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Scuba Forum / General / April 2006Pain in ears at depth...Is scuba for me?
Hi, I travel tot he Caribbean a lot and love to snorkel so I am thinking about taking scuba lessons this summer, but now I rememeber that when I swim down the the bottom of the pool (12 foot depth) I get acute pain in both ears that forces me to quickly return to the surface. So my question, is that pain normal? If I can expect to experience that pain while scuba diving, and worse at lower depths, I don't think I will enjoy it, however if everyone gets that pain at first and it goes away, thats another story. Or if there is some headgear that solves the problem please let me know. Thanks Strangways@gmail.com a écrit : > Hi, > I travel tot he Caribbean a lot and love to snorkel so I am thinking > about taking scuba lessons this summer, but now I rememeber that when I > swim down the the bottom of the pool (12 foot depth) I get acute pain > in both ears that forces me to quickly return to the surface. So my > question, is that pain normal? No, this pain is happening only because you don't do the right things. Your scuba instructor will tells you exactly what to do. Scuba diving doesn't hurt !!! ;-) after, even in a swimming pool, at 12 foot deep, if you use the correct way to equilibrate yours ears, you won't feel anymore pain. > If I can expect to experience that pain > while scuba diving, and worse at lower depths, I don't think I will > enjoy it, however if everyone gets that pain at first and it goes away, > thats another story. Or if there is some headgear that solves the > problem please let me know. Thanks the pain will turn in an accident. No doubt about that. the more deeper you will go , more the pain will be stronger. I can tell you that headgear will not be the solution. Other people on this forum will tells you the same thing, with a better english than I did ... ;-) Good Scuba lessons !!! Benoit. >Strangways@gmail.com a écrit : >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Other people on this forum will tells you the same thing, with a better >english than I did ... ;-) You did perfectly well. >Good Scuba lessons !!! >Benoit.  Signaturedillon I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetartian. > Hi, > I travel tot he Caribbean a lot and love to snorkel so I am thinking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > thats another story. Or if there is some headgear that solves the > problem please let me know. Thanks Do an internet search on equalizing your ears and get some information. The problem you are having is normal, but putting up with the pain is not. You're risking permanent damage by not knowing how to equalize the pressure inside your ears with that which is outside. You will learn how to do this is scuba training, but I don't recommend you wait. The risk is real, now. Lee >Hi, >I travel tot he Caribbean a lot and love to snorkel so I am thinking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >thats another story. Or if there is some headgear that solves the >problem please let me know. Thanks Pain is your body's way of telling you something is wrong. You should equalize your ears while snorkeling and there are techniques for doing so. It is also easier, in my opinion, to equalize while on SCUBA than while free diving. My tubes usually block early in my dives so I pre-press with a Valsalva maneuver on the surface and then I repeat the equalization very early and often in the descent. Once I am down I generally have no problems and never block on ascent. Many people don't have problems equalizing on SCUBA and a simple jaw movement or head turn can often do it for them. Head down descents also aggravate the equalization problems and this is usually very necessary in snorkeling but seldom necessary on SCUBA. You will learn all these things in SCUBA training and it will be a high priority I am sure. > Head down descents also aggravate > the equalization problems and this is usually very necessary in > snorkeling but seldom necessary on SCUBA. Totally incorrect. The position of your head while descending head first helps ease equalization. > You will learn all these > things in SCUBA training and it will be a high priority I am sure. Not sure what the feet first descent is about, unless it's related to the diver in the wrong position trying to walk through water. ;-) But, even there, remember being told to raise your head as you equalize? BTW, damn near never descend feet first, funny watching that in an upward flow. Curtis "Magilla" wrote: > Totally incorrect. The position of your head while descending head > first helps ease equalization. You're the first person I've heard say so. It's always been much harder for me. >> Totally incorrect. The position of your head while descending head >> first helps ease equalization. > >You're the first person I've heard say so. It's always been much harder >for me. Quite simply get some advice and or take a course from your local scuba dive instructor. There is no mystery to equalizing your ears when diving on scuba or snorkeling. As a scuba instructor you will find many people dive down head first. You stop and equalize often , every few feet or as needed. It's easy to learn and advisable for any type of diving. Kind Regards & Best Fishes PADI MSDT www.save-money-diving.com >>> Totally incorrect. The position of your head while descending head >>> first helps ease equalization. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > first. You stop and equalize often , every few feet or as needed. It's easy > to learn and advisable for any type of diving. Bite me. >>> Totally incorrect. The position of your head while descending head >>> first helps ease equalization. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > easy > to learn and advisable for any type of diving. Quite simply, you're full of sh.t. PADI has a course in equalizing now, or what? An -experienced- instructor would tell you that the reason there are so many different ways to equalize is that one way doesn't work for everyone. Different bodies will equalize better using different methods. When I dive for the first time, my left ear is all but impossible to clear (Right one's like a wind tunnel). I usually take my mask off, and blow my nose repeatedly, dozens of times, to get it to pop. I tried valsalva, jaw clench, swallowing, coughing, gouging a thumb into my neck, rolling my head like a wino. Must be feet down, -period-. 5 dives later, I just stretch my neck left and right, bingo. I always pre-equalize before getting off the boat, and huff Sinex in a way that would make a coke whore blush. I had the doc check my ueyooo...eau.... ewuu.. tube thingies and he said they look fine to him. > Kind Regards > & > Best Fishes > PADI MSDT SignaturePopeye "If one does as God does enough times, one will become as God is." -Dr. Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > "Magilla" wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You're the first person I've heard say so. It's always been much harder > for me. Methinks Curtis is of the no-pain, no-gain tradition. Whatever floats his boat. "Descend feet first, if possible. This allows air to travel upward into the eustachian tube and middle ear, a more natural direction. Use a descent line or the anchor line." -- Instructions for Equalizing Ears and Sinuses, Allen Dekelboum, M.D., http://www.scuba-doc.com/Equalizing_Techniques.pdf "Air tends to rise up your Eustachian tubes, and fluid-like mucus tends to drain downward. Studies have shown a Valsalva maneuver requires 50 percent more force when you're in a head-down position than head-up. " -- http://www.dansa.org/downloads/The%20Divers%20Complete%20Guide%20to%20the%20Ear.pdf "Descend feet first to prevent changes in the throat that will block the Eustachian tubes when your head is down." -- "Ears and Diving", Fred Bove, M.D., PhD, http://www.skin-diver.com/departments/ScubaMed/EarsandDiving.asp?theID=629 > "Descend feet first, if possible. This allows air to travel upward into > the eustachian tube and middle ear, a more natural direction. Use a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > M.D., PhD, > http://www.skin-diver.com/departments/ScubaMed/EarsandDiving.asp?theID=629 Think you are confusing head first with totally inverted. My actual head position is similiar, just body position and direction of movement are different. Valsalva works better when chin is up, something I learned way before my caving adventures started. Curtis "Magilla" wrote: > Think you are confusing head first with totally inverted. My actual > head position is similiar, just body position and direction of movement are > different. Yeah, basically level but tilted head down isn't bad for me. Freediving straight down is still an issue. > Think you are confusing head first with totally inverted. I think most of us think that a head down descent means you are inverted. Lee >> Think you are confusing head first with totally inverted. > > I think most of us think that a head down descent means you are inverted. O + vs ++++ + ++++ + -O You're thinking + + + O maybe? Curtis "Magilla" wrote: >>> Think you are confusing head first with totally inverted. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Curtis I was! >> Think you are confusing head first with totally inverted. > > I think most of us think that a head down descent means you are inverted. To me, it's never mattered anyways, always equalized easily unless congested, has always been easier head first, regardless of the exact angle. Only place I recall feetfirst descent since AOW training ended is Friedman's Sink. Al can explain that one I bet. In all honesty, I see a feet first descent, I think newbie. Curtis > In all honesty, I see a feet first descent, I think newbie. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Rupert_king_diving_suit_03.JPG Yeap, looks like a newbie to me... Or cement overshoes? Oh, that would be the Chicago 'divers'... http://www.denniswest.com/images/blog/lost.jpg If Grace is having trouble equalizing or whatever, I'll slowly decend feet first while looking up at her... It allows me to be back up to her level with just a kick or two if necessary... Other than that or perhaps going down a chimney in a new cave where I'm not sure if there is enough room to turn around, I don't think that I go feet first, but quite frankly, I don't think that I really pay much attention to it... I've ascended and done my safety stop inverted just to mess with Grace's mind before... <evil-grin> > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Rupert_king_diving_suit_03.JPG > > Yeap, looks like a newbie to me... Yeah, looks like a scuba diver too.......about as self contained as Ding-a-Ling....... > Yeah, looks like a scuba diver too.......about as self contained as > Ding-a-Ling....... Well, I didn't remember anything in the previous message that said "self contained"... I figured that the topic had probably morphed enough by that point that the message subject was not restrictive at that point... OK, you want self contained and decending feet first, how about this... http://www.oceanworks.cc/products/subsea-hardsuit-atmospheric-diving-suit.html 6-8 hours normal dive time, 48 hours life support... It might be a bit clumsy for some of the smaller cave openings... "Magilla" wrote: >>> Think you are confusing head first with totally inverted. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Curtis Or someone who's been diving so long that their ears and sinuses are fused into one big cruddy lump. >> In all honesty, I see a feet first descent, I think newbie. > Or someone who's been diving so long that their ears and sinuses are fused > into one big cruddy lump. OK, that's sometimes true, but an exemption is granted in the stereotyping when the other newbie traits are conspicuously missing. Curtis >>"Magilla" wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > M.D., PhD, > http://www.skin-diver.com/departments/ScubaMed/EarsandDiving.asp?theID=629 I have always done feet first - I do experience my left ear having trouble clearing. Sometimes I have to ascend a few feet and work my way down. I think we were taught exactly what Greg has quoted above. I guess I could try head first (once) and see what happens > I have always done feet first - I do experience my left ear having trouble > clearing. Sometimes I have to ascend a few feet and work my way down. I > think we were taught exactly what Greg has quoted above. > > I guess I could try head first (once) and see what happens I'll only descend feet first if I'm having trouble clearing. Otherwise head first is much faster: you can kick down to where all the good stuff is rather than waste time sinking down slowly. > I'll only descend feet first if I'm having trouble clearing. Otherwise head > first is much faster: you can kick down to where all the good stuff is > rather than waste time sinking down slowly. My current method is to sink feet first from the surface to about 4-5', sliding down and backward into a horizontal position. My buddy does the same, in the opposite direction so that we maintain eye contact. If we aren't having any trouble there, then we just fall straight to the bottom in the parachuter's position. Not quite as fast as heading down completely inverted, but I find it quite efficient. It saves time overall, especially in low viz situations, since you never get separated. > My current method is to sink feet first from the surface to about 4-5', > sliding down and backward into a horizontal position. My buddy does the > same, in the opposite direction so that we maintain eye contact. If we > aren't having any trouble there, then we just fall straight to the bottom > in the parachuter's position. How often do you have trouble at 4-5'? > How often do you have trouble at 4-5'? If I have trouble, that's where it happens, where the pressure changes are greatest. I over pressurize my ears on the surface and equalize several times before 15 feet, usually. If I don't, my ears get wedged and there's nothing to do but go back up. To freedive, I had to learn to equalize continuously in that range, which always left me short of air. I could spend over 2 minutes at 10 feet, but going deeper always shortened my time because of the costs of equalizing. Trace just puffs once at 15 feet and continues. My best was 40 feet. Give me ears like his and I would hit 100 feet easily. > My current method is to sink feet first from the surface to about 4-5', > sliding down and backward into a horizontal position. My buddy does the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > completely inverted, but I find it quite efficient. It saves time overall, > especially in low viz situations, since you never get separated. If dropping straight down, that's what I do, but usually I'm trying to cover a horizontal distance also. Since I'm moving forward, with head lower than body, it's head first. Guess the point is I don't do that fins down, sinking or arm paddling down sh.t in ready position to walk on the bottom when I get there. As Grummy is hinting, that's for the hard hat boys (without the arm waving part). Curtis > Guess the point is I don't do that fins down, sinking or arm paddling > down sh.t in ready position to walk on the bottom when I get there. As > Grummy is hinting, that's for the hard hat boys (without the arm waving > part). Oh, I don't know... That atmospheric diving suit does kind of look like Robby the Robot from the the old "Forbidden Plane" movie... Are we *sure* the arms don't wave all around like the other Robby in the "Lost in Space" TV series? <snicker> "Danger Will Robbinson! Danger!" > BTW, damn near never descend feet first, funny watching that in an upward > flow. One dive in the lake behind my house will change your mind. For quite some time, agencies have recommended against head down descents. I've always assumed that it was for situations specifically like my lake, where visibility may be so poor that you encounter something hard, or worse, sharp, before you see it. Last time I descended head first in my lake, I stuck my mask in the mud before I knew I'd reached the bottom. I've never noticed that the position of my head had any particular effect on my ability to equalize. I suppose it's possible, but I've not noticed. In anything but the worst visibility, head down works for me. I like to see where I'm going and what is there. Those that descend feet first probably never see the sharks that tend to depart as divers descend. I get to see them fairly often. Lee > I've never noticed that the position of my head had any particular effect on > my ability to equalize. I suppose it's possible, but I've not noticed. When I was learning to freedive with Trace, it really made a difference. If I went down a line feet first, no problem, but head down took a very long time for me to master. Unfortunately, it's really hard to get very far downward with big fins pointing straight down. >Hi, >I travel tot he Caribbean a lot and love to snorkel so I am thinking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >thats another story. Or if there is some headgear that solves the >problem please let me know. Thanks If you are suffering pain and it suddenly goes away, something VERY BAD has happened. With proper instruction (as everyone else has already pointed out) you'll do just fine. Signaturedillon I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetartian. Anyone ever try this mask? It looks like a flooding problem to me! http://cgi.ebay.com/Pro-Ear-Mask-Dive-Masks-Pro-Ear_W0QQitemZ7237029009QQcategor yZ71161QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > Hi, > I travel tot he Caribbean a lot and love to snorkel so I am thinking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > thats another story. Or if there is some headgear that solves the > problem please let me know. Thanks |
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