this thread started. Is it really nessary beeing self-redundant on your manometre and compass? > "John Mason Jr" <notvalid@cox.net.invalid> skrev i en meddelelse >> Redundancy is a good thing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Which is essentially why this thread started. > Is it really nessary beeing self-redundant on your manometre and compass? No redundant pressure gauges is more failure points. Compass only needs to be redundant if it is required to complete the dive goals. I meant having redundant bottom timer & tables or computer depending on how you dive is a good thing John > No redundant pressure gauges is more failure points. > Compass only needs to be redundant if it is required to complete the dive > goals. Yep, and for most dives your buddy's compass can be a reasonable backup (assuming he's able to use it properly, but that goes for all equipment). > I meant having redundant bottom timer & tables or computer depending on > how you dive is a good thing Agreed. > The Computers batteries may work Great on the Surface > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Deco Obligations.. I bet the deco obligations aren't too much given that the guy just jumped into the water. > The Computers batteries may work Great on the Surface H O W E V E R . . . > When you jump into the water, cooling the batteries ever so slightly, > they may just up & Die, > leaving you with no idea what you have in your tank, how deep you are, > or your Deco Obligations.. Bullshit. OK, it's true that batteries don't always work as well when cold as they do when warm. If there's a chance of a problem, change the batteries before your first dive. I've had a lot of computers over the years and, while I've heard of some showing a low batter indication and then failing to function before the end of the week, I don't think I've ever even seen a low battery indication on one of my computers. Personally. a dollar or so, whatever the batteries cost, is cheap insurance against this one. If you jump in the water, even without a computer, and have no idea what you have in your tank, have not idea how deep you are or have no idea what your deco obligations are, let alone all three, please, find another hobby. This one isn't for you and, when you die, you make us all look bad. Lee > > The Computers batteries may work Great on the Surface H O W E V E R . . . > > When you jump into the water, cooling the batteries ever so slightly, > > they may just up & Die, > > leaving you with no idea what you have in your tank, how deep you are, > > or your Deco Obligations.. <snip> > If you jump in the water, even without a computer, and have no idea what you > have in your tank, have not idea how deep you are or have no idea what your > deco obligations are, let alone all three, please, find another hobby. This > one isn't for you and, when you die, you make us all look bad. > > Lee OR with no dive plan and that you have more than sufficient gas to complete the dive as planned with respect to time, depths, and deco obligations, if any past a safety stop .... * |
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