Scuba Forum / General / July 2006
Removing BCD/ Tank etc. before boarding boat
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sytech@yahoo.com - 29 Jun 2006 22:49 GMT I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder to get back on the boat.
It appears to be simple enough to remove the BCD/Tank in the water but was wondering if there is any downside to boarding the boat this way.
Any comments and advice will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sy
 Signature Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com
David In NH - 29 Jun 2006 22:57 GMT > I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a > question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sy The REAL downside is if you leave your weights on and remove the BC. Options that I'd suggest are the following:
1) Remove the weight belt (or weight pockets if using integrated weights) and hand them up to the crew. This will make the tank/BC lifting easier.
2) Figure out why you are getting the back pain in the first place. I have two bad disks in my back and am carrying more body weight than I should be and haven't had any problems from diving. This even includes when I'm diving with up to 36# of lead. Do you have your weights pulling on your back? A possible solution is to use a weight harness to off-load the strain from the lower back to the shoulders.
3) Do what you can to strengthen your back muscles.(This is an obvious solution which I of course DON'T do!)
Good luck.
- David
Popeye - 29 Jun 2006 23:07 GMT > I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a > question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Any comments and advice will be appreciated. Get a jon-line to secure it to the boat.
 Signature Popeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
www.finalprotectivefire.com
Ed - 29 Jun 2006 23:30 GMT ever since I broke a $500 ladder on my boat... this is the ONLY way divers get on to my boat.... We pass weights, BCs then fins.
>>I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a >>question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Get a jon-line to secure it to the boat. Grumman-581 - 29 Jun 2006 23:51 GMT > ever since I broke a $500 ladder on my boat... this is the ONLY way > divers get on to my boat.... We pass weights, BCs then fins. Sounds like a poorly designed (and overpriced) ladder if it couldn't handle the weight of a diver and full gear... How much did the diver and full gear weigh on the person who had the misfortune of breaking it?
I figure that at the *very* worst, one should design a ladder to be able to handle 600 lbs... Let's say 325 for a very large diver and another 200 lbs of gear... Add an extra 75 lbs, just in case you're diving with William Perry...
sytech@yahoo.com - 30 Jun 2006 21:07 GMT Popeye,
Can you explain what a "jon-line" is?
Thanks
> > I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a > > question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > www.finalprotectivefire.com Art Greenberg - 30 Jun 2006 21:45 GMT > Popeye, > > Can you explain what a "jon-line" is? > > Thanks A "jon line" is a device sometimes used by decompressing divers to hook themselves to the anchor line.
What you need is more properly called an "equipment line". This is a sturdy rope, perhaps 3/8-inch or larger braided nylon, with one or more rings attached at the bottom and a loop or other means to secure the top end to the boat, typically to a cleat. It should be positioned and long enough so you can reach it from a position in the water near the ladder, but not so long it can foul the prop (some Captains may prefer that you attach a float to the end to assure that it won't). You would use a double-ended bolt snap or a caribiner to secure your BCD to the ring at the bottom end of the rope, so it isn't lost when you take it off.
 Signature Art Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net
Star - 30 Jun 2006 21:58 GMT > > Popeye, > > > > Can you explain what a "jon-line" is? > > > > Thanks
> A "jon line" is a device sometimes used by decompressing divers to hook > themselves to the anchor line. sytech,
note that at NO time does the diver actually fasten himself to the anchor line. The jon line itself is fastened to the anchor line, then the diver holds the end of the jon line in his hand, or may loop in theough a harness strap and hold the end, so he can let go and get away from the anchor line in a heartbeat if need be.
*
> What you need is more properly called an "equipment line". This is a sturdy > rope, perhaps 3/8-inch or larger braided nylon, with one or more rings [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > caribiner to secure your BCD to the ring at the bottom end of the rope, so it > isn't lost when you take it off. Art Greenberg - 30 Jun 2006 22:24 GMT > sytech, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > strap and hold the end, so he can let go and get away from the anchor line > in a heartbeat if need be. Well, in terms of what "the diver" _ought_ to do, yes. But I've seen lots of divers hard-link themselves to all sorts of things, including an anchor line.
 Signature Art Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net
Star - 30 Jun 2006 22:34 GMT > > sytech, > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Well, in terms of what "the diver" _ought_ to do, yes. But I've seen lots of > divers hard-link themselves to all sorts of things, including an anchor line. Oh, yeah. You're on the Jersey coast, aren't you :-)
*, on the other coast, surrounded by fruits, nuts, and consumers of too much dark-side kool-aid.
Alan Street - 03 Jul 2006 08:02 GMT > Oh, yeah. You're on the Jersey coast, aren't you :-) > > *, on the other coast, surrounded by fruits, nuts, and consumers of too > much dark-side kool-aid. Starbucks??
Star - 03 Jul 2006 15:51 GMT > > Oh, yeah. You're on the Jersey coast, aren't you :-) > > > > *, on the other coast, surrounded by fruits, nuts, and consumers of too > > much dark-side kool-aid. > > Starbucks?? hahaha - Oddly, many PNW'ers will drink just about anything BUT Starbucks.
There are no less than 14 coffee places within 5 miles of my home; 6 of them are Starbucks. And I live between a city and a small town, 3 miles from the nearest one.
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Scott - 03 Jul 2006 15:57 GMT > hahaha - > Oddly, many PNW'ers will drink just about anything BUT Starbucks.
> There are no less than 14 coffee places within 5 miles of my home; 6 > of them are Starbucks. And I live between a city and a small town, 3 > miles from the nearest one. Our closest is 12 miles.
Starbucks is in the milk and pasty business.
Star - 03 Jul 2006 16:28 GMT > > hahaha - > > Oddly, many PNW'ers will drink just about anything BUT Starbucks. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Starbucks is in the milk and pasty business. I'll take Zeitgeist over $bucks any day. Their Chia tea is actually really brewed, not that nasty syrupy stuff the other places use.
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Scott - 03 Jul 2006 17:07 GMT > I'll take Zeitgeist over $bucks any day. Their Chia tea is actually > really brewed, not that nasty syrupy stuff the other places use. Plus all those Starbucks people seem to be brainwashed or cultish somehow; overly enthusiastic and extra nice to the point of being disturbing...
Star - 03 Jul 2006 17:12 GMT > > I'll take Zeitgeist over $bucks any day. Their Chia tea is actually > > really brewed, not that nasty syrupy stuff the other places use. > > Plus all those Starbucks people seem to be brainwashed or cultish somehow; > overly enthusiastic and extra nice to the point of being disturbing... I dunno - the baristas at all the places around here seem to be wayyyy too perky, especially in the wee hours. Mike thinks they arrive at work early enough to simply mainstrean some of the product.
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Grumman-581 - 03 Jul 2006 18:15 GMT > I dunno - the baristas at all the places around here seem to be wayyyy > too perky, especially in the wee hours. Mike thinks they arrive at > work early enough to simply mainstrean some of the product. Starbucks requires their employees to try out every one of their products... It's an insidious plot to get the young kids who work there addicted to caffeine...
Star - 03 Jul 2006 19:29 GMT > > I dunno - the baristas at all the places around here seem to be wayyyy > > too perky, especially in the wee hours. Mike thinks they arrive at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > products... It's an insidious plot to get the young kids who work > there addicted to caffeine Or make them fat. Some of their drinks have several *hundred* calories - but then you did say they only had to try them, so I will hope a sample is all they need to consume.
In the small town, pop. 5000, where i teach, there are 4 latte stands, 1 Starbucks kiosk in the Safeway, and an actual Starbucks store is going in as I type. Its just amazing how many kids, free lunch kids at that, arrive at school carrying large cups of - whatever - from these places.
On a 1-mile stretch of the main drag in my town, I once counted 11 latte stands/coffee shops.
*, gagging over the thought of a coffee beverage that requires more than 5 words to order
ben bradlee - 03 Jul 2006 19:45 GMT > In the small town, pop. 5000, where i teach, there are 4 latte stands, > 1 Starbucks kiosk in the Safeway, and an actual Starbucks store is > going in as I type. Its just amazing how many kids > arrive at school carrying large cups ... A natural consequence.
Grumman-581 - 03 Jul 2006 20:15 GMT > On a 1-mile stretch of the main drag in my town, I once counted 11 > latte stands/coffee shops. Ya'll sure do like your coffee over there... I visited Scott back around 2/2005 (on what was supposed to be a combined ski and dive trip) and noticed that there were coffee shops *everywhere*... Hell, in downtown Seattle, there was one spot where I noticed two Starbucks on the same block... The drive-thru coffee shops are very common... Back when I was in the New Orleans area, coffee shops were not *that* common, but drive-thru daiquiri shops were very common...
Chris Guynn - 03 Jul 2006 21:16 GMT > > hahaha - > > Oddly, many PNW'ers will drink just about anything BUT Starbucks. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Starbucks is in the milk and pasty business. That's funny stuff right there.
Popeye - 01 Jul 2006 06:05 GMT >> Popeye, >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A "jon line" is a device sometimes used by decompressing divers to hook > themselves to the anchor line. http://www.diveriteexpress.com/tools/cutting.shtml#jonline
Ready made, mountable, stowable, easy to use, more than adequate, 15 bucks.
Multi-use.
> What you need is more properly called an "equipment line". This is a > sturdy [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it > isn't lost when you take it off.
 Signature Popeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
www.finalprotectivefire.com
Popeye - 01 Jul 2006 06:16 GMT >>> Popeye, >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Ready made, mountable, stowable, easy to use, more than adequate, 15 > bucks. Make that 40 bucks, at least from Dive Rite Express...
> Multi-use. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> so it >> isn't lost when you take it off. Grumman-581 - 30 Jun 2006 21:53 GMT > Can you explain what a "jon-line" is? It goes to a jon-boat... http://www.1stdirectproducts.com/waco14jonboat.html
nitespark - 30 Jun 2006 22:18 GMT >>Can you explain what a "jon-line" is? > > It goes to a jon-boat... > http://www.1stdirectproducts.com/waco14jonboat.html Oh....All this time I thought it was a line cave divers used to find the underwater outhouse in a silt-out.
Greg Mossman - 30 Jun 2006 00:17 GMT > It appears to be simple enough to remove the BCD/Tank in the water but > was wondering if there is any downside to boarding the boat this way. For you, or for the poor suckers who have to pull your gear out of the water? I hope you're a big tipper.
Ron Lee - 02 Jul 2006 03:52 GMT >> It appears to be simple enough to remove the BCD/Tank in the water but >> was wondering if there is any downside to boarding the boat this way. This is very common in Cozumel.
Ron Lee
Popeye - 02 Jul 2006 05:59 GMT >>> It appears to be simple enough to remove the BCD/Tank in the water but >>> was wondering if there is any downside to boarding the boat this way. > > This is very common in Cozumel. > > Ron Lee Chalk that up as another reason I don't go there.
 Signature Popeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
www.finalprotectivefire.com >
Grumman-581 - 02 Jul 2006 07:45 GMT > Chalk that up as another reason I don't go there. Sometimes one needs to have the right opportunity to practice their Spanish...
"Dos cervezas, por favor"...
I always got a kick out of of when those small local guys want to help me with my gear... Hell, my gear probably weighs more than they do... I can't claim that I'm young anymore, but I'm not so old that having to have help getting back onboard with my gear wouldn't make me feel bad... If the ladder isn't "fin-friendly", I'll hand my fins up, but that's about it... I like to keep my reg in my mouth until I'm very sure that I'm not likely to end up back in the water... The only time I change this rule is when I'm diving off my own boat since it doesn't have a ladder... I'll tie off my gear to a line attached to a cleat and sit on the swim platform which is pretty damn close to water level... I'll haul the stuff in and then put it up on engine cover before I climb back inside... The fins don't come off until I'm sitting on the swim platform...
dweeb - 03 Jul 2006 21:53 GMT > > It appears to be simple enough to remove the BCD/Tank in the water but > > was wondering if there is any downside to boarding the boat this way. > > For you, or for the poor suckers who have to pull your gear out of the > water? I hope you're a big tipper. This highlights that it only helps your back if someone else subsequently hauls it onto the boat. If YOU are going to be lifting it onto the boat either way, then strapped to your back is the way least likely to cause back problems. Ditch the cummerbund design, get a backplate, and adjust your webbing so the weight is carried on your hips, like a backpacker does.
Greg Mossman - 04 Jul 2006 04:19 GMT > This highlights that it only helps your back if someone else > subsequently hauls it onto the boat. If YOU are going to be lifting it > onto the boat either way, then strapped to your back is the way least > likely to cause back problems. Ditch the cummerbund design, get a > backplate, and adjust your webbing so the weight is carried on your > hips, like a backpacker does. Don't backpacks (for backpackers) have cummerbunds?
I've never seen a backpack with a crotch strap.
Lee Bell - 04 Jul 2006 11:59 GMT > Don't backpacks (for backpackers) have cummerbunds?
> I've never seen a backpack with a crotch strap. Mine have waist straps rather than cummerbunds.
I'll have to get them out of the attic and recycle the aluminum in them. The chance of my ever again walking far enough through the swamp to use the ones I have is about 0.
Lee
Chris Guynn - 05 Jul 2006 15:02 GMT > > This highlights that it only helps your back if someone else > > subsequently hauls it onto the boat. If YOU are going to be lifting it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Don't backpacks (for backpackers) have cummerbunds? There's a bit of a difference between a cummerbund and a hip-belt/waist strap.
SpringDiver - 05 Jul 2006 15:41 GMT >> This highlights that it only helps your back if someone else >> subsequently hauls it onto the boat. If YOU are going to be lifting it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I've never seen a backpack with a crotch strap. Yep. Dive Rite has a nice harness with an optional crotch strap. Good for holding everything in place when you're pointing straight down.
http://tinyurl.com/h3jw2
bullshark - 05 Jul 2006 19:20 GMT > Yep. Dive Rite has a nice harness with an optional crotch strap. Good > for holding everything in place when you're pointing straight down. That's not the purpose.
Chris Guynn - 05 Jul 2006 22:50 GMT > > Yep. Dive Rite has a nice harness with an optional crotch strap. Good > > for holding everything in place when you're pointing straight down. > > That's not the purpose. Does it keep your bits from falling out the bottom if you're pointing straight up?
bullshark - 05 Jul 2006 19:18 GMT > Don't backpacks (for backpackers) have cummerbunds? > I've never seen a backpack with a crotch strap. Aren't you supposed to be in Bali?
bullshark
chilly - 07 Jul 2006 01:21 GMT > > Don't backpacks (for backpackers) have cummerbunds? > > I've never seen a backpack with a crotch strap. > > Aren't you supposed to be in Bali? He is in Bali, but the getting there was more of an "adventure" than had oiginaaly been planned. It left him with more than a few hours along the way, that required he find ways to amuse himself.
Regardless, he made it to Bali relatively unscathed and fortunately, again had a few more hours to spare before the boat came to pick him.
We shouldn't be hearing from him (by way of rec.scuba) for a while now.
He's got his sat phone with him though, so I'm to expect at least one call before the boat's back on shore.
Lee Bell - 30 Jun 2006 00:18 GMT > It appears to be simple enough to remove the BCD/Tank in the water but > was wondering if there is any downside to boarding the boat this way. Some. First, you have to clear it with the operator of the boat. He has to provide a means for securing your equipment and, presumably, has to arrange for it to be brought on board. If he's willing, at the very least, the crew deserves a larger than normal tip. If you're planning on lifting your equipment aboard yourself, then you need to reconsider something. Either your back pain is not related to your equipment or you're going to hurt more after tying to lift your equipment aboard than you were after climbing the ladder with it on. It's easier to climb the ladder than bend over and lift the equipment.
Once all the logistics are resolved, there's one more thing to watch out for. Be very sure your BCD will float your equipment. I know it seems a sure thing, but it may not be. Most people are buoyant, meaning that their body is part of the lift system. It's quite possible to have sufficient lift for your equipment and your body, but not your equipment alone. As it happens, my equipment has exactly that characteristic in fresh water. My BCD, even when fully inflated, will not float my tank, plate, regulator, etc. If you have a weight integrated BCD, you may find the same is true of your equipment.
Just a thought, if you're wearing significant weight on a belt, why not trying handing that off before trying handing everything off.
Lee
Dan Bracuk - 30 Jun 2006 04:42 GMT <sytech@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:
:I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a :question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : :Any comments and advice will be appreciated. Depends on the boat, type of ladder, etc. If you have the a type of boat and ladder where you can climb straight up, without bending your back, it is easier to keep your gear on than doff it in the water and then lift it out.
By the way, if your back is that bad, diving isn't necessarily the best activity for you. This whole business of being horizontal in the water while looking forward forces you to arch your back for most of the time you are in the water. That's the part that makes my back sore.
Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
sytech@yahoo.com - 30 Jun 2006 21:11 GMT No my back isn't that bad at all. I tend to weight lift too vigorously and that exacerbates the situation.
Thanks to all for the feedback and based upon several comments, maybe I'd be best off just making sure that the deck hand assists in lifting my tank to take weight off my back as I board the boat and get seated.
> <sytech@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: > :I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- John Hanson - 01 Jul 2006 18:41 GMT >No my back isn't that bad at all. I tend to weight lift too vigorously >and that exacerbates the situation. What do you mean by "too vigorously"? I have upper back issues related to a rib which is probably caused by me having scoliosis but that doesn't bother me until I get over 450-500 pounds on my back. My lower back, OTOH, is damned near bullet proof from squatting and deadlifting. I used to have all sorts of problems with my lower back before I started powerlifting again and it has since disappeared.
>Thanks to all for the feedback and based upon several comments, maybe >I'd be best off just making sure that the deck hand assists in lifting >my tank to take weight off my back as I board the boat and get seated. You might want to change your lifting program, in the meantime.
VK - 01 Jul 2006 19:31 GMT > What do you mean by "too vigorously"? I have upper back issues > related to a rib which is probably caused by me having scoliosis but > that doesn't bother me until I get over 450-500 pounds on my back. My > lower back, OTOH, is damned near bullet proof from squatting and > deadlifting. I used to have all sorts of problems with my lower back > before I started powerlifting again and it has since disappeared. I wonder how that might affect your air consumption...?
V.
John Hanson - 01 Jul 2006 19:49 GMT >> What do you mean by "too vigorously"? I have upper back issues >> related to a rib which is probably caused by me having scoliosis but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I wonder how that might affect your air consumption...? What exactly do you mean by "that"?
cavey_curtis@$$ yahoo.com - 01 Jul 2006 20:21 GMT >>I wonder how that might affect your air consumption...? >> > What exactly do you mean by "that"? I suspect he's just powerlifting your leg (as opposed to just pulling it).
Ken Cameron - 01 Jul 2006 16:09 GMT Working with divers of limited mobility is something many operators are used to and some have had extra training to deal with special needs. BUT this is something that must be asked about before hand!! Surprising your crew at the last minute will not go over well with most folk. Back to the old "plan your dive, dive your plan" sort of thing but it includes actions out of the water. Other things like the crew may have a method already for helping people needing to not climb with gear, so ask first!!
I've dealt with many special requests over the years. Some people had to get into their gear in the water too, standing on deck with the gear exceeded their options. Others were short a part or two. Once again, plan ahead, follow the plan and it works fine. Oddest one was a diabetic who's doctor instructions were to time from when they removed their pump, limit the dive time from that point to one hour or lest and to double check their blood when they finished the dive. So keeping track and making things handy is all it took.
Many disabled people stop being disabled once they are in the water. So letting them feel like the rest of the world for a while is something worth the extra time and effort.
 Signature -ken cameron, CCP. SkyDiver: Zoo-602, A-8596, D-11839. Skier: down & cross. English Hunter Rider. Scuba: SSI 4798DC Home DZ: FingerLakes Skydivers, Ovid NY
> I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a > question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sy Popeye - 01 Jul 2006 21:30 GMT > Working with divers of limited mobility is something many operators are > used to and some have had extra training to deal with special needs. BUT [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > letting them feel like the rest of the world for a while is something > worth the extra time and effort. Absolutely.
 Signature Popeye "Best thing for him, really, his therapy was going nowhere." -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
www.finalprotectivefire.com
>> I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a >> question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> Sy bob crownfield - 02 Jul 2006 04:05 GMT > I'm prone to lower back pain after wearing scuba equipment and have a > question about doffing the gear in the water before climbing the ladder > to get back on the boat. > > It appears to be simple enough to remove the BCD/Tank in the water but > was wondering if there is any downside to boarding the boat this way. Weight belt off first, then bc / tank
be really sure that the bc/ tank is positively buoyant when you take it off.
> Any comments and advice will be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Sy
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