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Scuba Forum / General / July 2006Conflicting Accounts of the Rouse's Demise
So, I've read Bernie Chowdhury's book, The Last Dive and Robert Kurson's book, Shadow Divers. Both authors mention the airlifting of the Rouses in great detail, yet, the accounts are nearly completely the opposite in regard to the airlift of the Rouses by the Coast Guard. Chowdhury, in The Last Dive, has Chatterton arguing with the Coast Guard swimmer to take Chris's lifeless body on the helicopter with Chrissy, and the swimmer refusing a number of times until he gives in. Chatterton pointed to Chris Rouse. "You've got to take him." "We can't risk another basket drop for a dead guy!" "Are you a medical doctor?" "Then you can't tell me he's dead for certain! You've got to take him." "NO!" "Look, the kid thinks his father's still alive. We've been telling him that so that he keeps on fighting to live. He's got to see his old man on the chopper with him, otherwise he'll know he's dead!" The swimmer stared at him. "Do you have any idea how risky a basket lift is? We just can't do it for a dead guy!" Kurson in the Shadow Divers has the Coast Guard swimmer demanding that Chris's body be removed and Chatterton insisting that he is dead and that he is wasting valuable time. "Look, I'm begging you," Chatterton told the swimmer. "Leave now. The kid's life depends on this. It's going to take twenty minutes to get that basket back down here to load up a guy who's already dead." Now, the Last Dive was written three years before Shadow Divers and in the Note on Sources chapter, Kurson says he relied on interviews with Chatterton, Kohler, Yerga and Crowell as well as reading Chowdhury's, The Last Dive. He even mentions that he used Chowdhury's book a second time for information on the lives of the Rouses. Every other part of the incident is nearly exactly the same in both books. What's up with that? > So, I've read Bernie Chowdhury's book, The Last Dive and Robert > Kurson's book, Shadow Divers. Both authors mention the airlifting of > the Rouses in great detail, yet, the accounts are nearly completely > the opposite in regard to the airlift of the Rouses by the Coast > Guard. [... snip ...] > What's up with that? What does it matter? Its a good story either way, and makes Chatterton look like a good guy. The real take-away from either book, as a diver, should be the lessons in how not to approach diving in general, and serious dives in particular. What happened to Chris and Chrissy, and Sue, and all of those close to Chris and Chrissy, was terrible, yet avoidable. Both Chris and Chrissy had the training, skills, and experience to pull off exploration dives successfully. That's what makes the events of that day so tragic.  SignatureArt Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net >> So, I've read Bernie Chowdhury's book, The Last Dive and Robert >> Kurson's book, Shadow Divers. Both authors mention the airlifting of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >training, skills, and experience to pull off exploration dives successfully. >That's what makes the events of that day so tragic. I agree and also I don't think they (Chris and Chrissy) were a good buddy match. As far as their skills. Maybe diving, but building equipment and certainly not their judgment. They broke rules with regard to dive plans, gas mix requirments etc. Bernie gave me a signed copy while he was visiting Birds in Crystal River. Nice guy. >>> So, I've read Bernie Chowdhury's book, The Last Dive and Robert >>> Kurson's book, Shadow Divers. Both authors mention the airlifting of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >regard to dive plans, gas mix requirments etc. Bernie gave me a signed >copy while he was visiting Birds in Crystal River. Nice guy. Not on their last dive. The problem came in when the life raft they were trying to extricate for the sub inflated. Sure, they didn't use trimix because they couldn't afford it but that was still very new technology at the time for wreck divers. In fact, Kohler was still diving on pure air only at the time. Kohler's insistence that trimix was some sort of "voodoo gas" may have influenced the Rouses into thinking that diving on air instead of trimix was an acceptable option. >> They broke rules with regard to dive plans, gas mix requirments etc. > Not on their last dive. The problem came in when the life raft they > were trying to extricate for the sub inflated. Sure, they didn't use > trimix because they couldn't afford it but that was still very new > technology at the time for wreck divers. Wrong again, newbie. They not only broke the rules, they knew they were breaking them. They died as a direct result of breaking them. Gas mix rules are in place specifically to allow divers to deal with the unexpected event effectively. Any fool can dive to any depth short of an Ox tox, on air until something happens that requires them to act quickly and correctly. They encountered just such a situation and made some very bad decisions when they could least afford to do so. Trimix wasn't new to the industry or to the Rouses. They were experienced enough, including experience with trimix, to have known better. They let their desire to do the dive override the knowledge and experience that had to be telling them they were making a mistake. They knew how to do it right and they chose to do it wrong. It cost them their lives. Lee >>> They broke rules with regard to dive plans, gas mix requirments etc. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Lee That's what I got out of the book. Do you know how much the gas would have cost them? Was it $500. I can't remember and I don't have the book in front of me. I think Bernie did mention it though. If I were skilled enough to make a dive as they did, there wouldn't be anything I couldn't afford to preserve my safety. If there was an ounce of true to any of the accounts in Bernie's book, I have to conclude that the Rouses' judgment was poor. This was depicted throughout the book. It seems these guys had a death wish or something. After reading the book, I began to think that these guys were a little crazy and folks stood by and watched. Oh yeah, comments were made, but off they went and did their thing. My take, but none the less a sad, sad story. >>>> They broke rules with regard to dive plans, gas mix requirments etc. >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >stood by and watched. Oh yeah, comments were made, but off they went >and did their thing. My take, but none the less a sad, sad story. It was $300 according to Kurson. Would one of those who stood by and watched be Kohler? I find it interesting that you think that the Rouses' judgment was depicted as poor throughout the book. I'm not sure which book you are referring to but I didn't get that impression from either. Fourteen years after the fact Kurson does believe that there use of air is what killed him as do I. I'm sure even Kohler would tell you that today. But, at the time, trimix hadn't been used in cold water by wreck divers except by the Rouses themselves and Chatterton and Yurga, according to Kurson. > It was $300 according to Kurson. Would one of those who stood by and > watched be Kohler? I find it interesting that you think that the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in cold water by wreck divers except by the Rouses themselves and > Chatterton and Yurga, according to Kurson. So, if not, it is the divers responsibility to try and train with it beforehand. Matthias >> It was $300 according to Kurson. Would one of those who stood by and >> watched be Kohler? I find it interesting that you think that the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >So, if not, it is the divers responsibility to try and train >with it beforehand. The Rouses used trimix all the time in the caves in Florida. You missed the point but I find that happens here regularly. >>> They broke rules with regard to dive plans, gas mix requirments etc. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >They encountered just such a situation and made some very bad decisions when >they could least afford to do so. You snipped this Lee: "In fact, Kohler was still diving on pure air only at the time. Kohler's insistence that trimix was some sort of "voodoo gas" may have influenced the Rouses into thinking that diving on air instead of trimix was an acceptable option." As I mentioned before, trimix was still a new technology at the time for wreck divers. Chatterton himself only attended a workshop on trimix in early 1992 as did Yurga...they year the Rouses died. This is what Shadow Divers has to say about Kohler's feelings at the time: Kohler, however, stayed away. He, too, had heard about trimix. He believed that if something sounded too good to be true, it was. "This is witchcraft, it's black magic," he told Chatterton. "You're going to 'experiment' at two hundred and thirty feet? Insid a U-boat? No one knows the effects of that gas on the brain or the body. You're going to get bent. Or paralyzed. Or killed." -page 195. Then, after attending the workshop by Deans, the book says this: When the workshop ended, Deans told Chatterton and Yurga, "If you guys go forward, you'll be practically the only ones in your part of the country doing it. We don't know exactly how this works in cold water. You'll have to be pioneers." -pages 195-196. So tell me Lee, are you saying the author and the folks in the book are lying? Or is it you who is lying? >Trimix wasn't new to the industry or to the Rouses. They were experienced >enough, including experience with trimix, to have known better. They let >their desire to do the dive override the knowledge and experience that had >to be telling them they were making a mistake. They knew how to do it right >and they chose to do it wrong. It cost them their lives. So, explain the above passages. > So tell me Lee, are you saying the author and the folks in the book > are lying? Or is it you who is lying? No one is lying, you arrogant gasbag. You read a couple books and you think you know it all. Lee has forgotten more about diving than you'll ever know. The Navy has been diving helium since the 30's (do a Google search on the Squalus). The Rouses had the opportunity to use the gas, but like almost all fatalities, it wasnt one thing that started the accident sequence that resulted in a double fatality. Arrogance like yours is one of the most dangerous, and easy to recognize and avoid, integers of diving. Dives with guys like you get thumbed in the parking lot. rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> whined: > Arrogance like yours is one of the most dangerous, and easy to > recognize and avoid, Yet you haven't managed to do it, Scotty. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> > whined: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yet you haven't managed to do it, Scotty. down LittLe doggy, down. stop following and ankle humping. bad LittLe doggie carLito. bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> goes around: > following and ankle humping. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> goes around: > >> following and ankle humping. poof. thats the last of you. in the words of the master, vanish wee one. farewell leg humper. > poof. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > farewell leg humper. and it's about time Bob. Curtis Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "\"Magilla\"" <cavey_curtis@$$ yahoo.com> rista: > and it's about time Bob. bobby can't help himself. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> sputtered >> bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> goes around: >> >>> following and ankle humping. . > in the words of the master, bad lapdog. <whap> SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> sputtered > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ><whap> the bad thing about lapdogs, is if they decide to take a bite, they're on your lap :X Is túisce deoch ná scéal, Some Random Dude <insane_at_large@hotmail.com> rista: >>bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> sputtered >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >:X True but bobby's toothless. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> So tell me Lee, are you saying the author and the folks in the book >> are lying? Or is it you who is lying? > >No one is lying, you arrogant gasbag. So, please explain the disparity in what you snipped. You know, what Lee said previously and what is contained in the book. I'm making it very easy for you with my quotes. >You read a couple books and you think you know it all. Lee has forgotten >more about diving than you'll ever know. Why do you have the impression that I think I know it all? I've said all along that I am just a newbie to diving. As a matter of fact, this whole post is in regard to a question I have on the veracity of the two different accounts. >The Navy has been diving helium since the 30's (do a Google search on the >Squalus). This wasn't the Navy and Navy dive tables, at least at the time, were secret. Also, how do you explain the passages in Shadow Divers regarding the use of trimix in cold water? >The Rouses had the opportunity to use the gas, but like almost all >fatalities, it wasnt one thing that started the accident sequence that >resulted in a double fatality. > >Arrogance like yours is one of the most dangerous, and easy to recognize and >avoid, integers of diving. Please explain my arrogance and how it relates to diving? >Dives with guys like you get thumbed in the parking lot. How so? I certainly would dive to that depth with air. Hell, I wouldn't dive to that depth, period. > This wasn't the Navy and Navy dive tables, at least at the time, were > secret. Pure bullshit. I have a set of US Navy Diving manual right here from 1978, with helium and air tables. Volume I Air Diving Manual Volume II Mixed Gas Diving Manual There was also significant experimentation and exploration going on in places outside the US Northeast. > Also, how do you explain the passages in Shadow Divers > regarding the use of trimix in cold water? 1st off, North East wreck divers arent exactly the leading edge, unless you want to count fatalities and innability to learn. The book should make that quite clear. Trimix was in common use in other areas and nations. A lot of these macho divers looked at the use of trimix as some kind of admission of flaw or weakness. > >The Rouses had the opportunity to use the gas, but like almost all > >fatalities, it wasnt one thing that started the accident sequence that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Please explain my arrogance and how it relates to diving? Because you don't know sh.t about diving, you are drawing erroneous conclusions, and then when people who *do* know try to tell you, you either call them idiots or some other jockstrap bullshit. > >Dives with guys like you get thumbed in the parking lot. > How so? Because you don't listen, you don't learn, and your mouth overloads your a.s. I am not going to put my life in your hands, ever, and I will never take responsibility for any diver that displays your level of unbridled arrogance. > I certainly would dive to that depth with air. Hell, I > wouldn't dive to that depth, period. It's a piece of cake, if you know how. Bottom line is, there is no good reason for that father and son to be dead, it was a tragedy, and an easily avoided one. Instead of looking to the book to learn how to do things (let alone argue points you don't have), you should look at the book as a roadmap to a fatality, because that is what it is. How to kill yourself and your son in 3 easy lessons. >> This wasn't the Navy and Navy dive tables, at least at the time, were >> secret. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >areas and nations. A lot of these macho divers looked at the use of trimix >as some kind of admission of flaw or weakness. So then what you are saying is that Shadow Divers is filled with a bunch of inaccuracies, correct? This is why I posted the question. >> >The Rouses had the opportunity to use the gas, but like almost all >> >fatalities, it wasnt one thing that started the accident sequence that [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >take responsibility for any diver that displays your level of unbridled >arrogance. Not at all. That's why I posted the question. You are apparently agreeing with Lee. In fact, you've gone on beyond what Lee said and have given even more information. That information is at odds with the accounts in Shadow Divers. Now, I'm tending to side with you and Lee at this point. >> I certainly would dive to that depth with air. Hell, I >> wouldn't dive to that depth, period. > >It's a piece of cake, if you know how. I'm certain it is but it is beyond my experience and training at the present time. >Bottom line is, there is no good reason for that father and son to be dead, >it was a tragedy, and an easily avoided one. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >How to kill yourself and your son in 3 easy lessons. That is exactly why I purchased them. But, I stumbled onto the one discrepancy. Now you and Lee bring up another. A person needs to be vigilant in obtaining accurate information. At least, I certainly try to be. > So then what you are saying is that Shadow Divers is filled with a > bunch of inaccuracies, correct? This is why I posted the question. I dont know, havent read the book. > Not at all. That's why I posted the question. You are apparently > agreeing with Lee. In fact, you've gone on beyond what Lee said and > have given even more information. That information is at odds with > the accounts in Shadow Divers. Now, I'm tending to side with you and > Lee at this point. > That is exactly why I purchased them. But, I stumbled onto the one > discrepancy. Now you and Lee bring up another. A person needs to be > vigilant in obtaining accurate information. At least, I certainly try > to be. http://cisatlantic.com/trimix/ start here, read everything. rec.scuba's resident pussy "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> rista: > "John Hanson" <jhanson@northernlinks.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Pure bullshit. I have a set of US Navy Diving manual right > here from 1978, with helium and air tables. So they aren't secret now. You have to show that anyone could have obtained them back in 1978. You won't. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > rec.scuba's resident pussy "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> > rista: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You won't. I have a copy of the 1970 US Navy Diving Manual which I bought, in England, in 1972 or earlier (I left the UK in 1972). It contains tables for air and for heliox. Those were the good old days, when you didn't need a C-card and the dive shop would happily sell you regulator parts. ab Is túisce deoch ná scéal, Andy Brooks <andybrooks@earthlink.net> rista: >> rec.scuba's resident pussy "Scott" >> <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> rista: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > bought, in England, in 1972 or earlier (I left the UK in > 1972). Like I said, Scotty wouldn't. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I have a copy of the 1970 US Navy Diving Manual which I bought, in > England, in 1972 or earlier (I left the UK in 1972). It contains tables > for air and for heliox. Those were the good old days, when you didn't > need a C-card and the dive shop would happily sell you regulator parts. Please do us all a favor and dont answer or replie to Nisarel. Google him and you'll see why. rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> whined: > Please do us all a favor and dont answer or replie to Nisarel. > > Google him and you'll see You getting bitchslapped. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > rec.scuba's resident pussy "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> > rista: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > You won't. Unless you have Diving Manual, 1943, Navy Department, Bureau of Ships. > So they aren't secret now. > > You have to show that anyone could have obtained them back in 1978. > > You won't. Classified military documents are marked as such. There is usually a big assed "SECRET" or "CLASSIFIED" or "TOP SECRET" rubber stamp on the top of each page, reflecting it's level of classification. It's been that way since the 40s. Hey Scott, what's the marking on your book? I'm gonna guess it says "Copyright, 1972." > Classified military documents are marked as such. There is usually a > big assed "SECRET" or "CLASSIFIED" or "TOP SECRET" rubber stamp on the > top of each page, reflecting it's level of classification. It's been > that way since the 40s. Please stop quoting this cuntbubble, let alone answering him. His ignorance would fill a football stadium. > Hey Scott, what's the marking on your book? I'm gonna guess it says > "Copyright, 1972." You know the book, it has Rons picture in it. Just another of the many things this douchebag has no clue of. rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> whined: > Just another of the many things that you'll whine about. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Please stop quoting this cuntbubble, let alone answering him. > > His ignorance would fill a football stadium. I know. But you know how I am. I just.... can't... not .... PUSH THE BUTTON!!! > > Hey Scott, what's the marking on your book? I'm gonna guess it says > > "Copyright, 1972." > > You know the book, it has Rons picture in it. > > Just another of the many things this douchebag has no clue of. Shorter to make a list of the stuff he does know about, eh? Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: > Shorter to make a list of the stuff he does know about, eh? It's so funny to watch you gasbags. What bugs Scotty is that I know who he is and he doesn't have a fuckin' clue who I am. His fear of me is constantly in the back of his head. Be a good little fuckwit and remind him again. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > What bugs Scotty is that I know who he is and he doesn't have a > fuckin' clue who I am. I don't know if it bugs him, but I'll guarantee he finds it amusing. > His fear of me is constantly in the back of his head. Like this one, babe. It's a f.cking classic. I mean, you just got done telling us you know who he is (like that's a big freaking secret) and how anonymous you are. As if anyone would "really care" who you "really are." And then you let me know that *he* is the one that is afraid. I mean, that's irony or something isn't it? That's gotta be some great fantastic literary device, right? I don't know if it's art, but you got it, man. You got it bad. So #1 on the list of stuff you do know about: Amusement. > Be a good little fuckwit and remind him again. Hope that helped, darling. > > What bugs Scotty is that I know who he is and he doesn't have a > > fuckin' clue who I am. Easy big fella. Youre starting to talk sh.t like some kind of nutcase stalker. Keep that kind of talk up and I'll have to alert the Canadian Authorities, since I am scared. And in fear for my life. But really, I know who and what you are. You're the snotnosed little brat everyone hates to see walking, hunched up in the basement corner with your computer and card tables, jerking off where your mommy cant see you. You know, the kind of whining little jerk you just want to kick. > I don't know if it bugs him, but I'll guarantee he finds it amusing. I dont know man, this guy is getting kinda spooky. > Like this one, babe. It's a f.cking classic. I mean, you just got > done telling us you know who he is (like that's a big freaking secret) > and how anonymous you are. As if anyone would "really care" who you > "really are." And then you let me know that *he* is the one that is > afraid. I feel violated. > I mean, that's irony or something isn't it? That's gotta be some great > fantastic literary device, right? I don't know if it's art, but you > got it, man. You got it bad. > So #1 on the list of stuff you do know about: Amusement. > Hope that helped, darling. Doubt it. Deep therapy, years of it. > Deep therapy, years of it. Or, perhaps a very long dive in one of the Great Lakes. Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> rista: > Or, perhaps a very long dive in one of the Great Lakes. Are you threatening me, Lee? SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > Deep therapy, years of it. > > Or, perhaps a very long dive in one of the Great Lakes. Hey now! Those lakes were my old stompin' grouonds and the wrecks are awesome! This would be FAR too kind. * ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><(((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><(((º> > > > What bugs Scotty is that I know who he is and he doesn't have a > > > fuckin' clue who I am. > > Easy big fella. > > Youre starting to talk sh.t like some kind of nutcase stalker. Scott, he's ignored me since I stopped playing with him. > Keep that kind of talk up and I'll have to alert the Canadian Authorities, > since I am scared. And in fear for my life. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I dont know man, this guy is getting kinda spooky. Yeah, he's spent WAYYYY too much time trying to dig up stuff, but did a pretty poor job since he can't find anything thats true. > > Like this one, babe. It's a f.cking classic. I mean, you just got > > done telling us you know who he is (like that's a big freaking secret) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I feel violated. I might be concerned if I didn't have a husband the size of Arnold (but smarter), 2 large dogs, several handguns and a liscense to carry them, and a son who is trained to kill with his hands. Oh and lets not forget the loyalty of several rather interesting former students who have deep gang connections. * > I might be concerned if I didn't have a husband the size of Arnold (but > smarter), 2 large dogs, several handguns and a liscense to carry them, > and a son who is trained to kill with his hands. Oh and lets not forget > the loyalty of several rather interesting former students who have deep > gang connections. Damn, all you need is a local place with some gators for body disposal and you're set... <evil-grin> > Damn, all you need is a local place with some gators for body disposal > and you're set... <evil-grin> Already covered. See my previous post. > > I might be concerned if I didn't have a husband the size of Arnold (but > > smarter), 2 large dogs, several handguns and a liscense to carry them, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Damn, all you need is a local place with some gators for body disposal > and you're set... <evil-grin> you have gators there? We had one in Lake Washington awhile back, but I think he's since been relocated. I'd have to take a body to the zoo for the tigers, or maybe the polar bears - or perhaps the shark tank - nahhh we try to keep feeding separate from divers there. * ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><(((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><(((º> Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Star" <lclee1@gmail.com> rista: > Oh and lets not forget > the loyalty of several rather interesting former students who > have deep gang connections. OOHHHHHHH, Luann, you're soo tough. <snicker> SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Star" <lclee1@gmail.com> rista: > Yeah, he's spent WAYYYY too much time trying to dig up stuff, > but did a pretty poor job since he can't find anything thats > true. I spent no time, Luann. What I posted was to make fun of you. I could post your pitiful publishing record, the lame and incorrect crap you presented in your PhD program. But it's not related to scuba. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I might be concerned if I didn't have a husband the size of Arnold (but > smarter), 2 large dogs, several handguns and a liscense to carry them, > and a son who is trained to kill with his hands. Oh and lets not forget > the loyalty of several rather interesting former students who have deep > gang connections. Not mention friends in Florida, where alligators rule and bodies tend not to come back to the surface. Lee > > I might be concerned if I didn't have a husband the size of Arnold (but > > smarter), 2 large dogs, several handguns and a liscense to carry them, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lee Thanks, Lee. Alligators to destroy the body and the 6-day vaporization rule to delete posts - kinda the same thing, don't you think? Looks like we're pretty well covered :-) * ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><(((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><(((º> Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Star" <lclee1@gmail.com> rista: > Looks like we're pretty well frighted away like wusses. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> whined: >> > What bugs Scotty is that I know who he is and he doesn't >> > have a fuckin' clue who I am. > > Easy big fella. > > Youre starting to talk sh.t like some kind of nutcase stalker. <snicker> Are you afraid of me, Scotty? ... > But really, I know who and what you are. The person who keeps slapping you around. ... > Deep therapy, years of it. You should start the therapy, Scotty. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > I don't know if it bugs him, but I'll guarantee he finds it amusing. > > I dont know man, this guy is getting kinda spooky. Aawww dude, I guaranteed it! Can't you just be a little amused? Just a smidge? > > > I don't know if it bugs him, but I'll guarantee he finds it amusing. > > > > I dont know man, this guy is getting kinda spooky. > > Aawww dude, I guaranteed it! Can't you just be a little amused? > Just a smidge? I am wholly amused. Hence the references to fear. rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> whined: > Hence the references to fear. We know you're a frightened little pussy, Scotty. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: > rec.scuba's resident pussy Scott whined: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Aawww dude, I guaranteed it! Can't you just be a little > amused? Just a smidge? He's sh.tting his pants. You're amused. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > He's sh.tting his pants. > > You're amused. I think half right is as close to right as you've ever been. Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: >> He's sh.tting his pants. >> >> You're amused. > > I think half right is as close to right as you've ever been. His whole moronic 'nisarel v koplin' thread demonstrates that he's obsessed about his fear. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > His whole moronic 'nisarel v koplin' thread demonstrates that he's > obsessed about his fear. There's only one way to know for sure, Carl. Spiral fractures only hurt for a little while. Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: > There's only one way to know for sure, Carl. I already know for sure. Peace Arch, 5/27 Scotty the pussy fails to show up. > Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" > <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Scotty the pussy fails to show up. Lets just hypothosize for a moment that you really do know the outcome of that. Now is your chance to know for sure. I mean really know it. Right down to your guts. How can you pass that up? Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: >> Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" >> <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Lets just hypothosize for a moment that you really do know the > outcome of that. I know the outcome. The pussy failed to show up. ... SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Lets just hypothosize for a moment that you really do know the outcome > of that. He would have had to be there himself, and we all know he wasnt. > Now is your chance to know for sure. I mean really know it. Right > down to your guts. And be able to tell the truth for once. > How can you pass that up? Easy. His best shot comes out of the keyboard. rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> rista: > He would have had to be there himself, I was. You weren't. Everyone in rec.scuba saw you backpedal and run away from the invitation, pussy. > Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" > <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Scotty the pussy fails to show up. Dd he ever agree to? Dennis > Dd he ever agree to? Dont fog his little mind with facts. rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> whined: > "Dennis (Icarus)" <nojunkmail@ever.invalid> wrote in message > >> Dd he ever agree to? > > Dont fog my little mind with facts. Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkmail@ever.invalid> rista: > "Carl Nisarel" <nisarel@postmaster.uk.co> wrote in message >> Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dd he ever agree to? <snicker> > There's only one way to know for sure, Carl. > > Spiral fractures only hurt for a little while. He'll get the full treatment, including the stomp. I wont be rolling him into the ER in a wheel chair either. Someone else will have to handle that. rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> rista: > He'll get the full treatment, including the stomp. You're quite deluded, Scotty, You already wussed out and failed to show. Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: >> What bugs Scotty is that I know who he is and he doesn't have >> a fuckin' clue who I am. > > I don't know if it bugs him, It's why he constantly whines at people who respond to my posts. It's why he and his buttbuddies went through the whole 'post the address' idiocy. ... >> His fear of me is constantly in the back of his head. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would "really care" who you "really are." And then you let > me know that *he* is the one that is afraid. You're clueless. ... > So #1 on the list of stuff you do know about: Amusement. I'm very much aware of it. Scotty's pissy little whines show that he isn't. >> Be a good little fuckwit and remind him again. > > Hope that helped, darling. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Who is this idiot???? > Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" > <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> >> Hope that helped, darling. >Who is this idiot???? > >> Is túisce deoch ná scéal, "Jerome's Sock Puppet" >> <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> rista: Someone you want to killfile...globably...as soon as possible. Rick Simms Is túisce deoch ná scéal, RSimms <rick_simmsINVALID@bellsouth.net> rista: > Someone you want to killfile...globably...as soon as possible. Do it before I bitchslap you silly. Scotty keeps coming back for more and never learns. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Who is this idiot???? asswipe to rec.scuba. carLito the Loser rec.scuba's resident whiner bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> admits he is the: > asswipe to rec.scuba. We know, bobby. I'm cleaning up this cesspool, one wuss at a time. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com rec.scuba's resident pussy, "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> whined: > I will never > take responsibility for any diver that displays your level of > unbridled arrogance. And yet Scotty dives with Doug, Mikey, and the rest of the r.s gaggle of idiots. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > 1st off, North East wreck divers arent exactly the leading edge, unless you > want to count fatalities and innability to learn. A broad generalization. There are a few divers up here who stand out from that crowd. > The book should make that quite clear. Trimix was in common use in other > areas and nations. A lot of these macho divers looked at the use of trimix > as some kind of admission of flaw or weakness. Partly, but I think the strongest factor is just being too damned cheap. I've seen such things as spent fire extinguisher bottles used for bailout (pony) bottles, cylinders waaay out of hydro and with obvious corrosion present, and clothes line reels being used for guide line. Folks like that will never spend $100-$200 for a gas fill, let alone the cost of a class in how to use it. > Because you don't listen, you don't learn, and your mouth overloads your > a.s. Ouch! SignatureArt Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net > > 1st off, North East wreck divers arent exactly the leading edge, unless you > > want to count fatalities and innability to learn. > > A broad generalization. There are a few divers up here who stand out from that > crowd. Of course. I know a couple myself. But still, you get the point. > > The book should make that quite clear. Trimix was in common use in other > > areas and nations. A lot of these macho divers looked at the use of trimix [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > clothes line reels being used for guide line. Folks like that will never spend > $100-$200 for a gas fill, let alone the cost of a class in how to use it. That just comes down to someone being a flat-out thief, taking advantage of the ignorance of the divers. A "T" of Helium and ABO can be had for a total of around $90 of todays dollars, which would have been more than enough gas for both divers. Whoever was dinging them for $300 to fill a set of doubles was a crook. > Whoever was dinging them for $300 to fill a set of doubles was a crook. I checked quickly in my copy of The Last Dive and the only reference I see is to it costing a "few hundred" dollars more than air and that was for two divers doing multiple dives (w/deco). JF > > Whoever was dinging them for $300 to fill a set of doubles was a crook. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > JF $200-$300 for 4 sets of doubles with a mix suitable for those profiles is a tad high, even back then. * > $200-$300 for 4 sets of doubles with a mix suitable for those profiles > is a tad high, even back then. IIRC, filling a set of twin HP100s and 2 stages with 50 and 100 worked out to over $100 in Boston, about 6-odd yrs ago... dunno how it has changed since then, as I moved out 5 yrs ago. Vandit > > $200-$300 for 4 sets of doubles with a mix suitable for those profiles > > is a tad high, even back then. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Vandit okay, after some research on retail pricing here in the west and figuring on double 120's at the mentioned mixes, a basis for comparison is: .75 cents per cuft of helium add 35 cents per cuft of oxygen then air fill a set of twin 120s = 90.00 14.28 12.00 total 116.28 for one set Not many people were mixing in their garages, were they? If the Rouses did nto have a few hundred dollars for these fills, unlikely they would have a garage fill station? * > Not many people were mixing in their garages, were they? If the Rouses > did nto have a few hundred dollars for these fills, unlikely they would > have a garage fill station? As I recall, the Rouses, and those they were diving with in Florida, were doing their own trimix fills. Lee > > Not many people were mixing in their garages, were they? If the Rouses > > did nto have a few hundred dollars for these fills, unlikely they would [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Lee Ahhh thanks. So it most likely was the helium bottles they could not afford (or wouldn't pay for?) I don't know anything about cave country. * > > > Not many people were mixing in their garages, were they? If the Rouses > > > did nto have a few hundred dollars for these fills, unlikely they would [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > afford (or wouldn't pay for?) I don't know anything about cave > country. It was the testosterone what did it... > It was the testosterone what did it... Yep, testtoserone poisoning is the leading cost of death amond men before the age of 25... Usually preceeded with a statement of something like, "Yo! Check this sh.t out ..." The leading cause of death of men after 25 is estogen poisoning, but it's a *slow*, *painful* death... >> > Not many people were mixing in their garages, were they? If the Rouses >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > * Early on, trimix was a do-it-yerself thing. The commercial market arose only after the gas became popular with cavers and wreckers. And it's not just the cost of the gas. Typically, you have to buy the first tank and exchange it for fills (like propane for yer grill). Then ya have to put together a fill station with lots of fancy fittings and valves. The up-front investment may have discouraged some folks that should have been using mix. > > Whoever was dinging them for $300 to fill a set of doubles was a crook. > > I checked quickly in my copy of The Last Dive and the only reference I > see is to it costing a "few hundred" dollars more than air and that was > for two divers doing multiple dives (w/deco). A T of He contains about 291 cuft of helium and costs about $75 to $90 US. At 230 feet, they could have been running a lot of things, my choice would have been 16/50. Assuming LP95's, that would mean that, with a booster pump, you could just fill 3 sets of LP95's off one T bottle. > Partly, but I think the strongest factor is just being too damned cheap. I've > seen such things as spent fire extinguisher bottles used for bailout (pony) > bottles Depending upon the cylinder, I might not have a problem with it... One of the heavy steel CO2 cylinders would probably be acceptable with a different valve on it... As long as you kept your gas pressure to within its service rating... 1800 psi, IIRC... Good enough for topping off with O2 from a welding cylinder (which is only 2015 when full)... Some people might prefer a smaller diameter and longer cylinder though... Tanks are tanks... After a hydro, they're not going to know whether they used to hold CO2, O2, or air... > Tanks are tanks... After a hydro, they're not going to know > whether they used to hold CO2, O2, or air... Of course. But I doubt any of those were ever subjected to visual or hydro. And I have to wonder about the valve fitting - I'm not sure, but I don't think a fire extinguisher bottle has the same threads as a scuba valve. SignatureArt Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net > Of course. But I doubt any of those were ever subjected to visual or hydro. Well, there's no law that says that they must be subjected to a visual... A hydro is required, but if one is filling one's own tanks, it also might lapse... > And I have to wonder about the valve fitting - I'm not sure, but I don't think > a fire extinguisher bottle has the same threads as a scuba valve. Over the years, I've seen quite a few different screw threads for cylinders used for diving... Of course, it's also going to depend upon the size of the tank... Looking at the Luxfer site, I see where some of the beverage CO2, fire extinguisher, and SCUBA cylinders have the same screw threads... I've also seen adapters made that converted old tanks to a different thread size... I suspect that this was back in the days when it wasn't as easy to get SCUBA tanks... I have a 20# CO2 tank... I don't see any real advantage in it instead of a SCUBA tank... It's about 8" in diameter and about the same height as an AL80... Maybe one of the 10# or 5# size tanks could have a use if you got it at a cheap enough price... Maybe as a drysuit inflation cylinder? Maybe as an O2 tank for use at a 15 ft safety stop? > . . . and clothes line reels being used for guide line. Don't be too quick to discount this one. 30 years ago, we used clothes line for cave diving for a very good reason. It had a steel wire through the center of it. It was damned near impossible to cut or break accidentally and not all that easy to cut on purpose. Lee > > . . . and clothes line reels being used for guide line. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Lee That, I can understand. These days, braided nylon is much stronger and more abrasion resistant, with a smaller diameter. More on the reel. The lines I've seen up here are not that old, and not steel reinforced. And in fully enclosed housings, impossible to clear of a jam. And, with the non-technique employed by their users, jams do happen quite often. SignatureArt Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net > That, I can understand. These days, braided nylon is much stronger and more > abrasion resistant, with a smaller diameter. More on the reel. Hell, over the years, we've used everything from parachute cord to braided nylon mason's line (#18, I believe)... I seem to remember the line in Ponce deLeon Springs being the yellow polypropylene stuff with pieces of PVC pipe on it for exit markers (they had an arrow drawn on them with a marker)... These days, #24 braided nylon line is pretty much standard, I guess... > > 1st off, North East wreck divers arent exactly the leading edge, unless you > > want to count fatalities and innability to learn. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > bottles, cylinders waaay out of hydro and with obvious corrosion present, and > clothes line reels being used for guide line. On one trip to the east coast, I was on a boat whit a diver who obviously believed that duct tape was an appropriate substitite for bands on his doubles, and another who liked duct tape to attach his pony bottle to his 95. I've not seen things of that nature in other locations..... I've met some aweome divers from the East coast as well. * It is a good thing, therefore, to make short excursions now and then to the bottom of the sea among dulse and coral, or up among the clouds on mountaintops, or in balloons, or even to creep like worms into dark holes and caverns underground, not only to learn something of what is going on in those out-of-the-way places, but to see better what the sun sees on our return to the common everyday beauty. ~John Muir 1911 >> >Dives with guys like you get thumbed in the parking lot. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > take responsibility for any diver that displays your level of unbridled > arrogance. I actually disagree. Maybe I read too much into some of his comments, the ones not replied to. And in some ways he fits right in. To the extent that if it's within my personal schedule, and the dives are reasonable, I'll meet and dive the boat he does. John, the email addy is real, just remove the $$, like diving does. Curtis > I actually disagree. Maybe I read too much into some of his comments, > the ones not replied to. You are a free man, and your disagreement is welcome. > And in some ways he fits right in. In very few. > To the extent that if it's within my personal schedule, and the dives > are reasonable, I'll meet and dive the boat he does. That's not the same as being his buddy. > That's not the same as being his buddy. Which is what he'll have to be. I won't knowingly get on the boat with John. Newbies are fine. Newbies that believe they already know it all aren't. > > That's not the same as being his buddy. > > Which is what he'll have to be. I won't knowingly get on the boat with > John. Newbies are fine. Newbies that believe they already know it all > aren't. Which was my point. >> That's not the same as being his buddy. > > Which is what he'll have to be. I won't knowingly get on the boat with > John. Newbies are fine. Newbies that believe they already know it all > aren't. Sigh, okay, so be it. Cannot say I understand the exact reasoning, but I respect your decision. Curtis Magilla wrote > Sigh, okay, so be it. > Cannot say I understand the exact reasoning, but I respect your > decision. It's easy. He's brand new, mostly ignorant, raised an issue, which he got good solid responses to and then proceeded to tell people who know so much more than he does that they were wrong, followed by calling them names when he was told that it was he, not they that was mistaken. Take all of the arrogance George ever showed here and take away all of the knowledge that gave George a right to feel superior, and you have John. I don't mind new divers. I don't mind them doing the best to do what they were taught was right. I do mind them closing their minds to everything that does not agree with what they think they were taught. It's a dangerous attitude which may or may not lead to trouble, but is clearly indicative of the kind of person I don't want to share boat space with. I |
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