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Scuba Forum / General / May 2006Equipment Problem in Costa Rica
I recently dove in Northern Guanacaste Province, Costa Rica. I tried several dive shops (Aquacenter in Flamingo Beach was the most professional of them all) but had a problem at one particular place. By the way, when I asked a guy at the hotel if he knew this particular dive shop owner he said "Yeah, 'Joe' is a real nice guy. He's here at the bar every evening". That should have tipped me off right there. On our first morning dive we went to about 60 feet for about 30 minutes or so. At about 700 psi left in my tank, I got the attention of the divemaster and we started to ascend and at about 30 feet or sol I noticed that there were air bubbles coming from from the "face" of my air gauge. I stayed right near the divemaster in case I needed to use his octopus. He didn't seem concerned and the psi reading kept dropping "too quickly". Anyway, we made a truncated safety stop at 15 feet and ascended. When I got on the boat I told the owner (the drinker) what had happened. He kind of "pooh poohed" the matter and said that a few "breathfulls" of air might have been lost by the air bubbles. He also acknowledged that my tank was empty! Can anyone give me feedback on this besides the obvious advice to stay away from alcoholic diver types? Thanks, Sy  SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com > I recently dove in Northern Guanacaste Province, Costa Rica. I tried > several dive shops (Aquacenter in Flamingo Beach was the most > professional of them all) but had a problem at one particular place. > By the way, when I asked a guy at the hotel if he knew this particular > dive shop owner he said "Yeah, 'Joe' is a real nice guy. He's here at > the bar every evening". That should have tipped me off right there. Why? How does a dive shop owner's choice to unwind at the local bar necessarily impact how he runs his business during the day? > On our first morning dive we went to about 60 feet for about 30 minutes > or so. At about 700 psi left in my tank, I got the attention of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > dropping "too quickly". Anyway, we made a truncated safety stop at 15 > feet and ascended. > When I got on the boat I told the owner (the drinker) what had > happened. He kind of "pooh poohed" the matter and said that a few [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Can anyone give me feedback on this besides the obvious advice to stay > away from alcoholic diver types? You didn't say what your normal air consumption is like. You didn't seem surprised that you were down to 700 psi after only a half-hour. Plus your writing indicates that you were obviously stressed by the bubbles and not too confident underwater ("I stayed right near the divemaster . . .") so it makes sense that you were sucking down the last 700 psi at a rapid rate, ending up with an "empty" tank on the boat. BTW, what do you mean by "empty". You didn't say that you ran out of air underwater. The owner (the drinker) was likely correct that the bubbles used up nothing more than a few breaths of air. Nothing about his presence at the bar implies that he's an alcoholic since (a) you don't know what he's drinking there (could be diet coke), and (b) bars are the usual social gathering place for expats in third-world countries even when they don't drink. The obvious advice here is for you to stay away from diving. Have you considered golf? If not, at least bring your own gear, especially when diving in third-world countries where maintenance may not be up to American standards and liability and insurance are practically non-existent. (BTW, had you not taken your own advice to avoid PADI-affiliated dive centers, you could have complained to PADI about your experience) > [It] was likely correct that the bubbles used up nothing >more than a few breaths of air. ... Maybe, but... Bubbles coming out of SCUBA gear where there should be no bubbles indicate a maintence problem. It could be a prelude to a more serious failure. The general rule is don't dive with equimpent that is not woriking properly. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. Thanks for your clarity of mind. > > [It] was likely correct that the bubbles used up nothing > >more than a few breaths of air. ... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The general rule is don't dive with equimpent that is not woriking properly. SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com >> [It] was likely correct that the bubbles used up nothing >>more than a few breaths of air. ... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >indicate a maintence problem. It could be a prelude to a more >serious failure. Yeah, but my experience in this kind of circumstance is that it's a HP leak. Obviously something that need repair, but not a catastrophe. HP failures have been discussed to death here. The "consensus" is that you don't lose air the quickly. But it still needs to be fixed. >The general rule is don't dive with equimpent that is not woriking properly. Finish the dive you're on, don't dive with the gear again. I've seen HP hoses leak along 1/3 of their length. Don't know why, although long ago, in a far off distant land, I was told to never, never ever, no not even once let your tank roll on the HP hose. Signaturedillon I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to become a vegetartian. I had the feeling I'd get some kind of VERY defensive harangue about "what's drinking got to do with diving safety". The guy I am referring to is a heavy drinker. He doesn't come to the bar to drink diet cola on a nightly basis, I can assure you. Regarding "How does a dive shop owner's choice to unwind at the local bar necessarily impact how he runs his business during the day?". With all the talk about diving safety and procedures how come many folks like yourself don't dare acknowledge that getting a buzz the night before can have all sorts of residual effects such as impairing reaction times and good judgement. My background is not that of a teetotaler but if you think that booze or similar substances don't have an effect (even hours after imbibing) then you have literally missed the boat. Have one for me. Sy > With all the talk about diving safety and procedures how come many > folks like yourself don't dare acknowledge that getting a buzz the > night before can have all sorts of residual effects such as impairing > reaction times and good judgement. Of course we acknowledge it. That's why we don't get too drunk the night before we do our 2 mile cave penetrations at 300'. But you were talking about a 60' reef dive. > My background is not that of a teetotaler but if you think that booze > or similar substances don't have an effect (even hours after imbibing) > then you have literally missed the boat. I'm still not certain how his off-hour imbibing caused your gauge to bubble. Maybe I did miss the boat. [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] > > With all the talk about diving safety and procedures how come many > > folks like yourself don't dare acknowledge that getting a buzz the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > before we do our 2 mile cave penetrations at 300'. But you were talking > about a 60' reef dive. Not "too drunk" eh? Whadda guy. Clearly your hubris about this will one day cause you a serious problem. Maybe underwater, behind the wheel, somewhere. What is the worst part of this kind of faux machismo is that you'll probably end of hurting someone else in the process. How many people here would like to have you as their dive buddy on that or any dive? > > My background is not that of a teetotaler but if you think that booze > > or similar substances don't have an effect (even hours after imbibing) > > then you have literally missed the boat. > > I'm still not certain how his off-hour imbibing caused your gauge to bubble. > Maybe I did miss the boat. Because a drunk is less likely to pay attention to details which may affect his abilities to perform basic equipment maintenance functions for example. I should have added that this guy had forgotten to ask me for payment for the dives (I went up to him and gave him the travelers checks but am wondering if I should have "forgotten" to pay him inasmuch as he contributed to what could have been a major problem for me). He also "forgot" to ask me to produce a C card which he had requested the day before. Pick up a book on liquor or other drugs and read up about the cognitive and other performance decrements it can cause, even hours or days after the fact. You remind me of the drinkers or pot heads that say things like "I drive even better after I get buzzed because it relaxes me". Or "because I know I'm buzzed I'm even MORE careful". DUH! SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com >> But you were talking about a 60' reef dive. > Not "too drunk" eh? Whadda guy. Clearly your hubris about this will > one day cause you a serious problem. Maybe underwater, behind the > wheel, somewhere. What is the worst part of this kind of faux machismo > is that you'll probably end of hurting someone else in the process. I kind of thought you started this off explaining how you didn't have a lot of experience. I kind of thought that you wanted input from those that do. I now see that I much have been mistaken. You're the expert and Greg, who is an instructor and a rather experienced diver, by the way, the amateur. > How many people here would like to have you as their dive buddy on that > or any dive? Quite a few of us, actually. The next time we have Greg for a buddy will be on the Spiegel Grove, over Memorial Day weekend. We've filled one boat and are working on the second. Perhaps you read about it here in this group under the heading Dive with Greg. Guess who Greg is. Some day, you might be invited on a trip like this too, but not soon. It's a bit beyond your ability at present. > Because a drunk is less likely to pay attention to details which may > affect his abilities to perform basic equipment maintenance functions > for example. As I recall, from your story, the "drunk" was on the boat, not in the water. I believe you were the one in the water with the defective equipment. If you, who I assume put the equipment together and turned on the gas, didn't notice before you got in the water, why would you expect someone sitting on the boat to notice for you? > I should have added that this guy had forgotten to ask me for payment > for the dives (I went up to him and gave him the travelers checks but > am wondering if I should have "forgotten" to pay him inasmuch as he > contributed to what could have been a major problem for me). He also > "forgot" to ask me to produce a C card which he had requested the day > before. Perhaps he remembered? > Pick up a book on liquor or other drugs and read up about the cognitive > and other performance decrements it can cause, even hours or days after > the fact. Greg, and others in this group, could have written the book. I'd take Greg, even after drinking, on a lot of dives that I would not take you on, at this point in your dive training, under any circumstances. > You remind me of the drinkers or pot heads that say things > like "I drive even better after I get buzzed because it relaxes me". > Or "because I know I'm buzzed I'm even MORE careful". You remind us of someone who needs to blame someone else for his own mistakes. Greg already told you that, normally, you should not dive with defective equipment. Apparently, you weren't listening very well. I think Greg's unlikely to say something like that, at least seriously. I will say, though, that I used to drive an airboat better with a buzz than I did cold sober. > DUH! Exactly. Lee, who's suffering from the effects of last night's drinking. Maybe an hour or so of high PPO2 gas will help clear the fog from my mind. In rec.scuba, "Lee Bell" wrote in message news:EnuXf.3118$L7.867@bignews2.bellsouth.net... > Lee, who's suffering from the effects of last night's drinking. Maybe an > hour or so of high PPO2 gas will help clear the fog from my mind. Or high PPN2 to even out the fog... > Or high PPN2 to even out the fog... Nah. Went to the gun show instead. Bought two new magazines for the H&K Compact .45 and a new compensated barrel that sticks out well beyond the slide and, unfortunately, the holster. I'm not sure I'll like that. What I will like is the fact that the new barrel It's my first compensated weapon ever. We'll see. I also picked up a double magazine pouch for the new magazines. The magazines were a bitch to find. There were three in the whole show. I got the first one for $45. The guy that had the second one wanted $56 for it. I found the third one for $40. The damned things are hard to come by. One of the local dealers tried to order me a couple, including from the US distributor, with no luck. The most frustrated part of all of this is that there were no reloading supplies there at all. I was looking to buy 5,000, give or take, Remington Large Pistol primers and a few thousand .45 bullets of various weights and configurations. The 185 grain JHPs are interesting. They seem accurate, with good speed and energy, but with relatively low recoil. I also hoped to get an inertial bullet puller. No luck at all. There wasn't a single piece of reloading anything, anywhere in the shop. Guess I'll have to pay shipping and hazmat charges after all . . . and wait for the goods to arrive. Damn. Lee > >> But you were talking about a 60' reef dive. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I now see that I much have been mistaken. You're the expert and Greg, who > is an instructor and a rather experienced diver, by the way, the amateur. Lee, Yes I did acknowledge that I am not all that experienced with diving and I did want imput but not a harangue from people who are minimizing the effects that drinking can have on one's performance. The fact that this is articulated so defensively makes me wonder who has really got some problems with their booze, eh? What I really find interesting and at the same time somewhat disturbiing is the cavalier attitude about the dive shop owner's inebriated behavior (multiple examples of forgetting for example) and no recognition of how that can affect his ability to captain his ship or perform maintenance on his equipment. Several people here, rather than acknowledging this, prefer to say that it's my fault . I said clearly that the bubbling started after we were under water for a while. >I'd take Greg, > even after drinking, on a lot of dives that I would not take you on, at this > point in your dive training, under any circumstances. This statement is beyond being simply stupid. >You remind us of someone who needs to blame someone else for his own > mistakes. Greg already told you that, normally, you should not dive with > defective equipment. Apparently, you weren't listening very well There was no indication a priori that there was anything defective about the equipment. The only defective thing was entrusting my safety to an addled dive shop owner. That was the whole point. Much of what you have written here is a demonstration of an apparent inability to understand clear english. > I think Greg's unlikely to say something like that, at least seriously. I > will say, though, that I used to drive an airboat better with a buzz than I > did cold sober. So you say it seriously. All this posturing about a very very simple idea. "Drinking and driving don't mix. Why should drinking and diving" > > How many people here would like to have you as their dive buddy on that > > or any dive? [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > Lee, who's suffering from the effects of last night's drinking. Maybe an > hour or so of high PPO2 gas will help clear the fog from my mind. SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com In rec.scuba, <sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message <crossposting-snipped> > Yes I did acknowledge that I am not all that experienced with diving > and I did want imput but not a harangue from people who are minimizing > the effects that drinking can have on one's performance. The fact that > this is articulated so defensively makes me wonder who has really got > some problems with their booze, eh? Apparently, *you* have a problem with booze... > The only defective thing was entrusting my safety > to an addled dive shop owner. Oh gee, your safety is the dive shop owner's responsibility? Give us a break... You're responsible for your own safety... A couple bubbles coming from your hose is not a major issue... Finish the dive with it, replace it at your earliest convenience... I had a pressure gauge that did that to me in Cozumel... Scavenged a replacement off of some spare equipment that I brought with me so that I could dive the next day and went searching around the island for a replacement afterwards... No big deal... If you get bent out of shape over a minor equipment malfunction, prehaps you should take up a lower risk hobby... Basket weaving, perhaps? > In rec.scuba, <sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > out of shape over a minor equipment malfunction, prehaps you should take up > a lower risk hobby... Basket weaving, perhaps? That could be too hazardous as well. If the reeds, canes (or whatever) being weaved snaps back, one could lose an eye. Well...maybe if a helmet was used.... Dennis > > >> But you were talking about a 60' reef dive. > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > clearly that the bubbling started after we were under water for a > while. Check for leaks at the surface? Might also want to get into the habit of checking for bubbles at the surface. > >I'd take Greg, > > even after drinking, on a lot of dives that I would not take you on, at this > > point in your dive training, under any circumstances. > > This statement is beyond being simply stupid. I think what he's saying is that he trusts Greg, even drunk, more so than he trusts you sober. Might want to reflect on that for a bit. Dennis Dennis, I've gotten several emails from people directly. They apparently have been "involved" in these forums for a quite a while. They've pointed out that there are many people here who have lots of experience and knowledge about scuba. I can see that. They also informed me (like I needed proof) that there are some overcompensating frat boy types who spend way too much time at their keyboards simply being obnoxious and waiting for their hangovers to subside. > Dennis, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They've pointed out that there are many people here who have lots of > experience and knowledge about scuba. I can see that. Goodo. > They also informed me (like I needed proof) that there are some > overcompensating frat boy types who spend way too much time at their > keyboards simply being obnoxious and waiting for their hangovers to > subside. Ahh..the supportive private emails. Never heard that one before Dennis >> Dennis, >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Dennis I get em all the time. You on the other hand don't.......cause your an a.shole. >>>Dennis, >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I get em all the time. You on the other hand don't.......cause your an > a.shole. yeah right - private emails - are your supporters to embarrassed to make it PUBLIC? from "Don" >> I get em all the time. You on the other hand don't.......cause your an >> a.shole. > yeah right - private emails - are your supporters to embarrassed to make > it PUBLIC? If you were, wouldn't you be? ;-) "Magilla" wrote: > from "Don" > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > If you were, wouldn't you be? ;-) aaaaaaaah yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa "Magilla" wrote: > from "Don" > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > If you were, wouldn't you be? ;-) I support Don's right to enhage in the pursuit of being a total screaming a.shole. Signature“Striving for mediocrity” ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 > I support Don's right to enhage in the pursuit of being a total screaming > a.shole. Mild point, I support his entry into my ignore list. ;-) Curtis > from "Don" > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > If you were, wouldn't you be? ;-) What do you know about embarrassment???? You walk around at 280+. f.cking slob. >>>>Dennis, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > yeah right - private emails - are your supporters to embarrassed to make > it PUBLIC? Hey I get emails. Your a f.cking faggit...............why would this suprise ya? > >> Dennis, > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I get em all the time. You on the other hand don't.......cause your an > a.shole. I would've thought it was due to having an in alid e-mail address. If y'would, please learn the difference between "your" and "you're". Dennis >> >> Dennis, >> >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Dennis No........he's an a.shole. Has nothing to do with email addy. Sorry for the spelling........you must have spent hours trying to figure out what I meant. Do people really call you Icarus?? Big on the myth thing are ya? Elaborate on that would ya? > >> >> Dennis, > >> >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > No........he's an a.shole. Has nothing to do with email addy. Sorry for the > spelling........you must have spent hours trying to figure out what I meant. Knew what you meant, though when I see the same mistake time & again, moves it from the realm of "typo" to "misunderstanding". Like "in alid" above. Typo, since I just left off the "v". However, were I to use that time & again, I'd appreciate a correction. And kind of ironic givne the way y'keep trying to insult other posters :-) > Do people really call you Icarus?? Big on the myth thing are ya? Elaborate > on that would ya? Nah. Dennis >> >> >> Dennis, >> >> >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > again, I'd appreciate a correction. > And kind of ironic givne the way y'keep trying to insult other posters :-) As long as we're clear that you're an a.shole np. >> Do people really call you Icarus?? Big on the myth thing are ya? > Elaborate [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dennis Smart move. Your learning. > Dennis, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > keyboards simply being obnoxious and waiting for their hangovers to > subside. Or perhaps you don't like having your complicity in the matter bluntly pointed out? Signature"The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storms terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore." - Vincent van Gogh www.finalprotectivefire.com - Buy your own SCUBA Diving equipment.. Buy it from a full service Dive shop Have it maintained annually " So I buy this Parachute on Ebay and it Rips to sh.t.." DIving can be dangerous.. Buy your own equipment.. .. > [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see > the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > DUH! > > > With all the talk about diving safety and procedures how come many > > > folks like yourself don't dare acknowledge that getting a buzz the > > > night before can have all sorts of residual effects such as impairing > > > reaction times and good judgement. For one thing, there's always the examples of where someone comes in with only half the story. For example, based on what has been said, we know that the dive shop owner was apparently at a bar the prior night, and that "sytech" did a dive with a DM the next day, but we don't clearly know if the DM was this owner, or a second person who is a complete tea toatler. So...was the Owner and the DM the same guy, or two different people? > > Of course we acknowledge it. That's why we don't get too drunk the night > > before we do our 2 mile cave penetrations at 300'. But you were talking > > about a 60' reef dive. Which comes back into risk identification and management. Being able to see that there is a difference is one of the marks of a competent diver. > Not "too drunk" eh? ... What is the worst part of this kind of faux machismo > is that you'll probably end of hurting someone else in the process. Sorry, but Greg never suggested diving while under the influence. There's always going to be differences of opinions as to how much of anything is considered by someone else to be "too much", and how long the effects might last. Here, we're assuming that there's no meaningful hangover (because of "not too" language) and that the only significant risk is that the alcohol the night prior may have a risk factor due to residual dehydration. But if we're looking for all possible risks, we should also be concerned about what he had for dinner too. If it was a nice juicy steak every night, then there's a cholesterol-based risk of heart attack. Whatever ones concerns are for someone who's wound a bit "too loose", we must also recognize that there's also the problems that are caused by those people who are "wound a bit too tight" that effectively disqualify them from diving safely because they're unduly paranoid of everything, since there's a tangible risk that a grouper looking at them funny will cause them to flip out. > How many people here would like to have you as their dive buddy on that > or any dive? Dive with Greg? I've not done it yet, but I know that I've had worse. I'd give it a shot. But this suggests that you consider yourself to be a better candidate. Why is that? Besides, in my view so far, I don't think so: you've only been certified a couple of years and based on this thread, it would seem that you would flip out if I were to dare have *one* beer before dinner, followed by *one* glass of wine with dinner, even though its an easy 12-15 hours before our planned dive the next day, which gives over a 10:1 safety margin for metabolizing off that ethanol. And heaven forbid if I actually then get in the water with a tiny bubble dribble leaking from the AL80 tank's o-ring! FWIW, given how common these are on rental tanks, one would think that by now, we would have seen 30 or 40 of them blow on a dive...but we haven't. Ever wondered why? > > I'm still not certain how his off-hour imbibing caused your gauge to bubble. > > Maybe I did miss the boat. > > Because a drunk is less likely to pay attention to details which may > affect his abilities to perform basic equipment maintenance functions > for example. But what defines "a drunk"? Is it someone who has a drinking problem and imbibes while he's repairing dive gear and hence, a valid concern here? - - - Or is it sufficient for your defintion that it is someone who drinks more than you do (always a slippery slope), even if it is after his day's responsibilities are over? FWIW, I've met people who are 1/day drinkers, but they've considered a big 250lb guy who quaffs 2/day to be a horrible "drunk". Obviously, logic and objectivity are not their long suit. -hh > Here, we're assuming that there's no meaningful hangover (because of "not > too" language) and that the only > significant risk is that the alcohol the night prior may have a risk > factor due to residual dehydration. Scotch and water, or on the rocks. There's water in ice. > Dive with Greg? I've not done it yet, but I know that I've had worse. > I'd give it a shot. Are you on the Memorial Day list? Lee Lee asked: > Are you on the Memorial Day list? Not yet. Have some other travel commitments to sort out; will probably know more in a few weeks. I am open on another date...ask Curtis offline. -hh >> Are you on the Memorial Day list? > Not yet. Have some other travel commitments to sort out; will probably > know more in a few weeks. I am open on another date...ask Curtis > offline. I talked to him earlier today, but didn't know to ask. I'll ask next time. Lee > Not "too drunk" eh? Whadda guy. Clearly your hubris about this will > one day cause you a serious problem. Maybe underwater, behind the > wheel, somewhere. What is the worst part of this kind of faux machismo > is that you'll probably end of hurting someone else in the process. I already have enough things to worry about not doing while intoxicated. I'm certainly not going to fret over doing anything hungover. The worst time was the morning after my mother's funeral, when I had to show up in court at 8 a.m. on a summary judgment motion obviously still very intoxicated. I won, of course, but it's fortunate my client wasn't there to smell my breath. On my last trip, I easily outdrank all the other divers (probably combined) every night, was the last one up to greet the night watch at midnight, and was the first one up in the morning so I'd have plenty of time to fiddle with my camera after breakfast. We only stayed as shallow as 60' on a couple of the dives, sometimes venturing double that depth down the wall. According to you, the only reason I'm still alive is that we didn't have a DM to check our bubbles for us. > How many people here would like to have you as their dive buddy on that > or any dive? I have 13, plus plenty more who couldn't be accommodated, for a 135' wreck dive in May. I've never had a problem finding someone to dive with me when my regular buddy wanted to sit out a dive. For me, the question gets turned around. Would I accept you as my buddy, knowing you'll be running out of air after a half-hour, helpless to diagnose your own equipment problems let alone potentially render help to me? Hell no. I'd rather go solo. It's no fun dealing with lousy buddy issues when one is hungover. > Because a drunk is less likely to pay attention to details which may > affect his abilities to perform basic equipment maintenance functions > for example. So you were drunk when you started the dive? That's something I've never done. If I've had more than 3-4, I'll call the dive. Still, even after 3-4, I would have noticed the bubbles from my gauge at the start of the dive and would have aborted right then if I thought it might be a problem. > I should have added that this guy had forgotten to ask me for payment > for the dives (I went up to him and gave him the travelers checks but > am wondering if I should have "forgotten" to pay him inasmuch as he > contributed to what could have been a major problem for me). He also > "forgot" to ask me to produce a C card which he had requested the day > before. He rendered service. You had promised to pay. Why should he have to ask you twice? Perhaps he made the mistake of thinking you a competent diver when he "forgot" to ask for your C card. > Pick up a book on liquor or other drugs and read up about the cognitive > and other performance decrements it can cause, even hours or days after > the fact. You remind me of the drinkers or pot heads that say things > like "I drive even better after I get buzzed because it relaxes me". > Or "because I know I'm buzzed I'm even MORE careful". Thanks, but in the course of getting my bachelor's in physiology, we even had a chance to test the effects of alcohol and other substances on a just-killed bullfrog leg connected to a voltmeter, and I've taken an upper-division psych class on drugs and addiction toward getting a minor in psychology. Combined with all the independent research I've done, as well as the voluminous first-hand studies and state-mandated classes, I can still state definitively that I drive even better after I get buzzed because it relaxes me. I guess I can only pray that one day I even slightly approach your marvelous accomplishments. Like I said before, "whadda guy". Not the slightest trace of overcompensation in your entire addled tirade. Greg, You may be a marvelous diver but you "come across" with the sopjhistication and the maturity of a college kid. And maybe that's exactly who you are. Or, maybe you're just one of those 30+ year old cases of arrested development "beach-bum-type-I-don't -want-a- job-in -the real-world-so-I'll -make a-few-bucks -teaching-scuba-to-pay-for-my-diving-traveling-and-drinking" types. I know people (myself included) with signifcantly more education and experience than you will probably ever have (in matters other than diving) who wouldn't have the need to post their relatively meager accomplishements on a forum like this or anyplace for that matter. Why even bother with stuff like "but in the course of getting my bachelor's in physiology, we even had a chance to test the effects of alcohol and other substances on a just-killed bullfrog leg connected to a voltmeter, and I've taken an upper-division psych class..........." Like I said "whadda guy" you must be. Must have a very small weenie also, Let me finish with this: My initial post was as an admittedly inexperienced diver (like you once were yourself-or were you born an expert? ) seeking advice and feedback. I really didn't anticipate this silly type of dialogue which you decided to make public as a thesis to your immaturity. If you are this alleged diving deity that you present yourself as, based on what I've read from you here, I wouldn't go near you as an instructor. So, Greg it's still early and you have all night to get more wasted. Cheers, Sy > You may be a marvelous diver but you "come across" with the > sopjhistication and the maturity of a college kid. And maybe that's > exactly who you are. Or, maybe you're just one of those 30+ year old > cases of arrested development "beach-bum-type-I-don't -want-a- job-in > -the real-world-so-I'll -make a-few-bucks > -teaching-scuba-to-pay-for-my-diving-traveling-and-drinking" types. The latter, I'd say. I definitely don't want a job in the real world. Unfortunately I compromise, since the make-a-few-bucks-teaching-scuba-to-pay-for-my-diving-traveling-and-drinking doesn't allow me to drink the good stuff. > I know people (myself included) with signifcantly more education and > experience than you will probably ever have (in matters other than > diving) who wouldn't have the need to post their relatively meager > accomplishements on a forum like this or anyplace for that matter. That's why I only post my relatively meager accomplishments here. The really good stuff I save for when I get to know someone better. Did you know I took Popeye down 6 tries out of 10? Try that sober sometime. Also, my thumbs are double-jointed enough so I can bend them back and touch my wrist. And I used to ride ponies at the Beverly Hills Pony Rides with Chastity Bono when I was 4 year old, back before she became a lesbian. That means I might have been the first, and perhaps the only, guy she ever had the hots for. Maybe she liked my thumbs. > Why even bother with stuff like "but in the course of getting my > bachelor's in physiology, we even had a chance to test the effects of > alcohol and other substances on a > just-killed bullfrog leg connected to a voltmeter, and I've taken an > upper-division psych class..........." Like I said "whadda guy" you > must be. Must have a very small weenie also, At least I have enough going for me that I don't need to talk about other guys' weenies. Would you like me to e-mail you a picture of it? > My initial post was as an admittedly inexperienced diver (like you once > were yourself-or were you born an expert? ) seeking advice and > feedback. I really didn't anticipate this silly type of dialogue which > you decided to make public as a thesis to your immaturity. If you are > this alleged diving deity that you present yourself as, based on what > I've read from you here, I wouldn't go near you as an instructor. Actually, I was born an expert. I achieved perfect buoyancy inside the womb, never overbreathed my umbilical cord, had a nice strong kick. Unfortunately the doc dropped me on my head after he pulled me out and I've be relearning ever since. If I were a diving deity, you wouldn't go near me as an instructor, you'd go near me as a diving deity, preferably with your head bowed while you shuffle your feet and mumble something humble. The first pic is free. The rest are gonna cost you. > So, Greg it's still early and you have all night to get more wasted. An hour less tonight because of daylight savings time. Ain't that a bitch? Ok Greg, You are funny and I do like your sense of humor. I plan to do more posting on these forums to learn about diving and emerge from my ignorance on the subject and would like to get useful feedback. Let's call it a truce, ok.? Later, Sy > Ok Greg, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Let's call it a truce, ok.? A truce implies a fight that no one can win. But if you waive a white flag, I'll promise not to shoot. Ok. It's a deal! > Ok. It's a deal! Good for you, sy. You're a quick learner. In case you haven't figured it out yet, rec.scuba is into tough love. But you can really learn a lot here. Keep asking questions and relating experiences. > A truce implies a fight that no one can win. No it doesn't. That's just the most common cause. >>Ok Greg, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >>Let's call it a truce, ok.? > A truce implies a fight that no one can win. But if you waive a white flag, > I'll promise not to shoot. Be gentle with him. He knows not what he is doing. "Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :And I used to ride ponies at the Beverly Hills Pony Rides with Chastity Bono :when I was 4 year old, back before she became a lesbian. That means I might :have been the first, and perhaps the only, guy she ever had the hots for. :Maybe she liked my thumbs. Maybe you inspired her to like women. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > "Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Maybe you inspired her to like women. It's probably a fine line between spoiling her for every other man and inspiring her to like women. >>You may be a marvelous diver but you "come across" with the >>sopjhistication and the maturity of a college kid. And maybe that's [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > The first pic is free. The rest are gonna cost you. >>So, Greg it's still early and you have all night to get more wasted. > An hour less tonight because of daylight savings time. Ain't that a bitch? Priceless Greg! Worth the re-posting! <snip> > At least I have enough going for me that I don't need to talk about other > guys' weenies. Would you like me to e-mail you a picture of it? I know you were not talking to me, but I'll decline. Just want to clarify. Dennis > I know people (myself included) with signifcantly more education and > experience than you will probably ever have (in matters other than > diving) who wouldn't have the need to post their relatively meager > accomplishements on a forum like this or anyplace for that matter. Haven't you put your foot in your mouth enough already? You haven't a clue who you're talking to, what his educational level is or anything else about him. You've shown your attitude and your lack of knowledge all at once. It's past time to give it a rest. > Let me finish with this: > My initial post was as an admittedly inexperienced diver . . . . That's all you needed to say. Lee Lee, Are you actually Greg using a different email identity? What's with all this hero worship? Who is it that I'm talking to? Please tell me. Seriously, Greg mixes a lot of humor into his commentary so as a newbie here it's hard to know exactly who it is I am talking to. Sy > Are you actually Greg using a different email identity? What's with > all this hero worship? Not hardly. It would be hard for two people to be more different. He's very liberal California attorney. I'm very conservative Florida Treasury official. He thinks guns should be outlawed. I keep buying more. He spends time keeping people out of jail, I spend time putting them in jail. Comparatively speaking, he started diving recently, but has done enough of it to do it well.. I've been diving for more than 40 years. Rumor has it, I do fairly well too. No hero worship, just two people who have known each other long enough and dove together often enough to respect one another . . . except, of course for his discusting liberal politics and anti gun opinions. > Who is it that I'm talking to? Please tell me. Seriously, Greg mixes > a lot of humor into his commentary so as a newbie here it's hard to > know exactly who it is I am talking to. You're beginning to catch on. You'll make more mistakes, but, sooner or later, you'll figure it out and will find your own place in this crazy place we call rec.scuba . . . or you'll get tired of trying an leave. If you're interested in diving, that would be a big mistake. Lee > Not hardly. It would be hard for two people to be more different. He's > very liberal California attorney. I'm very conservative Florida Treasury [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it to do it well.. I've been diving for more than 40 years. Rumor has > it, I do fairly well too. You missed the most important difference: I'd never be caught wearing Speedos in public. >> Not hardly. It would be hard for two people to be more different. He's >> very liberal California attorney. I'm very conservative Florida Treasury [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You missed the most important difference: I'd never be caught wearing > Speedos in public. One in the group is more than enough! "Greg Mossman" wrote >>> Not hardly. It would be hard for two people to be more different. He's >>> very liberal California attorney. I'm very conservative Florida [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> You missed the most important difference: I'd never be caught wearing >> Speedos in public. OK, so I'm not conservative in all things. Big deal. > You missed the most important difference: I'd never be caught wearing > Speedos in public. http://www.campbells.org/Humor/Billboards/image041.htm Lee, Are you actually Greg using a different email identity? What's with all this hero worship? Who is it that I'm talking to? Please tell me. Seriously, Greg mixes a lot of humor into his commentary so as a newbie here it's hard to know exactly who it is I am talking to. Sy Greg, You may be a marvelous diver but you "come across" with the sopjhistication and the maturity of a college kid. And maybe that's exactly who you are. Or, maybe you're just one of those 30+ year old cases of arrested development "beach-bum-type-I-don't -want-a- job-in -the real-world-so-I'll -make a-few-bucks -teaching-scuba-to-pay-for-my-diving-traveling-and-drinking" types. I know people (myself included) with signifcantly more education and experience than you will probably ever have (in matters other than diving) who wouldn't have the need to post their relatively meager accomplishements on a forum like this or anyplace for that matter. Why even bother with stuff like "but in the course of getting my bachelor's in physiology, we even had a chance to test the effects of alcohol and other substances on a just-killed bullfrog leg connected to a voltmeter, and I've taken an upper-division psych class..........." Like I said "whadda guy" you must be. Must have a very small weenie also, Let me finish with this: My initial post was as an admittedly inexperienced diver (like you once were yourself-or were you born an expert? ) seeking advice and feedback. I really didn't anticipate this silly type of dialogue which you decided to make public as a thesis to your immaturity. If you are this alleged diving deity that you present yourself as, based on what I've read from you here, I wouldn't go near you as an instructor. So, Greg it's still early and you have all night to get more wasted. Cheers, Sy > Greg, > > You may be a marvelous diver (snip a bunch of chip on shoulder stuff) Maybe he was just expecting you to quit taking yourself quite so seriously. Yes, I'll acknowledge that it is a bit scary when a new diver sees air bubbling out of his/her gear somewhere that it's not expected. Sometimes, depending on where the bubbles are coming from, it can be a bit scary for a well experienced diver too. I've seen the same thing as your situtation happen to other new divers and in those instances, the DM has tried to twist the console tighter. Last time, all that managed to do was make the problem worse. And as far as I know, after the end of the dive, that particular set of regs was retired from the rental pool until maintenance was complete. I suspect, in your case, there is some validity to your concern. It's my guess, that the reason the DM was not concerned about it, nor the shop owner, is because they already knew that the reg in question had the problem. And as you say, they'd already decided to overlook it deeming it just not that big a deal (yet). In any event, get your own gear. You'll enjoy the diving a lot more when you have your own gear that you know you've taken care of and are well-acquainted with it. As the years go by and you have many more dives under your belt, you'll know when bubbles coming from places they shouldn't, means head directly to the surface and when it means, finish the dive and deal with it later. Here's wishing you many wonderful dives in the future. Thanks for your very sensible and clearly articulated comments and suggestions. Greatly appreciated. > Thanks for your very sensible and clearly articulated comments and > suggestions. Greatly appreciated. Who are you talking to? In rec.scuba, "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> wrote in message news:ziKXf.213916$B94.50451@pd7tw3no... <crossposting-snipped> > Who are you talking to? Yet another newbie that doesn't know how to properly reply via Google Groups... > In rec.scuba, "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> wrote in message > news:ziKXf.213916$B94.50451@pd7tw3no... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yet another newbie that doesn't know how to properly reply via Google > Groups... Gru, do you also have insomnia? One thing I've learned over the hours I've logged as a diver is that just about all personal gear involving pressure ... I own, care for, bring in for regular check-ups and maintenance, and dive with. The gear that I own -- including my BC -- is from Dacor. While most people with similar dive time are buying ScubaPro and Zeagle et cetera, I'm happy with what I'm using now, so I'll stay with it. -- Robert You really need to learn how to quote the posts you are replying to, Robert. Even more so because it appears you are responding in threads long past. > One thing I've learned over the hours I've logged as a diver is that > just about all personal gear involving pressure ... I own, care for, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- Robert Right. Sorry about that. I'll go back and clean up the other posts to these newsgroups. -- Robert > You really need to learn how to quote the posts you are replying to, Robert. > Even more so because it appears you are responding in threads long past. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >>-- Robert Signature----------------------------------- Robert Bigelow, Library Associate LSU Libraries Education Resources 227 Middleton Library (225)578-2349 ----------------------------------- > > Not "too drunk" eh? Whadda guy. Clearly your hubris about this will > > one day cause you a serious problem. Maybe underwater, behind the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > 3-4, I would have noticed the bubbles from my gauge at the start of the dive > and would have aborted right then if I thought it might be a problem. > > I should have added that this guy had forgotten to ask me for payment > > for the dives (I went up to him and gave him the travelers checks but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > He rendered service. You had promised to pay. Why should he have to ask > you twice? > Perhaps he made the mistake of thinking you a competent diver when he > "forgot" to ask for your C card. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > state definitively that I drive even better after I get buzzed because it > relaxes me. SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com > [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see > the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > How many people here would like to have you as their dive buddy on that > or any dive? I would - likely not the 2 mile 300' cave penetration,mbecause I'm not trained for that. But for a 60' reef dive? No problem, even though he's a Democrat who wants to take away my guns in exchange for drugs. :) > > > My background is not that of a teetotaler but if you think that booze > > > or similar substances don't have an effect (even hours after imbibing) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > "forgot" to ask me to produce a C card which he had requested the day > before. And your excuse for forgetting to mention this is.... ;-) > Pick up a book on liquor or other drugs and read up about the cognitive > and other performance decrements it can cause, even hours or days after [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > DUH! Dennis (snip)> No problem, even though he's a Democrat who wants to take away my guns in > exchange for drugs. > :) Greg offered you drugs in exchange for your gun? > > contributed to what could have been a major problem for me). He also > > "forgot" to ask me to produce a C card which he had requested the day > > before. > > And your excuse for forgetting to mention this is.... > ;-) Geez, I never mention it either if they forget to ask me. > (snip)> No problem, even though he's a Democrat who wants to take away my > guns in > > exchange for drugs. > > :) > > Greg offered you drugs in exchange for your gun? He'd take away my guns, and legalize drugs. Despite that, like Popeye, he'd be welcome at my place. > > > contributed to what could have been a major problem for me). He also > > > "forgot" to ask me to produce a C card which he had requested the day [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Geez, I never mention it either if they forget to ask me. Wasnt part of the orginal narrative, IIRC. Just picking :-) Dennis > How many people here would like to have you as their dive buddy on that > or any dive? Greg's and my last bar tab, for about 3.5 hours of drinking, was $350. I can't wait to dive with him. Personally, I've never been diving on more than a few drinks. Not to put to fine a point on it, but, you make yourself out to be somewhat incapable while perfectly sober. Yes I got advice...learn how to dive >I recently dove in Northern Guanacaste Province, Costa Rica. I tried >several dive shops (Aquacenter in Flamingo Beach was the most [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Sy > Can anyone give me feedback on this besides the obvious advice to stay > away from alcoholic diver types? http://www.geocities.com/grumman581/welcome-rec-scuba.htm That's precious! In rec.scuba, <sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1144012175.045559.96750@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > That's precious! Still haven't figured out how to reply from Google Groups yet, huh? HINT: To the right of the "Date" field in the message header is a hyperlink of "show options"... Click on it... New header fields of "Email" and "Groups" will appear... Below these are a couple more hyperlinks... The first one is "Reply"... Click on it... It will bring up a new page with the message that you're replying to... Edit this message, snipping out the portions of the message that are not appropriate... It's considered poor style to quote the entire previous message... Do not top post, that's also considered poor style... If there are multiple points in the original post that you need to address, intersperse your replies with the sections of the original message... Leaving a blank line between the original text and your reply in each section improves readability... Crossposting is also considered poor style, so try to remember to snip the other groups... > That's precious! How about quoting enough of the previous message so that we know what you're talking about? Lee In rec.scuba, "Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:mHZXf.10120$68.1413@bignews7.bellsouth.net... > How about quoting enough of the previous message so that we know what you're > talking about? That would assume that *he* knows what he's talking about, wouldn't it? Ok. The previous message supplied this URL: http://www.geocities.com/grumman581/welcome-rec-scuba.htm I didn't want to gratuitously use foul language here so go read it yourself. > That's precious! Somebody post Hugh's list- I don't know if John Francis's is still up. Signature"The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storms terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore." - Vincent van Gogh www.finalprotectivefire.com That's precious! > Can anyone give me feedback on this besides the obvious advice to stay > away from alcoholic diver types? First, here is some information that might have made you a bit less uncomfortable with the situation. It is copied from another forum, and the author is Curt Bowen From Advanced Diver Magazine: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a little test I did at Eagles Nest cave on Feb 12th for a small article to be placed in issue 17 of Advanced Diver Magazine. The question I wanted to answer was: How much time would it take to empty a full aluminum 80 cuft cylinder from 3000 psi to 0 for the following situations and would depth affect the times. 1. Failed Burst Disk 2. Failed HP Hose 3. Failed LP Hose 4. Free Flow high performance regulator 2nd stage. I completed the test on the surface (0 feet) with 4 aluminum 80s and a Zeagle D50 regulator. Here are the results 1. Failed Burst Disk = 72 seconds 2. Failed HP Hose = 22 minutes 3. Failed LP Hose = 83 seconds 4. Free Flow High Performance Regulator = 255 seconds I then repeated the test at 4 atms / 99ft 1. Failed Burst Disk = Same within a second or 2 2. Failed HP Hose = Same within a minute 3. Failed LP Hose = Same within a second or 2 4. Free Flow High Performance Regulator = 155 seconds I then repeated the test at 8 atms / 231ft 1. Failed Burst Disk = Same within a second or 2 2. Failed HP Hose = did not complete due to time restraints but would assume it would be with a minute difference 3. Failed LP Hose = Same within a second or 2 4. Free Flow High Performance Regulator = 91 seconds --------------------------------------------------------- If you are uncomfortable with a boat captain, crew, boat, other divers, weather, or anything else, you have the option to thumb the dive on the dock. I've done this after driving 300 miles for a dive, and have thumbed several second days of diving on boats after the first day. As a friend/boat captain in SC says, "If you have to think about, you already know the answer". You don't have to make a big issue of it, just bow out and move on. It's about knowing, assessing and accepting risk. What is perfectly reasonable and acceptable to me may be unacceptable to someone who has children to take care of or just a different idea of what is acceptable. Learn to identify and assess the risks, and then decide for yourself what to do. > First, here is some information that might have made you a bit less > uncomfortable with the situation. It is copied from another forum, and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > 3. Failed LP Hose > 4. Free Flow high performance regulator 2nd stage. Empirical tests. Gotta love 'em. > I completed the test on the surface (0 feet) with 4 aluminum 80's and a > Zeagle D50 regulator. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I then repeated the test at 8 atm's / 231ft... > 3. Failed LP Hose = Same within a second or 2 Interesting in that these are all roughly 1.5 minutes, yet a 1999 test performed by Undercurrent...still on the web at: http://www.undercurrent.org/UCnow/articles/SpareAir9902.shtml ..reported a time of "almost 2 minutes" for what should be a slightly faster dump, namely a a wide-open valve with no regulator attached. At very roughly a ~20% divergence, seems a bit too wide for routine variance. Okay, there's test measurement error to consider...how fast you're able to crank the open the valve, what the "start" time is considered to be, etc. There's also a possibility that K-valves have improved in the past half decade to increase their total flow potential, or that there's a minor difference in K-valve manufacturers. All in all, it would provide some useful insight to have a slightly better sample size of "1". -hh > I recently dove in Northern Guanacaste Province, Costa Rica. I tried > several dive shops (Aquacenter in Flamingo Beach was the most [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Can anyone give me feedback on this besides the obvious advice to stay > away from alcoholic diver types? Boy, did you pick the wrong place to ask that. Dave. > Can anyone give me feedback on this besides the obvious advice to stay > away from alcoholic diver types? I'm an alcoholic diver type, and the best gear tech here that I know of, except perhaps Scott Koplin. The problem is, you let the scumbag DM make too many decisions you were responsible for. Educate yourself. Take a gear repair course, and dive boats where the DM doesn't get in the water. The crutch only broke because you were leaning on it too hard. >>Can anyone give me feedback on this besides the obvious advice to stay >>away from alcoholic diver types? > > I'm an alcoholic diver type, and the best gear tech here that I know of, > except perhaps Scott Koplin. Can't comment on that. > The problem is, you let the scumbag DM make too many decisions you were > responsible for. Yup > Educate yourself. Yup > Take a gear repair course, and dive boats where the DM doesn't get in the > water. Yup > The crutch only broke because you were leaning on it too hard. Yup One reason I don't drink before diving is that for most of my favorite diving locations the sun can be blazing overhead on a clear day, and I don't want to get dehydrated out there. Another is that diving is the closest I've ever been to flying without a motor and I don't want to do anything to miss out on every bit of that sensation I've enjoyed since my very first dive. I'm one of those quiet little guys who sits in the back of the boat and keeps to mostly himself. The only thing I want the DM to know about me is that I'm one little guy you won't have to worry about. -- Robert |
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