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Scuba Forum / General / January 2006collecting tropical fish Va/NC
Hi all, Does anyone out there collect tropical strays north of Florida? I have been doing it for years in Va and NC. Last summer, I caught my first lionfish in about six feet of water. Normally, I catch blue angels, butterflies, damsels, wrasses, etc. Was hoping to hook up with other collectors on here to see what is being caught, and where. Let me know if you have had any luck! > Hi all, > Does anyone out there collect tropical strays north of Florida? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > other collectors on here to see what is being caught, and where. > Let me know if you have had any luck! If you caught a lionfish off NC, you need to notify the NC Marine Fisheries at 800-682-2632 and tell them where you caught. Then you need to kill it - lionfish are an invasive predator that does not belong off the NC coast. "jim frei" wrote .. >> Hi all, >> Does anyone out there collect tropical strays north of Florida? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> other collectors on here to see what is being caught, and where. >> Let me know if you have had any luck! > If you caught a lionfish off NC, you need to notify the NC Marine > Fisheries at 800-682-2632 and tell them where you caught. Then you need > to kill it - lionfish are an invasive predator that does not belong off > the NC coast. Or anywhere else along the US Atlantic coast, but he doesn't need to kill it as long as he does not return it to the ocean alive. Just what we need, another poisonous fish. Lee > "jim frei" wrote > .. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Lee They have been spotted of Florida for a year or two now. No "real" threat to us but a major issue with predetiory fish since they have no clue to the spines. The sticg is painfull for quite a while. Mine got me in the hand by accident while cleaning the tank. I had a friend's arm turn black from a hit. Was that way for over a week and he could not use it during that time. Keep of kill any you see. Jim >>>If you caught a lionfish off NC, you need to notify the NC Marine >>>Fisheries at 800-682-2632 and tell them where you caught. Then you need [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > to us but a major issue with predetiory fish since they have no clue to > the spines. Too soon to tell whether they are a "real" threat to us or not. They have been spotted with increasing frequency the past few years, so it appears that they have no problem with our ecosystem. The question is whether our ecosystem has a problem with them. Remember the zebra mussel. Between runoff, overfishing of many species, toxic discharge from treatment plants, dredging for "beach renourishment", and other factors our marine life is under a lot of pressure. It would not take much - e.g. an introduced species - to tip the delicate balance. > Too soon to tell whether they are a "real" threat to us or not. > They have been spotted with increasing frequency the past few [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > would not take much - e.g. an introduced species - to tip the > delicate balance. I can't agree more. we do seem to be doing everything in our power to destroy what we have left. Beach are a real issue for me since its my firm beliefe they are supposed to come and go and not be lived on. We seen to enjoy wiping out what we can't see in order to make a few bucks from tourists. Jim >>>>If you caught a lionfish off NC, you need to notify the NC Marine >>>>Fisheries at 800-682-2632 and tell them where you caught. Then you need [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >would not take much - e.g. an introduced species - to tip the >delicate balance. Can we say Global warming ? > Can we say Global warming ? More like global climate change. There is mounting evidence that this is a normal cycle about every 4700 years. Its those who would have the strong nations weakened by strict emmisions laws that claim this. And if you look at the coubtries telling us to stop most emmit more toxins then us.( The US) We do need to get a grip on what we are doing but the climate is to vast for us to kill as they say. Add to that the fact that we still have a very small understanding of how it works. And lets not forget the 70's and " Global cooling " with the we need to melt the polar ice caps now to save earth. These are the same people and Groups. just my .02 cents Jim >>Can we say Global warming ? > > More like global climate change. > > There is mounting evidence that this is a normal cycle about every 4700 > years. Cite,pls. Matthias >>>Can we say Global warming ? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Matthias Give me a few days. Some of it was on the Discovery channel Jim > Give me a few days. Some of it was on the Discovery channel Sure you didn't see it on Fox News? >> Give me a few days. Some of it was on the Discovery channel > > Sure you didn't see it on Fox News? Even when I was a republicrat I did not watch Fox news. Jim > They have been spotted of Florida for a year or two now. I know, but I've still not seen one. > No real" threat to us but a major issue with predetiory fish since they > have no clue to > the spines. > The sticg is painfull for quite a while. Mine got me in the hand by > accident while cleaning the tank. I had a friend's arm turn black from a > hit. Was that way for over a week and he could not use it during that > time. Keep or kill any you see. I consider a painful sting that turns part of my body black and renders it unusable for a week to be a pretty serious threat. On the other hand, I'm not real big on killing things I don't plan to eat. I'm not normally equipped for capturing or keeping things I don't set out to obtain. Hmmm, what to do, what to do. Lee >> They have been spotted of Florida for a year or two now. > > I know, but I've still not seen one. Me either >> No real" threat to us but a major issue with predetiory fish since they >> have no clue to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Lee His Dr. told him it was due to his alergies to bee stings and such thaat made it so bad. It was far less then that for me but then I barely showed and effects from two seperate black widow encounters. And my current job site will probably give 3+ :( I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We have killing parties some years or we loose all plants in the yards here. Jim > I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We have > killing parties some years or we loose all plants in the yards here. Grasshopper killing parties? And they wonder why I joke about rednecks . . . >> I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We have >> killing parties some years or we loose all plants in the yards here. > >Grasshopper killing parties? > >And they wonder why I joke about rednecks . . . If the grasshoppers are the same ones I'm thinking of it is no joke at all. The first time I saw one of these things I thought it was a small bird. One of them got into my screened in porch in Ocala and destroyed several plants before I discovered it. These things are *huge*. By far the largest insect I've ever seen. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net We are the CroMagnon of the future >>>I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We have >>>killing parties some years or we loose all plants in the yards here. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > plants before I discovered it. These things are *huge*. By far the > largest insect I've ever seen. Seems to be a yet unexploited source of low fat diet. Matthias >>>>I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We >>>>have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Seems to be a yet unexploited source of low fat diet. I believe humans could replace their cow-based protein with insect-based protein, but then we'd put Oscar-Meyer and MacDonalds out of business. >>>>>I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We >>>>>have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I believe humans could replace their cow-based protein with insect-based > protein, but then we'd put Oscar-Meyer and MacDonalds out of business. They are from what I hear very bitter. I have seen bass spit them out and birds and the like just ignore them. Ants wont even eat a dead one. This critter is safe from the pan. Jim > They are from what I hear very bitter. I have seen bass spit them out and > birds and the like just ignore them. Ants wont even eat a dead one. This > critter is safe from the pan. Cockroaches are rather bitter also... They don't exactly go good with Dr. Pepper either... >> They are from what I hear very bitter. I have seen bass spit them out and >> birds and the like just ignore them. Ants wont even eat a dead one. This >> critter is safe from the pan. > >Cockroaches are rather bitter also... They don't exactly go good with Dr. >Pepper either... Sounds like there's a story there.  Signaturedillon 666 permissions of the beast > Sounds like there's a story there. Yeah, but not that special of one... Back when I was working for NASA (via Loral Aerospace), there was a convenience store right next door to our office... I had gone over there one morning for a "Big Gulp" type fountain drink (Dr. Pepper)... Filled the cup with ice and drink and went back to the office, drinking it... Later that morning when I had finished the last of the drink, I was eating the ice also... At some point, I had a little surprise in a bite... It tasted bitter and had a consistancy very unlike ice or drink... I spit it out very quickly... Of course, I complained to the store and quit doing business there... The best I could figure was that a cockroach crawled into the ice container and then froze / hibernated and was subsequently delivered into my cup when I pressed the ice delivery lever... I tend to examine my ice before I put the drink in it these days... >>>>>>I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We >>>>>>have [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >birds and the like just ignore them. Ants wont even eat a dead one. This >critter is safe from the pan. They say something like "it was a brave man who ate the first tomato." Or is it oyster? I'm not sure I'd call the person who discovered that these things are bitter "brave." Desperate, maybe. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net We are the CroMagnon of the future > They say something like "it was a brave man who ate the first tomato." Or > is it oyster? I'm not sure I'd call the person who discovered that these > things are bitter "brave." Desperate, maybe. There is a story about this, perhaps true, probably not. It involves George Washington's chef. As the story goes, he was a loyal Brit and, as such, tried to poison George by serving him the scarlet fruit of the deadly nightshade. Knowing that he would be apprehended, he committed suicide but, being a bit of a coward didn't do so by taking the poison he served to Washington. Too bad for him. The fruit he served, or so the story says, was Tomato. Oyster sounds right. What I want to know, however, is who was the first person to lick a Buffo marinus toad. Lee > Oyster sounds right. What I want to know, however, is who was the first > person to lick a Buffo marinus toad. > > Lee I can see eating things to live. But there had to be a drunken bet with licking a toad Jim >>>>>>>I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We >>>>>>>have [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > is it oyster? I'm not sure I'd call the person who discovered that these > things are bitter "brave." Desperate, maybe. Are these this the black ones with orange stripes? From the design you'd may tell that these are not that tasty. Same warning "camo" as in other critters which use color code to signalize "stay off" Matthias > They are from what I hear very bitter. I have seen bass spit them out and > birds and the like just ignore them. Ants wont even eat a dead one. This > critter is safe from the pan. One of the links you sent indicates that they are toxic. Lee >> I also kill only to eat except for lubers ( a giant grass hopper) We have >> killing parties some years or we loose all plants in the yards here. > > Grasshopper killing parties? > > And they wonder why I joke about rednecks . . . I'm no redneck. Was born and raised upstate NY in the mountians. If after a dry winter you see thousands of little black grasshoppers in the yard that nothing eats I mean nothing you will discover in few months why we kill them on sight. They eat everything to the ground get about 3 inches and can be so thick on the ground as adults that you can not avoid stepping on them. I think I have a few pics of em I will post them some where Jim > I'm no redneck. Was born and raised upstate NY in the mountains. Yeah, he's a hillbilly. So is Popeye. Curtis and Rick are rednecks. I'm a Cracker. Let's keep it straight. > If after a dry winter you see thousands of little black grasshoppers in > the yard that nothing eats I mean nothing you will discover in few months > why we kill them on sight. They eat everything to the ground get about 3 > inches and can be so thick on the ground as adults that you can not avoid > stepping on them. I think I have a few pics of em I will post them some > where. These are grasshoppers and not locusts? Lee >> I'm no redneck. Was born and raised upstate NY in the mountains. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Lee Grasshoppers A couple of links to give you an idea. http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/orn/lubber.htm http://www.biology.lsu.edu/heydrjay/Cicindelidae/lubber.html >> These are grasshoppers and not locusts? > Grasshoppers > A couple of links to give you an idea. > http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/orn/lubber.htm > http://www.biology.lsu.edu/heydrjay/Cicindelidae/lubber.html You learn something new every day. Years ago, many of them, I was told that those things were locusts. I've been calling them that ever since. This is the first time I even suspected I was wrong. Thanks. Lee > Grasshopper killing parties? > > And they wonder why I joke about rednecks . . . Only when you use a 12-gauge to kill 'em... Grasshoppers require precision fire, the preferred weapon being a .177 calibre pellet air gun... Of course, head shots are preferred in that it is more humane and doesn't destroy the 'meat'... >> Grasshopper killing parties? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > head shots are preferred in that it is more humane and doesn't destroy the > 'meat'... I have a slingshot. Lee > I have a slingshot. Me too... http://www.castlewales.com/trebucht.html A bit much for grasshoppers. Lee >> I have a slingshot. > > Me too... > http://www.castlewales.com/trebucht.html > A bit much for grasshoppers. I guess ya'll have smaller grasshoppers over there... > I consider a painful sting that turns part of my body black and renders it > unusable for a week to be a pretty serious threat. On the other hand, I'm > not real big on killing things I don't plan to eat. I'm not normally > equipped for capturing or keeping things I don't set out to obtain. Hmmm, > what to do, what to do. Well, I would have to treat it similar to other such questions that come up in life... When in doubt, Kill It... After it is dead, then you can decide if it needs to be grilled, deep fried, or just fed to the gators... >> I consider a painful sting that turns part of my body black and renders >> it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in life... When in doubt, Kill It... After it is dead, then you can decide > if it needs to be grilled, deep fried, or just fed to the gators... Fed the gayters.....AH GIT IT!!!....YEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..............Dayng ..........Happy New Yayr Grummay!!!!!!!!!! > > If you caught a lionfish off NC, you need to notify the NC Marine > > Fisheries at 800-682-2632 and tell them where you caught. Then you need [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Just what we need, another poisonous fish. FWIW I haven't seen a lionfish that far north but I did see one in the Bahamas this December on the Sea Viking Wreck http://www.divewithjay.com/gallery/DSC3155.JPG Jay Hi Jim, I did contact the NCMF and also NOAA plus a few others with the location depth and also the size of the lionfish. I now have it in a home aquarium so it will never breed or be a threat to anyone. No "killing" needed. Yes, they are "invasive", but, they are now established and thriving. Killing every one in sight will not make a difference now. Over the last ten years, they have gone from invasive to indigenous. > Hi Jim, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > difference now. Over the last ten years, they have gone from invasive > to indigenous. They will always remain invasice no marrer how long they are here, I atill say kill em all. I am not a fan of anything non native being let run amuck be it a cat, Monkeys in Ocala Florida or any of those %$#@^*&) ferril hogs, Jim > They will always remain invasice no marrer how long they are here, I atill > say kill em all. I am not a fan of anything non native being let run amuck > be it a cat, Monkeys in Ocala Florida or any of those %$#@^*&) ferril hogs, Ah, but the wild boars make for good hunting... You don't have to worry about any sort of bag limit or anything since they breed faster than we can kill 'em... Add to this the fact that they might just as well charge at you when you shoot 'em instead of running away and you have a lot more interesting game... Bambi might taste better, but Scrofa can make for a more 'interesting' day... >> They will always remain invasice no marrer how long they are here, I >> atill >> say kill em all. I am not a fan of anything non native being let run >> amuck >> be it a cat, Monkeys in Ocala Florida or any of those %$#@^*&) ferril >> hogs, > Ah, but the wild boars make for good hunting... You don't have to worry > about any sort of bag limit or anything since they breed faster than we [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > more > 'interesting' day... I can see a wild hog hunt coming up, particularly if we're talking in the Ocala National Forest. The forest has more miles of open ATV trails than all other sites in Florida combined . . . for now. Unfortunately, there are seasons and limits on hogs other than those on private land. Hunters can't arbitrarily shoot them even though park rangers did so for years. Lee > I can see a wild hog hunt coming up, particularly if we're talking in the > Ocala National Forest. The forest has more miles of open ATV trails than > all other sites in Florida combined . . . for now. Your new ATV would be sunk out of sight in the Louisiana swamps... I pulled my Jeep *slightly* offroad one day on one of the roads into the marshes and next thing I knew, I had muck halfway up the driver's side door... The only thing that kept it from going deeper was the differential sitting on the edge of the pavement... > Unfortunately, there are seasons and limits on hogs other than those on > private land. Hunters can't arbitrarily shoot them even though park rangers > did so for years. Must be all that Yankee influence that is coming down and ruining your state... Maybe if your state wasn't so desireable, you wouldn't have that problem... Louisiana and Mississippi still consider them non-native species and pests... I have to wonder what Katrina did to their populations though... They're pretty resilient and I suspect not much was done to their population base... Even if it was, they way they reproduce, they'll be back up to numbers fairly quickly... Getting rid of them will not be that easy... > Your new ATV would be sunk out of sight in the Louisiana swamps... I pulled > my Jeep *slightly* offroad one day on one of the roads into the marshes > and > next thing I knew, I had muck halfway up the driver's side door... The > only > thing that kept it from going deeper was the differential sitting on the > edge of the pavement... Which is a good reason for me to live in Florida rather than Louisiana. To tell the truth, though, I'd have to try it to be sure. My tires probably have as much contact area as your Jeep's but probably weigh less than a quarter what the Jeep does. >> Unfortunately, there are seasons and limits on hogs other than those on >> private land. Hunters can't arbitrarily shoot them even though park >> rangers did so for years. > Must be all that Yankee influence that is coming down and ruining your > state... No doubt about it. The new administrator of the Big Cypress preserve has plenty of park service experience, all at Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, on the southern shore of Lake Superior, in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Certainly sounds like relevant experience for our swamps full of deer and bear you never see and mud, gators and snakes you find it hard to avoid. So help me god, she actually printed, in the preserve's newsletter, that she loves heat, humidity and mosquitos. > Maybe if your state wasn't so desireable, you wouldn't have that > problem... Louisiana and Mississippi still consider them non-native > species > and pests. So does Florida. That's why the rangers are allowed to shoot them. Unfortunately, there's money to be made from allowing others to hunt them. All those Yankees sure are a money grubbing bunch. > I have to wonder what Katrina did to their populations > though... They're pretty resilient and I suspect not much was done to > their > population base... Even if it was, they way they reproduce, they'll be > back > up to numbers fairly quickly... Getting rid of them will not be that easy. Since they're good to eat and fun to hunt, I'm not at all interested in getting rid of them, at least not more than one or two a year of them. Lee > Which is a good reason for me to live in Florida rather than Louisiana. To > tell the truth, though, I'd have to try it to be sure. My tires probably > have as much contact area as your Jeep's but probably weigh less than a > quarter what the Jeep does. Well, try driving your ATV into a lake... If it floats, it probably won't sink in a Louisiana swamp... Hell, grits have more substance than the sh.t that I got stuck in... > No doubt about it. The new administrator of the Big Cypress preserve has > plenty of park service experience, all at Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > help me god, she actually printed, in the preserve's newsletter, that she > loves heat, humidity and mosquitos. Well, once the permafrost melts in her Yankee veins, she'll change her tune... You better watch out though, with comments like that, she might make the mosquito a protected species... > So does Florida. That's why the rangers are allowed to shoot them. > Unfortunately, there's money to be made from allowing others to hunt them. > All those Yankees sure are a money grubbing bunch. Well, Yankees are a non-native species also and they definitely are pests, so can the park rangers shoot them also? And for the regular hunters, what exactly is the bag limit on Yankees? > Since they're good to eat and fun to hunt, I'm not at all interested in > getting rid of them, at least not more than one or two a year of them. Hmmm... I didn't think the Yankees were eatable... >>... >>So [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the mosquito a protected species... >... I have to admit, neither the heat nor the humidity bothers me too much. I was born in Biloxi, Mississippi, so maybe being from the South has something to do with it. I tend to physically fold up if it gets into the 50s, and pretty much cease to function if it gets in the 30s. During winter nights here I seldom venture out at all, and sometimes during the days when I have to go out in the winter it is well bundled up. Friends and relatives from up North think I'm a real wimp because I complained about the bitter cold when I visited Maine a few summers ago, lows in the 40s and highs only barely cracking 80. Last summer here in Florida I didn't run the air conditioner at all during the night, although I'll admit to running it most days during the daytime. I can't say the same about mosquitoes, although they don't seem to bother me as much as they seem to irritate others. I have learned that the male mosquito is strictly vegetarian and that only the female "bites" (more like sucks). The male is important to the fertilization of some plants and flowers. I had kind of dismissed them as being sort of like fleas and ticks, or pretty much useless, now I grudgingly admit they might have some useful purpose to us. I can't see loving heat and humidity as being particularly crazy, although loving mosquitoes sounds pretty nuts to me. I'll bet dollars to donuts this lady works in an air conditioned, bug free office rather than practicing her "love," however. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net We are the CroMagnon of the future >I have to admit, neither the heat nor the humidity bothers me too much. I >was born in Biloxi, Mississippi, so maybe being from the South has >something to do with it. ... I was born and grew up in Pennsylvania, then spent about 20 years in New Hampshire before moving to Florida, going on 8 years ago. The heat and the humidity and the combination of heat and humidity do bother me. I L.O.V.E fall in New England. Cool crips nights and sunny days with temps getting up into the 60s. If there is a benign god (doubtful) that is what heaven will be like. To answer the obvious question: Because my wife is Cuban and sees things differently. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > I L.O.V.E fall in New England. Cool crips nights and sunny days with > temps getting up into the 60s. If there is a benign god (doubtful) > that is what heaven will be like. > > To answer the obvious question: > Because my wife is Cuban and sees things differently. Doesn't HP or Compaq still have offices in the Boston area? Maybe you could get transferred and tell the wife that your Florida position was eliminated. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >Doesn't HP or Compaq still have offices in the Boston area? {name-of-an-unclean-animal} I *DID* work for Digital/DEC in Nasha NH. When we moved to Florida, I did the same job for the same boss in Nasha, but now worked out of an office in Pompano Beach. Then Compaq bought Digital -- and I still did ths same job for the same boss in the same Pompano Beach office. The HP bought Compaq -- I _still_ do the same job for the same boss, but onw from an office in Fort Lauderdale. >Maybe you could get transferred and tell the wife that your >Florida position was eliminated. No way would that work. My wife would just not buy that story. Besides, considering that DIGITAL spend about a year's salary moving us down here, I don't see how I could afford to move back. (My wife worked for Digital then; she transferred to a job down here; I just came along for the ride, so to speak.) SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > I have to admit, neither the heat nor the humidity bothers me too much. I > was born in Biloxi, Mississippi, so maybe being from the South has > something to do with it. No sh.t. Biloxi is one of the few places in the world that are even more humid than here. > I have learned that the male mosquito is strictly > vegetarian and that only the female "bites" (more like sucks). I think you need to do a bit more research. While the male mosquito does not bite, my recollection is that he doesn't eat plants either. He's born, breeds the next batch and dies, all without ever eating. Then again, it might be me that needs to do more study. > The male is important to the fertilization of some plants and flowers. As far as I know, he's only important to the fertilization of female mosquitos. > I'll bet dollars to donuts > this lady works in an air conditioned, bug free office rather than > practicing her "love," however. No bet. Lee >No sh.t. Biloxi is one of the few places in the world that are even more >humid than here. I knew I was in deep trouble when the Air Force (some 20 years after I was born there) transferred me to the Keesler Technical Training Center at (you guessed it) Biloxi, Mississippi and they gave me a "pneumonia shot" before they would send me there. I still can remember marching across the flight line in 100 degree weather with 99.999999+% humidity (it wasn't actually raining, not that you'd notice) with *long sleeve* fatigues that *had* to have the cuffs buttoned. >I think you need to do a bit more research. While the male mosquito does >not bite, my recollection is that he doesn't eat plants either. He's born, >breeds the next batch and dies, all without ever eating. Then again, it >might be me that needs to do more study. I just assumed (always a poor idea) that nectar drinking was the same as being vegetarian. It's not like they eat leaves or anything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito >As far as I know, he's only important to the fertilization of female >mosquitos. I was told that male mosquitoes fertilize various marsh grasses and other flowers when they feed by a National Park Ranger in the Everglades National Park. We all know that Park Rangers know everything about every critter in their National Parks and that they never, ever even bend the truth. So there. In any event, there were no mosquitoes in Hawaii until Capt. Cook brought them there in his ship's water barrels in 1820 or so. I often reflected on that while swatting the things when sitting on my porch in Maui. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net We are the CroMagnon of the future > I just assumed (always a poor idea) that nectar drinking was the same as > being vegetarian. It's not like they eat leaves or anything. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito I'll give you this one. Like you, I assumed what I had been told was correct. My research since suggests that your information is better than mine. It appears that they do drink nectar. I was told that they were born, bred and died without eating. > I was told that male mosquitoes fertilize various marsh grasses and other > flowers when they feed by a National Park Ranger in the Everglades [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > their National Parks and that they never, ever even bend the truth. So > there. Having found myself to be wrong once, I was willing to take your word for it, at least until you said a Park Ranger said it. I suppose, however, that even they can get it right some of the time. Lee > Well, try driving your ATV into a lake... If it floats, it probably won't > sink in a Louisiana swamp... Hell, grits have more substance than the sh.t > that I got stuck in... I'm trying to figure out a way to so just that . . . without risking the ATV. I really want to know whether the tires I put on my Rancher ES will float it or not. The time to find out is not just after I've accidentally driven it into something a bit deeper than intended. > Well, once the permafrost melts in her Yankee veins, she'll change her > tune... You better watch out though, with comments like that, she might > make > the mosquito a protected species... Don't say that too loudly. She might hear you. > Well, Yankees are a non-native species also and they definitely are pests, > so can the park rangers shoot them also? And for the regular hunters, > what > exactly is the bag limit on Yankees? Depends on where they are from. It it's New York or New Jersey, there's no limit. Like hogs, they reproduce faster than we can thin them anyway. I'm not sure what the limit is for Canadians. I'll have to find my "Tourist Season" T shirt and see what it says. >> Since they're good to eat and fun to hunt, I'm not at all interested in >> getting rid of them, at least not more than one or two a year of them. > Hmmm... I didn't think the Yankees were eatable... Some are. The others are male. Lee > I'm trying to figure out a way to so just that Slowly, and in a place where there aren't waves. It should be easy enough to find out what's the maximum height you'd want the water to come to. > I really want to know whether the tires I put on my Rancher ES will > float it or not. There's alway the chance that it will float if the tires are really big (and you're smart enough to do the math), but how upset (no punintended) will you be when it tips over? The problem with mud is traction and drag, not buoyancy. Several years back I watched a good ole Tennessee boy throw mud and water from all four (enormous) tires while failing in an attempt to drive a pick up through 3 feet of water, even though the rocker panels were high and dry. A few minutes later some guy on an ATV came by and drove through just a few feet to the side with no problem. I don't knw how high the carb was, but the guy had his feet up on the front and his a.s wasn't more than a few inches above the water. Of course if he'd found a really deep spot it might have been amusing. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > There's alway the chance that it will float if the tires are really big (and you're > smart enough to do the math), but how upset (no punintended) will you be when it tips > over? Take the tires off the ATV... They're probably different size front and rear, so you'll need to make the measurements on one of the front tires and one of the rear tires... Take a front tire and add weight to it until it is neutrally buoyant... Do the same for a rear tire... Add these two weights together and double it... This is the amount of weight that could be floated by the tires... Of course, this will have the handlebars right at the surface of the water, so maybe you might want to add a fudge factor if the rest of the calculations come out looking good... You need to determine the weight of the ATV without the tires... If you can do it directly, great, otherwise, weigh the ATV with the tires on it and subtract off the weight of the tires... If the weight of the ATV without the tires is greater than the buoyancy weight of the tires calculated above, you have a *chance* of floating the ATV... One thing to remember is that the tires will be positively buoyant and as such, the ATV would try to seek stability by being inverted... One more thing to consider is the weight of the rider... You'll need to add that to the weight of the ATV if you are actually wanting to be able to drive it across the water... > The problem with mud is traction and drag, not buoyancy. We were talking about swamps, in particular Louisiana swamps and some places in the Florida swamps... In such situations, buoyancy is a major consideration... > Several years back I watched a good ole Tennessee boy throw mud > and water from all four (enormous) tires while failing in an attempt to > drive a pick up through 3 feet of water, even though the rocker panels > were high and dry. I saw a video of a guy on a snowmobile drive it across part of a pond / lake... I suspect that the snowmobile drive tract was acting like a paddlewheel and the front skis were keeping him skimming across the water... If he didn't keep up his speed, he would sink, of course... Tires do not necessarily make good skis, so it might be a bit more difficult getting them to do that... > One more thing to consider is the weight of the rider... You'll > need to add that to the weight of the ATV if you are actually wanting to > be > able to drive it across the water... It's pretty certain that the ATV will not float itself and me. I'd be satisfied to know that it would float itself. > We were talking about swamps, in particular Louisiana swamps and some > places > in the Florida swamps... In such situations, buoyancy is a major > consideration... Not so much in terms of movement, but certainly in terms of recovery. > I saw a video of a guy on a snowmobile drive it across part of a pond / > lake... I suspect that the snowmobile drive tract was acting like a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > them > to do that... Go fast enough and it would work. Ever see a Jesus lizard run across a pond? Lee > There's alway the chance that it will float if the tires are really big > (and you're smart enough to do the math), but how upset (no punintended) > will you be when it tips over? Not as upset as I'd be if it sunk. My previous ATV, a three wheel Honda 185, with the tires I had on it, would, in fact, float if I got off it. In fact, it would float high enough to keep the air intake out of the water. I found this out in relatively shallow water in the Everglades, with the support of a dozen people and a couple of swam buggies. Had it not floated, we could have retrieved it and, even if we didn't, I only paid $300 for it. I no longer have access to the support I had back then and I paid closer to $7,000 for the current ATV. I would survive its loss, but I'd certainly feel it. > The problem with mud is traction and drag, not buoyancy. Several years > back I watched a good ole Tennessee boy throw mud and water from all four [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > above the water. Of course if he'd found a really deep spot it might have > been amusing. Correct on all points, but weight is a factor in how quickly the ATV will sink to a level where drag overcomes traction. Those that go fast, have the right idea. Those that go slow and they try to accelerate out of trouble, often fail. On ATVs, the carborator is about the middle of the vehicle, but that's not the critical component. The air intake for the carborator is usually above the fuel tank. Custom snorkels are available that will move the intake even higher. Most ATVs will run as long as the air intake can be kept free of water. Under the right circumstances, it can actually be below the surface of the water as long as the forward motion of the vehicle channels water away from it. If you stop, however, you're toast. The exhaust is also important, but in a different way. As long as the motor is under load, the exhaust will keep itself clear. If you back down, however, the exhaust can suck water right into the engine, something that's likely to do some serious damage. Lee >> I can see a wild hog hunt coming up, particularly if we're talking in the >> Ocala National Forest. The forest has more miles of open ATV trails than [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >population base... Even if it was, they way they reproduce, they'll be back >up to numbers fairly quickly... Getting rid of them will not be that easy... You talkin bout Yankees or wild hogs ? >> They will always remain invasice no marrer how long they are here, I atill >> say kill em all. I am not a fan of anything non native being let run amuck [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > interesting game... Bambi might taste better, but Scrofa can make for a more > 'interesting' day... Boars also chase us hikers when you stumble on them. I had a 300 foot run with no cover a few months back. They also destroy the forest floor uprooting saplings. Jim Jim, I guess you are no fan of your ansestors as well. You forgot to mention yourself and all other human beings that live in the Americas. We are all invasive! I guess we should all be killed too, even american indians, according to you, just so we will not run amok. > Jim, I guess you are no fan of your ansestors as well. You forgot to > mention yourself and all other human beings that live in the Americas. > We are all invasive! > I guess we should all be killed too, even american indians, according > to you, just so we will not run amok. Old argument not a good one at that. I am partial Aropaho and I will admit man has only been here a short while. I do not target natural migrating creatures since that is life, But rather transplanted life either by some dumb a.s letting something loose or it escaping. This also applies to states that have introduced fish and fowl just to make a buck. Jim > Jim, I guess you are no fan of your ansestors as well. You forgot to > mention yourself and all other human beings that live in the Americas. > We are all invasive! > I guess we should all be killed too, even american indians, according > to you, just so we will not run amok. Just think how nice North America would be if all Homo sapiens had been exterminated as they landed. > Just think how nice North America would be if all Homo sapiens had been > exterminated as they landed. If North America had been left an unspoiled, pristine wilderness it would now be full of highrise beachfront hotels and fat, obnoxious European tourists. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Jim, I guess you are no fan of your ansestors as well. You forgot to > mention yourself and all other human beings that live in the Americas. > We are all invasive! I guess we should all be killed too, even american > indians, according to you, just so we will not run amok. Please, that's American Indians and we're natives, thank you very much. Lee > > Hi Jim, > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jim If you're in NC, you probably feel the same way about Florida natives. :-) >> > Hi Jim, >> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > If you're in NC, you probably feel the same way about Florida natives. :-) Theres Florida natives??? Jim > Hi Jim, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > difference now. Over the last ten years, they have gone from invasive > to indigenous. I don't believe your definition of indigenous matches mine. It would be interesting to know whether a deliberate program of killing lionfish would have a significant long term impact on them. Such a program had a pretty serious impact on shark populations. Even without a deliberate program to exterminate them, we did a pretty thorough job on Queen Conch and Hog Fish. Lee >> Hi Jim, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I don't believe your definition of indigenous matches mine. "The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48" Indigenous In*dig"e*nous, a. L. indigenus, indigena, fr. OL. indu (fr. in in) + the root of L. gignere to beget, bear. See In, and Gender. 1913 Webster 1. Native; produced, growing, or living, naturally in a country or climate; not exotic; not imported. 1913 Webster > It would be interesting to know whether a deliberate program of killing > lionfish would have a significant long term impact on them. Such a program [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Lee That is what I believe. I do not know a thing about thier breeding habbits to know for sure. Jim >>It would be interesting to know whether a deliberate program of killing >>lionfish would have a significant long term impact on them. Such a program [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That is what I believe. I do not know a thing about thier breeding habbits > to know for sure. How do you kill a lionfish as a diver? These are smart guys. They are known to hunt in groups, cornering their bait with their spines. I know of one incident near Carless Reef in the Red Sea, when they attacked divers in the same way, to scare them away. I have seen them sometimes having right-of-way disputes with blue-spotted rays. Lionfisch always won. Matthias >>> I did contact the NCMF and also NOAA plus a few others with the >>> location depth and also the size of the lionfish. I now have it in a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> I don't believe your definition of indigenous matches mine. >1. Native; produced, growing, or living, naturally in a > country or climate; not exotic; not imported. > 1913 Webster Right, which does not apply to lionfish that are decidedly not naturally in US coastal Atlantic waters. Lee Boy, has this become a circus. I was just looking for other collectors of tropical fish that get caught in the gulf stream and are carried north where they grow and die, usually November is their death month. But....since everyone on here wants to talk about other things, I will leave my last posting. First of all, Paula Whitfield is a scientist and diver who was chosen by NOAA to study and document the lionfish in our waters, their breeding patterns and their impact on the ecosystem off shore of the atlantic seaboard. There is no question in my mind that she has the facts in this matter, not you guys, not me. She is easy to reach, and she does return emails. Don't bicker about this stuff on here, ask her directly! She has been following these guys for almost ten years now. Just go to the NOAA website, you will find the facts you are looking for. And as far as this "indigenous" thing goes. Nothing is really indigenous. Take Hawaii for example. When the europeans arrived, they talked about the "native people" and the "native follage and animals" for example. Hawaii came out of the ocean recently, in geologic terms, everything on the island was introduced later, either by nature or by earlier polonesians. It is all a matter of perspective and time. Look at the range of lionfish. The Red Sea, all the way over to southern Japan. They had to start somewhere! If you believe in creation or evolution, they had to start in one place. And then spread later. Anyway, if anyone reading this is a collector, please email me directly. Thanks. I wash my hands of this lot and postings. >Boy, has this become a circus. I was just looking for other collectors >of tropical fish that get caught in the gulf stream and are carried [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Anyway, if anyone reading this is a collector, please email me >directly. Thanks. I wash my hands of this lot and postings. bye >>Hi all, >>Does anyone out there collect tropical strays north of Florida? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > at 800-682-2632 and tell them where you caught. Then you need to kill it - > lionfish are an invasive predator that does not belong off the NC coast. Jim, seems I saw a pair of them on either the Caribsea or the Papoose shipwrecks last summer. I think I have a picture of them. Did not know their status though. Andy SignatureI have never met a liberal street cop. > Jim, seems I saw a pair of them on either the Caribsea or the Papoose > shipwrecks last summer. I think I have a picture of them. Did not know > their status though. > > Andy They are bad news for sure. With no natural predetors they can only expand. Although I suspect NC is not ever going to be an established home due to water temps. Its been a while since I had a tank up but I think they get sick easy at lower water temps. Jim >>>Hi all, >>>Does anyone out there collect tropical strays north of Florida? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > shipwrecks last summer. I think I have a picture of them. Did not know > their status though. Andy, I saw one on the Caribsea in Summer of 2004. Some other friends have mentioned they have seen them also. I do know the NCMF wanted reports when they first started appearing off NC around 2001, but maybe not now. I still say if you can kill it, do so. They will devastate the smaller game fish (grouper, puppy drum, snapper) soon enough. Jim Frei >>>>Hi all, >>>>Does anyone out there collect tropical strays north of Florida? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Jim Frei We dove the Papoose or Caribsea one day and the Spar and Atlas the next. Went back and looked on my logbook. It was actually July 10, 2005 and was either on the Atlas Tanker or the Spar can't remember which. Send me a valid email address and I will email the pic to you. Andy SignatureI have never met a liberal street cop. |
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