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Scuba Forum / General / December 2005Scubapro S600/R380/Mark 20 Coldwater performance
I have been offered the above rig second hand. Can anyone give me some information of their experiences with servicing and most importantly for me, a predominantly cold water UK diver, the cold water performance? > I have been offered the above rig second hand. Can anyone give me some > information of their experiences with servicing and most importantly > for me, a predominantly cold water UK diver, the cold water performance? Why anyone from the UK would own anything other than APEKS is a mystery. > Why anyone from the UK would own anything other than APEKS is a mystery. Why anyone would use a different reg for cold or deep is a mystery, too.  Signature"A bunch of us went down to Gettysburg. Some of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you'll never understand." --Unknown Infantryman > > Why anyone from the UK would own anything other than APEKS is a mystery. > > Why anyone would use a different reg for cold or deep is a mystery, too. Sales pitch? Stupidity? How was the trip? Go ahead, make them all jealous. Unless, of course, Agamemnon was ravaged by hurricane... > Sales pitch? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Unless, of course, Agamemnon was ravaged by hurricane... It was great. Brian was there, along with fellow Edmondton types. They did some deep stuff, and we all did cold stuff. Not a posieden in the bunch, they were all real divers. Eagles. The Topline. The Chaudiere is coming along nicely. Signature"A bunch of us went down to Gettysburg. Some of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you'll never understand." --Unknown Infantryman > > Sales pitch? > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Eagles. The Topline. The Chaudiere is coming along nicely. I wouldnt trade a single day at Agamemnon for a month of Florida diving. > I wouldnt trade a single day at Agamemnon for a month of Florida diving. . . . and the experience you have with Florida diving is? Lee > > I wouldnt trade a single day at Agamemnon for a month of Florida diving. > . . . and the experience you have with Florida diving is? A significant amount more than your experience with PNW diving. 3 days 5 years ago. Before that, two years of carribean diving every weekend, ending with a two month trip on a 62 foot Swan. >> > I wouldnt trade a single day at Agamemnon for a month of Florida >> > diving. > >> . . . and the experience you have with Florida diving is? > > A significant amount more than your experience with PNW diving. Hence my failure to judge. > 3 days 5 years ago. You figure that gives you a good basis for comparison? > Before that, two years of carribean diving every weekend, ending with a > two > month trip on a 62 foot Swan. Florida? Lee By the way, did you get the email I sent you? It keeps coming back as undeliverable. Nothing recently. You know to remove the 2 from the address below to get my correct one, right? Lee Signature_________________ Lee's Rule In any heated discussion, he or she who first resorts to name calling has run out of meaningful dialog and may be presumed to have lost the point. > > By the way, did you get the email I sent you? It keeps coming back as > undeliverable. > Nothing recently. You know to remove the 2 from the address below to get my > correct one, right? Yes, I'm using the correct addy. Weird. I sent two which have been attempting delivery for two days. I rewrote and followed up with another, that you should have had by now. Are ya sure you didn't add me to your email kf? hee hee > Yes, I'm using the correct addy. Weird. I sent two which have been > attempting delivery for two days. I rewrote and followed up with another, > that you should have had by now. Are ya sure you didn't add me to your > email kf? hee hee I am now. Send it to my old address, leebell@ix.netcom.com. It's still active for now. Lee > > Yes, I'm using the correct addy. Weird. I sent two which have been > > attempting delivery for two days. I rewrote and followed up with another, > > that you should have had by now. Are ya sure you didn't add me to your > > email kf? hee hee > > I am now. LOL Send it to my old address, leebell@ix.netcom.com. It's still > active for now. OK, resending soon. >>I wouldnt trade a single day at Agamemnon for a month of Florida diving. > > . . . and the experience you have with Florida diving is? It ain't bad, but I'm with Scott on this one. I haven't dove the PNW but even with bad viz, I prefer cold waters of the Pacific. >>>I wouldnt trade a single day at Agamemnon for a month of Florida diving. >> >> . . . and the experience you have with Florida diving is? > > It ain't bad, but I'm with Scott on this one. I haven't dove the PNW but > even with bad viz, I prefer cold waters of the Pacific. Assuming you mean Southern California waters, I must ask why? Sure, I prefer it too on any average day since it only costs me a tank of gas, an airfill, and parking meter change versus a plane ticket and 5-hour-plus-airport-delay trip to Florida, but cost and time aside, Florida has 1) clearer water, 2) warmer water, 3) greater biodiversity, 4) coral, and 5) prettier colors. What could you possibly prefer about cold waters of the Pacific unless you have a sea urchin and/or drysuit fetish? > Assuming you mean Southern California waters, I must ask why? Sure, I > prefer it too on any average day since it only costs me a tank of gas, an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and 5) prettier colors. What could you possibly prefer about cold waters of > the Pacific unless you have a sea urchin and/or drysuit fetish? Some of it may be convenience. I certainly enjoy being able to dive locally without worrying about a boat schedule, tide table, random divers at a resort or on a boat, etc. I'm bothered by neither low viz nor cold water. I'm not certain that #3 is true, but even if it is quantitatively, I don't find it so qualitatively. Coral is cool, but so are gorgonians, sponges, kelp... As for prettier colors, well, I've found that my least favorite part of SoCal is palm trees. I much prefer the muted tones of the native plant life on land, and the same seems to apply underwater. The colors in the tropics are brilliant, but after a while they seem garish and fake. There are amazing things both places, but I'm pretty fond of the Pacific. > Some of it may be convenience. I certainly enjoy being able to dive > locally without worrying about a boat schedule, tide table, random divers > at a resort or on a boat, etc. Local diving can certainly vary as well. There's no doubt that you can't dive under rough conditions. > I'm bothered by neither low viz nor cold water. I'm not certain that #3 is > true, but even if it is quantitatively, I don't find it so qualitatively. > Coral is cool, but so are gorgonians, sponges, kelp... Soft corals and sponges are just as plentiful on warm water reefs. No kelp, but a host of tropical fish species makes up for it. > As for prettier colors, well, I've found that my least favorite part of > SoCal is palm trees. I much prefer the muted tones of the native plant > life on land, and the same seems to apply underwater. The colors in the > tropics are brilliant, but after a while they seem garish and fake. I totally agree with you that palm trees suck. Bougainvillea rules. > There are amazing things both places, but I'm pretty fond of the Pacific. >>Some of it may be convenience. I certainly enjoy being able to dive >>locally without worrying about a boat schedule, tide table, random divers >>at a resort or on a boat, etc. > > Local diving can certainly vary as well. There's no doubt that you can't > dive under rough conditions. The canyon at La Jolla Shores is protected for the most part. The surf can be up at the marine room and by the pier, but in between, virtually nothing There were 12 foot sets out at Windansea a month ago and we just walked in at Vallecitos Street. >>I'm bothered by neither low viz nor cold water. I'm not certain that #3 is >>true, but even if it is quantitatively, I don't find it so qualitatively. >>Coral is cool, but so are gorgonians, sponges, kelp... > > Soft corals and sponges are just as plentiful on warm water reefs. No > kelp, but a host of tropical fish species makes up for it. There are a host of fish species here. Senorita, sardines in huge schools, topsmelt, sheephead, a zillion rockfish, scorpionfish, kelpfish, painted greenlings, lizardfish, yellowtail, sarcastic fringehead, rubberlip surfperch, not to mention leopard, soupfin and great white sharks (two spotted by divers this summer off of La Jolla.) And, of course, the dreaded garibaldi. >>As for prettier colors, well, I've found that my least favorite part of >>SoCal is palm trees. I much prefer the muted tones of the native plant >>life on land, and the same seems to apply underwater. The colors in the >>tropics are brilliant, but after a while they seem garish and fake. > > I totally agree with you that palm trees suck. Bougainvillea rules. Yup. All said and done,the Pacific just plain interests me more. But I'll happily pass on the northeast. > Yup. > > All said and done,the Pacific just plain interests me more. But I'll > happily pass on the northeast. Seems our side of the Atlantic resembles more your side of Pacific. Except for Garibaldi, GW, GO, and sea lions. Do you have walls of yellow/purple crustaceae as well? Matthias > Do you have walls of yellow/purple crustaceae as well? There are lots of deep yellows, reds and purples, but I'm not sure what you mean by walls of crustacea. On one night dive I saw a wall covered with red brittle stars, all with an arm or two sticking straight out from the wall to grab stuff from the current flowing by. If you browse http://week.divebums.com/ you will get a good sense of what it's like. Those pictures are mostly taken in SoCal. >> Do you have walls of yellow/purple crustaceae as well? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If you browse http://week.divebums.com/ you will get a good sense of what > it's like. Those pictures are mostly taken in SoCal. www.diver.net/bbs often displays beautiful pix within the trip reports, often almost beautiful enough to make me want to drive all the way out to the coast until I remind myself that I'm headed to a warm-water locale soon enough. 26 more days. The drysuit can stay dry. We have lots of yellowish sea fans, which aren't crustaceans, and purple hydrocoral, which isn't a crustacean. Also, local wrecks like the Ruby E are covered in strawberry anemones (corynactis) but they're likewise not crustaceans. Methinks Matthias drops too much acid before diving if he imagines walls of yellow lobsters and purple crabs. Got one page too far, what I meant was Zoontidea.. Matthias >>>Do you have walls of yellow/purple crustaceae as well? >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > crustaceans. Methinks Matthias drops too much acid before diving if he > imagines walls of yellow lobsters and purple crabs. >>>Do you have walls of yellow/purple crustaceae as well? >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > crustaceans. Methinks Matthias drops too much acid before diving if he > imagines walls of yellow lobsters and purple crabs. That's why it's called a dive trip... SignatureMichael Wolf ----- Cthulhu For President. Why settle for the lesser evil? remove stopspam to reply > Methinks Matthias drops too much acid before diving if he > imagines walls of yellow lobsters and purple crabs. The thought had occurred to me, too, but I didn't want to disturb his buzz. >> Do you have walls of yellow/purple crustaceae as well? > > There are lots of deep yellows, reds and purples, but I'm not sure what > you mean by walls of crustacea. Those little anemones covering mostly shadowed walls. Matthias > >> Do you have walls of yellow/purple crustaceae as well? > > > > There are lots of deep yellows, reds and purples, but I'm not sure what > > you mean by walls of crustacea. > > Those little anemones covering mostly shadowed walls. Tons of them out here. We have plumose anemonae that are 4 feet tall, in white, orange and yellow, the tropics have nothing we dont, except but warm water. http://www.boydski.com/diving/photos/pugetsoundfish.htm Wade around a little in Scott's site, great pics. > We have plumose anemonae that are 4 feet tall, in white, orange and > yellow, > the tropics have nothing we dont, except but warm water. Keep telling yourself that and you'll feel better about not being able to afford plane tickets anywhere. A few shots of tequila might help. > http://www.boydski.com/diving/photos/pugetsoundfish.htm > > Wade around a little in Scott's site, great pics. Sure, if you like pics of fish that all look the same as the rocks they're sitting on. How you can possibly compare that to the kaleidoscope of colors found in the tropics is simply bizarre. > There are a host of fish species here. Senorita, sardines in huge > schools, topsmelt, sheephead, a zillion rockfish, scorpionfish, kelpfish, > painted greenlings, lizardfish, yellowtail, sarcastic fringehead, > rubberlip surfperch, not to mention leopard, soupfin and great white > sharks (two spotted by divers this summer off of La Jolla.) And, of > course, the dreaded garibaldi. Yup. We even have one butterflyfish at Catalina, colorful gobies and white gobies, bat rays, horn and angel sharks, and I saw a guitarfish in the San Benitos. Fine and dandy. Good bang for the buck. But it still ain't Florida. Me, I like garish and fake. Why else are breast implants and makeup so popular? When Florida fish start getting breast implants, I'll have to move there. >>>As for prettier colors, well, I've found that my least favorite part of >>>SoCal is palm trees. I much prefer the muted tones of the native plant >>>life on land, and the same seems to apply underwater. The colors in the >>>tropics are brilliant, but after a while they seem garish and fake. >>Why anyone from the UK would own anything other than APEKS is a mystery. > > Why anyone would use a different reg for cold or deep is a mystery, too. No. There is Poseidon. The old Apeks suffer in longterm use from the fact that the high pressure seat is part of the housing. A bit of abrasion, like from AL2SIO3 in aluminium bottles, can kill the first stage. Some second stagea seem to suffer from poor mold forms. Remaining dents may cause the flush button to stick in flushing mode. Though a sharp knife wil help here. Matthias > >>Why anyone from the UK would own anything other than APEKS is a mystery. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > flushing mode. > Though a sharp knife wil help here. I have had both, and now own only APEKS. The Poseidons were no where near as reliable, and hideously expensive, especially parts. Poseidon has a couple new regs out that are very interesting, however. >>The old Apeks suffer in longterm use from the fact that the >>high pressure seat is part of the housing. A bit of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I have had both, and now own only APEKS. I use both. Especially the old, first, symmetrically shaped version of the balanced first stage, because I found its performance till now without par. > The Poseidons were no where near as reliable, and hideously expensive, > especially parts. Well, sort of. But they do overnight delivery. > Poseidon has a couple new regs out that are very interesting, however. Seeing the Xtreme , with it's simplicity and straightforwardness, makes you wonder why they, or anyone, did not use this design from the beginning. And its second stage does not induce freeflows. Matthias > And its second stage does not induce freeflows. Of course not. [snicker] Yer protestin' too much, wee one. Signature"A bunch of us went down to Gettysburg. Some of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you'll never understand." --Unknown Infantryman >>And its second stage does not induce freeflows. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yer protestin' too much, wee one. ;-) We know it has a tendancy for blow by when supply pressure drops below 30 bars. With the extreme first stage, I do not have enough experience to confirm or deny that. All I can say that the pilot valve second stages go extremely well with Apeks firsts, too. Matthias > I have had both, and now own only APEKS. > > The Poseidons were no where near as reliable, and hideously expensive, > especially parts. > > Poseidon has a couple new regs out that are very interesting, however. I have dove the Odin for years. Taken it everywhere (except Florida. Used the Sherwood Maximus there). I dive LI, NY wreck stuff. Water temp can drop to low 40's. Surface temp below freezing. Poseidon worked wonderful. I never had a reliability problem with it. But I do agree, that pilot valve can cost ya! Service cost is more than average. It is a workhorse staple up here. I know someone that has used the Poseidon for years and has switched over to Apeks 100's. I asked him the difference (since he has dove both to close to 300'), and he says there really isn't much (he maintains both kits himself) except servicing. I bought a Zeagle ZX50 and DS4 (environmentally sealed rebadged Apeks 50) and will be integrating it into my kit this coming dive season. >> I have had both, and now own only APEKS. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > wonderful. I never had a reliability problem with it. But I do agree, > that pilot valve can cost ya! Only if you leave it at "minus" ;-) Matthias > No. There is Poseidon. Stroke alert. Signature"A bunch of us went down to Gettysburg. Some of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you'll never understand." --Unknown Infantryman > > No. There is Poseidon. > > Stroke alert. Knock it off, Matthias is far from a stroke. > > > No. There is Poseidon. > > > > Stroke alert. > > Knock it off, Matthias is far from a stroke. If he advocates Poseidon, he's a stroke. Signature"A bunch of us went down to Gettysburg. Some of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you'll never understand." --Unknown Infantryman > > > > No. There is Poseidon. > > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If he advocates Poseidon, he's a stroke. Poseidons are on the ANU list. Does that make the US Navy divers strokes? >>>>No. There is Poseidon. >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If he advocates Poseidon, he's a stroke. Have you ever had the "pleasure" to look inside a Scubapro XS 650 second stage? Watch out for the membrane center! As long as it's there ;-). Better hurry.. Matthias >>No. There is Poseidon. > > Stroke alert. Only when you try to swap Jetstream or Xtremesecond stages underwater and pressurize. Or when you store your stages so that sedimentation gets incrusted in the mechanism. Matthias How cold? how deep? I dive north N.J. with that set up around 45F with no ill affects. If you can get service on it. I'd go for it. John807 >I have been offered the above rig second hand. Can anyone give me some > information of their experiences with servicing and most importantly > for me, a predominantly cold water UK diver, the cold water performance? > How cold? how deep? I dive north N.J. with that set up around 45F with no > ill affects. If you can get service on it. I'd go for it. One too many ifs. Matthias >> How cold? how deep? I dive north N.J. with that set up around 45F with no >> ill affects. If you can get service on it. I'd go for it. >> > One too many ifs. > Matthias You think he'll have problems getting service on Scuba Pro equipment? Lee >>>How cold? how deep? I dive north N.J. with that set up around 45F with no >>>ill affects. If you can get service on it. I'd go for it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You think he'll have problems getting service on Scuba Pro equipment? No. That is exactly the problem. Matthias |
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