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Scuba Forum / General / March 2006Diving equipment - 10 years from now
Anyone care to speculate on what equipment will be available for sports divers 10 years from now? Rebreathers for everybody - or is that still far in the future? Full face masks so that people can communicate by voice? Any other high tech stuff on the horizon? > Anyone care to speculate on what equipment will be available for sports > divers 10 years from now? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Any other high tech stuff on the horizon? Shoulda been titled "Ten Years Ago". > Anyone care to speculate on what equipment will be available for sports > divers 10 years from now? > > Rebreathers for everybody - or is that still far in the future? Available now. Just buy one. > Full face masks so that people can communicate by voice? All you need is a two hose reg, or a rebreather, and be close to your partner. > Any other high tech stuff on the horizon? Teakettles with LCD-screen, to make it easier to the DMs. Matthias I see I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again. > Rebreathers for everybody - or is that still far in the future? Available now. Just buy one. ----------AFFORDABLE rebreathers for everyone. Regular scuba phased out? > Full face masks so that people can communicate by voice? All you need is a two hose reg, or a rebreather, and be close to your partner. ------------AFFORDABLE full face masks so that people can communicate by voice without being close to your partner? > Any other high tech stuff on the horizon? Teakettles with LCD-screen, to make it easier to the DMs. Besides this? >I see I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again. > >> Rebreathers for everybody - or is that still far in the future? > > Available now. Just buy one. > ----------AFFORDABLE rebreathers for everyone. Regular scuba phased > out? That would assume such a distinct advantage over rebreathers. It doesn't exist now. Your question is a little Jules Verne like. At this point in their development, rebreathers are getting a little lethal. Maybe when you get to the James Bond thing-in-the-mouth point, it would be cool. >> Full face masks so that people can communicate by voice? > All you need is a two hose reg, or a rebreather, and be close to your > partner. > ------------AFFORDABLE full face masks so that people can communicate > by voice without being close to your partner? Nah, many of us dive to shut other up. The last thing we want is the chatter. >> Any other high tech stuff on the horizon? > > Teakettles with LCD-screen, to make it easier to the DMs. > > Besides this? Wrist mounted device that monitors actual fizz level with magnetic resonance or some sh.t through the wrist. > Wrist mounted device that monitors actual fizz level with magnetic >resonance or some sh.t through the wrist. Frank Herbert - 'vampire gauge' anyone? Mike -- http://www.corestore.org 'As I walk along these shores I am the history within' >> Wrist mounted device that monitors actual fizz level with magnetic >>resonance or some sh.t through the wrist. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 'As I walk along these shores > I am the history within' Diving with a computer or tables is a bit like traveling by dead reckoning. If your timepiece and compass are accurate, you'll end up pretty close to where you want to be, but you will never end up as close as if you can measure your position continuously. I hope such a guage is possible and can be manufactured inexpensively. It would be a huge boon to diving safety. > I see I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Besides this? The point of the other responders is this: scuba gear has changed very little over the past 20 years, with the exception of the digital dive computer, and will change very little over the coming 10 years, for the simple reason that a stasis has been reached between practicality and cost. This is not the first time this has happened in diving history: surface supply standard dress diving developed very rapidly from the 1830s to the 1850s, then remained virtually unchanged (except for replacement of man-powered pumps with engine-powered pumps) for 90 years. Practical rebreathers have been around for 150 years, have always been complicated, finicky, and expensive. There is nothing on the horizon that will change that. Full face masks for scuba have been around for about 65 years, have not changed at all, and remain expensive to manufacture in the low volumes that the market will absorb. They are just too cumbersome to be popular, and nothing will change that. Other high tech??????? What do you want? Most of the market is very happy with low tech/low cost/low maintenance/low problem gear. m mike gray a écrit : > Other high tech??????? What do you want? Most of the market is > very happy with low tech/low cost/low maintenance/low problem gear. What about a wetsuit that does not stink after you pee? Cheers, Froggy > What about a wetsuit that does not stink after you pee? How about a self warming suit that runs off human waste. Lee >>What about a wetsuit that does not stink after you pee? > > How about a self warming suit that runs off human waste. > > Lee Brilliant! > > What about a wetsuit that does not stink after you pee? > > How about a self warming suit that runs off human waste. Exactly. That's called "peeing in your suit". But version 1.0 still has that odor problem that needs to be fixed. > > What about a wetsuit that does not stink after you pee? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But version 1.0 still has that odor problem that needs to be fixed. Ummm, I didn't limit "human waste" to pee. Lee >> > What about a wetsuit that does not stink after you pee? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >But version 1.0 still has that odor problem that needs to be fixed. We need a hydro-turbine powered mini heat exchanger system. JF How about some kind of glass that slows the speed of light down so it takes about 90mins for the light to pass through it. Leave the glass out in sunlight, take it down on you with a dive. A sort of sunlight battery. It featured in a Sci-Fi story I read many years ago. IIFC the gist of the story was that streetlights could keep the place illuminated by light passing through the glass one way AND serve as CCTV cameras by the light going through the other. > How about some kind of glass that slows the speed of light down so it > takes about 90mins for the light to pass through it. Leave the glass [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > illuminated by light passing through the glass one way AND serve as > CCTV cameras by the light going through the other. Not all that different from what a solar battery does. My mailbox is a working lighthouse. It has a Malibu solar light that stores energy during the day and gives light back all night. Lee > The point of the other responders is this: scuba gear has > changed very little over the past 20 years, with the exception > of the digital dive computer, and will change very little over > the coming 10 years, for the simple reason that a stasis has > been reached between practicality and cost. Agreed. When we look at today's non-diving consumer marketplace, the change continues to be in electronics. As such, if we ask yourself "how could electronics change diving today?", the list of reasonable innovations would appear to me to be fairly short. One example would be to repackage the digital dive computer to make it into a Heads-Up Display (HUD) on a dive mask. But its not as if this hasn't aleady been thought of: Cochran Consulting announced just such a product "coming soon" ... way back in 1995. Since a HUD prototype was spotted at DEMA one year, the reality is that the consumer marketplace did not think that the product was worth the asking price. YMMV as to why it failed in the marketplace, but it could have partly been because dive masks are very much *not* a "one size fits all" type of product, and this HUD wasn't designed to fit onto "any" mask. > Other high tech??????? What do you want? Most of the market is > very happy with low tech/low cost/low maintenance/low problem gear. Yup -- that's where the consumer sees value worth paying for. Personally, I do think that some new gadgets could appear in the next decade, but probably an unexpected place for the OP, and that would be on the diveboat instead of the diver. One example could be an above/under-water camera system on the bridge that allows the captain a view of who's near his props - - to help in diver pickup, especially the part about not running them over. I'm sure that someone will get a similar idea of taking the same type of UW camera and coupled with sonar, to use it to image the dive site...the idea being to help the diveboat captain find a particular site faster/easier (but is it really all that hard today?)....and/or replace the dive staff's whiteboard & dry-erase markers with a fancy LCD display. While it certainly would be neat for divers to be able to see the divesite before they jump in, from a business perspective, is that feature worth spending $2000 for a more fancy whiteboard? Nope. -hh Mike and Hugh agree that a stasis between practicality and cost has been reached. Hell, guys, I felt sure you both were more imaginative than that. Here's a few ideas that might be worth the cost: 1. A computer that really does continuous real time sampling of the gas, the environment and the body, perhaps reading gas and other issues directly. 2. Something that would prevent gas from entering body tissues in concentrations above surface saturated or remove them at a rate sufficient to prevent narcosis, decompression sickness and oxygen toxicity risks. 3. A system for getting the gas you need to live from the water that actually works . . . in fresh and salt water. 4. An electronic force field capable of providing gas, resisting pressure and protecting from biting and stinging creatures of all types. While we're at it, we might as well make it radiation, bomb, bullet and everything else proof. Imagine what a power you could be if nobody could harm you. I could think of things worth paying for all day but, alas, I have some more work to do. Lee > Mike and Hugh agree that a stasis between practicality and cost has been > reached. > > Hell, guys, I felt sure you both were more imaginative than that. FWIW, I don't think its for a lack of imagination ... its a question of the cost:benefit of the innovation, and if the market is willing to bear the price. For example, rebreathers don't cut it - - - at their current price point. As such, one way to ask the question is what price point will a RB become viably competitive ... let's say that that's $500. Part 2 of the question is if RB's will get down to $500 within the next ten years. YMMV, but IMO, probably not. > Here's a few ideas that might be worth the cost: > 1. A computer that really does continuous real time sampling of the gas, the > environment and the body, perhaps reading gas and other issues directly. Sure. But from a marketplace adoption perspective, how much more would that cost, for how much gain in bottom time? IMO, it has the same basic challenge as the rebreather: it might double your bottom time, but not cheaply, so therefore it won't significantly transform the marketplace. > 2. Something that would prevent gas from entering body tissues in > concentrations above surface saturated or remove them at a rate sufficient > to prevent narcosis, decompression sickness and oxygen toxicity risks. Assume that someone makes the necessary bioengineering nanotech (etc) breakthrough in a laboratory this week. The realities are that it will take it at least a decade to get through the FDA-type approvals to bring it to market. At present, its not easy to get human use protocols for experimentation for "important" (life saving) stuff, so for something that would be seen as primarily a recreational application, its going to take much longer ... even if there's a technology push by the military. > 3. A system for getting the gas you need to live from the water that > actually works . . . in fresh and salt water. As I think I mentioned when the Israel "gill" device was just recently discussed that I recalled that "Popular Science" magazine had a cover story about a working US Navy prototype back in the 1960's. Its not that its not a 'good idea', or that no one has throught to work on it for the past 40 years: it is that there were fundimental technology challenges that drove the cost up to make it not a practical solution versus the alternatives. For a gill, one of the issues is power & energy storage. A battery is simplistically a power energy storage device, where the potential energy is stored chemically. While batteries have improved pretty significantly in the past decade (cost-effective rechargables in particular), they've not improved by a full order of magnitude from the power density of the century-old lead-acid battery, so when our device needs another order of magnitude of power storage improvement from today's Li-Ion tech to be advantageous enough runtimes to be marketplace-practical, the realm of theoretical battery chemistry says that there aren't any solutions possible amongst all known elements, so this dog won't hunt. For the past half decade (ie, since 2000) we have had battery tech with better power:weight ratio's than Li-Ion, but the question then becomes how would we make that technology work underwater, since by definition, the Zinc-Air battery is an "air breather". Ditto for the consideration of fuel cell technology too. > 4. An electronic force field capable of providing gas, resisting pressure > and protecting from biting and stinging creatures of all types. While we're > at it, we might as well make it radiation, bomb, bullet and everything else > proof. Imagine what a power you could be if nobody could harm you. I'll settle for just the patent on the compact power supply that could run that force field, since its the building block needed for flying cars, anti-gravity devices and world peace. -hh "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message <snip> > I'll settle for just the patent on the compact power supply that could > run that force field, since its the building block needed for flying > cars, anti-gravity devices and world peace. Imagine... whirled peas... How about a pill that allows you to metabolize nitrogen as fast as you can absorb it? (since we're dreamin' here) > How about a pill that allows you to metabolize nitrogen as fast as you > can absorb it? Or a sybiote that uses nitrogen the way we use oxygen, a plant perhaps? Lee > > How about a pill that allows you to metabolize nitrogen as fast as you > > can absorb it? > > Or a sybiote that uses nitrogen the way we use oxygen, a plant perhaps? Is that supposed to be a symbiote or a sybian? (hint, If you don't know what a sybian is, don't look it up at work) > Lee > > > How about a pill that allows you to metabolize nitrogen as fast as you > > > can absorb it? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Is that supposed to be a symbiote or a sybian? (hint, If you don't know what > a sybian is, don't look it up at work) Depends on what you do for a living. For some, it might be required equipment ;-) > ? "Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > ? news:TbaJf.17926$Ly6.16648@bignews5.bellsouth.net... > ? > "GWB" <gwb3483@eatel.net> wrote in message > ? > news:p2o9v1pt37pade33fk272765tju59g2dah@4ax.com... > ? > > How about a pill that allows you to metabolize nitrogen as fast as you > ? > > can absorb it? > ? > > ? > Or a sybiote that uses nitrogen the way we use oxygen, a plant perhaps? > ? > ? Is that supposed to be a symbiote or a sybian? (hint, If you don't know what > ? a sybian is, don't look it up at work) > ? > > Depends on what you do for a living. For some, it might be required > equipment ;-) Know anyone hiring for one of those jobs? :-) >> Or a sybiote that uses nitrogen the way we use oxygen, a plant perhaps? > > Is that supposed to be a symbiote or a sybian? (hint, If you don't know > what > a sybian is, don't look it up at work) It's supposed to be a symbiote. I know what a sybian is. Lee >It's supposed to be a symbiote. I know what a sybian is. > >Lee A devotee of the Symbianese Liberation Army? > I know what a sybian is. Something to do with monkeys? JF >> I know what a sybian is. > > Something to do with monkeys? > > JF In a way, yes. Lee >>> I know what a sybian is. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Lee Or whatever the girls call spanking one.  Signaturedillon Could have been is in the past Could be is in the future There is only the now > > I know what a sybian is. > > Something to do with monkeys? > > JF ummm... yeah... that's it. > >> Or a sybiote that uses nitrogen the way we use oxygen, a plant perhaps? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Lee The hint wasn't aimed specifically at you. I was just throwing the warning out there for anyone who migh tbe reading the thread. >> It's supposed to be a symbiote. I know what a sybian is. > The hint wasn't aimed specifically at you. I was just throwing the > warning > out there for anyone who migh tbe reading the thread. So? Perhaps my somewhat cryptic response will trigger research by those who might, otherwise, never know and who, upon finding out, might wish they hadn't. Lee > >> It's supposed to be a symbiote. I know what a sybian is. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Lee Or maybe they'll wish they had earlier... With this group it can be hard to tell sometimes. :-) > How about a pill that allows you to metabolize nitrogen as fast as you > can absorb it? > > (since we're dreamin' here) All you people always trying to fix your problems with pills. :-) > FWIW, I don't think its for a lack of imagination ... OK, it's not lack of imagination, it's lack of optimism. If you want progress, ya gotta dream. > For a gill, one of the issues is power & energy storage. A battery is > simplistically a power energy storage device, where the potential [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that there aren't any solutions possible amongst all known elements, so > this dog won't hunt. So a battery is not the breakthrough that will make it happen. Maybe what will is a new power generation process, something that uses the chemical composition of water or the temperature difference between my body and the water, or, well, or anything. The cool thing about breakthroughs is that you can't predict what form they'll take. >> 4. An electronic force field capable of providing gas, resisting pressure >> and protecting from biting and stinging creatures of all types. While >> we're >> at it, we might as well make it radiation, bomb, bullet and everything >> else >> proof. Imagine what a power you could be if nobody could harm you. > I'll settle for just the patent on the compact power supply that could > run that force field, since its the building block needed for flying > cars, anti-gravity devices and world peace. Use the force, Hugh, use the force. Not enough dreamers in this group. It's a shame. Lee > > FWIW, I don't think its for a lack of imagination ... > > OK, it's not lack of imagination, it's lack of optimism. If you want > progress, ya gotta dream. Actually, I see it as recognizing what the OP's question was, particularly their clarification: "----------AFFORDABLE rebreathers for everyone. Regular scuba phased out?". Interpretationally, that's not really a "realm of the possible" imagination type of question, but more a request for prognostication of what we think that the marketplace will really look like. > > I'll settle for just the patent on the compact power supply that could > > run that force field, since its the building block needed for flying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Not enough dreamers in this group. It's a shame. Oh, you want "realm of the possible"? Given the likely forthcoming wordwide fossil fuel resource war: Wind powered diveboats. Solar powered dive compressors. Ground effects heavy lift aircraft that burn significantly less jet fuel to get us to those tropic island vacation spots. In colder climates, wind & wave energy powered compressors and electric diveboat recharging stations. A diver heating system based on low level uranium waste maxtrixed with phase changing salt that replaces the lead on our weightbelts. Agency C-Card on a subcutaneously implanted RFID chip...along with your credit card. Seriously, this one could be here within a year. Neural-based Virtual Reality dive training. Jack in to get your OW, AOW, Rescue and DM in a few hours, complete with muscle memory routines for the skills...be an expert the first time you get wet. Nitrox blends that are generated on the fly within the regulator, based on an internally integrated osmosis filter system, thereby allowing the supply to be cheap, plain air to be used (and all of the currently existing infrastructure). 2nd Generation design also allows for the PPO2 to be automatically varied (tailored) with depth, thereby improving its optimization. Nitrogen Narcosis neural blocker drugs, delivered via "Patch", which is depth sensitive/activated. 2nd Generation has FDA approved anti-seasickness med's built in, and maybe a pinch of Sudafed too :-) Follow-on Generations could incorporate a doppler system to listen for subclinical (silent) bubbles & changes color to warn the diver of DCS...transpond the data to the dive computer to have it change the safety/deco stops and/or PPO2 while still on the dive to prevent from getting bent at all...release blood chemistry agents that temporarily increase the nitrogen solubility to allow safe offgassing. Real-time laser based underwater data uplink systems, so that you can send live video of you out enjoying a real dive back to your pals sitting at home who can be plugged in via Virtual Reality (VR) tanks. -hh >> > FWIW, I don't think its for a lack of imagination ... >> OK, it's not lack of imagination, it's lack of optimism. If you want >> progress, ya gotta dream. > Actually, I see it as recognizing what the OP's question was, > particularly their clarification: "----------AFFORDABLE rebreathers > for everyone. Regular scuba phased out?". Mundane thinking. You need another trip to Florida to get you back on track. > Wind powered diveboats. Blackbeards. > Solar powered dive compressors. How about water driven? > Ground effects heavy lift aircraft that burn significantly less jet fuel > to > get us to those tropic island vacation spots. Would be a rush if they have windows. They would not make captains of ships at sea feel particularly calm. > In colder climates, wind & wave energy powered compressors and electric > diveboat recharging stations. Could work someplace like the Great Barrier Reef, where they already have anchored platforms. Could work on oil rigs too. > A diver heating system based on low level uranium waste maxtrixed with > phase changing salt that replaces > the lead on our weightbelts. The science goes beyond me. Would I glow in the dark after a few years of diving? Would that make night dives more dangerous because I look like the bait the long line fishermen hand lights on? > Agency C-Card on a subcutaneously implanted RFID chip...along with your > credit card. Seriously, this one could be here within a year. It only requires the infrastructure to be implemented. This one may very well be cost effective. Identity theft is a very big, very expensive problem. 41% of the crimes reported by financial institutions in 2004 involved some aspect of identity theft. Total at risk was more than $ 6 billion in my district alone. We have 4 districts. Preliminary research indicates that the problem is worse in 2005. > Neural-based Virtual Reality dive training. Jack in to get your OW, > AOW, Rescue and DM in a few hours, complete with muscle memory routines > for the skills...be an expert the first time you get wet. I'd pay for plug in weight control excercise first. Getting there was much of the fun in diving. Exercising, to me, isn't any fun at all. > Nitrox blends that are generated on the fly within the regulator, based > on an internally integrated osmosis filter system, thereby allowing the > supply to be cheap, plain air to be used (and all of the currently > existing infrastructure). 2nd Generation design also allows for the > PPO2 to be automatically varied (tailored) with depth, thereby > improving its optimization. Not if the DIR boys have anything to say about it. Computerized breathing systems, indeed. Stroke territory for sure. One combination of mixes for all dives. No computers. No other way. > Nitrogen Narcosis neural blocker drugs, delivered via "Patch", which is > depth sensitive/activated. 2nd Generation has FDA approved > anti-seasickness med's built in, and maybe a pinch of Sudafed too :-) First generation should do away with FDA in favor of something that actually achieves their goals. > Follow-on Generations could incorporate a doppler system to listen for > subclinical (silent) bubbles & changes color to warn the diver of > DCS...transpond the data to the dive computer to have it change the > safety/deco stops and/or PPO2 while still on the dive to prevent from > getting bent at all...release blood chemistry agents that temporarily > increase the nitrogen solubility to allow safe offgassing. Now you're talking. > Real-time laser based underwater data uplink systems, so that you can > send live video of you out enjoying a real dive back to your pals > sitting at home who can be plugged in via Virtual Reality (VR) tanks. Screw them. They want to enjoy the dive, let them get up off their butts, unplug themselves from their plug in weight control/gameboy systems and learn to dive themselves. Underwater communications for recreational diving, are not something I necessarily think of as positive. I prefer my cell phone not follow me quite everyplace. Lee > >> > FWIW, I don't think its for a lack of imagination ... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mundane thinking. Actually, its reading comprehension :-) > You need another trip to Florida to get you back on track. Will have to see. Africa's definitely going to happen this year, and that's going to suck a lot of resources. How about the Brac in the fall? Interested in going back to BRBR? > > Wind powered diveboats. > > Blackbeards. Caught me :-) > > Solar powered dive compressors. > > How about water driven? Listed further below for colder climates. > > Ground effects heavy lift aircraft that burn significantly less jet fuel > > to get us to those tropic island vacation spots. > > Would be a rush if they have windows. They would not make captains of ships > at sea feel particularly calm. They'll have their own "sea lanes". IIRC, the old Soviet design had a very high wing camber, so you very well could have front-facing windows along the wing's leading edge. > > A diver heating system based on low level uranium waste maxtrixed with > > phase changing salt that replaces [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > diving? Would that make night dives more dangerous because I look like the > bait the long line fishermen hand lights on? Oh, you wanted this stuff to be *safe* too? > > Agency C-Card on a subcutaneously implanted RFID chip...along with your > > credit card. Seriously, this one could be here within a year. > > It only requires the infrastructure to be implemented. The same marketplace barrier that faced 'Smart Cards' 5+ years ago, which had also been advertised as the solution. And while technically they work (digital signatures on email, etc), their I/O speed is horribly slow...figure 20 seconds minimum to handshake and validate. > This one may very well be cost effective. It will be for certain things, like inventory management (think FedEx), but I suspect that since they're little more than a simple physical transponder, its only a matter of time until they can be cheaply cloned. > Identity theft is a very big, very expensive problem. 41% of the crimes > reported by financial institutions in 2004 involved some aspect of identity > theft. Total at risk was more than $ 6 billion in my district alone... The underlying problem here is that Banks are able to pass along their losses to their consumers, so we can make the marketplace respond to eliminate the problem on their own simply by changing their business model. Pass new banking regulations say that identified fraud cannot be deducted as a business loss and that credit card interest rates cannot exceed 2*Prime and this will lite a white-hot fire under them to stomp it out. Yes, there will be credit 'shockwaves' created by implimenting such a strategy, but it would work because the Banks never want to have to risk their own money. > > Neural-based Virtual Reality dive training. Jack in to get your OW, > > AOW, Rescue and DM in a few hours, complete with muscle memory routines > > for the skills...be an expert the first time you get wet. > > I'd pay for plug in weight control excercise first. That, and smoking cessation is precisely why DIR will reverse their anti-computers policies :-) > > Nitrox blends that are generated on the fly within the regulator, based > > on an internally integrated osmosis filter system, thereby allowing the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not if the DIR boys have anything to say about it... They'll be hypocrites if they do, since they already accept Nitrox: this is merely a "nanotech" miniaturization of the Nitrox system on the diveshop compressor to put it on the diver. They may be uncomfortable with allowing it to adjust in real time to the optimum blend for the depth, but this is also already being done in diveshops now (making different blends) and on dives in real time in rebreathers. This lets you carry just one tank and always have the best mix for the dive. > > Real-time laser based underwater data uplink systems, so that you can > > send live video of you out enjoying a real dive back to your pals [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Underwater communications for recreational diving, are not something I > necessarily think of as positive. Agreed - that's why its uplink only :-) -hh >> >> > FWIW, I don't think its for a lack of imagination ... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Actually, its reading comprehension :-) Mundane reading comprehension. >> You need another trip to Florida to get you back on track. > Will have to see. Africa's definitely going to happen this year, and > that's going to suck a lot of resources. How about the Brac in the > fall? Interested in going back to BRBR? Yes, but the boss has something to say about that. >> > Wind powered diveboats. >> >> Blackbeards. > > Caught me :-) >> > Ground effects heavy lift aircraft that burn significantly less jet >> > fuel [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> ships >> at sea feel particularly calm. > They'll have their own "sea lanes". IIRC, the old Soviet design had a > very high wing camber, so you very well could have front-facing windows > along the wing's leading edge. How're you going to keep the drug runners out of them? >> > A diver heating system based on low level uranium waste maxtrixed with >> > phase changing salt that replaces [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Oh, you wanted this stuff to be *safe* too? Nah, just want to understand the risks. > It will be for certain things, like inventory management (think FedEx), > but I suspect that since they're little more than a simple physical > transponder, its only a matter of time until they can be cheaply > cloned. Something very similar is already being used to identify pets. If it's cheap enough to put in your dog, it's probably cheap enough to put in everyone . . . at least everyone that's not concerned that big brother will know where they are at all times. > The underlying problem here is that Banks are able to pass along their > losses to their consumers, so we can make the marketplace respond to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > implimenting such a strategy, but it would work because the Banks never > want to have to risk their own money. The real problem is that banks market customer convenience and customer convenience does not include face to fact transactions. Cards, electronic funds transfers, stored value cards, ATMs, even checks, all break the traditional relationship between a bank and their customers. I haven't seen two out of three of my banks in 20 years. How the hell are they supposed to know whether it's real or Memorex? It doesn't help that anybody that has identifying information is part of the risk that the information will get out. That includes venders, data processors (recently lose millions of customer records that were being transported UNENCRYPTED. Real bad idea. It even includes the customers themselves. Real tough nut to crack, particularly when there's a 30 to 60 day delay between the crime and its discovery. >> > Neural-based Virtual Reality dive training. Jack in to get your OW, >> > AOW, Rescue and DM in a few hours, complete with muscle memory routines >> > for the skills...be an expert the first time you get wet. >> >> I'd pay for plug in weight control excercise first. > That, and smoking cessation is precisely why DIR will reverse their > anti-computers policies :-) >> > Nitrox blends that are generated on the fly within the regulator, based >> > on an internally integrated osmosis filter system, thereby allowing the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> Not if the DIR boys have anything to say about it... > They'll be hypocrites if they do, since they already accept Nitrox: > this is merely a "nanotech" miniaturization of the Nitrox system on the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > different blends) and on dives in real time in rebreathers. This lets > you carry just one tank and always have the best mix for the dive. >> > Real-time laser based underwater data uplink systems, so that you can >> > send live video of you out enjoying a real dive back to your pals >> > sitting at home who can be plugged in via Virtual Reality (VR) tanks. >> Screw them. They want to enjoy the dive, let them get up off their >> butts, >> unplug themselves from their plug in weight control/gameboy systems and >> learn to dive themselves. >> Underwater communications for recreational diving, are not something I >> necessarily think of as positive. > > Agreed - that's why its uplink only :-) Oh. Nevermind. Lee > Agency C-Card on a subcutaneously implanted RFID chip...along with your > credit card. Seriously, this one could be here within a year. If something has been implanted, it will be ideally placed to sample the oxygen/nitrogen/bubble levels in the blood. I'll hold out for a widget that monitors this and uses a radio link to the dive computer. This will be larger than the standard RFID chip but there is plenty of room inside most divers bodies. Mine anyway :o( * Affordable, safe, *idiot-proof* rebreathers? As idiot-proof as current open circuit kit anyway. * An ultrasonic version of GPS to cover individual dive sites? Combine it with dead-reckoning for when you drop into a shadow. (A 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis gyro, and 3-axis magnetometer can be fitted into a box about the size of a stamp and less than a centimetre thick. Can't remember the manufacturer but I've played with them at work. Not cheap of course, and would need to be more precise, but it shows promise.) * A waterproof PlayStation Portable for deco stops? Play games, watch movies, listen to music, etc. * Advance in boat equipment might also have an effect. Say, cheaper forward- and/or side-scanning sonar which, combined with precise GPS positioning of the boat, builds up a real-time 3D map of the bottom (or even shoals of fish). Add a transponder to each diver and see where they are too! * The other technology that gets mentioned every now and again is liquid breather kit as in "The Abyss". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_breathing Apart from psychological problems in taking in the fluid and in replacing all the air in the sinuses etc., there are more serious troubles with damage to the linings of the lungs from the fluid used. I reckon they are on the wrong track with this. If the fluid were totally inert and didn't have to transport oxygen - just not harm the body - and the oxygen and carbon dioxide levels in the blood were regulated directly by a device like an artificial lung, then there would be no dodgy gas build-up in the tissues, no decompression, and no DCI. A tank of high pressure oxygen would mean that there is no need for the miles of tubing required for gills. OK, this means plumbing the blood supply into an external device, but hospitals have been doing it for decades. It's not completely outside the realms of possibility that one day (maybe not within the next 10 years) it will be possible. SignatureJoe http://joe.hotchkiss.com/ http://harrowsubaqua.org.uk/ > Nitrox blends that are generated on the fly within the regulator, based > on an internally integrated osmosis filter system, thereby allowing the > supply to be cheap, plain air to be used (and all of the currently > existing infrastructure). 2nd Generation design also allows for the > PPO2 to be automatically varied (tailored) with depth, thereby > improving its optimization. You speak of current rebreather technology applied to open circuit. Obviously blending on the fly isn't so easy in that circumstance, but automatic computer calibration to the current mix certainly is. My Oxy2 unit can recalibrate my Air Z O2 computer "on the fly" depending on the mix delivered through the exhalation hose of my Draeger. Why don't we have an O2-sensor-equipped transducer on the tank unit of AI computers that can automatically sense the nitrox mix? This could have serious life-saving potential. I was reminded on one of my most recent dives to reset my computer to air when diving some air tanks that they had substituted for my requested nitrox. Normally I change my computer setting to whatever I analyze the new tanks to be, but when presented with air because they had screwed up our request for NO2, I almost forget to change to 21%. Therefore: a nitrox AI computer that auto-senses the nitrox mix. I'd buy one. >> Nitrox blends that are generated on the fly within the regulator, based >> on an internally integrated osmosis filter system, thereby allowing the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Therefore: a nitrox AI computer that auto-senses the nitrox mix. I'd buy >one. In a heartbeat. The trick would be remembering to recalibrate it after every dive. Signaturedillon Could have been is in the past Could be is in the future There is only the now > In a heartbeat. The trick would be remembering to recalibrate it > after every dive. There's no reason why it couldn't autocalibrate. Or, at the least, it could lock up after a dive until the user recalibrated it. > Mike and Hugh agree that a stasis between practicality and cost has been > reached. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Lee You peaked with the pee-powered warm suit. Shoulda quit while you were ahead... >> I see I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again. >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >the coming 10 years, for the simple reason that a stasis has >been reached between practicality and cost. Given that my computer is 12 or 13 years old and still does everything I ask of it (okay, no nitrox), I'd say that computers have reached a stasis point. Little go-gaws, but no major change. >This is not the first time this has happened in diving history: >surface supply standard dress diving developed very rapidly from [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >m Anything that breaks is bad. Complex breaks easily. Sometimes dramatically. Drama underwater is not a good thing. Signaturedillon Could have been is in the past Could be is in the future There is only the now > >The point of the other responders is this: scuba gear has changed very little over the past 20 years, with the exception of the digital dive computer, and will change very little over the coming 10 years, for the simple reason that a stasis has been reached between practicality and cost. Thanks to everyone who answered my question seriously (the above is very helpful) as well as those who entered the realm of sci fi... The gill idea is verrry interesting. You've given me starting points. Very much appreciated. > The gill idea is verrry interesting. You've given me starting points. > > Very much appreciated. Writing a paper? -hh >>Practical rebreathers have been around for 150 years, have >>always been complicated, finicky, and expensive. There is >>nothing on the horizon that will change that. Hell, you could build the early Halcyon rebreather in your back yard from parts you picked up at the local bicycle shop. Lee >>>Practical rebreathers have been around for 150 years, have >>>always been complicated, finicky, and expensive. There is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Lee True, but it was still finicky. > Rebreathers for everybody - or is that still far in the future? Look deep into my crystal ball... In the future I predict that we will not need SCUBA gear at all. We'll simply engineer a set of gills in our peritoneum which we'll use to dive. You simply "inhale" water via you arse, and expel it through your navel. Or maybe it should be run in reverse? Magnetohydrodynamic diving anyone? Next question. Bryan :) >> Rebreathers for everybody - or is that still far in the future? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Next question. Damn. :-) > Bryan :) >> Rebreathers for everybody - or is that still far in the future? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Bryan :) It's not the tea that bugs me, it's all the chunks of ice that hurt the nostrils. Signaturedillon Could have been is in the past Could be is in the future There is only the now > Anyone care to speculate on what equipment will be available for sports > divers 10 years from now? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Any other high tech stuff on the horizon? A dive gear bag with lights inside. Matthias > A dive gear bag with lights inside. Done. There are several lights in my dive gear bag right now. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Lee >>A dive gear bag with lights inside. > > Done. There are several lights in my dive gear bag right now. Do they begin to shine the moment you open the zip? And, punctures don't cut it! Matthias >>>A dive gear bag with lights inside. >> Done. There are several lights in my dive gear bag right now. > Do they begin to shine the moment you open the zip? > And, punctures don't cut it! Sometimes they shine continuously, but only if I forget to turn them off. Unlike the one in my car toolbox, none of them have shown a tendency to get turned on while in the bag. Lee >>>>A dive gear bag with lights inside. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Unlike the one in my car toolbox, none of them have shown a tendency to get > turned on while in the bag. Should I have phrased my technology claim "bags with lighting inside"? Matthias >>>>>A dive gear bag with lights inside. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Should I have phrased my technology claim "bags with lighting inside"? No, I would have had just as much fun with that one. I knew what you meant, or think I did. I think what you want is quite possible now. Just because I like things a bit more complex, consider a solar powered rope light (everything waterproof, of course), sewn in to the top of the bag with a magnetic switch activated when the zipper hits the open end. Lee > >>>>>A dive gear bag with lights inside. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > No, I would have had just as much fun with that one. ;-) > I knew what you meant, or think I did. I think what you want is quite > possible now. Just because I like things a bit more complex, consider a > solar powered rope light (everything waterproof, of course), sewn in to the > top of the bag with a magnetic switch activated when the zipper hits the > open end. Sounds nice. If not feasible, at least I'd like diving equipment which answers to calls, and is able to shine a green light when everything is complete for the drive. Matthias Matthias > Sounds nice. If not feasible, at least I'd like diving equipment which > answers to calls, and is able to shine a green light when everything is > complete for the drive. I'd settle for car keys, wireless and cell phones and remote controls that tell me where they are hiding when I want them. Lee >> Sounds nice. If not feasible, at least I'd like diving equipment which >> answers to calls, and is able to shine a green light when everything is >> complete for the drive. > >I'd settle for car keys, wireless and cell phones and remote controls that >tell me where they are hiding when I want them. I'll settled for cell phones that tell me they're still in my pocket when I put my wetsuit on. >Lee > Signaturedillon Could have been is in the past Could be is in the future There is only the now > >>>>A dive gear bag with lights inside. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Should I have phrased my technology claim "bags with > lighting inside"? This isn't too far-fetched. An organic LED panel ( <http://www.dpreview.com/news/0005/00051203kodaksanyo_oled.asp> , for example, of just a big array of LEDs that light up at once) could be attached to the inside of a bag or woven into the fabric, and could light up the inside of a bag. >Anyone care to speculate on what equipment will be available for sports >divers 10 years from now? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Any other high tech stuff on the horizon? Despite the optimism about an artificial gill (theoretically if you could run enough water through a semipermeable membrane, the oxygen could be extracted), I saw an article once demonstrating that our oxygen requirements in terms of volume are simply too high. The maximum solubility of oxygen in water is too low to supply our need unless a ton of water is moved (not literally of course, just way too much) . Sketched a device out when I was a kid and was pretty disappointed to find out it was impractical. But a lot of technology has evolved since then, it might be possible now with nanomaterials, lots of surface area in a small package. How about a spun carbon fiber or fiberglass tank that would free us from some of the weight? Anything like that out there yet? Thinner, less ponderous dry suits made from new materials? Speaking of the blood nitrogen monitoring, something for this was contemplated for blood glucose and is already in use for oxygen, as anyone who has been in the hospital with that wired clothespin on his finger can attest. Can't account for the dissolved nitrogen in the tissues this way, though, but could use it as an input for Full face masks do look like a pain in the a.s. I've never worn one, but I used to have a Dacor Equinaut that was a near equivalent, probably the best mask I ever had. Remember the cool helmets and tank fairings that Cousteau's divers used to wear? I'd love to see stuff like that on the market at a reasonable price. The Nightrider http://www.niteriderdive.com looks good, but man they are $$$. Once good white LEDs come out, maybe the price will come down. Just some idle thoughts Terry L. Davis "Well... I am what I am, thank God. I said I am what I am, thank God. Some people don't understand, help them God. Yes, I am." Jimi Hendrix > Despite the optimism about an artificial gill (theoretically if you > could run enough water through a semipermeable membrane, the oxygen > could be extracted), I saw an article once demonstrating that our > oxygen requirements in terms of volume are simply too high. I saw an article once that proved a bumble bee could not fly. Nothing is possible until someone figures out how to do it. > The maximum solubility of oxygen in water is too low to supply our need > unless a ton of water is moved (not literally of course, just way too > much) . Sketched a device out when I was a kid and was pretty > disappointed to find out it was impractical. But a lot of technology > has evolved since then, it might be possible now with nanomaterials, > lots of surface area in a small package. OK, here's an idea for you engineers to think about. How about a system for breaking water down into it's hydrogen and oxygen components, using a combination of stored or thermal energy plus hydrogen burned in the exhaust gas to power the process. Nitrogen and other trace gases could be retained by osmosis. > How about a spun carbon fiber or fiberglass tank that would free us > from some of the weight? Anything like that out there yet? Yes. Problem is, they're very buoyant. You have to replace the weight of the tanks with weight somewhere else. > Thinner, less ponderous dry suits made from new materials? I like it. > Speaking of the blood nitrogen monitoring, something for this was > contemplated for blood glucose and is already in use for oxygen, as > anyone who has been in the hospital with that wired clothespin on his > finger can attest. Can't account for the dissolved nitrogen in the > tissues this way, though, but could use it as an input for > Remember the cool helmets and tank fairings that Cousteau's divers > used to wear? I'd love to see stuff like that on the market at a > reasonable price. The Nightrider http://www.niteriderdive.com looks > good, but man they are $$$. Once good white LEDs come out, maybe the > price will come down. There aren't good white LEDs? Lee > Remember the cool helmets and tank fairings that Cousteau's divers > used to wear? I'd love to see stuff like that on the market at a > reasonable price. The Nightrider http://www.niteriderdive.com looks > good, but man they are $$$. Once good white LEDs come out, maybe the > price will come down. Good white LEDs already exist. This company: http://www.harvatek.com.tw/main.html makes 1+ watt white LEDs that are used in displays, signs, etc. I have a small flashlight that uses one of these LEDs and it's as bright as a typical Mag-Lite of a similar size (3AAA batteries) (it was given to me as a gift from an affiliated company. I have no idea where to buy one). As you noted, dive light manufacturers are starting to use LEDs in their lights, and I expect they will replace normal incandescent bulbs completely within 5 years. The only thing I don't see them replacing are HID lights. > € Remember the cool helmets and tank fairings that Cousteau's divers > € used to wear? I'd love to see stuff like that on the market at a > € reasonable price. The helmets are available at Sports Authority and many WalMarts. The fairings are cheap and easy to make with fiberglas kits from Discount Auto. Don't confuse dive technology with marketing gimmicks. >> > Remember the cool helmets and tank fairings that Cousteau's divers >> > used to wear? I'd love to see stuff like that on the market at a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Don't confuse dive technology with marketing gimmicks. Yeah, I actually have a HeadsUP Lite from Pelican (who normally makes great dive lights) that leaks like a sieve at 40 feet. It's rated submersible to 500 feet though, you can try mine out on your next cave dive... Anyone who has done hand layup of fiberglass knows that it ain't all that easy or inexpensive to produce a decent part. And I don't buy cheap Chinese crap from WalMart. It's already destroyed a big chunk of our manufacturing base. As for marketing gimmicks, half of the dive market is based on those. Just look at fins, for instance. T.L. Davis > Anyone who has done hand layup of fiberglass knows that it ain't all > that easy or inexpensive to produce a decent part. And I don't buy > cheap Chinese crap from WalMart. It's already destroyed a big chunk > of our manufacturing base. You might want to look at where your computer was made. Virtually all laptops today are assembled in China. > As for marketing gimmicks, half of the dive market is based on those. > Just look at fins, for instance. That's Mike's point. Don't cofuse marketing hype with advances in technology. > T.L. Davis >> Anyone who has done hand layup of fiberglass knows that it ain't all >> that easy or inexpensive to produce a decent part. And I don't buy >> cheap Chinese crap from WalMart. It's already destroyed a big chunk >> of our manufacturing base. >You might want to look at where your computer was made. Virtually all >laptops today are assembled in China. Yeah, I'm typing on a Chinese HP laptop right now (are you psychic, dude?) and my favorite AK is Chinese. I said, "cheap Chinese crap from WalMart". Neither the notebook or the rifle meet that criteria. >> As for marketing gimmicks, half of the dive market is based on those. >> Just look at fins, for instance. >That's Mike's point. Don't cofuse marketing hype with advances in >technology. Got that point. I have a set of Cressi Frogs that I'd put up against any fin except the current ScubaPro jet fins. The foot pocket is underneath the blade; this seems to make a big difference in efficiency, for me at least. Bought a pair of Dacors that were highly recommended in all the dive mags; they were like plywood boards strapped to your feet. They're free to anybody willing to pay the shipping cost. Cressi doesn't advertise a lot, but they make great gear. Innovation beats hype every time, but you can lose $ trying to tell the difference. >> T.L. Davis (Yep) > and my favorite AK is Chinese An actual AK or are you calling an SKS an AK by mistake? With regards to the SKS, the Russian ones were better constructed than the Chinese ones... Milled parts instead of stamped ones... >> and my favorite AK is Chinese > >An actual AK or are you calling an SKS an AK by mistake? With regards to >the SKS, the Russian ones were better constructed than the Chinese ones... >Milled parts instead of stamped ones... Got one of those Russian SKSs from 1954. It is quite solid. The "AK" is a semiauto Chinese NHM-90, a variant of the MAK-90 imported prior to the ban. Got a Russian Saiga also, but the Chinese action seems a bit smoother. The Saiga is actually an AK-74 chambered in 7.62 X 39. Other than that, the quality seems about the same. >>> > Remember the cool helmets and tank fairings that Cousteau's divers >>> > used to wear? I'd love to see stuff like that on the market at a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >As for marketing gimmicks, half of the dive market is based on those. >Just look at fins, for instance. Just don't Force the issue. >T.L. Davis > Signaturedillon Could have been is in the past Could be is in the future There is only the now >>As for marketing gimmicks, half of the dive market is based on those. >>Just look at fins, for instance. > > Just don't Force the issue. :-) >>T.L. Davis |
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