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Scuba Forum / General / December 2006several gear questions (suunto stinger, leisurepro, diveinn?)
so i have some gear questions, taking my open water and advanced open water, will be done in two weeks, i got my mask, snorkel and some mares quattro fins.. just looking at gear options should i decide to equip myself.. it appears the two best places online are diveinn.com and lesiurepro.com, leisurepro being about 10% cheaper prices and no 4.2% duty surcharge. my first set of question is with regards to these two particular stores, leisurepro does not provide a manufacturers warranty and diveinn does.. i move around a lot and will likely need to get my gear serviced in a different city/shop every year.. will shops only service gear they sold or can you just say you're from out of town? will shops only service gear with a warranty card or can you just say you bought it used? what i'm wondering is if its worth paying the extra 14.2% to get the warranty cards from diveinn.. leisurepro offers their own in house warranty so all i care about is getting my gear serviced annually. and now to the gear, if i'm going to buy gear i'm going to get something good because it seems like gear in this sport can last decades and obsoletion does not seem to be too common. i'm thinking about getting an aqualung legend lx supreme acd, i tried my instructors and really liked how easily it breathes, huge difference when upside down.. i haven't tried it in deep water yet but he assures me the difference is equally noticable. seems like something you could keep for a very long time with no regrets. for bcd, seaquest qd..? and for computer and gauges, i was thinking about getting a mares mission 2c compact (compass/spg) with a suunto stinger dive computer wristwatch.. which leads me to my second set of questions. the first thing i want to get is a dive computer so i'm curious about my choices here since i have no experience. i don't want a digital pressure gauge or compass so the mares mission 2c covers that.. and i want a wrist mounted dive computer. i also need a new watch so the stinger kind of kills two birds with one stone. i'm going to try and find one around town and see how big it is and if i can manipulate it with gloves on (i'm in canada so will be doing lots of cold water diving).. but if i can't find one.. for those of you who own one or who've taken a look at one.. is it too big to be a proper wrist watch? would that be a bad idea? is it too small to be easily read under water or operated with gloves on? is it lacking any important features? i was also looking at the viper, seems a lot bulkier, but cheaper, and definitely not a wrist watch :) it has a dive simulator and consumed bottom time graph feature that the stinger does not have.. what exactly are those and are they actual usefull? once again and advice would be greatly appreciated, i'd like to get the dive computer soon, and a wetsuit after that. not sure when i'll buy a bcd/reg/octopus/gauges.. thanks! > which leads me to my second set of questions. the first thing i want to > get is a dive computer so i'm curious about my choices here since i [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > stinger does not have.. what exactly are those and are they actual > usefull? If you want a wristwatch, buy a wristwatch. If you want a dive computer buy a dive computer. Things that try to be more than one thing (in my experience) tend to not do any of the things they try to do very well. I would not give a dime for a Suntoo computer. I have one. They are so conservative you might as well not bother with multi-day dive trips. Experimentally, I put the Suunto on one high pressure outlet and a Genesis computer on the other and did two dives in Cozumel. First dive to about 100 feet for an hour second to about 65 for an hour with 90 minutes in between. At the end of the second dive, the Suunto said I needed 15 minutes of deco. The Genesis clear to go to the surface. The Suunto is sitting on a shelf in the garage waiting for a reason to sell it. As for BCDs and built-in octopuses. The more complicated a thing is mechanically, the more likely it is to fail. It looks nice - very spiffy but what are you going to do, bend over and breath from your BC pocket or have someone else doing it? Ditto the octo built into the low pressure inflator. Looks nice seems like a good idea until you try to use it (BTDT). You cant breath and dump air at the same time and if you are taking someone else up, you have to be watching them so now you have too many things to think about. Task loading is not a good idea. KISS with dive gear. > As for BCDs and built-in octopuses. The more complicated a thing is > mechanically, the more likely it is to fail. It looks nice - very [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > KISS with dive gear. forgive my ignorance but what do built-in octopuses have to do with the gear i was looking at? and if you don't like suunto, what wrist mounted dive computer would you reccomend? thanks >> As for BCDs and built-in octopuses. The more complicated a thing is >> mechanically, the more likely it is to fail. It looks nice - very [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >dive computer would you reccomend? >thanks That is just incorrect, I have an octo plus, yes I bought it before I was OW certified. I can breath it and dump air at the same time by pressing the button. I disabled the pull on it to dump. > If you want a wristwatch, buy a wristwatch. If you want a dive > computer buy a dive computer. Things that try to be more than one > thing (in my experience) tend to not do any of the things they try to > do very well. Interesting perspective worth some thought. > I would not give a dime for a Suntoo computer. I have > one. They are so conservative you might as well not bother with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to go to the surface. The Suunto is sitting on a shelf in the garage > waiting for a reason to sell it. Not to mention the way Suunto computers handle O2 issues. > As for BCDs and built-in octopuses. The more complicated a thing is > mechanically, the more likely it is to fail. It looks nice - very [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you are taking someone else up, you have to be watching them so now you > have too many things to think about. Task loading is not a good idea. While I don't use one any more, I had no problems using one when I did. I selected mine specifically because I could use it and retain full head movement. It was almost as comfortable as my primary. I carry little, if any, gas in my BCD, but when I did, I had no problem breathing and dumping gas while using the combination inflator/alternate. For most configurations, there are three ways to do it. You can use a shoulder pull dump, you can pull on the hose so that the cable activates the shoulder dump, or you can push the button, just like you do when not breathing the unit. If you're head up, the mouthpiece is near, or above the top of the BCD. Lee > Not to mention the way Suunto computers handle O2 issues. I seem to have missed this - I rarely dive recreational nitrox, so what's the story here, Lee? I dont mind an overly conservative computer, generally - no skin off my nose to do a slightly longer hang after a dive. Have been using Suuntos for a while, and am quite happy with them (although I am irritated at having to send me D9 back for warranty - it was misting up internally after 1 month of use). Vandit >> If you want a wristwatch, buy a wristwatch. If you want a dive >> computer buy a dive computer. Things that try to be more than one >> thing (in my experience) tend to not do any of the things they try to >> do very well. > > Interesting perspective worth some thought. Not really. My Suunto tells the time as well as any other digital watch. Maybe even better, since it's got real big numbers for the Magoos amongst us. >so i have some gear questions, taking my open water and advanced open >water, will be done in two weeks, i got my mask, snorkel and some mares >quattro fins.. You're not even out of class and you're already buying gear? You should be renting until you a) find something that works for you and, more importantly, b) find that you really want to dive enough to spend the money on gear. > just looking at gear options should i decide to equip >myself.. it appears the two best places online are diveinn.com and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >own in house warranty so all i care about is getting my gear serviced >annually. If something breaks, you have to send it back to Leisurepro. If you have a warranty card, any authorized shop can fix it under warranty. Yes, you can take it anywhere. To keep the warranty up to date, you need to have it serviced annually at an authorized repair shop. >and now to the gear, if i'm going to buy gear i'm going to get >something good because it seems like gear in this sport can last [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >computer and gauges, i was thinking about getting a mares mission 2c >compact (compass/spg) with a suunto stinger dive computer wristwatch.. Rent before you buy. You may find something that suits your needs for a lot less money. >which leads me to my second set of questions. the first thing i want to >get is a dive computer so i'm curious about my choices here since i [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >stinger does not have.. what exactly are those and are they actual >usefull? Don't get the computer. Dive on tables until you truly understand what they mean. Using the computer off the bat will only wind up with you being a slave to it. Most of the people here dived for years without one, and only use it as a tool. You won't, I can almost guarantee that. >once again and advice would be greatly appreciated, i'd like to get the >dive computer soon, and a wetsuit after that. not sure when i'll buy a >bcd/reg/octopus/gauges.. thanks! Dive first, rent first. Don't get caught up in the manufactorer's hype. And don't get tangled up in the need for the very best out there until you're sure you'll use it. Used scuba gear doesn't sell for very much on e-Bay, so make sure it's what you really want.  Signaturedillon JAFO > Don't get the computer. Dive on tables until you truly understand > what they mean. Using the computer off the bat will only wind up with > you being a slave to it. Most of the people here dived for years > without one, and only use it as a tool. You won't, I can almost > guarantee that. While I agree with you Dillon - and you know who trained me - most places arent even bothering much with the tables anymore except as an anachronism. > While I agree with you Dillon - and you know who trained me - most > places arent even bothering much with the tables anymore except as an > anachronism. Before I understood how all this Usenet stuff worked, I used to post my stuff on the telephone pole across the street. But the feedback increased exponentially once I got a computer and found rec.scuba. Get a computer and a regulator. You don't need any of the rest of the stuff in order to dive, though admittedly fins work a bit better than bare feet, and a mask makes it easier to see stuff underwater. Though if you're diving Lake Travis, what is there to see? > You're not even out of class and you're already buying gear? You > should be renting until you a) find something that works for you and, > more importantly, b) find that you really want to dive enough to spend > the money on gear. they don't rent that regulator, and i would oviously try on some different bcds before buying as fit is obviously important, thats just the one that was suggested to me. i can't rent everything in the store, at least not out here, there are two packages, standard and premium. i've tried the standard many times as it is the rig they give for lessons. the 'premium' rig is a pro qd with titan lx. $60 cdn a day for the low end or $100 for the premium rig and a dive computer (not sure which model). i could buy a titan lx supreme with octo, pro qd bcd, bare 7mm wetsuit, suunto vyper and spg/compass for about $1750 cdn from leisurepro.. or get the legend regulator for $175 cdn more. so that means i've paid for my gear after diving 18 days (premium) or 30 days (standard)... for gear that lasts decades not just a couple of years like with many sports. seems to me like buying is the way to go..? > If something breaks, you have to send it back to Leisurepro. If you > have a warranty card, any authorized shop can fix it under warranty. > Yes, you can take it anywhere. To keep the warranty up to date, you > need to have it serviced annually at an authorized repair shop. but can you have it serviced anywhere without a warranty card?? > Don't get the computer. Dive on tables until you truly understand > what they mean. Using the computer off the bat will only wind up with > you being a slave to it. Most of the people here dived for years > without one, and only use it as a tool. You won't, I can almost > guarantee that. i understand tables, they're really simple, afterall its grade one math. i was planning on using the tables all the time, even if i bought a computer. i like to double check things :) > Dive first, rent first. Don't get caught up in the manufactorer's > hype. And don't get tangled up in the need for the very best out > there until you're sure you'll use it. Used scuba gear doesn't sell > for very much on e-Bay, so make sure it's what you really want. well i wasn't planning on buying anytime soon except possibly the dive computer, thanks for the advice. alright so i called about a half dozen shops and told them i'd bought some used equipment (apeks/seaquest) and wanted to know if they could service it for me, they said no problem just bring it by. i said i don't have warranty cards, they said thats ok warranties aren't transferable anyways. said it would cost about $50-55 cdn for regular annual servicing of the regulator assuming no big overhaul is needed, and $10-15 for the bcd. so what exactly is the downside to ordering from leisurepro and saving 40%? if it breaks i ship it back, $15-20 no big deal, how often does this stuff break anyways? and i can still get it serviced locally.. so whats the problem? > >so i have some gear questions, taking my open water and advanced open > >water, will be done in two weeks, i got my mask, snorkel and some mares [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > there until you're sure you'll use it. Used scuba gear doesn't sell > for very much on e-Bay, so make sure it's what you really want. not only that, i call lp and they said they even pay shipping to and from for servicing within the US. > alright so i called about a half dozen shops and told them i'd bought > some used equipment (apeks/seaquest) and wanted to know if they could [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > there until you're sure you'll use it. Used scuba gear doesn't sell > > for very much on e-Bay, so make sure it's what you really want. >so what exactly is the downside to ordering >from leisurepro and saving 40%? I ordered from Leisurepro once. They decided that possession of my Email address entitled them to spam me. I would never order from them again - I don't willingly give money to spammers. SignatureRon (user ron in domain spamblocked.com) i'd rather save $800 and give them my 'second' email address that i use for online purchases, site registrations, newsgroups, etc.. it only takes 30 seconds to open a yahoo or gmail account. > >so what exactly is the downside to ordering > >from leisurepro and saving 40%? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would never order from them again - I don't willingly give > money to spammers. >i'd rather save $800 and give them my 'second' email address that i use >for online purchases, site registrations, newsgroups, etc.. it only [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> would never order from them again - I don't willingly give >> money to spammers. Go for it. I bought two atomic regs from them and saved $1400 off the price the LDS wanted to charge. At the same time I bought two Oceanic BCDs and saved another $450. LP configured both sets of gear with regard to hoses and gauges. The same story with the first computers: saved $300. I've mentioned this before. This LDS was marking their stuff at MSRP+10% and giving their students a 10% discount. How low can you get. Anyway, they went OOB last year. You can only get away with that so long. Their former tech and my instructor filled me in on the details. Don't get me wrong. By all means support your local LDS if they're fair. If you do buy at LP, just don't advertise it. And as far as spam from Leisure Pro. That's the least of my worries. If you don't like spam buy a tool like Mailwasher. It allows you to bounce unwanted emails.When the orginator picks that up, they cull you from their list. It takes a while, but it works. Sorry for the spam. yuk, yuk. Now if I could just get rid of all the Viagra spam.... Ha, ha.. >>so what exactly is the downside to ordering >>from leisurepro and saving 40%? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would never order from them again - I don't willingly give > money to spammers. If you give willingly give someone your e-mail address, how can it possibly be spamming? Ask them to take you off their mailing list. I'm sure they'll comply. "From time to time you may receive Leisure Pro special fliers via postal mail or e-mail notification of specials that may be of interest to you. E-mail recipients can opt-out from our e-mail listings by clicking on the unsubscribe link provided with every promotional email we send out. Registrants may also opt-out of receiving materials from us at any time by contacting us with such request." -- http://www.leisurepro.com/Content/Privacy.html >If you give willingly give someone your e-mail address, how can it possibly >be spamming? I provided my Email address for purposes of order confirmation, not so they could send me advertising at my expense. > Ask them to take you off their mailing list. I'm sure they'll >comply. I don't unsubscribe from something I never subscribed to in the first place. >"From time to time you may receive Leisure Pro special fliers via postal >mail or e-mail notification of specials that may be of interest to you. >E-mail recipients can opt-out [snip] Either this policy wasn't there back when I ordered, or I missed it. There's no way I'd have ordered from them if I did see it. If you want to buy mailorder/internet, try Scubatoys. They haven't spammed me, their prices are reasonable, and they do give you a manufacturer warranty. Diveriteexpress has also been good, but their selection is more limited. SignatureRon (user ron in domain spamblocked.com) > if it breaks i ship it back, $15-20 no big deal, how often does > this stuff break anyways? and i can still get > it serviced locally.. so whats the problem? There's an issue of the added downtime on having to ship it somewhere else for service... This may or may not be an issue for you... Some regulators have warranties that provide free parts so you only have to pay labor... If you're not buying one with this type of warranty, it might not be as much of an issue... OTOH, some people go years without having their regulators serviced... Some people even go so far as to claim that the only regulator problems that they have had over the years have been after it came out of service... Oh, BTW, top posting on USENET is considered poor style... Snipping the post to only the points that you need to comment on is generally considered a better style... Snipping >the post to only the points that you need to comment on is generally >considered a better style... I bought a dive bag on the internet, it lasted 18 months and fell apart. I bought a dive mask at my LDS, 4 years later one tab that holds the lens in was broken after I flew home. THe LDS replaces it at no charge. > so i have some gear questions, taking my open water and advanced open > water, will be done in two weeks, i got my mask, snorkel and some mares [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > computer and gauges, i was thinking about getting a mares mission 2c > compact (compass/spg) with a suunto stinger dive computer wristwatch.. I've had 2 Seaquest S4 BCD's and they have been very durable. I would recommend getting stuff you need to fit properly from your LDS. As far as the computer goes, buy one. You should carry and know how to use the dive tables as well in case you have a computer failure. Jay . > I've had 2 Seaquest S4 BCD's and they have been very durable. I would > recommend getting stuff you need to fit properly from your LDS. As far as > the computer goes, buy one. You should carry and know how to use the dive > tables as well in case you have a computer failure. > > Jay cool, i've yet to read a bad review about the seaquest pro qd or seaquest balance so i'll probably end up with either one, i'm going to do everything i can to try both under water to see which inflation type i prefer but if i can't demo/rent a balance somewhere i'll just get a qd. i know i can rent one of those. I would like people who own or are considering to buy Suunto computers to be aware of the following: I don't trust Suunto on their computers. First they have known problems: http://www.suuntoservice.com/safetynotice/diving/ and second they have known problems they don't speak of such as a freezing problem of their Cobra computers. I know because mine, S/N 527334 froze at 85ft on me. no buttons worked and even when I removed it from the regulator, it still showed the pressure of over 2500PSI. I returned it to my dive shop who informed me they had at least one more returned for the same reason. It's been at the shop months now and I finally found out because I didn't provide my sales receipt, they didn't do a thing. Despite the fact that by the S/N they know it's less than a year old plus the unsafe condition of the device, you'd think they would have done something. Additionally there is nothing on their website about this problem. Of course no one asked me about my safety either so apparently Suunto isn't concerned with your safety or the safety of their dive computers nor are they willing to share their safety issues online. I would never even consider buying another Suunto dive computer. Suunto used to make great oil filled compasses but my suggestion is not to trust them with your safety using their dive computers. I have two Oceanic dive computers also, one VEO 250 and one PRO and have never had a problem with them. --Norman >so i have some gear questions, taking my open water and advanced open >water, will be done in two weeks, i got my mask, snorkel and some mares [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >dive computer soon, and a wetsuit after that. not sure when i'll buy a >bcd/reg/octopus/gauges.. thanks! |
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