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Scuba Forum / General / August 2006

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Prescription mask versus contact lens

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Jay Furr - 13 Feb 2006 15:54 GMT
My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
affiliated dive shop have recommended prescription masks since you could
easily lose a contact when your mask floods.  She wants nothing to do with
this because she wouldn't have peripheral vision with a prescription mask;
she plans to simply never need to purge her mask and hence, as she sees it,
she'll never have to worry about losing a contact at 60 feet.

Thoughts?  I'm not an expert either, but all our instructors and other dive
shop employees have patiently explained that *they* dive with prescription
masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
convincing my wife to consider it.

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"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no god.
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."  -- Thomas Jefferson

"There's hits in chicken."  -- Wade Boggs

Andy Richardson - 13 Feb 2006 16:05 GMT
I would always dive with contacts.
If you are on a holiday and her prescription mask gets lost or damaged
she is stuck.  With contacts you can always beg, borrow or steal a new
mask and enjoy the rest of the holiday.
If you loses a contact you can always replace that for the next dive
especially if you use the daily disposables.

It becomes second nature to close your eyes if your mask floods and open
them when you've cleared it.
I have never lost a lens yet (finding wood to touch very quickly!!!!!)

Signature

Andy Richardson
Derbyshire

> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.
Charlie Hammond - 13 Feb 2006 16:36 GMT
>My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
>starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
>convincing my wife to consider it.

How bad is your wife's eyesight?  I.e. if she lost her contact lenses
could she see well enough to surface safely and to find the boat or shore?

You say that "she plans to simply never need to purge her mask...".  
Ha!  That is just nor realistic.  But, if she closes here eyes when
the mask floods, she will probably not have a problem -- most of the
time.  However, over time, it is nearly certain that she WILL loose one
or both contacts.  Heck, that happens now and then even OUT of the water.
If she can deal with it, go with the contacts.

My eyes don't tolerate contact lenses, so I wear a mask with prescription
lenses.  My general opinion  is that those who use contacts to dive are
better off than those who use prescription lenses.  In other words, I agee
with your wife.

Suggestions:

(1) Bring and EXTRA pair of contacts when diving.  If the lenses get
lost of contaminated, change to that pair.

(2) Check with your eye care professional for any special cleaning
that may be needed after diving -- or if the lenses should just be
replaced after diving.  

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     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

ben bradlee - 13 Feb 2006 16:39 GMT
"Jay Furr" <jfurr-nospam@nospam-furrs.org> wrote in message >

> Thoughts?  I'm not an expert either, but all our instructors and other
> dive
> shop employees have patiently explained that *they* dive with prescription
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

People think others should do what they do for various reasons.  It sounds
like your wife considered the prescription mask and rejected the idea.
Maybe you mean you're having a hell of a time getting your wife to do what
you think is best.  In any event, it's her dive; let her do whatever to hell
she wants.
Greg Mossman - 13 Feb 2006 17:51 GMT
> Thoughts?  I'm not an expert either, but all our instructors and other
> dive
> shop employees have patiently explained that *they* dive with prescription
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

It sounds like the helpful and patient dive shop employees get a nice
kickback from whoever makes their prescription masks for them.  Fortunately
your wife isn't a sucker.

As long as she wears soft lenses, especially the disposable type, and
primarily dives in the ocean, she's correct that contact lenses are
preferable.  I have heard of issues with hard lenses, though gas permeable
hard lenses should be OK.  I've also heard of divers contracting eye
infections from bacteria-laden fresh water.  Then again I've made four dives
in Lake Perris, one of the nastiest diveable lakes in the world, and my eyes
didn't suffer.  I did, however, toss the lenses after those dives.

The hardest part about wearing contacts is during certification, when you're
required to completely flood your mask and/or take it off and replace it
underwater.  The only time this might become an issue for her in future
diving is if her mask gets kicked or tangled in something and pulled off her
head.  If she can grab it and replace it with her eyes closed, no problem.
In fact, eye-closed mask replacement might be a skill she would want to
practice.  In the worst case scenario, mask gets kicked off her head and she
has to open her eyes to find it, she's no more blind than the rest of us
underwater without a mask.

Contacts tend to adhere a bit to the eyeball and don't come out that easily
when flooded unless the flooding solution is the same salinity as the eye.
I've briefly opened my eyes underwater in swimming pools and in the ocean
and have never lost a lens as a result.  If I did, I suppose I'd be in
trouble the rest of the dive day until I could get back to my hotel room and
put in a new pair.  If I were really concerned, I'd bring an extra pair on
the boat with me.  But since I've never ever lost one while diving, I simply
don't bother.  I do always bring an extra pair or several on dive trips,
mainly because I worry about losing one on land and spoiling the rest of my
trip, but losing them underwater simply is not a real issue.

On the other hand, Janna wears a prescription mask because she can't
tolerate contact lenses well.  She has no complaints about field of view.
What is a problem for her is that she is rendered blind unless that mask is
on her face, from the time she stows her glasses away safely on the dive
boat until after she gets back to the boat, gets her gear off, and can
retrieve her glasses.  For me, that would be uncomfortable.  I don't put my
mask on until right before I hit the water and it comes off my face as soon
as I ascend unless the seas are really rolling.  My visage is simply too
handsome to be covered up with an ugly mask for too long.

Also, a spare prescription mask is a necessity for long, expensive dive
trips.  You don't want to arrive on your $3,500 pp 11-day liveaboard after a
$1,500 plane trip only to find that your prescription mask broke on route
and now you can't dive.  That would, in a word, suck.  Before I started
doing liveaboard trips with Janna, I insisted she get a spare.  One of the
masks always rides with her on the plane in a carry-on bag.  She has a bad
habit of setting her mask down on the bench next to her when she doffs her
gear and it's only a matter of time until someone else sits on it, and
crunch.  Since my constant begging her to put the mask somewhere safe is
interpreted as nagging, buying a spare was the safest and sanest thing to
do.  But that's an extra $250 or so right there.  I can buy many boxes of
contacts for that price
jim frei - 13 Feb 2006 18:10 GMT
> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> it,
> she'll never have to worry about losing a contact at 60 feet.

I've been diving with extended wear contacts since 1990 and never lost one
(can't even remember a flooded mask).  Dive count at least 600.

> Thoughts?  I'm not an expert either, but all our instructors and other
> dive
> shop employees have patiently explained that *they* dive with prescription
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

Dive shop makes profit on prescription masks.  And they ain't cheap neither.
GWB - 13 Feb 2006 18:55 GMT
>Dive shop makes profit on prescription masks.  And they ain't cheap neither.

Not cheap, but a bargain at any price.
I'm ridiculously far-sighted and can't tolerate contacts.
I'd have to carry a magnifying glass to read my gauges.
Dennis (Icarus) - 13 Feb 2006 18:27 GMT
> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
She could do the same - wear a non-prescription mask with contacts, and in
the event of a flood and contact loss, switch to the presxcription backup
mask.

Dennis
Greg Mossman - 13 Feb 2006 18:38 GMT
> I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.

I'm curious.  Do you carry a spare fin as well?
Joe English - 13 Feb 2006 18:51 GMT
>>I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
>
> I'm curious.  Do you carry a spare fin as well?

I carry an extra set of fins
Greg Mossman - 13 Feb 2006 18:58 GMT
>>>I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
>>
>> I'm curious.  Do you carry a spare fin as well?
> I carry an extra set of fins

Extra BC too?
Joe English - 13 Feb 2006 23:19 GMT
>>>>I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Extra BC too?

no , extra skin
jim frei - 14 Feb 2006 00:27 GMT
>>>>I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
>>>
>>> I'm curious.  Do you carry a spare fin as well?
>> I carry an extra set of fins
>
> Extra BC too?

Not me...but I do carry an extra divemaster, in case I have to stab the
first one for being an idiot.
chilly - 14 Feb 2006 02:48 GMT
> > Extra BC too?
>
> Not me...but I do carry an extra divemaster, in case I have to stab the
> first one for being an idiot.

LOL
Richard Whiffen - 14 Feb 2006 14:45 GMT
>>>>> I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Not me...but I do carry an extra divemaster, in case I have to stab the
> first one for being an idiot.

Oh man... People are coming into my cube to make sure I'm ok... I blew
coffee through my nose after reading that.... What a mess, but DAAAAAMN
funny.

Cheers,

Rich
El Mecky - 15 Feb 2006 08:35 GMT
>>>>>> I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Oh man... People are coming into my cube to make sure I'm ok... I blew
> coffee through my nose after reading that.... What a mess, but DAAAAAMN

Good tip Rich! Carry extra coffee, cubes, mess and people. Maybe extra nose
to, in case a shark eats it! (be carefull with that shark then! The nose
might have still contained cafeine and the shark might get easily irritated
then. Might want to considder carrieng extra shark!)

Fr.
Dennis (Icarus) - 14 Feb 2006 04:10 GMT
> > I carry a backup mask withme on all my dives.
>
> I'm curious.  Do you carry a spare fin as well?

No need - if I lose a fin I can ascend pretty easily, and unless I'm in a
real remote locale, I should be able to get a new fin or set of fins pretty
easily.
I don;t wear contacts and have rather poor vision (shut up, Carl).
I figure its a good thing to have.

Dennis
Greg Mossman - 14 Feb 2006 18:56 GMT
> No need - if I lose a fin I can ascend pretty easily, and unless I'm in a
> real remote locale, I should be able to get a new fin or set of fins
> pretty
> easily.
> I don;t wear contacts and have rather poor vision (shut up, Carl).
> I figure its a good thing to have.

Maybe.  My thoughts are similar to yours about the fins.  If I lose a mask,
I can ascend pretty easily, and unless I'm in a real remote locale, I should
be able to get a new mask pretty easily.  And I can certainly understand why
you bring a spare on dive trips since it's prescription.  Heck, I bring a
spare too.

But if you lose a fin, you might not be able to swim back to the boat/shore,
might get lost at sea, and might die.  A lot of good it will do you then to
be able to see.
Dennis (Icarus) - 15 Feb 2006 02:39 GMT
> > No need - if I lose a fin I can ascend pretty easily, and unless I'm in a
> > real remote locale, I should be able to get a new fin or set of fins
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> might get lost at sea, and might die.  A lot of good it will do you then to
> be able to see.

Nah. the VRWC doesn't want to lose me. :-)

Dennis
Greg Mossman - 15 Feb 2006 05:29 GMT
> Nah. the VRWC doesn't want to lose me. :-)

Mother Nature sure isn't on your guys' side.
El Mecky - 15 Feb 2006 08:31 GMT
>> No need - if I lose a fin I can ascend pretty easily, and unless I'm in a
>> real remote locale, I should be able to get a new fin or set of fins
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> boat/shore, might get lost at sea, and might die.  A lot of good it will
> do you then to be able to see.

And there might be a shark. And that shark might not be able to swim. And
therefore the shark might have moved to sneaking. And the shark might want
to sneak up behind you. And of course as you turn to see what's behind you,
you might sh.t in your suit for fear. So bring extra fins, extra mask, extra
suit and, while we're at it, extra regs,bcd, tanks and  instruments as well.
And bring somebody to carry all that for you in the water. I've got someone
like that. I call him buddy. Best of all, he paid all the sh.t himself. On
the other hand, if that sneaking shark gets him first, I'll be in the water,
drifted away from the boat to open sea, with one fin and no mask with a
freakin shark. Maybe I should bring a spare buddy. Or two. Or three.

I'm typing faster than I think.... I think.... eerrr, I type,.....don't I?
....I did!

no more drinks for me today!
Frank
Joe English - 13 Feb 2006 18:46 GMT
> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

I dove with contacts before lasik.  I lost a few - never dove with
prescription.  Now I have a little insert lens for reading my gauges and
dive computer.
Popeye - 13 Feb 2006 20:29 GMT
> she plans to simply never need to purge her mask and hence, as she sees
> it,
> she'll never have to worry about losing a contact at 60 feet.

 Your wife's problem is her attitude, not her vision correction.

 1) A thought train like that is flatly unsafe and has no business in the
water, and,

 2) Hope you survive the incident as well, being the spouse (not likely if
you're any kind of a man), and,

 3) Now might be a swell time to contact your agent about a coverage
re-evaluation.
chilly - 13 Feb 2006 20:52 GMT
> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.

It sounds like she's already been diving with her contacts or do you mean to
say that she did her training while wearing them?  It matters not, I wore
disposable contact lenses (while diving) for years before I had lasik.  I
never lost a lens though there were a few times that after removing my mask,
I thought I'd lost a lens.  However, it was only a bit of water in my eye
and the lens had floated up under my eyelid a bit.  A few extra blinks and a
drying pat of the eyes on a towel, would resettle the lens.  I always
carried plenty of replacement lenses on my dive trips and any day trips I
had at least one spare pair with me.

Does your wife wear disposable lenses?

> Our instructors from our NAUI-
> affiliated dive shop have recommended prescription masks since you could
> easily lose a contact when your mask floods.  She wants nothing to do with
> this because she wouldn't have peripheral vision with a prescription mask;
> she plans to simply never need to purge her mask and hence, as she sees it,
> she'll never have to worry about losing a contact at 60 feet.

I've purged my mask plenty of times while wearing contacts.  Heck, I've
deliberately flooded it.  Tell her to squint or close her eyes during the
process.  As far as her plans for "simply never need to purge her mask", I'm
sure she's saying that all very tongue in cheek.

> Thoughts?  I'm not an expert either, but all our instructors and other dive
> shop employees have patiently explained that *they* dive with prescription
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

I'd quit trying to convince your wife to consider it.  I also can't believe
that there are so many of your instructors and dive shop employees wearing
prescription masks, and none that wear their contacts instead.  How did you
end up with a shop that has such poor eyesight?
Whistler - 14 Feb 2006 02:43 GMT
> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

I just finished a course where I flooded and fully removed my mask about
a dozen times.  Both I and my buddy did this with contacts on, eyes
closed.  With practice, you learn to do this without quickly,
efficiently and without changing depth.

Rather than assuming it will never happen, your wife should simply
practice these skills with contacts on until proficient. Again, it is
important to be able to maintain your buoyancy control.  Starting by
just closing her eyes and maintaining depth would be an excellent first
step. Then move on to flooding and full removal with eyes closed.
Whistler - 14 Feb 2006 02:45 GMT
> I just finished a course where I flooded and fully removed my mask about
> a dozen times.  Both I and my buddy did this with contacts on, eyes
> closed.  With practice, you learn to do this without quickly,
> efficiently and without changing depth.

Uh, scratch that first ``without''.
Greg Mossman - 14 Feb 2006 18:58 GMT
> I just finished a course where I flooded and fully removed my mask about a
> dozen times.  Both I and my buddy did this with contacts on, eyes closed.
> With practice, you learn to do this without quickly, efficiently and
> without changing depth.

I concur, but whenever I close my eyes underwater I can't help but think I'm
making it easier for a shark to sneak up on me.

What was the course?
El Mecky - 15 Feb 2006 08:21 GMT
>> I just finished a course where I flooded and fully removed my mask about
>> a dozen times.  Both I and my buddy did this with contacts on, eyes
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I concur, but whenever I close my eyes underwater I can't help but think
> I'm making it easier for a shark to sneak up on me.

Sharks don't sneak. They swim.

The question is: Are you sneakworthy?
or even more important:  Are you sneakable?
or to counter the shark: Are you sneaky?

Sorry, one to many whiskey-cola. I'm off to bed!

Frank
Dillon Pyron - 14 Feb 2006 04:02 GMT
>My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
>starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
>convincing my wife to consider it.

Carol's worn her contacts on every dive for the last 20 years.  Hasn't
lost one, never had a problem with purging her mask (close the eyes).
Always packs a spare pair or two.

I don't wear contacts, have a mask with lenses.  Never had a problem,
although I treat my mask like a golden egg.
Signature

dillon

Could have been is in the past
Could be is in the future
There is only the now

Greg Mossman - 14 Feb 2006 18:58 GMT
> I don't wear contacts, have a mask with lenses.  Never had a problem,
> although I treat my mask like a golden egg.

You sit on it?
Dillon Pyron - 15 Feb 2006 23:59 GMT
>> I don't wear contacts, have a mask with lenses.  Never had a problem,
>> although I treat my mask like a golden egg.
>
>You sit on it?

No, I killed the goose for the pate'.
Signature

dillon

Could have been is in the past
Could be is in the future
There is only the now

Okidiver - 23 May 2006 02:56 GMT
Damn, lucky no coffee--that's a snorter!

Signature

Rapid Rick
"Just dive, baby"

>> I don't wear contacts, have a mask with lenses.  Never had a problem,
>> although I treat my mask like a golden egg.
>
> You sit on it?
Gary Daehn - 14 Feb 2006 04:06 GMT
> Thoughts?  I'm not an expert either, but all our instructors and other
> dive
> shop employees have patiently explained that *they* dive with prescription
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

I wish I could dive with contacts. Not crazy about my prescription
masks...and expensive replacements when there is a significant change in
prescription. However I wear bifocals and I havn't been satisfied with the
"bifocal" contact options. Contacts and gauge readers are also an option but
my experience with those readers has been less than satisfactory. So I guess
I'll stick with the prescription mask.
Gary
Lee Bell - 14 Feb 2006 22:38 GMT
> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.

First, with most masks, she's not going to have much periferal vision
anyway.  That's probably not a major factor.  Second, she can forget
about not having to purge her mask.  Sooner or later, something will
happen and she will have to.

The choice really comes down to what she prefers.  One factor worth
considering, however, is that some people like to take their masks off
at the surface.  If her lenses are in the mask, she's not going to be
able to see if she does that.  With contacts, she can.

The dive shop wants to sell her a mask with lenses.  She should listen
to what they have to say, but also should remember that they are not
exactly unbiased.

Lee
KV - 16 Feb 2006 12:27 GMT
I have always worn contacts while diving (about 120 dives), and lost a lens
one time. I always carry some spares, so it wasn't a problem. My optometrist
prescribes lenses that are made for active sports about three years ago, I
havn't lost one of those, even while surfing-I think they are Biomedics 55.

> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.
Amanda - 23 Feb 2006 04:32 GMT
> I have always worn contacts while diving (about 120 dives), and lost a lens
> one time. I always carry some spares, so it wasn't a problem. My optometrist
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
>>convincing my wife to consider it.

I wear disposable contacts, so losing one on a dive is only an issue if
I don't have spares (which I always do.

As for losing one when you purge your mask...I've never had a problem.
I've done it several times (including the c-test where you have to take
the whole mask off) and just keeping my eyes closed was enough to keep
the contacts safe. I didn't even have to skwunch my eyes...just close them.

Before I dove with contacts, I tried just swimming with them to see how
easy it was to lose them. I even opened my eyes underwater a few times.
Never had a problem.

a
Okidiver - 23 May 2006 02:53 GMT
Lots of folks dive with contacts with no issues.  I had a mask kicked off
while diving the Mispah off WPB back in the mid 80s in some smokin' current.
Opened my eyes, yup, mask is gone, found it, closed my eyes, cleared, voila!
Burning eyes and BOTH contacts in place (gas permeable hard) AND not swept
off the wreck!  Back on the boat, my buddy didn't even have a clue he kicked
off my mask...I learned an important lesson that day about getting too close
to someone in current...

Losing a fin while diving?  Maybe in surf (seen that), but while diving?
Make me smile, guys...

Signature

Rapid Rick
"Just dive, baby"

> My wife, a novice diver, wants to go on wearing her contacts when she
> starts actively diving this summer.  Our instructors from our NAUI-
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> masks and think it's a good idea, but I'm having a hell of a time
> convincing my wife to consider it.
Greg Mossman - 23 May 2006 17:17 GMT
> Losing a fin while diving?  Maybe in surf (seen that), but while diving?
> Make me smile, guys...

We did a shore dive off Playa Chileno in the Los Cabos area, somewhat low
tide, and the waves started picking up.  We were poking around near the
rocks at 15-20', when I turned around and Janna had disappeared.  I swam
around a bit trying to find her and finally surfaced.  Didn't see her in the
water anywhere, then looked up and saw her sitting on one of the treacherous
rocks.  What the heck?

Made my way over to her ASAP, got slammed into the rocks leaving a bruise on
my chest like someone had kicked me, but finally got her back into the
water.  Turns out she was swept into a channel, the surge pushed her up and
onto the rocks, and she was too freaked to get back in on her own because
one of her fins got lost in the process.  Great.  Looked down and spotted
the fin, but I got Janna back to calmer waters first and when I went back
down to retrieve it, it was gone in the maelstrom of surge.  Ended up
practically towing her back, making the surface swim take 10 times longer
than on the way out.
Okidiver - 17 Aug 2006 04:03 GMT
No smile on that one, crashing death surf and current make for kgnad
retraction.  I've got a couple saves in death surf and they are sobering.

Signature

Rapid Rick
"Just Dive, Baby"

>> Losing a fin while diving?  Maybe in surf (seen that), but while diving?
>> Make me smile, guys...

.  Turns out she was swept into a channel, the surge pushed her up and
> onto the rocks, and she was too freaked to get back in on her own because
> one of her fins got lost in the process.  Great.  Looked down and spotted
> the fin, but I got Janna back to calmer waters first and when I went back
> down to retrieve it, it was gone in the maelstrom of surge.  Ended up
> practically towing her back, making the surface swim take 10 times longer
> than on the way out.
 
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