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Scuba Forum / General / July 2006What course to take?
Hey, I live up in quebec canada and have always wanted to scuba dive. i have some free time this summer so i was looking into getting my scuba certification, i just have a couple of questions for you guys.. up here whats offered is the padi open water course which costs $399 and includes one intensive weekend of theory and pool dives, followed by a second weekend of five open water dives, all rentals, books, etc.. included in price. for $200 more you can get your padi adventure in diving course (which they also call advanced open water course) but have to pay $89 for rental gear for those dives, its a third weekend with 5 dives. and for $100 more, you can get your dry suit certification. my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the advanced course? what about the dry suit certification? and finally, i have a mask and snorkel, mask is a look US divers with prescription lenses.. i just need to get fins, is there anything i should be looking for in particular? anything to avoid or is it pretty much a no-brainer? thanks! > my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the > advanced course? what about the dry suit certification? and finally, i > have a mask and snorkel, mask is a look US divers with prescription > lenses.. i just need to get fins, is there anything i should be looking > for in particular? anything to avoid or is it pretty much a no-brainer? > thanks! Take all the courses and get fins big enough to fit over your drysuit boots. > Take all the courses and get fins big enough to fit over your drysuit boots. And of course, he needs to buy a full set of gear, including tanks... I've heard the PST X7-100s recommended favorably... Others tend to like the low pressure tanks better (and then fill them above their service rating)... Definitely he should buy some tanks... Hell, he needs at least 2 of them... > > Take all the courses and get fins big enough to fit over your drysuit boots. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > service rating)... Definitely he should buy some tanks... Hell, he > needs at least 2 of them... well i don't know how often i'm going to be scuba diving, i just know that i want to do it.. i was thinking i would just rent equipment, the way i see it renting the equipment for a day won't cost much more than a ski lift ticket or an nice round of golf :) >>>Take all the courses and get fins big enough to fit over your drysuit boots. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > way i see it renting the equipment for a day won't cost much more than > a ski lift ticket or an nice round of golf :) Grummy was joking. The first mistake most new divers make is dumping a lot of money into gear that does not suit their needs and ends up for sale real cheap. Rent, borrow. As for the courses, I'd suggest you get a little experience before you take the advanced course. m > >>>Take all the courses and get fins big enough to fit over your drysuit boots. > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > m I'm with Mike on that one. Buy a mask and snorkel.. That way the mask fits and you are compfortable with it. Some places make you buy fins and the weight belt and weights as well. Rent what you can until you see how much you like scuba. In fact, rent different brands to see which gear suits you best with your body size and diving habits. Then if you like diving a lot and want to spend more money, buy body fit items first (fins, dry-suit in Canada, and BC). Then get the regulator/gauge package if you still have money burning a hole in your pocket. You have to do a LOT of local diving before tanks become a worthwhile investment. Having them inspected every year and Hydrostatic testing every 5 years is a big expense. I know. I own 8 tanks. William > Hey, I live up in quebec canada and have always wanted to scuba dive. i > have some free time this summer so i was looking into getting my scuba [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > for in particular? anything to avoid or is it pretty much a no-brainer? > thanks! It's not a bad deal, but a little rushed and pricey. The $399 for OW is okay if that's what your market bears (t'would be a good price around East Tennessee), but the $200/89/100 is a bit of a rip, for 5 dives that come with little or no instruction. Around here, Drysuit Class is a 16 hour + pool, two-weekend event, I'm curious how they fold it in with AOW in 5 dives. The key factor on whether it's a value is if the instructor is any good, which is hard for you, as the uninitiated, to judge. Do you, perchance, know any (several would be nice) of their former students? Are there -any- other options open to you? Conventional wisdom states that you should wait for a few (dozen) dives in between Open Water and Advanced Open Water. It's my personal and minority opinion that this may not always be the case, depending on what diving is available. Find out, and tell us, more. You could spend a lot of money here, and not be correctly trained for a sport that can have lethal consequences.  SignaturePopeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com well i found another place, these two would be the biggest in town, prices are pretty much the same. the one i am and was orignally looking at have their own pool and are actually five blocks away from me.. here's their website with the info: http://www.totaldiving.com/en/ i think it has some staff info and their qualifications/certifications.. they said the drysuit option meant you could simply do your open water in a wet suit and then do the additional 5 advanced dives in the drysuit, i'm sure there's some extra theory in there somewhere, i didn't really ask. i don't know anyone that scuba dives or any of their former students. i have no trouble waiting between open water and advanced, its just you save money with the package deal so if its something i should get, will inevitably get, and there's no downside to doing it in the same summer as my open water then i'd probably go for it just for the $100 savings. > > Hey, I live up in quebec canada and have always wanted to scuba dive. i > > have some free time this summer so i was looking into getting my scuba [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > www.finalprotectivefire.com > well i found another place, these two would be the biggest in town, > prices are pretty much the same. the one i am and was orignally looking [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > doing it in the same summer as my open water then i'd probably go for > it just for the $100 savings. They got a nice website, but the OW page is down. The drysuit thing concerns me, it takes pool time, and skills training, as well as theory. If they just pop you in a suit for AOW, give you a ten minute lecture, and put you in the water, that's dangerous as hell. A drysuit can hurt you, and they (usually) require separate training, and a separate c-card, for -good- reason. Plus, you're paying for instruction you're not getting. Make sure you get a manual for every class you pay for, and that all the subject matter in it is covered. Myself, especially if organizing a dive for yourself isn't easy (time, location, buddy, ect), I'd do the AOW and Drysuit gleefully. If diving is readily available to you, you may save money and receive more benefit from just diving instead. But it sounds like you've got more questions to ask, especially about the "drysuit class". You should question them thoroughly, and they should answer gleefully, to your full satisfaction. If they don't, why would you consider hiring them as professional instructors? SignaturePopeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > The drysuit thing concerns me, it takes pool time, and skills training, as > well as theory. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A drysuit can hurt you, and they (usually) require separate training, and > a separate c-card, for -good- reason. Absolutely not a good thing to toss an AOW student into a drysuit without drysuit training. However, the state of drysuit training, i.e., using the suit for buoyancy, is less than optimal. I've straightened out a couple guys who couldn't control their buoyancy etc. and it was because of how they were using the suit. -Tim > They got a nice website, but the OW page is down. http://www.totaldiving.com/en/training/2diver/aow.php http://www.totaldiving.com/pdf/CoursePriceList.pdf > The drysuit thing concerns me, it takes pool time, and skills training, as > well as theory. If they just pop you in a suit for AOW, give you a ten minute lecture, > and put you in the water, that's dangerous as hell. i think i'll stick with a wetsuit for the time being. i'll still ask them about it though, just to see what they answer.. i'll also probably put off the advanced certification. thanks for the tips everyone! > my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the > advanced course? No. Absolutely no value to it whatever. Take it only if/when you decide to become Rescue certified. Its a pre-requisite, and thats the only reason to bother. There are no significant skills taught there that you won't pick up on your own just by doing some diving with other people. > what about the dry suit certification? Considering where you live, I'd take that before I took open water. (c: But do tell: Do your plans to waste some time this summer include spending US $1000-1500 on a Drysuit? If not, then it would be pretty much a waste of money. >and finally, i > have a mask and snorkel, mask is a look US divers with prescription > lenses.. i just need to get fins, is there anything i should be looking > for in particular? Shoes. You *have* tried on shoes before, haven't you? You're going to need booties. Warm ones. Buy them first. Make sure they fit well (tight). Make sure the fin fits the booties. Be very wary of heavy duty soles. Avoid Bio-fins or any split-fin like the gimmick they are. The sales staff will regale you with all kinds of fairy tales. Its all bullshit. Fins is fins and splits aren't. (P.F. Flyers: Did you really run faster, or jump higher?) Do not be fascinated with Skiboot-like buckles and snaps. They don't help you dive. Most popular reasonable fins: Mares Quattros Best Fin for the money: Turtles Avoid gimmicky stuff, keep to US$100 or less and you'll be fine. Actually, the cheaper the better. If you stick with diving your tastes/needs will change. Cheap fins will let you adapt your kit without pain. bullshark Do not buy Red fins. Red Fins are for strokes. You may buy only Royal-Blue, or Yellow. Black is OK too. Note: "Yellow" is not chartreuse or funky bright green. > Shoes. You *have* tried on shoes before, haven't you? > You're going to need booties. Warm ones. Buy them first. Make sure they [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > tastes/needs will change. > Cheap fins will let you adapt your kit without pain. anything i should know about booties? reccomendations? things to avoid besides heavy duty soles? regarding the fins, the quattros seem to be pretty well regarded, i guess i'll probably end up with a pair of those, i'll try them out first of course.. on ebay there are mares plana avanti quattro and mares quattro excel, i guess the plana avanti quattro are the older version? the excels seem to cost quite a bit more.. any noticable difference? thanks! > on ebay there are mares > plana avanti quattro and mares quattro excel, i guess the plana avanti > quattro are the older version? the excels seem to cost quite a bit > more.. any noticable difference? thanks! Assuming you're going to be diving in water cold enough that you need thermal protection, the full foot fins, which cost about half what the strap and pocket version does, are not for you. If you're going to be diving only in warm water, the full foot version is not only cheaper, it's better. It transfers energy more effectively. Lee > > on ebay there are mares > > plana avanti quattro and mares quattro excel, i guess the plana avanti [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lee i'll be in cold water especially although i'd like to take some trips down south eventually.. but neither of the models i mentionned appear to be full foot.. it looks like one is a new model and one is an old model? http://images.google.com/images?q=plana+avanti+quattro&hl=en&sourceid=mozilla-se arch&start=0 http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=avanti+quattro+excel&btnG=Search whoops i meant to link to direct pictures: quattro excel: http://www.tauchshop.ch/images/quattro-excel.jpg plana avanti quattro: http://sklep.nautica.pl/images/quattro.gif the quattro excel is the only 'quattro' on the mares homepage.. i'm just wondering if there's any benefit to paying $50 more for it vs what looks to be the older model.. > the quattro excel is the only 'quattro' on the mares homepage.. i'm > just wondering if there's any benefit to paying $50 more for it vs what > looks to be the older model.. I have a pair of Quattros and while they are nice, consider the Cressi Spacefrogs. They are stiffer than the Quattros and not the best for flutter kicking (although they *will* propel you if you power your legs), but for frog kicks, they are fantastic. Really "bite" into the water and give powerful propulsion. I paid 50 euros for the Spacefrogs - dont see myself paying "$50 *more*" for any fins. Few fins are worth it. Incidentally, a friend has a pair of Atomic split fins - havent tried them in a current, but in calm water, they are really easy to use. I prefer a little more resistance when I kick, though - but weaker swimmers may find them quite nice. Dunno what they are like in a current, though - my old Volos, bought in a fit of madness, were crap (and that is what led to my "never more than $15 for a mask, and more than $50 for fins" rule). V. > anything i should know about booties? reccomendations? things to avoid > besides heavy duty soles? regarding the fins, the quattros seem to be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > quattro are the older version? the excels seem to cost quite a bit > more.. any noticable difference? thanks! I like thick soled booties, because I tend to were them like shoes on dive days. SignaturePopeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > anything i should know about booties? reccomendations? Fit fit fit. > things to avoid besides heavy duty soles? You don't have to avoid them, just be wary. Some of them could exclude a fin you want. This is a give and take thing. In the best of all worlds, your bootie completely fills the fin pocket. No slosh, no wiggle. Fool around with different kinds and combinations. In other words, don't choose a bootie because it looks cool. Choose it because it give you the best fit with the fins. If a soft sole puts get you in a "medium" and a hard sole pushes you up to a "Large", I'd take the soft sole, because it's clearly giving you tighter linkage. bullshark > my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the > advanced course? what about the dry suit certification? Most, but not all of us think that it's a good idea to spend some time diving between taking the entry level course and the advanced course. When it comes down to it, it's a choice only you can make based on your comfort level at the end of the entry level course. I'm not a dry suit diver, but I understand there's enough to learn to make a course worthwhile. Others, who actually dive in dry suits, probably have better advice. > and finally, i have a mask and snorkel, mask is a look US divers with > prescription > lenses.. i just need to get fins, is there anything i should be looking > for in particular? anything to avoid or is it pretty much a no-brainer? > thanks! It's far from a no brainer. The only thing for sure about buying fins is that you'll want some that will fit with your thermal protection. Than means some kind of fin with straps. The two most popular are probably Scuba Pro Jet Fins and Mares Quatros. Jet Fins are 40 year old technology, but are still popular. Quatros are newer technology and may well be more popular. Lee > my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the > advanced course? I'm generally a big fan of teaching the advanced course right after the open water (think of it as OW Pt 2, rather than "Advanced"). After 4-5 dives, things like buoyancy, etc. are *starting* to click for you - however, it isnt ingrained in your muscle memory yet. Do 5 more dives for your advanced, however, and it all falls into place much better. To set your expectations - the Advanced course is merely a shortcut to gaining some additional experience with an instructor. It doesnt make you an advanced diver per se. Diving courses introduce you to the skills that you need to master - however, mastery will depend on you and comes with one thing: diving. Do lots of dives: that's the best - I'd say "ONLY" - way to become a good diver. > what about the dry suit certification? mmmmeh. I think paying $100 for a dry suit cert is a waste of time, personally. When you buy your dry suit, you should get a pool orientation to how it works (purge valve, etc). If you arent getting this, ask your shop for one. For the money you are spending there, this would be a bare minimum freebie to give you. Go out to shallow water (10-15') and practice floating upside down righting yourself and purging the suit. Else do 1 dry suit dive as part of your advanced and then practice on your own. Whatever you do, dont spend so much on courses that you cannot afford to dive for a while. V. >> my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the >> advanced course? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > however, it isnt ingrained in your muscle memory yet. Do 5 more dives > for your advanced, however, and it all falls into place much better. That's right. >> what about the dry suit certification? > > Go out to shallow water (10-15') and practice floating upside down > righting yourself and purging the suit. Else do 1 dry suit dive as > part of your advanced and then practice on your own. You can go to the pool and practice. The water is warmer and you'll appreciate that if you're doing what you're supposed to do. Twist and turn in the suit until you determine your seal limits. Rest on the bottom and carefully inflate until you are neutral. Deflate when surfacing and practice ascending slowly. Hit the inflator button and keep swimming down as hard as you can until one or both of your fins pop off. Practice disconnecting the inflator hose. Have fun doing stupid stuff. When you're done you'll have a much better feel for the drysuit but you're still not a drysuit diver. Your first dives you still need to be careful for behavior changes at depth and with weighting and insulation. Don't use insulation in the pool as you'll be cooking if you're doing it right. I'm thinking you can do the exercises in a rental drysuit you can use when you take the drysuit course. > Hit the inflator button and keep swimming down >as hard as you can until one or both of your fins pop off. Don't try this if you're using a DUI dry suit with rockboots. You'd look like the Michelin Man but your fins still wouldn't pop off. I find a dry suit to be fantastically more comfortable than a wet suit. However, most places don't rent dry suits. Unless you're planning to buy a dry suit, it probably doesn't pay to take a dry suit course. SignatureRon (user ron in domain spamblocked.com) I took OW and OW II back to back, but that was because I was leaving on a trip to St. Thomas and wanted to have more than 4 dives under by belt before I got on a dive boat. I'm not sure that I got much more than 6 more dives in my log, but it was good additional experience in a short time. I was comfortable on the boat, but not over-confident, so I had a good trip. It worked for me, but there are good arguments for waiting as well. >> my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the >> advanced course? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >V. >> my question is, is it reccomended to spend the extra money and get the >> advanced course? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >however, it isnt ingrained in your muscle memory yet. Do 5 more dives >for your advanced, however, and it all falls into place much better. I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very much:-) and I did them with different dive shops (as well as different certifying bodies), just to get multiple perspectives on diving and feedback on my diving. >To set your expectations - the Advanced course is merely a shortcut to >gaining some additional experience with an instructor. It doesnt make >you an advanced diver per se. I would definitely agree with that. Getting an AOW diver cert right after getting one's OW is like winning a state championship because nobody showed up in your division. >Diving courses introduce you to the skills that you need to master - >however, mastery will depend on you and comes with one thing: diving. >Do lots of dives: that's the best - I'd say "ONLY" - way to become a >good diver. Again, I agree. >> what about the dry suit certification? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >righting yourself and purging the suit. Else do 1 dry suit dive as >part of your advanced and then practice on your own. That makes sense and I thank you for the advice, even though it was meant for someone else. >Whatever you do, dont spend so much on courses that you cannot afford >to dive for a while. Good point. P.S. One of the skills I did was the DPV this weekend...today as a matter of fact. I'm now suffering from "land head", which is what I would describe as the same thing as having land legs after developing one's sea legs when one is on a long boating vacation and then returning to land. But, my awkwardness is now in my head (swimming feeling) only when I sit down. It feels like it wants to swim, the exact same way my legs feel after spending a couple days on the water. <snip> > I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS > fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very > much:-) and I did them with different dive shops (as well as different > certifying bodies), just to get multiple perspectives on diving and > feedback on my diving. Congratulations! Dennis On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 08:48:36 -0500, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkmail@ever.invalid> wrote in rec.scuba: ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Congratulations! Thanks > I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS > fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very > much:-) and I did them with different dive shops (as well as different > certifying bodies), just to get multiple perspectives on diving and > feedback on my diving. Woo hoo! Congratulations! > >> what about the dry suit certification? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >this, ask your shop for one. For the money you are spending there, > >this would be a bare minimum freebie to give you. When you buy a drysuit, ask about the class. If they give you only a pool orientation, find some buddies who dive dry and ask for help Learn to dump and fill, to move the air bubbles around, to right yourself by somersaulting if you invert, etc. You don't need to buy a card to do this if you own your own suit. I regularly do drysuit "mentoring" for a buddy, or for someone who is taking anotehr class and just got their suit, whatever. A card might be needed to rent, however. Ugh. Regarding training: Just hook up with some really good divers who don't mind having you around, and dive. When you need a card for something, like to purchase nitrox or get on a certain boat, find an instructor. You don't ned a card for every little underwater task you master. Now just go diving. I did, today :-) * > A card might be needed to rent, however. > Ugh. On a side note- how many of you ever have to show a card? I've probably had to show my card once in the last 5 years... and I've *never* had to show any of my tech cards to get a fill, ever (except when I choose to, in order to get the DM to let me dive solo). > Regarding training: Just hook up with some really good divers who > don't mind having you around, and dive. That's really good advice. For things like wreck diving, etc. that's probably a better way to learn, as agency courses are too limited in what they can teach (liability, etc.). Vandit >>A card might be needed to rent, however. >> Ugh. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > *never* had to show any of my tech cards to get a fill, ever (except > when I choose to, in order to get the DM to let me dive solo). Local operators tend to be selective: if someone shows up with no gear at all, they will get carded. In the Keys they all want to see one. In Ft. Lauderdale, I was asked once. I keep a card in my drybox just in case, and don't mind showing it when asked. > On a side note- how many of you ever have to show a card? I've > probably had to show my card once in the last 5 years... and I've > *never* had to show any of my tech cards to get a fill, ever (except > when I choose to, in order to get the DM to let me dive solo). It's sporadic. The first time I dove with an operator introduced to me by Mike Gray, one he no longer uses, I got carded. Later, I took a friend to the same operator and he got carded. When he didn't have a card with him, the operator took my word for it. I've been carded each time I've used Silent World. The last time, I got carded twice. They didn't much care for my 1969 NAUI card that said I was certified for "SCUBA." Mike wrote > In the Keys they all want to see one. In Ft. Lauderdale, I was asked once. My experience in the Keys has been mixed. I used to be fairly well known to the operators I used most often. Quite a few of those operators are no longer in business in the Keys, others are no longer in the dive business at all and some, I don't frequent any more, not because they did anything wrong, but because I found other people and places I like better. I'm carded there more often than here. Then again, when I use commercial dive operations here, it's either one I've used before or one those I dive with have used before. Either way, they tend to assume I know what I'm doing. On the other hand, most operators have required me to complete a waiver and, to the best of recollection, they all ask for an agency, certification level and number. Mike also wrote: > I keep a card in my drybox just in case, and don't mind showing it when > asked. I didn't use to carry anything except when I knew I would need it. That was before I spend week sitting in a hotel in Puerto Rico waiting for my turn to testify, on an expense account, with nothing to do, and unable to dive because I didn't have evidence of certification. Immediately upon my return, I scanned a copy of each of my certification cards and printed a copy for everyplace I could think of. There's a copy in my dry box, in my boats, in my cars, in my dive log, in my O2 analyzer and in my wallet. Now that I have one again, a copy will go into the space allocated for my website too. It won't be linked, but I'll know where to find it. In fact, I'll do it now. Lee > I didn't use to carry anything except when I knew I would need it. That was > before I spend week sitting in a hotel in Puerto Rico waiting for my turn > to testify, on an expense account, with nothing to do, and unable to dive > because I didn't have evidence of certification. Oh man, that is harsh. We sometimes get people who dont have their cards with them. If we can verify it online, we do. If not, I ask them to (a) assemble their kit without prompting and (b) do the OW Scuba Review. Then they do one dive with a DM as their buddy, and if that is ok as well, they can continue. If they are able to do both of these, then they obviously know enough about scuba - enough that they also know the consequence of lying. Obviously, we are not as ruled by lawyers down here, much to our West Coast friend's dismay :) Vandit > On a side note- how many of you ever have to show a card? I've > probably had to show my card once in the last 5 years... and I've > *never* had to show any of my tech cards to get a fill, ever (except > when I choose to, in order to get the DM to let me dive solo). I've never had to show the tech card for a fill or a tech charter either, but I have often had to show a card for recreational charters. Legendary in the NE is the day Janet Bieser asked Gary Gentile for his c card... > On a side note- how many of you ever have to show a card? I've > probably had to show my card once in the last 5 years... and I've > *never* had to show any of my tech cards to get a fill, ever (except > when I choose to, in order to get the DM to let me dive solo). I went for over 20 years without showing a C card... I was always able to skate by somehow... Claiming not to have it with me or some other sort of excuse... Was going to make a trip to Cozumel and figured that I wouldn't be able to skate by without a card anymore, so I did a quick rubber stamp course and got certified back in 1999... As it has turned out, I've probably had to show my card at most of the shops in Cozumel... My local shop had me show it initially, but I'm on their computer now so they don't require me to show it anymore... On my trips to Florida, I've had to show it down in the Keys, but not with Dixie Divers up around Deerfield Beach (Fort Lauderdale area)... Fill Express did not ask me for my card either, but when you are bringing in tanks that are older than the fill operator, perhaps they figure that you know what you're doing whether you have a card or not... The cave systems that have commercial operators or state parks associated with them also tend to be more likely to check your certification status... Back in Slidell, there was a fire extinguisher shop that did the hydros that also provided air fills... They didn't care if you had a card or not... In addition, they didn't require a visual inspection on your tanks... > I went for over 20 years without showing a C card... I only went 7. My course was not a rubber stamp, but it would have been had I not been working as a lifeguard and WSI at the county park that offered the course. Back then, in 1969, we weren't sure PADI was going to be around long. They were already turning out divers that, after the course, could not assemble their equipment without help. As I recall, the course cost me $20 for cost of the ride on the instructor/pool manager's boat. > I've probably had to show my card at most of the shops in Cozumel... My > local shop had me show it initially. On my > trips to Florida, I've had to show it down in the Keys. No surprise there. If you'd just stop diving that damned cobbled together sidemount mess you like so much, you'd probably reduce the number of people who ask for a card. Hell, if I was an operator, I think I might take one look at that thing and decline to take you for a ride no matter what your card said. 8^) > The cave systems that have commercial operators or state parks associated > with them also tend to be more likely to check your > certification status. Yes, they do, damn them. In fact, a few of them have different rules for those with the "Right" certification agency. You know which one I mean. While I understand the concept of requiring cavern and cave certifications, it still pisses me off that I'm denied access to cites I was diving in before the agencies that issued the cards they read existed. It also pisses me off that I didn't start an agency of my own back when it was easy to do. > Back in Slidell, there was a fire extinguisher shop that did > the hydros that also provided air fills... They didn't care if you had > a card or not... In addition, they didn't require a visual inspection > on your tanks... Because they're not part of the self regulating dive industry. Good for them. Lee > No surprise there. If you'd just stop diving that damned cobbled together > sidemount mess you like so much, you'd probably reduce the number of people > who ask for a card. Hell, if I was an operator, I think I might take one > look at that thing and decline to take you for a ride no matter what your > card said. 8^) Actually, they card me before actually seeing my configuration... If they saw it first, they might actually think I know what I'm doing... Or at least I'm rather lucky with respect to Darwin claiming me... <grin> > Yes, they do, damn them. In fact, a few of them have different rules for > those with the "Right" certification agency. You know which one I mean. > While I understand the concept of requiring cavern and cave certifications, > it still pisses me off that I'm denied access to cites I was diving in > before the agencies that issued the cards they read existed. It also pisses > me off that I didn't start an agency of my own back when it was easy to do. Maybe we should start our own e-Certification Agency / e-Dive Shop... Certification classes via the internet... A diver would do his open water dives on his own and fill out a web form once he finished it... If he drowns during the open water portion, he flunks... Visual inspections could also be printed out via the internet after the person verified that they had in fact actually seen their tanks... Still haven't quite figured out how to do the the e-Air Fills though... > Because they're not part of the self regulating dive industry. Good for > them. Yeah, "self-regulating" means that you can just come up with any 'rules' that you want in order to maximize your own profit... Of course, 'regulated' just means that the government gets to come up with any rules that they want in order to maximize their profit / feelings of self-importance... > Maybe we should start our own e-Certification Agency / e-Dive Shop... > Certification classes via the internet... A diver would do his open > water dives on his own and fill out a web form once he finished it... > If he drowns during the open water portion, he flunks... Not competitive. You have to have a program that allows your students to try as many times as necessary. Nobody flunks, but some apparently drop out. > Visual inspections could also be printed out via the internet after the > person verified that they had in fact actually seen their tanks... > Still haven't quite figured out how to do the the e-Air Fills > though... >> Because they're not part of the self regulating dive industry. Good for >> them. > Yeah, "self-regulating" means that you can just come up with any > 'rules' that you want in order to maximize your own profit... Of > course, 'regulated' just means that the government gets to come up > with any rules that they want in order to maximize their profit / > feelings of self-importance... The government does not maximize their profit, they maximize your expense. Lee >> No surprise there. If you'd just stop diving that damned cobbled together >> sidemount mess you like so much, you'd probably reduce the number of people [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >with any rules that they want in order to maximize their profit / >feelings of self-importance... In stead of a kleg light or what ever the hell it is the dir folks can't live without, make the student strap a wireless web cam to their head. Then the instructor could see what kills em. <snip> > Regarding training: Just hook up with some really good divers who > don't mind having you around, and dive. When you need a card for > something, like to purchase nitrox or get on a certain boat, find an > instructor. You don't ned a card for every little underwater task you > master. Not according to PADI ;-) > Now just go diving. I did, today :-) > > * Hopefully this sunday..... Dennis > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Not according to PADI ;-) hahaha the one agency through which i do NOT have teaching credentials. > > Now just go diving. I did, today :-) > > > > * > > Hopefully this sunday..... Kewl. I am in self-imposed land-based exile until the dissertation edits are done. Argh. * > > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > * Best of luck! whats the topic? Dennis >> I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS >> fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Woo hoo! Congratulations! Thank You. >> >> what about the dry suit certification? >> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >instructor. You don't ned a card for every little underwater task you >master. Right. I am planning on getting nitrox certified though. I'm going to do that through another shop on the other side of town. The owner is supposed to be one of the better tech instructors in the country, according to my OW and AOW instructor. He's also selling his business so I feel almost compelled to get some other tech training yet this year. >Now just go diving. I did, today :-) I'm on call for the next week. Bummer. >>> I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS >>> fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> >I'm on call for the next week. Bummer. Ask the instructor how deep his deepest dive was, if he responds with "on what gas" give him a second look, he may be your instructor. > I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS > fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very > much:-) and I did them with different dive shops (as well as different > certifying bodies), just to get multiple perspectives on diving and > feedback on my diving. That probably works just as well, I think. The only "problem" (such as it is) is, of course, if you decide to go for a PADI AOW after 50-60 dives, you are just paying for a C-card, as you will get even less from the course. > That makes sense and I thank you for the advice, even though it was > meant for someone else. My pleasure. Another tidbit, one that I learned after much anguish: never use the dry suit for buoyancy, no matter what they tell you about task loading, etc. I was getting really frustrated with having to do the whole "flap my arms like mad" routine everytime I decided to go head-down, till some kind soul on rec.scuba (IIRC) gave me this handy tip. Vandit > I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS > fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very > much:-) and I did them with different dive shops (as well as different > certifying bodies), just to get multiple perspectives on diving and > feedback on my diving. Dang, we just minted another "Knowledgable Consumer". Its going to ruin the dive industry! :-) Congratulations, John. Glad to see you having fun with this avocation. I predict that your next important step will come after your trip down to warm water in Florida. It won't be your first dive back in coldwater after that, but if there will ever be a 2nd coldwater dive after that :-) ;-) -hh > > I had the same philosophy, for the most part. But, I did 6 or 7 LDS > > fun dives between my OW and AOW (just got that today, thank you very [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > coldwater after that, but if there will ever be a 2nd coldwater dive > after that :-) ;-) There are some advantages to cold water diving - ex: swimming witth the Sea lions in a Channel Islands (Santa Barbara, CA) kelp forest. ;-) Dennis >Hey, I live up in quebec canada and have always wanted to scuba dive. i >have some free time this summer so i was looking into getting my scuba [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >for in particular? anything to avoid or is it pretty much a no-brainer? >thanks! I'd just recommend taking the OW, then go diving for a while. You can take the AOW later. UNLESS they teach drysuit in the AOW, then it might be worth it to find out whether you really need one. Then take the drysuit course. The only real way to find out which fins work best for you is to get in the pool with some. Problem is, most shops don't like exposing their merchandise to chlorine. Signaturedillon JAFO |
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