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Scuba Forum / General / June 2006Difference between "Master Diver" & "Dive Master"
Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & "Dive Master" designations? Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks, Sy  SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? One determines what type of coffee is to be brewed, one just brews the coffee? <snicker> Seriously though, my experience with the term "Master Diver" is as it refers to a very experienced Navy diver... Maybe it's used differently (i.e extremely diluted) in the recreation market... "Master Diver. (CIN A-433-0019), is an unclassified 12 day course which evaluates qualified First Class Divers and Saturation Divers, E-7 or above, to determine the candidates ability to successfully perform as Diving supervisors in all facets of Navy Diving. Successful candidates earn the qualification of Master Diver." https://www.npdc.navy.mil/ceneoddive/ndstc/index.cfm?fa=courses.master Any recreational certificaiton agencies that issue a cert called "Master Diver" is just a poser type cert... The term "Dive Master" basically just relates to an underwater tour guide who also makes coffee during surface intervals... > > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > > "Dive Master" designations? > > Any recreational certificaiton agencies that issue a cert called > "Master Diver" is just a poser type cert... You mean like this? http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/msd.aspx > ? Any recreational certificaiton agencies that issue a cert called > ? "Master Diver" is just a poser type cert... > You mean like this? > > http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/msd.aspx As contrasted by this; http://www.supsalv.org/aigs/00C3Msg/mdvPrescreener.html > You mean like this? > > http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/msd.aspx 50 logged dives? Minimum age of 12? And then a couple of underwater basketweaving courses? Hell, that's not even good enough to be a poser... Kind of corrupting the term "Master Diver"... Damn, someone should be ashamed to have (or even consider getting) that cert... I know a lot of 12 year old divers that I would trust much more that the once a year "tourist" diver. I agree on the 50 dive thing. That is one reason I like SSI better. Your card has your # of logged dives on it. (10,50,100, 500, 1000 or something like that) Fishing has a similar certification that carries about as much prestige but they only give it out for how good you can put stuff on a hook. I think they call it a "baiting master" or something like that..... >>You mean like this? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > poser... Kind of corrupting the term "Master Diver"... Damn, someone > should be ashamed to have (or even consider getting) that cert... >I know a lot of 12 year old divers that I would trust much more that the >once a year "tourist" diver. I agree on the 50 dive thing. That is >one reason I like SSI better. Your card has your # of logged dives on >it. (10,50,100, 500, 1000 or something like that) Only if you go in and have the dive shop put a new sticker on the card, or sell you a new card. Once I realized that the main reason was so they could have a chance to sell you something, I stopped bothering. Once I saw the price of the new card, and realized that it did nothing more than the old one (get folks to sell air fills), I figured I would rather spend the money on actually diving. Alan I got my PADI Advanced Open Water Cert. earlier this year. Am taking the NAUI Advanced Open Water Course in a few weeks. No more PADI for me. I figure I can use my PADI card to jiggle the lock on my back door in my house. >I got my PADI Advanced Open Water Cert. earlier this year. Am taking > the NAUI Advanced Open Water Course in a few weeks. No more > PADI for me. > > I figure I can use my PADI card to jiggle the lock on my back door > in my house. Why don't you take NAUI Open Water as well? Then you'll have two open water cards to match your two AOW cards. My Basic OW course was YMCA. If I had my druthers all my training would be YMCA. but they are hard to find. Non-profit organizations like YMCA can't compete with the Marketing clout of PADI and others. > My Basic OW course was YMCA. If I had my druthers all my training > would be YMCA. but they are hard to find. <snip> Mine, too. But the course has changed a lot since 1972, when we had to swim half a mile in the pool twice a week before class, buddy breath, demonstrate doff and don skills in the pool and in open water, and when octos, power inflators, and even SPGs were rare. (Many didn't even dive with a depth gauge unless they were going deep, since steel 72s were the order of the day and few dives exceeded a depth where you could get bent before running out of air.) [OK, a disclaimer. There are lots of regular contributors here with ten times my experience despite my 34 years of certification. There was a big gap in the middle when I couldn't really afford it or when other interests intervened. But that doesn't stop me from forming an opinion.] Fast forward. Things have changed a lot. My AOW instructors had never seen a cert card as old as mine. From an equipment standpoint, much for the better in my view. From a training standpoint, if you are interested in diving rather than divemaster guided tours, I'm not so sure. The accident rates seem acceptable, but for one reason or another, I'm not terribly comfortable with the prevalent level of traiing. I think the current YMCA book is much better than the PADI book. (I haven't read the NAUI or SSI ones.) My original YMCA book is surprisingly current in most ways despite being purchased in 1972. It has nearly all the content of PADI's OW *and* AOW books, plus some, but minus a few topics--notably, night diving. Today, though, I find most are not as informative as I would like. I have nitrox certification from TDI, for which the book basically seemed to say one shouldn't worry too much about the math while I think it's essential. The TDI book for deco is likewise kinda lightweight for my taste. But this is a case where the instructor will make all the difference and I'll pester him with questions throughout the course. The GUE book on tech is much better than most of the foregoing books, as is Gentile's tech diving book. Lots of useful info in both. Still have plenty of reading to do, though. John Eells You must be a PADI diver. or just an idiot!!!!!!! > You must be a PADI diver. or just an idiot!!!!!!! Who are you talking to, Einstein? I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make such an ignorant statement. > I'm talking to you. Could'nt tell becasue you arent smart enough to quote who you are replying to. > I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 > years of experience. 16 years, but not an instructor? > A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee > and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. Well, ring the bell. Me, I just like to see everyone I dive with freaked out. > Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make > such an ignorant statement. I've seen plenty of good "divemasters". I think you are just another troll. > I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 > years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee > and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. > Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make > such an ignorant statement. Try quoting the post to which you are replying, you blithering idiot. Signature“TANSTAAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 “The strength of the pack is the wolf” Rudyard Kipling > I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 > years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee > and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. > Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make > such an ignorant statement. Do you prefer a burr grinder or do you buy that pre-ground sh.t? And how hot should the water be before you put it through the filter? > > I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 > > years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee > > and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. > > Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make > > such an ignorant statement. > Do you prefer a burr grinder or do you buy that pre-ground sh.t? And > how hot should the water be before you put it through the filter? He's a pre-ground. And after he progresses far enough to answer that, we'll get into tequila, barbeque sauces and how to properly cook crab/oysters/salmon, and which is appropriate to accompany with rooster sauce, habinero sauce, or siriacha. > And after he progresses far enough to answer that, we'll get into tequila, > barbeque sauces and how to properly cook crab/oysters/salmon, and which is > appropriate to accompany with rooster sauce, habinero sauce, or siriacha. King crab comes precooked. Other crabs not worth cooking unless they're of comparable size. Anything smaller than king crab is more work than the eating is worth to anyone. . . except for Jayna. She knows that, when I finish my scallops, I'll dig the meat out of her garlic crabs for her just so I can get some sometime the same day. Oysters should not be cooked at all. Crackers and cocktail sauce laced with hot horseradish are natural partners. Salmon is a trash fish only eaten by people that don't know what good fish tastes like . . . or those that have consumed so much tequila that they don't know what anything tastes like. Lee > Salmon is a trash fish only eaten by people that don't know what good fish > tastes like . . . or those that have consumed so much tequila that they > don't know what anything tastes like. If you ever have the temerity to come up north and west, I'll feed you King Salmon, which will smoke all that wimpy whitefish you sothern boys call dinner. >> Salmon is a trash fish only eaten by people that don't know what good fish >> tastes like . . . or those that have consumed so much tequila that they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Salmon, which will smoke all that wimpy whitefish you sothern boys call >dinner. and what recipes do you all have for chili? www.fmft.net > and what recipes do you all have for chili? > > www.fmft.net Entertaining website, very cool. This is a basic chili recipe I ripped off from Emeril, and modified accordingly. ********************** Salmon Chili 1 tablespoon vegetable oil 1 1/2 to 2 pounds fresh king or chinook salmon fillet, cubed into large (2" square) chunks 2 cups chopped Walla Walla sweet yellow onions 2 tablespoons minced garlic 1 bay leaf 2 tablespoons chili powder 1 teaspoon sea salt 1 to 2 teaspoons cayenne 1 teaspoon celery salt 1 teaspoon ground oregano 1 teaspoon ground thyme 1 teaspoon rubbed sage 1/2 teaspoon rosemary 2 teaspoons ground cumin 1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper 1/2 teaspoon ground white pepper 1 (15-ounce) can whole peeled tomatoes 1 small can tomato paste 1 tablespoon panocha sugar 2 tablespoons rooster sauce 2 to 2 1/2cups water 1/2 cup shredded asiago cheese, optional In a heavy pot, heat the oil over medium-high heat. Add the onions, garlic and bay leaf, stirring gently until the onions are soft and transluscent, 4 to 5 minutes. Throw in all the spices and herbs and stir well. Add the tomatoes, tomato paste, sugar, rooster sauce and water. Stir well and bring to a boil. Gently fold in salmon. Lower the heat to medium-low and simmer uncovered for 30 minutes or until good and thick, and the salmon chunks should seperate in large flakes easily. Pull the bay leaf. Cover and keep warm until ready to serve. Top with shredded asiago cheese, and serve with cornbread. ********************* If you let it sit overnight in the fridge, then reheat it the next day, the flavor is remarkably better. If you dont like chili that makes you sweat, use one teaspoon of cayenne, and cut the rooster sauce to one tablespoon. >> Salmon is a trash fish only eaten by people that don't know what good >> fish >> tastes like . . . or those that have consumed so much tequila that they >> don't know what anything tastes like. > If you ever have the temerity to come up north and west, I'll feed you > King > Salmon, which will smoke all that wimpy whitefish you sothern boys call > dinner. I had it in a bayside restaurant in Seattle in hopes that it would be better than whatever you call the other kind of Salmon. I was most unimpressed. It's sort of like the stone crab claws we used to throw away until some guy named Joe figured out that tourists would buy them if we told them they were better cold. Lee > He's a pre-ground. > > And after he progresses far enough to answer that, we'll get into tequila, > barbeque sauces and how to properly cook crab/oysters/salmon, and which is > appropriate to accompany with rooster sauce, habinero sauce, or siriacha. And there in lies the true difference between a "Dive Master" and a "Master Diver." It's all in the recipies, babe. divemedic34608@aol.com wrote: > I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 > years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee > and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. > Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make > such an ignorant statement. I am an SSI Master Diver and unimpressed with your NAUI certification bearing the same name. Come to think of it, I'm unimpressed with my Master Diver certification too, but it does help me avoid problems with people who believe they have a need to question my abilities and experience. I've seen lots of good DMs. They do lots of things other than make coffee. They help the captain by securing the mooring or handling the anchor. They give briefings, including information about the boat, a description of the site and any information that customers may wish or need to have. Beyond that, they hang around in case someone asks for assistance. If asked, they may assist customers with their gear, may lead dives, and may act as a buddy for those that others, for one reason or another, prefer not to dive with. We all take the safety of everyone on our boat seriously, but that's not the same thing as imposing your idea of how to dive safely on others. Lee > Do you prefer a burr grinder or do you buy that pre-ground sh.t? Burr. > And > how hot should the water be before you put it through the filter? Long enough to reach the ground. I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make such an ignorant statement. Yeah, we got the last one. > I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 > years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee > and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. > Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make > such an ignorant statement. > I'm talking to you. I am a NAUI MASTER DIVER and DIVE MASTER with 16 > years of experience. A good Divemaster does more than just make coffee > and lead dives. I take the safety of everyone on my boat seriously. > Obviously you have never seen a good Divemaster or you wouldn't make > such an ignorant statement. A NAUI Divemaster once tried to help me with a customer's gear on the Singer Island pier, and got a free swimming lesson for it. Obviously, we haven't seen many good divemasters, you're right about that. I can dive better than you, blindfolded and handcuffed. > You must be a PADI diver. or just an idiot!!!!!!! You can always tell the AOL posters... <ducking> Master Diver is certified as having skill related to their own diving. Dive Master is certified has having dive organizing skills. Neither card impresses me -- I've seen complete incompetants with each. > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sy Master Scuba Certification is different depending if it is PADI (basically Rescue Diver Course plus any 5 specialties does it) or NAUI which is a very intense training consisting of rescue dives, deep dives, search and recovery and a written test that will make the Bar Exam look like a joke. I was originally certified Openwater with NAUI, then went for my advanced OW with PADI. I went back to NAUI for my Master when I realized that NAUI was more difficult and indepth than PADI. My NAUI Master Course was more into the physics of the sport, the geological and meteorological aspects of the sport. I can spot a PADI diver 9 times out of 10 when I go diving. PADI trains tons of divers, NAUI trains fewer, but in my opinion, does it better. My .02, and YMMV. > Master Scuba Certification is different depending if it is PADI > (basically Rescue Diver Course plus any 5 specialties does it) or NAUI > which is a very intense training consisting of rescue dives, deep > dives, search and recovery and a written test that will make the Bar > Exam look like a joke. I'm curious what bar exam you took that was a joke compared to the NAUI MD written test. I've taken two and, while I did find one was easier than the other, I don't see how you can compare a three day post-doctoral exam with any scuba test unless it's the Mike Grey version. BTW, your description of the NAUI Master course sounds close to L.A. County's Advanced course. Now that's a class I'd love to take, if only I had the time . . . http://www.lascuba.com/adp.html Over 100 Hours of Training Lectures: Oceanography Navigation Rescue Physics Physiology Physical conditioning Diving equipment Medical aspects of diving Marine life identification Dive planning Dive tables and computers Decompression theory Altitude/Freshwater diving Search and recovery Technical diving Minimum of 14 Dives: Night, Deep, Navigation Dives Sandy and Rocky Beaches Altitude/Freshwater Boat dive Search and light salvage Weekend camp-out Casino Point, Catalina Island <snip> > I'm curious what bar exam you took that was a joke compared to the NAUI MD > written test. I've taken two and, while I did find one was easier than the > other, I don't see how you can compare a three day post-doctoral exam with > any scuba test unless it's the Mike Grey version. <snip> Perhaps it was being confused with the bar *tenders* exam... GD&R, JRE > I can spot a PADI diver 9 times out of 10 when I go diving. PADI > trains tons of divers, NAUI trains fewer, but in my opinion, does it > better. I have seen crappy divers and proffesionals from all the traning agencys. Naui, SSI and CMAS included. >> I can spot a PADI diver 9 times out of 10 when I go diving. PADI >> trains tons of divers, NAUI trains fewer, but in my opinion, does it >> better. >I have seen crappy divers and proffesionals from all the traning agencys. >Naui, SSI and CMAS included. I have a friend who is both a PADI and NAUI instructor. Which he teaches depends on which shop he's teaching out of. Is he crap when he teaches PADI and golden when he teaches NAUI? Signaturedillon I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetarian. > >> I can spot a PADI diver 9 times out of 10 when I go diving. PADI > >> trains tons of divers, NAUI trains fewer, but in my opinion, does it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > teaches depends on which shop he's teaching out of. Is he crap when > he teaches PADI and golden when he teaches NAUI? Nether - he's not GUE. Dennis who isn't GUE either, bt its been awhile since they've been brought up. > Nether - he's not GUE. GUE ? If you think you need to be that carefull you shouldent dive at all. > > Nether - he's not GUE. > GUE ? If you think you need to be that carefull you shouldent dive at all. So what is it that you think is "excessive"? Dennis The max 30 meters END. The bann on computers. The belive that that any plastic buggel will kill you. Lars >> > Nether - he's not GUE. >> GUE ? If you think you need to be that carefull you shouldent dive at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dennis >> So what is it that you think is "excessive"? > The max 30 meters END. The bann on computers. > The belive that that any plastic buggel will kill you. WTF is a plastic buggel? Curtis >>> So what is it that you think is "excessive"? > >> The max 30 meters END. The bann on computers. >> The belive that that any plastic buggel will kill you. > > WTF is a plastic buggel? A Danish sex toy. >> WTF is a plastic buggel? > > A Danish sex toy. Is it blue? >>> WTF is a plastic buggel? >> >> A Danish sex toy. > > Is it blue? All sex toys are "blue" by definition. If it's Danish, it might even be cream-filled. >>>> WTF is a plastic buggel? >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > All sex toys are "blue" by definition. But the blue one was famous for a while. <evil grin> > If it's Danish, (or used) it might even be cream-filled. > >> WTF is a plastic buggel? > > > > A Danish sex toy. > > Is it blue? You really are rotten. > ""Magilla"" <cavey_curtis@$$ yahoo.com> wrote in message > > > > > WTF is a plastic buggel? > > A Danish sex toy. Why don't you email him a picture of one from your collection? >> ""Magilla"" <cavey_curtis@$$ yahoo.com> wrote in message >> > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Why don't you email him a picture of one from your collection? Ya think I'm some kinda Jesus? Pictures cost money. > >>> So what is it that you think is "excessive"? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > A Danish sex toy. <cough> Man, what a way to go. Can you imagine how the ME's report would read? > <cough> > > Man, what a way to go. > > Can you imagine how the ME's report would read? Victim found floating face down near a dive flag, originally thought to be an alligator attack, was determined to have been buggeled to death. The buggel has not been found. The buggel is still stuck up your rectum where you hid it. >>> So what is it that you think is "excessive"? > >> The max 30 meters END. The bann on computers. >> The belive that that any plastic buggel will kill you. > > WTF is a plastic buggel? buckle. give 'im a break, he's not from Florida or Texas. >Curtis > Signaturedillon I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetarian. >> WTF is a plastic buggel? > > buckle. give 'im a break, he's not from Florida or Texas. Oh, already gave him quite a break, trust me on that one. ;-) "Buggel" had me wondering if he meant quick releases, or even tank boots, not to mention some kind of Danish sex toy. Curtis >>> WTF is a plastic buggel? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Curtis Actually he may have misspelled bugger, which is some type of Greek sex toy. Signaturedillon I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetarian. > The max 30 meters END. The bann on computers. > The belive that that any plastic buggel will kill you. So what END do you recommend? And as far ac omputers go, check the section on computer diving. http://www.gue.com/Equipment/Config/index.html All divers should learn the proper use of decompression tables in order to learn the actual process of decompression diving. Divers that choose to use computers should do so after becoming well-versed in diving limits and then using the computer primarily as an educational tool. > Lars Dennis <snip> "Lars Damkjær" <ld@dmail.dk> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :The belive that that any plastic buggel will kill you. That one is actually true. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > I have a friend who is both a PADI and NAUI instructor. Which he > teaches depends on which shop he's teaching out of. Is he crap when > he teaches PADI and golden when he teaches NAUI? If he's a good NAUI instructor, there are things he requires teaching NAUI that PADI will not allow him to require. The rules you're operating under can change you from great to lousy. Think of it this way - our local business community has a corporate athletic challenge - in softball they require that a the team playing offense provide the pitcher, i.e. you pitch to your own team. A great pitcher under real softball rules is a lousy one under these bizarre rules, and vice versa. >> I have a friend who is both a PADI and NAUI instructor. Which he >> teaches depends on which shop he's teaching out of. Is he crap when [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >pitcher, i.e. you pitch to your own team. A great pitcher under real >softball rules is a lousy one under these bizarre rules, and vice versa. The question still stands, is he crap when he teaches PADI? Am I a crap instructor because I'm PADI? I teach to the book, but anywhere there's lee way, I take it. Students don't pick the AOW dives, for instance. And all my OW students go to 60 on dive 3 before we do the skills review. A good instructor is good regardless of agency. That's the one thing everybody preaches here. Signaturedillon I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetarian. While under the supervision of a Dive Master, whether NAUI or PADI certified, I listen carefullly to what she or he says and do as I am told to do, no arguments, no whining. I'm a NAUI diver myself, and the best DM with whom I've enjoyed a dive under her supervision -- actually several -- was a PADI certified lady who really seemed to know her business. This manner in which I choose to conduct myself as a scuba diver has been many times rewarded with a compliment like, "Rob, I can tell you're one on this boat I don't have to worry about." -- Robert > While under the supervision of a Dive Master, whether NAUI or PADI > certified, I listen carefullly to what she or he says and do as I am [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > been many times rewarded with a compliment like, "Rob, I can tell you're > one on this boat I don't have to worry about." See... That's exactly the difference... While under the supervision of a Master Diver ( status and statutes were mentioned before)...."Rob, I can tell you're one on this boat I have to worry about." Matthias > While under the supervision of a Dive Master, whether NAUI or PADI > certified, I listen carefullly to what she or he says and do as I am > told to do, no arguments, no whining. That's it, listen to Big Brother and abdicate all responsibility for discerning the best course of action for yourself. > I'm a NAUI diver myself, With a PADI outlook. Robert Bigelow wrote: > While under the supervision of a Dive Master, whether NAUI or PADI > certified, I listen carefullly to what she or he says and do as I am > told to do, no arguments, no whining. When under the supervision of a Dive Master, I do the same. The difference, of course, is that I rarely accept that relationship. Lee > The question still stands, is he crap when he teaches PADI? Am I a > crap instructor because I'm PADI? I teach to the book, but anywhere > there's lee way, I take it. Students don't pick the AOW dives, for > instance. And all my OW students go to 60 on dive 3 before we do the > skills review. They go to 60 for dive 3 - whooptie do! How about something substantial? Do you require poised completion of task loading and stressing drills? Do you require that they can swim, or let them take the snorkeling option? Do you require buddy breathing? Do you teach a one weekend wonder diver course? > A good instructor is good regardless of agency. That's the one thing > everybody preaches here. Good is a matter of conduct, not identity. Agencies dictate the conduct of the course. Everybody also preaches that colds are caused by cold winds, rather than viruses. Popular opinion is no basis for objective truth. >> The question still stands, is he crap when he teaches PADI? Am I a >> crap instructor because I'm PADI? I teach to the book, but anywhere [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Everybody also preaches that colds are caused by cold winds, rather >than viruses. Popular opinion is no basis for objective truth. The mass killing of turkeys causes winter. "thelamarines@aol.com" <thelamarines@aol.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I can spot a PADI diver 9 times out of 10 when I go diving. So can I. Since PADI trains about 90% of all divers, if you say every diver you see is PADI, you will be right 9 times out of 10. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. That day has come and gone! > "thelamarines@aol.com" <thelamarines@aol.com> pounded away at his > keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption > =---- More Lies >Master Scuba Certification is different depending if it is PADI >(basically Rescue Diver Course plus any 5 specialties does it) or NAUI [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >trains tons of divers, NAUI trains fewer, but in my opinion, does it >better. My .02, and YMMV. He said, "that was his opinion"! What's your issue? > More Lies > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>trains tons of divers, NAUI trains fewer, but in my opinion, does it >>better. My .02, and YMMV. > He said, "that was his opinion"! What's your issue? Other than the fact that his "opinion" was complete and utter ignorant bullshit written by a dumbass, nothing, really. Spoken from a truly well educated individual. >> He said, "that was his opinion"! What's your issue? > > Other than the fact that his "opinion" was complete and utter ignorant > bullshit written by a dumbass, nothing, really. > Spoken from a truly well educated individual. Thank you. So you're saying that you agree with him? Or are you and I going to have another one of those exchanges where you never really -have- any point? > > Spoken from a truly well educated individual. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Or are you and I going to have another one of those exchanges where you > never really -have- any point? Oh, lets guess. > Spoken from a truly well educated individual. Yeah, pretty much. Don't top-post, BTW. > >> He said, "that was his opinion"! What's your issue? > > > > Other than the fact that his "opinion" was complete and utter ignorant > > bullshit written by a dumbass, nothing, really. Dennis >> Spoken from a truly well educated individual. > > Yeah, pretty much. > > Don't top-post, BTW. Roger >> >> He said, "that was his opinion"! What's your issue? >> > >> > Other than the fact that his "opinion" was complete and utter ignorant >> > bullshit written by a dumbass, nothing, really. > > Dennis > Spoken from a truly well educated individual. As compared to what? >> Spoken from a truly well educated individual. > > As compared to what? exactly! > >> Spoken from a truly well educated individual. > > > > As compared to what? > > > exactly! Since you obviously don't know Popeye, you really should put the dunce cap back on and man your post in the corner before you get pounded like a piece of cheap veal. Intellectually, of course. >> >> Spoken from a truly well educated individual. >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Intellectually, of course. Save it. >> Since you obviously don't know Popeye, you really should put the dunce >> cap [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Save it. Ho-hum. This is where we'll start asking you to make a point, per your usual M.O.. Repetitively. Just to help (and to forestall a wave of Northern Neighbor Scurrying & Obfuscation), we're asking for your position on this statement: "I can spot a PADI diver 9 times out of 10 when I go diving. PADI trains tons of divers, NAUI trains fewer, but in my opinion, does it better. My .02, and YMMV." Can -you- spot which agency a diver is from, Zammy? Can the L.A. Leatherneck? 9 out of 10 times? Popeye "If one does as God does enough times, one will become as God is." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> sputtered: > Since you obviously don't know Popeye, you really should put > the dunce cap back on and man your post in the corner before > you get pounded like a piece of cheap veal. > > Intellectually, of course. Douggy and you couldn't "intellectually" pound an actual piece of cheap veal. The veal has the advantage over both of you. > "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> sputtered: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The veal has the advantage over both of you. they do take advantage of you. the veal is smarter, and could fight back. if you were smarter, you would be embarrassed by yourself. bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> sputtered: >> "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> sputtered: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the veal is smarter, and could fight back. > if Scotty were smarter, Scotty would be embarrassed by himself You're just so lame, bobby. > bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> sputtered: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > You're just so lame, bobby. talk about chickenshit. you edited other posts,when you had nothing yourself to post. what you quoted and then modified was " they do take advantage of you. the veal is smarter, and could fight back. if you were smarter, you would be embarrassed by yourself. " write your own posts, chickenshit. > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** bob crownfield <crownfield@verizon.net> squawked: > talk about chickenshit. That's a good description of your squawking. Let's see you whine again, bobby. >> Spoken from a truly well educated individual. > > As compared to what? carLito the Loser? > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sy Joking aside.. Master Diver is a recreational certification earned when a diver has Rescue plus at least five specialties (which can be any of the specialties including Fish ID or Manatee Snorkeler) Divemaster is the entry level professional certification. The diver who earns has rescue and first aid training and has gone through a course to show dive skills both in and out of the water (skills equal to what was demanded of OW divers in the late 70's). Divemasters pay PADI (or whoever) annual dues to carry the certification. The card means they are licensed to be sherpas for any Dive Instructor within 150'. Master Divers are c-card collectors. Divemasters used to be respected but greed has lowered the standards and many DM's simply bought the card. In article That's why I asked. I had read somewhere that PADI had a lot to do with the loweing of the standards issue. >Divemasters used to be respected but greed has lowered the standards and > many DM's simply bought the card. <ombligo-811F1D.05525807052006@news-server1.tampabay.rr.com>, Ron T <ombligo@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > > "Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Divemasters used to be respected but greed has lowered the standards and > many DM's simply bought the card. SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com <sytech@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :That's why I asked. I had read somewhere that PADI had a lot to do :with the loweing of the standards issue. What lowering of the standards issue? Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > That's why I asked. I had read somewhere that PADI had a lot to do > with the loweing of the standards issue. That's a whole separate issue. Both cetifications existed before they started lowering standards. PADI DIVEMASTERS ar poorly trained as compared to NAUI DIVEMASTERS > PADI DIVEMASTERS ar poorly trained as compared to NAUI DIVEMASTERS Hmmm. I've seen very good and very bad from both agencies. Are you sure you want to make such a sweeping statement? > PADI DIVEMASTERS ar poorly trained as compared to NAUI DIVEMASTERS Is there some reason why you are hollering? > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? Minor spelling difference on the patch. > Any comments will be appreciated. Always glad to help. SignaturePopeye "If one does as God does enough times, one will become as God is." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com >Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & >"Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Sy Neither have the skill to become the Master baiter > >Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > >"Dive Master" designations? > > > >Any comments will be appreciated. > > Neither have the skill to become the Master baiter But they don't make Master Baiter patches. For the dyslexic diver, there is no difference. Otherwise, Ray has arisen to the bait and gave the Official Party Definition and Distinction of the two certifications. This is to fill in a gap or three. A Dive Master is sometimes referred to as a Dive Guide, and that's what they mostly do, in tourisy dive locations, showing clueless divers where the fishes and crustaceans are, and lead them back to the boat before they run out of air. In places like Cozumel, some Dive Masters are not only Instructors of several certifying agencies, but could even be the Master Trainer of Instructors. I know one such Dive Master, Paul Padilla in Cozumel, who has been called the Dive Master's Dive Master because of his knowledge about ALL the reefs in Cozumel (A Cozumel map of dive sites has annotation about each site by him). I met Paul circa 1990 when he was working as a DM for the Pro Dive Shop, and when I was already a PADI Master Diver (the official requirement is Rescue Diver and 5 Specialty Certs). You can get 5 or more Specialty Certifications (out of the several hundreds available) without even getting into the water. Equipment Specialist, e.g. Darwin (now owner of the Equalizer shop in Cozumel) was also a DM of the Pro Dive Shop. Thus, I was fortunate to be diving with Paul and learned many diving skills I SHOULD have been taught to become a Master Diver, when I was, in retrospect, just another Clueless Newbie that has arisen to the top of the non- professional rank. Neither the Dive Master nor the Master Diver has any requirement to learn some of the essential rudimends of dive physics and dive physiology -- of which dive Instructors are at least given some lip service, but not necessarily the working knowledge and skills to apply. A classic example was one Nick Simicich, who, after having been an instructor (of more than one agency) said in Boyle's Law, the Pressure is a LINEAR function of Volume. Lee Bell must have learned that from Nick, because Lee argued for weeks that P is a linear function of V when he first came to Scuba-L, around 1995. Of course, Lee Bell is the self-appointed instructor of all rec.scuba divers on all matters relating to scuba -- but with a completely EMPTY knowledge about scuba physics, physiology, as well as principles surrounding buoyancy. But Lee has a boat, with plenty of liquored stored, and his dysfunctionals pals in rec.scuba hails him as the Master to follow. <BG> So there you have it, what lurks beneath the world of scuba RANKS. A Master Diver could be a Clueless Newbie. A Dive Master could be from a Clueless Newbie to a supremely expert diver and instructor. But once they enter the ring of a discussion group such as rec.scuba, BULLSHIT CANON RULES! -- Bob. > A Dive Master is sometimes referred to as a Dive Guide, and > that's what they mostly do, in tourisy dive locations, showing > clueless divers where the fishes and crustaceans are, and lead > them back to the boat before they run out of air. I would not have called Bob a "clueless diver," but this makes me wonder since he's often expressed, and demonstrated his preference for following a guide rather than discovering things on his own. > A bunch of egotistical, non relevant stuff snipped. > Neither the Dive Master nor the Master Diver has any > requirement to learn some of the essential rudimends of > dive physics and dive physiology . . . You mean like the stuff that is required to get an open water certification, you know, the open water certification that is, more or less, required to get to either DM or MD? > A bunch of egotistical, non relevant personal attacks snipped. So, there you have it. Bob admits to being a clueless diver, gets the requirement for physics wrong, all while unsuccessfully trying to make himself look good and others look bad. Typical. > I would not have called Bob a "clueless diver," but this makes me wonder > since he's often expressed, and demonstrated his preference for following a > guide rather than discovering things on his own. Guided? Geeze, I really now have to wonder about Bob's lack of diving skills. The only real thing I've heard about are his deep bounce claims, yet I've buddied up with a double-amputee to go out on a deep bounce dive that he wanted to do, so I know very much that the touting about how deep one has dived literally doesn't take much swimming ability at all. ...and FWIW, as a buddy, I can definitely say that unlike Bob, Leo never kicked off mine or anyone else's mask off, which by that metric makes Leo a more skilled diver than Bob :-) > So, there you have it. Bob admits to being a clueless diver, gets the > requirement for physics wrong, all while unsuccessfully trying to make > himself look good and others look bad. While responding to a 5-day old post, after just claiming this week that a 3-day old post was "obsolete". > Typical. And predictable. He'll be back soon. -hh > Guided? Geeze, I really now have to wonder about Bob's lack of diving > skills. The only real thing I've heard about are his deep bounce > claims Which are definitely not a sign of skill. Curtis > Thus, I was fortunate to be diving with Paul and learned > many diving skills I SHOULD have been taught to become > a Master Diver, when I was, in retrospect, just another > Clueless Newbie that has arisen to the top of the non- > professional rank. <choke> Risen to the top of the non-professional ranks, eh? Clueless Oldie. My ribs ache something awful about now. Curtis > > Thus, I was fortunate to be diving with Paul and learned > > many diving skills I SHOULD have been taught to become [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > My ribs ache something awful about now. The image of Feeshies rising to the top of the septic tank *is* good for a laugh :-) > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sy Dive Master is the first "professional" level in recreational diving. A dive master is supposed to be able to aid in instruction, lead groups and teach a limited amount of diving (used to be you could "certify" someone as a snorkel diver). SSI calls this level a Dive Control Specialist. Either name means that they are just a little closer to instructor than an open water diver. Master Diver is merely a recognition of training and dives for those that don't want to go on to the instructional route. It is a program designed to keep divers taking additional courses to get that fancy card. Now, that said ... if you take classes to better your knowledge and get an improved understanding of diving, then either certification is great. However, if you are like a LOT of divers today, and are only interested in a string of patches and a pack of cards, then both certs are just indications that you have more money to spend than your buddy. Just my $.02 SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Webmonkey for: http://www.holugt-usa.com http://www.ossystems.com http://www.bobs-garage.com http://www.clanwolverine.org http://www.rayzplace.com > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sy Master Scuba Diver: Is a continuing education certification course for the divers who wish to increase their understanding and enjoyment of diving. Some subject areas are review and expansion of material from previous courses. Each subject is a progression in study not a definitive study in the particular diving activity. The Dive Master is pretty much what the others say it is. ZamaTim > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? It depends on which training agency's certifications you are talking about. A CMAS-ISA 3* Master Diver is a leadership qualification without the annual affilliation fees usually associated with a Dive Master. You are also not required to have medicals every year unless you are over 40, and you do not have to be current in first aid and CPR (but you have to be a rescue diver). It is not a bunch of specialities either and in CMAS-ISA it is a pre-requisite for enrolling on any other leadership qualification. It's a tough course which has about two months of part-time theory, and most people take 6 months to a year to complete the course. You are required to do 50 dives on the course, which are made up of deep dives (40 meters max), boat dives, fresh water dives, night dives, low viz dives, navigation dives, simulated underwater working dives, and search & recovery dives. There's also many dives which require you to assist a dive leader and act as a dive leader. HTH rgds monty > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sy Dive Master cert is good for serving coffee, and Master Diver is good for borrowing stuff from because they've got so much extra kit lying around. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' A master scuba diver is a recreational diver that has shown a high level of competence in the various specialties of recreational diving. A dive master according to NAUI is a professional position where that individual is resposible for the safety and well being of other divers in his charge. A good dive master is invaluable to a pleasant and safe diving experience. > Was wondering what the differences are between the "Master Diver" & > "Dive Master" designations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sy >A good dive master is invaluable to a pleasant and safe diving experience. Or you could learn how to dive competently without having your hand held instead. Trusting -any- part of your dive planning and safety to another, despite their alleged competency, makes you a danger to yourself and others around you in the water. You are correct but due to PADI's piss poor training a divemaster is neccessary to keep these idiots from hurting themselves. > You are correct but due to PADI's piss poor training a divemaster is > neccessary to keep these idiots from hurting themselves. <plonk> > You are correct but due to PADI's piss poor training a divemaster is > neccessary to keep these idiots from hurting themselves. Awh 'ell, you don't need no stinkin' training to learn how to dive... Just buy some equipment and figure it out for yourself... It worked for many of us old farts... Master Diver = US Navy designation for senior level diver with extensive experience Any other definition is just a bunch of wanna-be posers... |
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