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Scuba Forum / General / July 2006Question re: BCD, regulator, weights
I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving location or do many places have weighted bags you can use? I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an octopus? Any advice will be appreciated. Sy  SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com > I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the > near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any advice will be appreciated. Do a google groups advanced search on "air2" in the groups rec.scuba.* Dennis > The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal > with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression > though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving > location or do many places have weighted bags you can use? I dislike weight belts. The integrated weight pockes will hold solid or soft weights. Many boats have weights on board. If you're diving with a shop that furnishes weights you may need to carry the weight to your destination or it may be available at the dive site. > I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated > into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side > "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do > you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated > octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an > octopus? There is a downside to everything but I wouldn't let a couple minor negatives stop you from using an integrated octopus. Any type of BCD whose inflator connector is the same the diameter as the octopus is the easiest to connect to and requires very little effort. Worst case scenario is complete replacement of the bladder connector to the octopus. You can retrofit. <sytech@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal :with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression :though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving :location or do many places have weighted bags you can use? You don't need weighted bags with weight integrated BCs. You just use normal weights. Most dive ops that cater to tourists will have these available at no extra charge. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the > near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving > location or do many places have weighted bags you can use? I found that hard weights fit in my BCD just as well, if you have one single weight. Most places, in my experience, do -not- have soft weight, they aren't very durable. > I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated > into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side > "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do > you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated > octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an > octopus? First off, any "dangling" octopus is a sign of poor skillset- it should be secured. Secondly, if you're talking about a "Mares HUB", have yourself slapped until the notion passes. As far as a downside, an "integrated octo", commonly called an "Air II" (although that -is- a particular brand), requires different training and tactics to employ. I.e., how easily can you breath it, and use it to control your depth, in a panicked diver/rescue situation? Because you'll be breathing it during air sharing, not the other guy. It's too short to pass away, and you -must not- give him control of your power inflator. They do come with 2 different sizes of fittings, but adapters are available, and, in a worst case scenario, one would have to switch a low pressure hose. But if you own and travel with both BCD and regs, it's not an issue. It's something that brooks lively argument here, many of us having used and discarded them, you might try the archives. I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience. That's after 600+ dives with a long hose, and bungied secondary. SignaturePopeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > Most places, in my experience, do -not- have soft weight, they aren't very > durable. And they are more expensive. > Secondly, if you're talking about a "Mares HUB", have yourself slapped > until the notion passes. I certainly agree with that. > They do come with 2 different sizes of fittings, but adapters are > available, and, in a worst case scenario, one would have to switch a low > pressure hose. > > But if you own and travel with both BCD and regs, it's not an issue. Actually, it is an issue, just not a big one. Some places that have a supply of standard inflator hoses, do not have an adequate supply of proprietary ones for inflator/alternate units. The solution is easy, carry a spare. Lee > > I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the > > near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > www.finalprotectivefire.com > > I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the > > near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > It's too short to pass away, and you -must not- give him control of your > power inflator. Yes, yes yes. What Pops said. And get a BP/wing; give up the BC idea. > They do come with 2 different sizes of fittings, but adapters are > available, and, in a worst case scenario, one would have to switch a low [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience. You are WHAT???? Do tell your reasoning here! * >> I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience. > > You are WHAT???? Do tell your reasoning here! I set out to assemble the most minimal rig possible. With the retrospect of 400 dives in a tech BC and 600 dives in a BP/W, in all conditions, I decided that on some (or -most-) dives, I don't need a full secondary necklaced regulator. The truest essence of DIR -or- Hogarthianism, is true minimalism. Let's not take what we don't need... Right? I've used a lift bag scores of times on a warm water drift dive- I kept it. I've used the octo, in this situation, once, in 1000 dives. So we can minimalize that. Since 99% of the divers in the water only have a 30-33" reg to donate, as will I, and since we're going to call the dive on the spot, I just need a reg, for myself, to get me up. No problem. :-) The sport rig I have mostly done now has two hoses, no SPG. Anything else is arguably unnecessary for a warm water, hi-viz dive. Other dives (tech or training) would have other requirements. Off the top of my head, the only other two times I had to donate a reg was with (and to) studii. SignaturePopeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience. You're probably not going to like the results. I used to be a big fan of inflator/alternates. I used the old style SeaQuest Air Source. I liked it a lot better than the Air II. The problem using it with my current configuration is that, to be comfortable in use, the inflator hose has to be a bit longer than normal so that you can turn your head enough to see an OOA diver that may be on your right. There's a problem keeping even the standard length hose under control, let alone a longer one. I found no practical way to secure it. The necklaced alternate was the best choice I could come up with for my diving. I gave away the combination unit. YMMV. If you really want to have a minimal configuration, why not expect to buddy breathe and eliminate the alternte entirely, just like I did back in the days before I had an alternate, you know, way back in 1991. > The sport rig I have mostly done now has two hoses, no SPG. To do this safely, I think you need a regulator with an unbalanced first stage. That way, you'll have roughly 500 psi in reserve when the regulator gets noticably harder to breathe. That's also how I handled things way back in 1991. Lee >> I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > choice I could come up with for my diving. I gave away the combination > unit. YMMV. I kept the uber-short Halcyon hose, and bungied it down tight to my shoulder strap, like my LPI has always been.. If I ever use the thing, it'll be for a 90 ft ascent to the surface, with the other diver in my right hand. > If you really want to have a minimal configuration, why not expect to > buddy breathe and eliminate the alternte entirely, just like I did back in > the days before I had an alternate, you know, way back in 1991. I would consider it if I had the same buddy all the time. Limey Dave, IIRC, has no octo of any kind, and it didn't bother me, as his buddy, in the slightest. >> The sport rig I have mostly done now has two hoses, no SPG. > > To do this safely, I think you need a regulator with an unbalanced first > stage. That way, you'll have roughly 500 psi in reserve when the > regulator gets noticably harder to breathe. That's also how I handled > things way back in 1991. I was considering a J valve. SignaturePopeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com >>> I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience. >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > I was considering a J valve. Popeye, I have one on that old steel 72 in my garage that you saw. Bit old, but works. The 72 is a bit small though :) Dan > Popeye > "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was > going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. > > www.finalprotectivefire.com > I have one on that old steel 72 in my garage that you saw. > Bit old, but works. The 72 is a bit small though :) Dan In the old, pre 80 days, we did dives of "about an hour" on 72s. These days, with our 80 cubic foot tanks, we are now do dives of "about an hour." With an 80 cubic foot, 3,000 psi tank (assumes the tank really is 80 cubic feet), returning to the surface with 500 psi reserve (a common requirement by dive operators) gives you about 67 cubic feet of gas for the dive, the same as you get from a 72 at 2650 if you return to the surface with 185 psi. 185 psi, roughly 5 cubic feet of gas, is enough for the average diver (.5 cf/min SAC) to do a 7 minute safety stop at 15 feet. If a safety stop of 7 extra minutes won't get you to the surface safely, you've got dive planning problems you can't solve with a slightly larger tank. For the most part, the difference between an 80 and a 72 is the comfort of the diver operator and his insurance company. They get to impose a larger safety margin. 8^) Lee > I kept the uber-short Halcyon hose, and bungied it down tight to my > shoulder strap, like my LPI has always been.. > If I ever use the thing, it'll be for a 90 ft ascent to the surface, with > the other diver in my right hand. Using the short hose is the only way I know of to effectively control the inflator hose using the harness system. I had a couple of problems with that configuration. One has already been mentioned, the inability to turn my head to the right, where, as you indicate, the other diver is likely to be. The other is the increased complexity of getting the second stage out of the bungie when you need it. That can be more or less of a problem depending on the design of the second stage/inflator you use. Some are, or at least were, larger than others. > Limey Dave, IIRC, has no octo of any kind, and it didn't bother me, as his > buddy, in the slightest. If you're right about Dave, you're more observant than I have been. I'm surprised some operator has not denied him passage, Captain PADI, for example. That is exactly why I bought my first octo and BCD in 1991. The local dive boats would not let me aboard without what they considered to be minimum safe equipment. >> To do this safely, I think you need a regulator with an unbalanced first >> stage. That way, you'll have roughly 500 psi in reserve when the >> regulator gets noticably harder to breathe. That's also how I handled >> things way back in 1991. > I was considering a J valve. Not as minimalist as an unbalanced first stage, but the effect is much the same. I could do most of my diving with my pre-1991 configuration. An 80 cubic foot tank, harness and solid rubber plate and an unbalanced single hose regulator, but I won't. I like my 100 cubic foot tanks, which I can't comfortably use to effect without some kind of buoyancy compensation; I like the multi level, multi dive, flexibility I get with my computer and I like the reaassurance I get from knowing my dive time, depth and no deco time. I like the minimalist approach you've chosen and would not hesitate to dive with you, or anyone else I felt had the knowledge and experience to use such a configuration safely, but I'm not at all likely to return to something like that myself. Lee > I like the minimalist approach you've chosen and would not hesitate to dive > with you, or anyone else I felt had the knowledge and experience to use such > a configuration safely, but I'm not at all likely to return to something > like that myself. Awh, come on, Lee... You've never dove over the side to work on a boat with an even more minimalistic configuration? >> I like the minimalist approach you've chosen and would not hesitate to >> dive >> with you, or anyone else I felt had the knowledge and experience to use >> such >> a configuration safely, but I'm not at all likely to return to something >> like that myself. > Awh, come on, Lee... You've never dove over the side to work on a boat > with an even more minimalistic configuration? Actually, I do it pretty frequently. The setup I carry when cruising on the boat is a 40, usually filled with 50% since it's one of my deco tanks, a plastic plate and a single hose regulator with no octopus, etc. It has a button gauge, but might as well not, for all the good it does me while using it. I have a couple of expensive, but convenient, weights that slip over the waist belt and camlock into place. Before I bought the plastic backpack to replace the ones I gave away years ago, I sometimes tied a rope to the tank and slung it over my shoulder. I've even been known to leave the tank on the boat, using my 60 or 80, or however long it is, hose to work under the boat. I would not, however, call that a chosen configuration or call what I do with it, a dive. Lee >>> I, however, am looking to employ one myself, for convenience. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >will I, and since we're going to call the dive on the spot, I just need a >reg, for myself, to get me up. I used to have a 32" octo hose. After doing an OOA ascent with Carol I bought a 6 foot hose. A short hose basically tries to twist the reg out of the recipeiint's mouth. > No problem. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Off the top of my head, the only other two times I had to donate a reg was >with (and to) studii. Signaturedillon JAFO > I set out to assemble the most minimal rig possible. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Let's not take what we don't need... Right? Well, get rid of the BC or perhaps switch to a horse collar manually inflated one... Don't need an octo or an SPG... Hell, just use a J-valve to tell you when to surface... Maybe put one of the button SPGs in your low pressure port instead... Mount the tank on a sling and carry it over one shoulder... Or maybe put two slings on it and wear it like a backpack... No backplate, just a hose clamp with a couple of D-rings on it to attach some snap bolts for the shoulder straps... Hell, I've made dives with less that this when it was necessary to work on the bottom of a boat without taking it out of the water... > > Let's not take what we don't need... Right? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > couple of D-rings on it to attach some snap bolts for the shoulder > straps... Years ago...where's my logbooks? Ah, July 6th, 1990, which also happened to also be my first day with an UW camera. We were on a 3-tanker and was killing time at an SI at "One Fathom Wall" (South Hole Sound) in Little Cayman with Frank Slifka (NAUI #7923) Captaining "Squirt Gun Fever". Frank decided to take a dip with the hookah rig, so he grabbed mask, fins, and the bare AL80 with 1st & 2nd stage. Grabbing it by the valve, he held it straight out in front of him as if it were a DPV, and with such a minimal cross-section, he fairly well flew through the water, faster than the suface swimmers. Been always wanting to try that sometime myself. -hh >>> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the >>> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > * The only time I can think of where I have seen an AirII as an advantage was when one of my instructor colleagues used one to demonstrate dumping air from the BC. It didn't matter whether he had any air in his BC to dump all he needed to do was raise the inflator hose and push the purge button. This would release a healthy load of air and students would see this as air being released from his BC. jon >> I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the >> near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > That's after 600+ dives with a long hose, and bungied A "dangler" seems more of a problem than the "integrated alt air" (and long hose :) ) that I use. It does cut down one hose, and I carry a spare alt air plus an extra LP hose. A decent quality octo will breath "OK" but you really do need to use it so you KNOW how it responds. Good diving, Dan I've been using one since around 6-700 dives also. Breathes fabulous and dry down to 145 (needs 2B serviced by the best, if not, it is only "decent"). Got one of those sea cure mouthpieces for extra security (yup, hose is a bit short). Yup, primary gets donated (or ripped out of my mouth by) the panicked, OOA diver with the big eyes. Air2 is real easy to find, never have to look for it. I ONLY dump air via the pull hose. Nice and compact, no worries, no regrets. Oh, it's a bailout reg for a couple of rebreathers also, and them boys play for keeps. SignatureRapid Rick "Just Dive, Baby" "Popeye" <Popeye@Finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in message ... > As far as a downside, an "integrated octo", commonly called an "Air II" > (although that -is- a particular brand), requires different training and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > That's after 600+ dives with a long hose, and bungied secondary. > I've been using one since around 6-700 dives also. Breathes fabulous and > dry down to 145 (needs 2B serviced by the best, if not, it is only [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh, it's a bailout reg for a couple of rebreathers also, and them boys > play for keeps. That jives with my research, and how I pictured it. I took Scubapro training on the rebuild. The Seacure is a good idea. I love this place. > I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the > near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving > location or do many places have weighted bags you can use? I find weight pockets - and the BCs that take them - bulky, draggy, and complicated, but others love them. Suggest you try both before you make an expensive commitment. > I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated > into the BCD (on one's left side) instead of the typical right-side > "dangling" octopus. Is there any downside to this type of octo and do > you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated > octopus or can you retrofit any BCD to become integrated with an > octopus? An octo does not have to dangle, in fact it should not. It should be clipped off in the front or at the right waist (as should the console/spg). As a practical matter, you'll never use the octo except to take a rescue or dm course, and the integrated ones do make for a cleaner rig. They can be retrofitted to any rig, as they are in series with the low pressure inflator hose. m > The BCD's with the pockets for weights "appear" to be easier to deal They aren't. Some are good. BOB is SP KnightHawk. The *new* DiveRites are also good. DiveRite used to have horrible I-weight. The New system is as good as or better than the SP. > with than weight belts which I find to be a pain. I get the impression Weight belts don't cost much to dump. They don't have expensive parts that need replacement. They don't make your gear heavy while you change tanks. > though, that you'd have to transport the weights to your diving No. All good WI systems accomodate hard weights. Avoid anything that has a ripcord like it's coughing blood and bleeding from the eyes. |> I am also interested in having the BCD include the octopus integrated BOB is Atomic SSI, with SP Air II (Now in 3rd/4th generation). The Tusa Duo Air is a licensed clone of the the SP, but no the latest generation, but very reliable. > Is there any downside to this type of octo and do Minor. The detractors will all cite some stuff about difficulty managing buoyancy on ascent. They might lack experience with the product or have far too much experience with OOA . They could just abbreviate their position and say "I don't like them". First, a correctly weighted warm water diver can dump all air at the bottom before ascent begins and fin to the surface. This will maximize control over all-important ascent speed. Second, virtually all good BCs have shoulder dumps. You don't need to use your inflator hose to dump air. Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up" button to them and they're out of air. Another minor issue is that they generally use a non-std QDC. Because they breathe, they want larger diameter air passages, thus the larger QDC. It's not that big a deal really. It turns out that even the small bores are not standard, and pretty much everybody has adapters. > you need to buy a specific type of BCD to include the integrated Generally no. The SSI will fit anything. The SP AirII and Tusa will fit almost anything. The original SP AirII (20+ years ago) was finicky, hard to breathe, hard to tune, and had a reputation (deserved but caused by bad tuning)) for free-flowing. All of that left a bad impression for some. Japanese cars used to be the same way. Progress, you know? Modern designs like the SSI are as easy to breathe as a primary, and are more rugged and reliable than classic 2nd stage designs. They simplify your rig and eliminate an LP Hose along with a dangler. Less maintenance, less fuss *and* your inflator gets serviced when your regulator does. Some people like it, some people don't. If you like it, there's no reason not to get one. It's not for technical/overhead use and its probably not a great idea for those that dive in frigid water. The technical issue is irrelevant to a recreational diver. Should you ever acquire technical training, you will get a dedicated special purpose rig for it. Buying all your stuff today as though you'll be one tomorrow, bestows you with the most dreaded of monickers: "Techie-wannabe". bullshark > Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any > buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC > is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which > is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep > their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up" > button to them and they're out of air. As you note, they're out of air. It's a bit difficult to add gas to their BCD if necessary. In such a situation, manual inflation or their BCD would not be my first choice. In truth, you had it right before this point. Those that think it makes it hard to manage inflation probably do not have enough experience with the product to do it easily. When I had one, I did not find it to be a problem. The only problem I found with the combination units came with my change to a plate, wing and harness configuration. A slightly longer than standard inflator hose, the one that's part of the BCD, is not easily controlled when wearing a harness like mine. Someone who can overcome this problem might well find they like the unit as much as other options. That was not the case for me. I prefer the necklaced, shorter hose alternate option. YMMV. > Some people like it, some people don't. If you like it, there's no > reason not to get one. Yep. > It's not for technical/overhead use . . . Why not? If it can be secured adequately, it's just as easy to locate and use as the one I currently wear under my chin. Either way, I'm going to use the alternate and hand off the primary. I'm not sure I see a safety difference. Lee > > Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any > > buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > BCD if necessary. In such a situation, manual inflation or their BCD would > not be my first choice. See folks? Here is a diver who is not even out of air, or panicked, and he thinks the inflator button is a f.cking elevator. Bad Lee. Bad Lee. Stop that. As ambient declines, a reserve supply appears in even the most empty tank. bullshark >> > Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any >> > buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC >> > is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which >> > is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep >> > their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up" >> > button to them and they're out of air. >> As you note, they're out of air. It's a bit difficult to add gas to >> their >> BCD if necessary. In such a situation, manual inflation or their BCD >> would >> not be my first choice. > See folks? Here is a diver who is not even out of air, or panicked, and > he thinks the inflator button is a f.cking elevator. Bad Lee. Bad Lee. > Stop that. If that were true, it would, indeed be bad. That's not what I said. Most divers who dump the gas from their BCD become negative. Going negative myself and having no gas to put into the OOA diver's BCD still would not be my first choice. > As ambient declines, a reserve supply appears in even the most empty > tank. Yep, 14.7 psi for every 33 feet. That's better than nothing if you're sucking on a nearly empty tank. Been there and done that. It's not much for buoyancy control. Regardless, I still agree that a combination unit is quite workable even in an emergency situation. I believe it enough to have used one for about 8 years. Lee "bullshark" <bullshark@gmail.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :First, a correctly weighted warm water diver can dump all air at the :bottom before ascent begins and fin to the surface. This will maximize :control over all-important ascent speed. Way too much work for those of us who dive for fun. Plus, being neutral gives me more control than being negative. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > "bullshark" <bullshark@gmail.com> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Plus, being > neutral gives me more control than being negative. What a Canadian response. Gee, ascending neutral. Why the f.ck didn't I think of that? How do you do that? Do you have to dump air as you ascend? How do you do that if your inflator/regulator is in your mouth? Maybe you didn't read the post or I may not have been clear enough. I was referring to managing ascent when there is a diver sharing air with you. bullshark > Gee, ascending neutral. Why the f.ck didn't I think of that? > How do you do that? Do you have to dump air as you ascend? > How do you do that if your inflator/regulator is in your mouth? Push the button? When vertical, as I would be when assisting an OOA diver to the surface, my mouth is above my wing. Failing that, there's always the shoulder dump which is pretty easy to pull even with the regulator in your mouth. I don't know why you're getting excited about his response. I'm quite sure you'd find a way to ascend neutral or near neutral in the situation you described. It's probably not so easy for those that dive with a lot of weight, but it's pretty simple for those of us that stick to warm water. Lee > "bullshark" <bullshark@gmail.com> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Way too much work for those of us who dive for fun. Plus, being > neutral gives me more control than being negative. Depends on how negative you are. Lee > They aren't. Some are good. BOB is SP KnightHawk. The *new* DiveRites > are also good. DiveRite used to have horrible I-weight. The New system > is as good as or better than the SP. But they still can be pretty bulky. I find that with my Knighthawk is so, plus its back inflation combined with the mass of my UW Camera held in front of me is fine on a dive, but on the surface, it rocks me forward (face down) much more than I like. Next time I'll be diving, I'll have a new weight pouch on my tank strap to try to move my CG even further back. Since I'm already not using the weight pouches and its pockets suck, I'm debating if there's an easy and non-destructive way to make an insert to convert the weight pouch pockets into regular pockets. > Weight belts don't cost much to dump. They don't have expensive parts > that need replacement. They don't make your gear heavy while you change > tanks. And you can also position a few pounds in the small of your back, which puts them further rearward than the typical integrated BC pocket's location. > Last, but not least, this is technically a rescue situation. If any > buoyancy needs managing, you manage your victims inflator, and your BC > is empty. Two people managing buoyancy on ascent (one or both of which > is panicked) is a recipe for trouble. Dump yours, manage theirs. Keep > their inflator button out of their hands. It looks just like an "Up" > button to them and they're out of air. Historically, this is more likely due to too many attempted rescuers getting themselves to the surface without their victim, where they then have to live with (and try to explain) how the negatively buoyant victim "slipped away from them". By making the victim buoyant, if there's rescuer/victim separation, the victim floats up due to physics alone. This might result in a bad rapid ascent and additional health problems, but it is the lesser evil in comparison to the alternative of sinking and thus being lost to the depths where death is a virtual certainty. -hh I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove and put the weights in. Never used soft pouch weights, but I imagine they would be able to be used. I also have a spare air and not an octopus. Works extreamly well and would probably never fo back to an octopus wetup (no desire to do cave or wreck diving). Just make sure that you explain to who ever your buddy is how the system works in case of an emergency. Dave > I need some recommendations for equipment that I hope to buy in the > near future for warm water diving. Excuse my newbie terminology. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sy >I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove and >put the weights in. Never used soft pouch weights, but I imagine they would >be able to be used. I also have a spare air and not an octopus. Works >extreamly well and would probably never fo back to an octopus wetup (no >desire to do cave or wreck diving). Just make sure that you explain to who >ever your buddy is how the system works in case of an emergency. Can you make an ascent from 60 feet and safely make a 5 minute stop at 15 feet on a Spare Air? Thought not. Either get a pony or put the octo on. Spare Air doesn't get you much. The Navy uses them for the helicopter pilots, but that's about the only valid use I see for them. >Dave >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Sy > Signaturedillon JAFO >>I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove >>and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > octo on. Spare Air doesn't get you much. The Navy uses them for the > helicopter pilots, but that's about the only valid use I see for them. I was thinking about getting one for the truck. >>Can you make an ascent from 60 feet and safely make a 5 minute stop at >>15 feet on a Spare Air? Thought not. Either get a pony or put the >>octo on. Spare Air doesn't get you much. The Navy uses them for the >>helicopter pilots, but that's about the only valid use I see for them. > > I was thinking about getting one for the truck. Filled with starting fluid, might make sense. Useless for topping up tires. >>>Can you make an ascent from 60 feet and safely make a 5 minute stop at >>>15 feet on a Spare Air? Thought not. Either get a pony or put the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Filled with starting fluid, might make sense. Useless for topping up > tires. I wasn't gonna huff the thing, fer christsake, I meant for subaquatic egress... SignaturePopeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > > Filled with starting fluid, might make sense. Useless for topping up > > tires. > > I wasn't gonna huff the thing, fer christsake, I meant for subaquatic > egress... They use ether out here in the dunes all the time. It's one of the only ways you can seat a bead. > Filled with starting fluid, might make sense. Useless for > topping up tires. Fill it with liquid CO2 and it might be acceptable... For a big truck though, I would carry more than that... Hell, I carry a 20# CO2 tank for my Jeep and truck... > ...Spare Air doesn't get you much. The Navy uses them for the > helicopter pilots, but that's about the only valid use I see for them. Actually, the US Navy *used* to use them as their HEED (Helicopter Emergency Egress Device). If memory serves, it was around a --> decade <-- ago that they put the HEED up for competition. The result was that Submersible Systems's Spare Air lost the contract to US Divers. -hh >> ...Spare Air doesn't get you much. The Navy uses them for the >> helicopter pilots, but that's about the only valid use I see for them. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >HEED up for competition. The result was that Submersible Systems's >Spare Air lost the contract to US Divers. Thanks for the correction. So, there are NO valid uses for Spare Air. >-hh Signaturedillon JAFO > >If memory serves, it was around a --> decade <-- ago that they put the > >HEED up for competition. The result was that Submersible Systems's > >Spare Air lost the contract to US Divers. > > Thanks for the correction. So, there are NO valid uses for Spare Air. My kids loved playing in the bathtub with them. > > >If memory serves, it was around a --> decade <-- ago that they put the > > >HEED up for competition. The result was that Submersible Systems's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > My kids loved playing in the bathtub with them. Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Did you ever let them see Baywatch? * >> >If memory serves, it was around a --> decade <-- ago that they put the >> >HEED up for competition. The result was that Submersible Systems's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >My kids loved playing in the bathtub with them. When I was a kid, I had to supply my own bubbles. Signaturedillon JAFO > I have both. My BCD is an older type with velcro. Very easy to remove > and put the weights in. Never used soft pouch weights, but I imagine they > would be able to be used. I also have a spare air and not an octopus. > Works extreamly well and would probably never fo back to an octopus wetup > (no desire to do cave or wreck diving). Or anyplace, depth or time where a direct ascent to the surface might kill you or your buddy. I have no problem with a Spare Air. I have not problem with no octopus. I have a big problem with anyone that thinks a Spare Air is a substitute for an octopus. > Just make sure that you explain to who ever your buddy is how the system > works in case of an emergency. So that your buddy has a chance to find a new buddy before somebody actually needs to depend on you for help. Lee |
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