 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeArticlesDiving DestinationsLearning Scuba DivingMarine LifeMiscellaneousDiscussion GroupsGeneralScuba EquipmentScuba LocationsAustralian ScubaUK ScubaDirectoryScuba Clubs |
Scuba Forum / General / December 2005Dive flags
Like many people, I was treated to visual coverage of the recent plane crash off Miami. Before I changed channels, I saw a number of divers and boats off the breakwater outside Miami. But I saw no dive flags, at least none that were at all prominently displayed. I had the sound off so I may have missed if they covered this verbally, but it was something I thought pretty strange, and I actually started looking for them. I switched between CNN and MSNBC and didn't see any. Is there an exemption or something if you are involved in search and rescue or some official group? I thought anytime a diver went down the diver down flag was supposed to go up. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net Alone we can just aspire to be dumb, but together we can be truly stupid > Like many people, I was treated to visual coverage of the recent plane > crash off Miami. Before I changed channels, I saw a number of divers and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net > Alone we can just aspire to be dumb, but together we can be truly stupid Government operations such as the FAA do not have to post anything. They can "claim" an area and tell you, the public Joe, that you need to keep away. A dive flag is more or less for commercial / personal reasons, though of course the gov understands it and the purpose of it. But in the case of a crash into the ocean such as this one, dive flags are not needed. The area has already been set up as 'an arena' for an accident scene. And if they decide that it isn't an accident, then it's a crime scene. Either way, dive flags are not needed. "Dive Police" can do whatever they wish. Most dive rescue /recovery teams do not set up dive flags because they 'secure the area' first. The recovery operation that I was involved in the BVI's didn't have flags at all. Happy Holidays to you Galen !!!!!!!!!! Hugssssssss, Salty >Government operations such as the FAA do not have to post anything. >They can "claim" an area and tell you, the public Joe, that you need [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Happy Holidays to you Galen !!!!!!!!!! Hugssssssss, Salty Thanks. And thanks for the reply too. As Johnny Carson would have said: "I did not know that." Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net Alone we can just aspire to be dumb, but together we can be truly stupid >Like many people, I was treated to visual coverage of the recent plane >crash off Miami. Before I changed channels, I saw a number of divers and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net >Alone we can just aspire to be dumb, but together we can be truly stupid Let's assume for the moment you are not a troll. I don't think Wolf Blizter, in his zeal to sensationalize the crash and to imply that the seaplanes were not airworthy by virtue of there being stress cracks in the wings, had the time and presence of mind to comment on dive flags being flown or the absence thereof. Dive flags are flown to indicate to vessels _not_immediately_involved_ in dive operations that there are dive operations or vessels involved in dive operations with divers down and that other vessels should adjust course and stay clear. Since all the vessels involved in the recovery operation were under the immediate control of the USCG, Miami PD, Ocean Rescue or other disciplined authorities and were immediately involved in dive operations themselves I am sure flags were not an issue. Any other vessel approaching the area would have been warded off by the USCG helicopters flying in the area or any number of other patrol boats maintaining the cordon around the crash site. This would have included boats carrying CNN or MSNBC cameras. :) > On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:49:43 -0500, Galen Hekhuis > Let's assume for the moment you are not a troll. Don't assume that at all. To assume that makes an a.s out of you. Galen posts what he knows, what he thinks, and he asks the questions that he desires. He does so on a decent level for all of it. When you cut at him for being a troll, you piss me off. He isn't a troll. He's one of the nicest ppl here. > I don't think Wolf Blizter, in his zeal to sensationalize the crash > and to imply that the seaplanes were not airworthy by virtue of there > being stress cracks in the wings, had the time and presence of mind to > comment on dive flags being flown or the absence thereof. No... but if Wolf implied that they weren't airworthy because of stress cracks, then hey, he said what we are all now hearing about planes like that one. Planes like that are 60 years old and that they don't have "the time or money" to check over. I guess if you book on a plane that old, you best have your will made out. >Let's assume for the moment you are not a troll. Why? >I don't think Wolf Blizter, in his zeal to sensationalize the crash >and to imply that the seaplanes were not airworthy by virtue of there >being stress cracks in the wings, had the time and presence of mind to >comment on dive flags being flown or the absence thereof. I didn't notice that, but like I say, I had the sound off. I'm no A&P type, but I think I might be a bit concerned myself about stress cracks in a 58 year old airframe. I know some older aircraft can be just dandy, and that chronological age need not be a defect. >Dive flags are flown to indicate to vessels _not_immediately_involved_ >in dive operations that there are dive operations or vessels involved [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >patrol boats maintaining the cordon around the crash site. This would >have included boats carrying CNN or MSNBC cameras. :) I didn't know that about dive flags. All the regs, rules, whatever seemed to imply that they applied to everybody, I didn't know of these exceptions. Thanks. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net Alone we can just aspire to be dumb, but together we can be truly stupid My apologies to you Galen for implying you might be a troll. It seemed a trollish question and when I went to the CNN site to look at the video's I stumbled on Wolf's interview of the NTSB investigator and got thoroughly pissed off. Some of that overflowed into my post. The consensus of opinion by airframe designers (Boeing and McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed engineer's I have talked to, as well as some pilots) is that the life expectancy of a "properly maintained" airframe is unlimited. Whether that should entail x-rays and penetrant tests on wing spars depends on who you talk to. Wolf was fishing for speculation from the investigator and punching up the story, trying to make it look like the airline was at fault. At this stage of the investigation that would be highly speculative. There are plenty of 50+ year old airframes still flying reliably. Corrosion on seaplanes would be a bigger factor affecting service life than stress, I would think. When a component part is worn out, it's replaced, this also includes spars and skins. Whether Chaulk's safety record was due to good maintenance practices or pure dumb luck remains to be determined. >My apologies to you Galen for implying you might be a troll. It seemed >a trollish question and when I went to the CNN site to look at the >video's I stumbled on Wolf's interview of the NTSB investigator and >got thoroughly pissed off. Some of that overflowed into my post. No sweat. My brother is a pilot. He's flying some corporate jet now, but he used to fly stuff for the Marines before he retired. I'm not a real pilot, but I used to fly hang gliders. I usually turn the sound off the TV, but especially when they talk about flying. I just know they are going to screw it up. So I don't listen. (I do that with MTV sometimes too. I turn it on with the sound off. Then I turn on some classical station. It doesn't always sync, but when it does it is worth it.) >The consensus of opinion by airframe designers (Boeing and McDonnell >Douglas and Lockheed engineer's I have talked to, as well as some [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >includes spars and skins. Whether Chaulk's safety record was due to >good maintenance practices or pure dumb luck remains to be determined. My general rule of thumb comes from my brother. He tells me that of course pilots are keenly interested in safety; after all, they do sit in the front and whatever happens will probably happen to them first. Granted, there are some loonies and risk-takers out there, and there is some pressure from various airlines, but in general if a pilot is willing to fly the thing personally there is a pretty good chance the aircraft is okay, regardless of the recommended testing. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net Alone we can just aspire to be dumb, but together we can be truly stupid > No sweat. My brother is a pilot. He's flying some corporate jet now, but > he used to fly stuff for the Marines before he retired. I'm not a real > pilot, but I used to fly hang gliders. Me too. Never fly higher than you are willing to fall. We dont wear "down" jackets (down is not a word in the hang gliders vocabulary), but thermal underwear. I wrecked two of them. >Me too. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I wrecked two of them. I got a "bronze" safe pilot award for flying over 100 consecutive times without winding up in a hospital. It's kind of a weird award when you think about it. They have it in silver and gold too for the really good pilots. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA ghekhuis@earthlink.net Alone we can just aspire to be dumb, but together we can be truly stupid > >Me too. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > think about it. They have it in silver and gold too for the really good > pilots. 3rd flight, I broke the keel with my helmet after swinging through the control bar. $350 in 1976 dollars. 50th flight, I got it into a whip stall (I hear the new wings wont do that) and did about 75 feet at a 45 degree angle straight into the deck. That one hurt. > Let's assume for the moment you are not a troll. I take it your new here. :-) |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.