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Scuba Forum / General / January 2006

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Let's tap that tank of cold

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ben bradlee - 30 Dec 2005 11:28 GMT
A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does the
cold come from?  The tank and air in the tank are 70 degrees, the air in the
room is 70 degrees.  Where is the cold being stored?  If cold is stored, why
can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.
Lee Bell - 30 Dec 2005 12:29 GMT
>A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> why
> can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.

There's no such thing as cold.  It's simply the absence of heat.  When you
release the stored heat, cold is what is left.

Lee
Popeye - 30 Dec 2005 13:02 GMT
>A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> why
> can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.

 The cold was already there, Skippy.
dazed and confuzzed - 30 Dec 2005 13:24 GMT
> A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does the
> cold come from?  The tank and air in the tank are 70 degrees, the air in the
> room is 70 degrees.  Where is the cold being stored?  If cold is stored, why
> can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.

Track the BTU's from ambient, to compressed, to ambient. You'll see.

Signature

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3

Dennis (Icarus) - 30 Dec 2005 14:49 GMT
> > A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> > open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >
> Track the BTU's from ambient, to compressed, to ambient. You'll see.

And can BTUs be used to buy Marine Corps dollars?
If not, then I doubt ben would have any interest in them.

Dennis
Cam - 30 Dec 2005 13:56 GMT
> A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does the
> cold come from?  The tank and air in the tank are 70 degrees, the air in the
> room is 70 degrees.  Where is the cold being stored?  If cold is stored, why
> can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.

Google Charles's Law or if you really want to know about hot air read
the gun threads.

Cam
Popeye - 30 Dec 2005 14:42 GMT
>> A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When
>> you
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Google Charles's Law or if you really want to know about hot air read
> the gun threads.

 Don't be harsh, John's doing the best he can.
Matthias Voss - 30 Dec 2005 14:10 GMT
> A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does the
> cold come from?

From inside.

 The tank and air in the tank are 70 degrees, the air in the
> room is 70 degrees.  Where is the cold being stored?  

Inside the tank ..

If cold is stored, why
> can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.

Of course you can. All you need is to find a way to stick
your finger into the open yet pressurized bottle.

Matthias
Chris Guynn - 30 Dec 2005 14:55 GMT
> A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does the
> cold come from?  The tank and air in the tank are 70 degrees, the air in the
> room is 70 degrees.  Where is the cold being stored?  If cold is stored, why
> can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.

PV=nRT... ideally
mike gray - 30 Dec 2005 16:24 GMT
>  
> A filled scuba cylinder sits at room temperature, say 70 degrees. When you
> open the valve air escapes and the cylinder begins to cool.  Where does the
> cold come from?  The tank and air in the tank are 70 degrees, the air in the
> room is 70 degrees.  Where is the cold being stored?  If cold is stored, why
> can't you feel it?  Let's search hot air to get cold facts.

As you fill the tank, all those little bitty atoms of N and O
increase in number and get forced closer together by the rising
pressure, and increasingly bump into each other and the tank
walls. That's heat.

When it sits for a while, all those little bitty atoms of N and
O calm down, the bumping and jostling is reduced to just what's
caused by ambient. That's stasis.

As you empty the tank, all those little bitty atoms of N and O
decrease in number and get spread further apart as the pressure
drops, and there's less and less of them to bump into each other
and the tank walls. That's cold.

Conversely, as ambient temperature increases from absolute zero,
the same number of those little suckers get all stirred up and
bump and jostle more. That's pressure.

So, Pressure = Little Suckers X Temperature, or same thing,
Temperature = Pressure / Little Suckers.

This was discovered and proven by loading 50 divers and
snorkelers on a Key Largo cattle boat.
Steve - 30 Dec 2005 23:12 GMT
> As you fill the tank, all those little bitty atoms of N and O

Of all the people here, I'd probably have figured you as the least likely one to
refer to atoms of N and O. Is it just because you thought he needed a dumbed down
version?

Signature

Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

Lee Bell - 30 Dec 2005 23:40 GMT
>> As you fill the tank, all those little bitty atoms of N and O
>
> Of all the people here, I'd probably have figured you as the least likely
> one to refer to atoms of N and O. Is it just because you thought he needed
> a dumbed down version?

Just because those atoms combine to form N2 and O2 molecules does not make
his statement about those little N and O atoms incorrect.

Oh, no !!  They're gay and lesbian atoms chosing to pair up with others of
their same kind.

I've been breathing gay atoms all these years.  Talk about oral sex.

Lee
jabadoodle - 31 Dec 2005 05:21 GMT
"Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:ixjtf.31996

> Oh, no !!  They're gay and lesbian atoms chosing to pair up with others of
> their same kind.
>
> I've been breathing gay atoms all these years.  Talk about oral sex.

Funny!

Has the family values crowd heard of this?  Maybe instead
of bonding we should make a law that atoms can only have "unions"
Steve - 02 Jan 2006 06:13 GMT
> Just because those atoms combine to form N2 and O2 molecules does not make
> his statement about those little N and O atoms incorrect.

Either way it was a good explanation that even Kenny may have understood. I just
figured that Mike has a good understanding of the science, and I'd have expected him
to say molecules instead of atoms.

Signature

Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

 
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