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Scuba Forum / General / October 2005worried newbie
Hi everyone, I'm hoping against hope that someone here can give me a few hints to take to my confined water skills session tonight so that I'm not so freaked out. It's week four and I am supposed to do 'all equipment off, surface, surface dive, don equipment' skill in the deep end. I should have done it last week but I...just...couldn't...and no one was able to convince me to try! I have done the individual skills (mask off/on, fins off/on, BCD off/on) but all with my ankle weights and belt on (I'm Very, Very Floaty) so I felt fairly in control. I am very worried (to the point of losing sleep!) that I won't be able to a) equalize without my mask on, b) get down to my buddy (did I mention that I'm Very, Very Floaty?) and even if I do get down that c) I'll be so buoyant without the weights and equipment that I won't be able to stay down long enough to get my stuff back on. If you experienced divers can offer me any help besides the 3 R's of Diving (according to DH - Relax, Relax and Relax goddammit :~) I'd really appreciate it. TIA. Mouse >I'm hoping against hope that someone here can give me a few hints to take to >my confined water skills session tonight so that I'm not so freaked out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >(did I mention that I'm Very, Very Floaty?) and even if I do get down that >c) I'll be so buoyant without the weights and equipment that I won't be able Since I can't see how a GOOD instructor would let you get into a tither like this, I can only sugest that you find another instructor. I'm not even certain that this is (or should be) a required exercise. I don't recall doing it in my Basic Open Water course. What certifying agency is your instructor? Perhaps somebody more up-to-date than I can comment on the requirement?  SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > >I'm hoping against hope that someone here can give me a few hints to take to > >my confined water skills session tonight so that I'm not so freaked out. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Since I can't see how a GOOD instructor would let you get into a tither > like this, I can only sugest that you find another instructor. My instructor is the calmest person I have ever met. I get _myself_ into a 'tither'...a problem that is long standing, unfortunately, and one that I have had to work through many times in the past. > I'm not even certain that this is (or should be) a required exercise. > I don't recall doing it in my Basic Open Water course. > > What certifying agency is your instructor? NAUI. This skill is listed on the official confined water 'check out' sheet...no skill = no referral to Open Water. > Perhaps somebody more up-to-date than I can comment on the requirement? >>>I'm hoping against hope that someone here can give me a few hints to take > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > NAUI. This skill is listed on the official confined water 'check out' > sheet...no skill = no referral to Open Water. I done this sort of thing in pool exercises. It's pretty simple, just dive down, grab a regulator, stuff it in your mouth and then you have as long as you like to sort out all the other stuff. > I done this sort of thing in pool exercises. It's pretty simple, just dive > down, grab a regulator, stuff it in your mouth and then you have as long > as you like to sort out all the other stuff. Not bad, College Boy. > I done this sort of thing in pool exercises. It's pretty simple, just dive > down, grab a regulator, stuff it in your mouth and then you have as long > as you like to sort out all the other stuff. If you're as floaty as mouse suggests, you'd best grab your weightbelt first. >>I done this sort of thing in pool exercises. It's pretty simple, just dive >>down, grab a regulator, stuff it in your mouth and then you have as long >>as you like to sort out all the other stuff. > > If you're as floaty as mouse suggests, you'd best grab your weightbelt > first. I guess the difference is that, in Europe, we use steel tanks. No need to grab the weight belt if you're hanging off a hose attached to a 45lb lump of steel :-) Signature"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin >>>I done this sort of thing in pool exercises. It's pretty simple, just >>>dive down, grab a regulator, stuff it in your mouth and then you have as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > grab the weight belt if you're hanging off a hose attached to a 45lb lump > of steel :-) The boyany folks would then be upside down, and out of reach of their gear. When we did this for NAUI, we left our weight belts on. > When we did this for NAUI, we left our weight belts on. Interesting. That would seem to negate one of the larger benefits of the exercise. Of all the things that I might lose during a dive, the only thing more likely to be dropped than the weightbelt is the snorkel . . . if you dive with either. For those that wear significant weight, the shallow end of a pool is definitely the best place to learn to deal with a dropped weightbelt. Lee >> When we did this for NAUI, we left our weight belts on. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > shallow end of a pool is definitely the best place to learn to deal with a > dropped weightbelt. Maskless and airless? :-) > Lee >>> When we did this for NAUI, we left our weight belts on. >> Interesting. That would seem to negate one of the larger benefits of the >> exercise. Of all the things that I might lose during a dive, the only [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Maskless and airless? :-) It's supposed to be a challange. In my case, maskless doesn't make much of a difference. I can see and breathe without a mask, in fresh or salt water. Things are not clear, but I can tell the difference between a weightbelt, my other equipment and the bottom of the pool. I imagine you can too. Airless can be a problem, but in this case, only a temporary one. I still say that it's relatively easy if you think in advance. If you put your weightbelt next to your regulator, you can grab one with one hand and the other with the other. Lee >>>> When we did this for NAUI, we left our weight belts on. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > It's supposed to be a challenge. We did weightbelts in a different drill. > In my case, maskless doesn't make much of a difference. I can see and > breathe without a mask, in fresh or salt water. Things are not clear, but > I can tell the difference between a weightbelt, my other equipment and the > bottom of the pool. I imagine you can too. I bet we could reg a tank and put the tank in a BC, not that I've gone that far since 98 or 99. Had to do that for IANTD Divemaster. But, I have a thousand dives and you have like 20,000. He/she has -bupkus-. > Airless can be a problem, but in this case, only a temporary one. I still > say that it's relatively easy if you think in advance. If you put your > weightbelt next to your regulator, you can grab one with one hand and the > other with the other. > > Lee >> If you're as floaty as mouse suggests, you'd best grab your weightbelt >> first. > > I guess the difference is that, in Europe, we use steel tanks. No need to > grab the weight belt if you're hanging off a hose attached to a 45lb lump > of steel :-) Perhaps. Should I then, assume that you need no weight belt when you dive? If you use one, then it's pretty clear that the weight of the tank, itself, is not sufficient. Another consideration is that, until you actually put the tank on, you have to hold on to it with one of your hands, a hand that is not then available for other uses, like putting on your mask. Personally, I can do the drill in pretty much any order that makes sense. In my normal diving trim, I'm not that buoyant. I don't, in fact, use a weightbelt. My tank and plate is almost perfect weighting for me in salt water and too much weight in fresh water. One of these days, I'm going to have to set up my aluminum plate and see how that does in fresh water, but frankly, fresh water dives are so rare for me that it's almost not worth the effort. At any rate, mouse was kind of specific about being very floaty and you must admit that the combination of tank and weightbelt is a better anchor than either individually. Lee > > Since I can't see how a GOOD instructor would let you get into a tither > > like this, I can only sugest that you find another instructor. > > My instructor is the calmest person I have ever met. I get _myself_ into a > 'tither'...a problem that is long standing, unfortunately, and one that I > have had to work through many times in the past. Sounds like some sort of anxiety stress? Mouse, is your anxiety because this is a "test"? Or do you have doubt in your abilities to be able to accomplish the task, even if you had sufficient opportunity to try/practice it? > > I'm not even certain that this is (or should be) a required exercise. > > I don't recall doing it in my Basic Open Water course. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > NAUI. This skill is listed on the official confined water 'check out' > sheet...no skill = no referral to Open Water. It sounds familiar...and my advice to Mouse is that I think I screwed it up on my first attempt to. What I recall about getting through this test was the realization that I did *NOT* have to accomplish all of the gear removal (or reverse) on a single breath of air: so long as you have a regulator in your mouth, you have all the time in the world. This test is actually pretty easy once you realize that the only real item that has time pressure (time limit) is in establishing your air supply, and that the purpose of the exercise is to give you a vague task that you have to problem-solve on the fly to accomplish. Since it is a problem-solving exercise, you'll learn what works for you by trial-and-error...so you will probably be unsuccessful the first couple of times...we all were there once. The basic rules for both taking the gear off and putting it back on are really quite simple: A. Some gear floats instead of sinking...how do you keep it on the bottom of the pool? B. When you aren't wearing your weightbelt, you're going to float. C. Air = Time. Therefore, what item are you most likely to be last to remove? And first to restore? FWIW, expect a couple of false starts before you sort out that some things really can't be done too far out of order...it took us all at least a couple of tries before we got through this one ourselves. Finally...and this is important...there is one aspect of this test that has the potential to be dangerous. It comes after you've removed all your gear and removed the regulator from your mouth just before you begin your ascent to the surface: you just breathed compressed air at the bottom of the pool, so you can't "hold your breath", since this can cause an embolism. As such, when you're ready to surface, you will need to exhale as you swim up, or "blow-n-go"...to exhale as you're coming up is very important here. FWIW, you can have a full breath when you freedive down to put on the gear, but it may be easier with a "less than full" breath, since this will make you a bit less positively buoyant, and it will be easier/faster to swim to the pool's bottom and your gear pile. Since you can use your regualtor's purge button, you don't really need all that much air to clear the reg to start breathing at the bottom of the pool. -hh > The basic rules for both taking the gear off and putting it back on are > really quite simple: > > A. Some gear floats instead of sinking...how do you keep it on the > bottom of the pool? Empty your BCD and don't take any gear that floats. I used to have floating fins, but it's been a long time. What do you have the floats? > B. When you aren't wearing your weightbelt, you're going to float. Which is why floaty people should take it off last and at least hook on to it first. > C. Air = Time. Therefore, what item are you most likely to be last to > remove? And first to restore? Actually, I'd remove my bcd/tank/regulator before I removed my weight belt. I'd keep the regulator in my mouth for the reasons you mention, but the last thing I'd take off and the first thing I'd hook on to would be the weightbelt. I'd get air before I put it on, but I'd gain the weight advantage before I did anything else. > Finally...and this is important...there is one aspect of this test that > has the potential to be dangerous. It comes after you've removed all [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > need to exhale as you swim up, or "blow-n-go"...to exhale as you're > coming up is very important here. Very important point. > FWIW, you can have a full breath when you freedive down to put on the > gear, but it may be easier with a "less than full" breath, since this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that much air to clear the reg to start breathing at the bottom of the > pool. Good advice. Why didn't I think of that. Oh yeah, when I did the exercise, I was anything but floaty. The hardest water skill I ever had to do was floating motionless for 5 minutes in one of my lifesaving courses. I cheated. It took more energy to float at all, than it did to swim. Every time the instructor turned her back, I'd skull back up level. Lee > >I'm hoping against hope that someone here can give me a few hints to take to > >my confined water skills session tonight so that I'm not so freaked out. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > What certifying agency is your instructor? > Perhaps somebody more up-to-date than I can comment on the requirement? We did it in my class. It wasn't required though. It was more like a game to practice surface dives. A 12' surface dive is not that tough. A friend and I did the same thing at the site where we checked out (not during checkouts) in 25' with no problem. The first thing to remember is that when you get down (which you can learn to do with the proper training) is grab the weightbelt and the regulator. Luckily for me, I have integrated weights which makes that process much easier. I grab the BC and lo and behold there's my regulator just waiting for me. Honestly, it's nothing more than an interesting diversion. I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea though. That's especially true after a long day of diving with all kinds of nitrogen buildup... Let us know how it goes. > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Mouse > Hi everyone, > > I'm hoping against hope that someone here can give me a few hints to take > to > my confined water skills session tonight All I can say is, if at first you don't succeed... Confidence at any level of diving... Only comes from diving. In the pool, too. Ask for some private practice time- maybe having an audience, i.e., other class members, is part of the problem. > > Hi everyone, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Mouse Relax. It's no biggie. I am very worried (to the point of losing sleep!) that I > won't be able to a) equalize without my mask on, Actually, it's easier to equalize without a mask since you don't have that big gob of air glued to yer face. Equalize the same way, by pinching yer nose, if ya have to. b) get down to my buddy > (did I mention that I'm Very, Very Floaty?) You only have to swim down a few feet. Practice surface diving (90 degree bend at the waist, feet straight into the air, kick like crazy when yer feet drop below the surface). If you've been wearing a wetsuit, ditch it before this exercise. and even if I do get down that > c) I'll be so buoyant without the weights and equipment that I won't be able > to stay down long enough to get my stuff back on. You have two hands. Grab the weight belt with the left to hold yerself down, grab the second stage with yer right and take a breath or two until you are relaxed and calm enough to continue the drill. Don't know what yer instructor taught ya, but I'd hold the second stage in my mouth while putting the weight belt on, then put on my mask and clear it so I could see what I'm doing. Then I'd just sit and relax while figuring out the rest. But I fear that you've already worked yerself into a panic. Trust me, it's a lot easier than you expect if you just take it one step at a time. Concentrate on just the first simple tasks: a clean surface dive, weights in hand, second stage in mouth. With that done, you have a couple hours to do the rest. m Don't worry. Take a relaxing breath or two before you start. I had to do the ditch and dawn this back in 1973 with the YMCA certification. It was actually a lot of fun. Good practice for underwater problem solving. We had to go down turn on the tank, clear the regulator and start breathing. Once you have your air supply you can relax and grab the weight belt. Also remember the tank itself is negatively buoyant, so that will help keep you down. The task was so much fun, I did it 3 more times just for the fun and challenge. I also am buoyant, (16 lbs. in fw with my birthday suit). You will be able to stay down by kicking while inverted. Relax and enjoy the experience. Maybe try it a few times. ;-) Let us know how it goes. Flea Dog > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Mouse > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > week > but I...just...couldn't...and no one was able to convince me to try! The only one that can get you to try is yourself. > I have done the individual skills (mask off/on, fins off/on, BCD off/on) > but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > able > to stay down long enough to get my stuff back on. Equalizing without a mask is easier than equalizing with one, but if you need both hands to swim down, you may have a problem. Practice in a pool, on your own, until you figure out a way to get to the required depth without weights, fins or a mask. Once you can do that, you're home free. Swim down to your equipment and hook your arm under your weight belt before you do anything else. Don't put it on, just latch on to it so you can say down without working at it. Your regulator comes next. If you don't have to turn your air off when you doff your equipment, don't. If you do, don't forget to turn it back on. Take a few breaths, calm down and rest a bit before you proceed. What you do next is up to you. Personally, I'd put my weight belt on so that I have both hands free for everything else. The mask would come next and then actually putting the BCD/tank, etc. on. Fins would come last. Hope this helps. You waited a bit too long to ask. > If you experienced divers can offer me any help besides the 3 R's of > Diving > (according to DH - Relax, Relax and Relax goddammit :~) I'd really > appreciate it. TIA. Relax is good advice. The trick, in your case, is going to be equalizing, getting ahold of your weight belt quickly enough that you can get something to breathe before you need something to breathe. If you don't get it the first time, take a few breaths on the surface, calm down and try again. You can do it, you just have to make it happen and, frankly, you only have to make it happen once. You may need bits and pieces of this skill now and then, but nobody ever dumps all of their equipment on the bottom and then swims down to put it on. If all else fails, find another instructor or, if necessary, another agency. The exercise you're trying to complete is not a standard with all agencies. Many of us who have been diving for a long time, had to complete the same exercise you're faced with, but these days, more courses leave it out than include it. Lee > Once you can do that, you're home free. Swim down to your equipment and > hook your arm under your weight belt before you do anything else. I'd suggest first put your reg into your mouth, maka sure it is breathable, take a breath and breath out. In again, and out! Once you breath out, you should be negative. Remember that you dived down fully inhaled. Exhaling adds about 8lbs to your underwater weight. Then, why do you need weights at all? Are you using a wetsuit? If so, it i really best to lay it across the lower calves while kneeling, this keeps the rest of the body in control of the situation. Don't forget to exhale... Matthias >> Once you can do that, you're home free. Swim down to your equipment and >> hook your arm under your weight belt before you do anything else. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Once you breath out, you should be negative. Remember that you dived down > fully inhaled. Exhaling adds about 8lbs to your underwater weight. You're not listening to what is being said. She (I think) is real floaty. The one time she got down to her equipment and put her regulator in her mouth, she floated away from it. She has to find a way to stay on the bottom long enough to put it all back together, making an anchor, ie her weight belt one of the first things she needs to grab. Her second stage is next. > Then, why do you need weights at all? Are you using a wetsuit? If so, it i > really best to lay it across the lower calves while kneeling, this keeps > the rest of the body in control of the situation. Don't forget to > exhale... Her lower calves are ticking straight up in the water. Her arms, however, are down. Hooking one arm under her weightbelt does the same thing in a way that she can probably handle. Lee >> Once you can do that, you're home free. Swim down to your equipment and >> hook your arm under your weight belt before you do anything else. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the rest of the body in control of the situation. Don't forget to > exhale... Never thought, or heard of that before.....who said you couldn't learn something on Usenet??? LD. >>>Once you can do that, you're home free. Swim down to your equipment and >>>hook your arm under your weight belt before you do anything else. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Never thought, or heard of that before.....who said you couldn't learn > something on Usenet??? You're welcome ;-) Another one: To determine the amount of weight you need, lay down a weight belt with lots of single weights, at a depth of about 10 ft. Make sure it is enough to really sink you. Don you full eqipment and a scond weight belt to go down where the first weight belt is lying. Deflate BCD, wahtever. Doff the weights your wearing and quickly grab the first belt, lying onthe ground. Obviously your buoyancy will lift some of these weights from the ground. This is this amount you wil need for diving, +1-2 lbs. for really shallow dives. Matthias > Once you can do that, you're home free. Swim down to your equipment and > hook your arm under your weight belt before you do anything else. Don't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that I have both hands free for everything else. The mask would come next > and then actually putting the BCD/tank, etc. on. Fins would come last. Missed this one earlier but as you know Lee, and I mentioned to the other poster, I taught myself to dive initially. The way you describe is almost exactly what I did, and I tried it a lot of different ways. I would also suggest to the "floaty one" to leave of the wtsuit, if they are wearing one. > If all else fails, find another instructor or, if necessary, another > agency. The exercise you're trying to complete is not a standard with all > agencies. Many of us who have been diving for a long time, had to complete > the same exercise you're faced with, but these days, more courses leave it > out than include it. True, and I thought about this fer a few seconds. I don't understand why this would be a "required" skill before an OW sign off, but I will say I think it is a great indicator of both confidence in the water and familiarity with equipment, which are both fairly important for the beginner, no? LD. > True, and I thought about this fer a few seconds. I don't understand why > this would be a "required" skill before an OW sign off, but I will say I > think it is a great indicator of both confidence in the water and > familiarity with equipment, which are both fairly important for the > beginner, no? Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed the harassment drills as well. I thought it was kind of fun to have people turn my air off, snatch my regulator, etc. while on the bottom of a pool in a blacked out mask. Lee > > True, and I thought about this fer a few seconds. I don't understand why > > this would be a "required" skill before an OW sign off, but I will say I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lee Please...gawd...nooooo!!! >> Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed the >> harassment drills as well. I thought it was kind of fun to have people [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Please...gawd...nooooo!!! You sound like a perfect candidate for cave training. 8) JF Don't Get Stuck On Stupid >>> Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed the >>> harassment drills as well. I thought it was kind of fun to have people >>turn >>> my air off, snatch my regulator, etc. while on the bottom of a pool in a >>> blacked out mask. > You sound like a perfect candidate for cave training. 8) At the time, there was no such thing as cave training. >>>> Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed the >>>> harassment drills as well. I thought it was kind of fun to have people [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >At the time, there was no such thing as cave training. Just out of curiosity, what kind of cert were you working on that required a blacked out mask and the harrassment? JF Don't Get Stuck On Stupid >>>>> Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed >>>>> the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>>>pool in a >>>>> blacked out mask. >>> You sound like a perfect candidate for cave training. 8) >>At the time, there was no such thing as cave training. > Just out of curiosity, what kind of cert were you working on that > required a blacked out mask and the harrassment? NAUI SCUBA. I think you've seen the card. They had to do something. We'd covered all the basics, and everything that was known about decompression and how to buddy breathe. They hadn't yet thought of nitrox or trimix for recreational diving, underwater cameras were very big and way out of the price range of anybody but the heavily funded (Cousteau and the media). We didn't have SPGs, alternates depth gauges or bcds. So we did harassment drills. Quite fun, really, provided you're very comfortable in the water. Did I mention that I was the youngest swimmer ever to cross the 2.75 mile wide lake we vacationed on, that I had long since earned Boy Scouts merit badges in first aid, swimming and lifesaving as well as the mile swim award and was working as a Water Safety Instructor, swimming instructor and lifeguard at the time? Lee >>>>>> Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed >>>>>> the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >and was working as a Water Safety Instructor, swimming instructor and >lifeguard at the time? I know what it's like growing up half fish. As a kid if I wasn't swimming in it I was boating on it, until it got hard enough to skate on. Then repeat. The first time I did a resort course the instructor was short of masks so I did the course without one, except when it was time to do the flood-the-mask drill. Seemed kinda redundant. JF Don't Get Stuck On Stupid >>>>> Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed >>>>> the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Just out of curiosity, what kind of cert were you working on that > required a blacked out mask and the harrassment? For me, IANTD Deep Air/Advanced Nitrox. Required? I dunno, but the instructor was having a good time. It was, by far, the most severe thing I ever did underwater, and the best dive training I ever, ever had. > JF > > Don't Get Stuck On Stupid > "JOF" <jofrancis@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It was, by far, the most severe thing I ever did underwater, and the best > dive training I ever, ever had. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.scuba/msg/d2a5c260d3ff64cf?dmode=source&hl=en >> JF >> >> Don't Get Stuck On Stupid > >> Yeah, but let's remember that people like you and I actually enjoyed the > >> harassment drills as well. I thought it was kind of fun to have people [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You sound like a perfect candidate for cave training. 8) Me?...in a cave? There is not enough beer in the world! > JF > > Don't Get Stuck On Stupid >> You sound like a perfect candidate for cave training. 8) > Me?...in a cave? There is not enough beer in the world! Not you, me. >> True, and I thought about this fer a few seconds. I don't understand why >> this would be a "required" skill before an OW sign off, but I will say I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > turn my air off, snatch my regulator, etc. while on the bottom of a pool > in a blacked out mask. I haven't had the pleasure....most of my (self) pool training was solo too! <BFG> I have been giving serious thought lately to doing a rescue lately though. More out of boredom, I think. LD. > If you experienced divers can offer me any help besides the 3 R's of Diving > (according to DH - Relax, Relax and Relax goddammit :~) I'd really > appreciate it. TIA. > > Mouse Thanks so much for the advice...and when Lee said that I waited too long to ask, s/he was right:~) Just for the record, I don't wear a wet suit or booties of any type and, if anything, I'm a little underweight so being too fat is not an issue. My instructor tells me that I am one of the most buoyant people he has ever trained. Other than calmly doffing the equipment and surfacing slowly while exhaling, I blew it. Everything I was worried about came to pass. I had to use my arms to try to swim down so equalizing was out of the question. In addition, twice(embarrassingly, I tried 3 times before giving up) when I let go of my nose to swim I got a snoot full of water and came back up choking and wheezing. Once I finally made it far enough to get the reg, I was literally doing a head stand on top of it, floating feet first up to the surface trying desperately (not good I know) to hold it in my mouth while I equalized. As my buddy tried to get some weight on me somewhere (she was supposed to put the weights over my shoulders - which were facing the bottom - or my legs - which were nearly on the surface!) I ended up just floating away from the regulator back to the surface. Unless I can try to do this skill with, at minimum, ankle weights on I don't think it will ever happen. I'm going to stop into the dive shop today and see if my instructor will allow this. If not, I don't see any point in continuing. Mouse (snip)> I blew it. Everything I was worried about came to pass. I had to use my > arms to try to swim down so equalizing was out of the question. In > addition, twice(embarrassingly, I tried 3 times before giving up) when I let > go of my nose to swim I got a snoot full of water and came back up choking > and wheezing. You got some more very good advice in the posts today. However, I note that you say you were holding your nose as you tried to do this. You need to practice diving to the bottom of the pool without holding your nose, so that you can learn to swim like this without getting water up your nose. (snip)> > Unless I can try to do this skill with, at minimum, ankle weights on I don't > think it will ever happen. I'm going to stop into the dive shop today and > see if my instructor will allow this. If not, I don't see any point in > continuing. Good luck. I'd be sorry to see you stop at this stage. You need to do some swimming exercises and get more comfortable in the water, me thinks. > Good luck. I'd be sorry to see you stop at this stage. You need to do some > swimming exercises and get more comfortable in the water, me thinks. Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water turns solid... > > Good luck. I'd be sorry to see you stop at this stage. You need to do > some > > swimming exercises and get more comfortable in the water, me thinks. > > Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water turns > solid... We have one or two indoor pools up here and as long as it doesn't get too, too cold, sometimes we can even keep them heated. > We have one or two indoor pools up here and as long as it doesn't get too, > too cold, sometimes we can even keep them heated. "Heated" meaning "still liquid"? >> We have one or two indoor pools up here and as long as it doesn't get >> too, >> too cold, sometimes we can even keep them heated. > > "Heated" meaning "still liquid"? At least, when it turns solid, they don't hafta worry about holding their nose anymore. LD. >> > Good luck. I'd be sorry to see you stop at this stage. You need to do >> some [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > We have one or two indoor pools up here and as long as it doesn't get too, > too cold, sometimes we can even keep them heated. Do they allow scuba training in the Banff Hot Springs??? ;0) LD. > >> > Good luck. I'd be sorry to see you stop at this stage. You need to do > >> some [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > LD. Even I could relax there. Maybe that's the ticket? I'm in Banff, I'm in Banff, I'm in Banff...aaahhh:~) >> >> > Good luck. I'd be sorry to see you stop at this stage. You need to > do [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Even I could relax there. Maybe that's the ticket? I'm in Banff, I'm in > Banff, I'm in Banff...aaahhh:~) There ya go. One of my fave places in the world too. LD. -snip- > Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water turns > solid... Once you saw through the ice, it's not so bad. You just have to watch out for polar bears while you're getting changed. SignatureMagnus McElroy Electrical Engineer (EIT) HABIT Research (250) 381-9425 > -snip- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Once you saw through the ice, it's not so bad. You just have to watch > out for polar bears while you're getting changed. Why? Have they become choosy? Matthias > -snip- >> Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Once you saw through the ice, it's not so bad. You just have to watch out > for polar bears while you're getting changed. Voyeur polar bear problems??? LD. > > -snip- > >> Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > LD. Nah, it's the wolves you have to watch out for. >> > -snip- >> >> Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > Nah, it's the wolves you have to watch out for. You know you're fit when the wolves whistle??? LD. >> > -snip- >> >> Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >Nah, it's the wolves you have to watch out for. I thought it was the Elk poop on the fairways. JF Don't Get Stuck On Stupid > >> > -snip- > >> >> Apparently, they're from Canada, so they better hurry before the water [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I thought it was the Elk poop on the fairways. Elk poop is just one of many good reasons to excuse myself from golf:~) > (snip)> I blew it. Everything I was worried about came to pass. I had to > use my [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > practice diving to the bottom of the pool without holding your nose, so that > you can learn to swim like this without getting water up your nose. Unfortunately I have to equalize about every .5 meter and can't do it with any other way than the 'hold you nose and blow' method. Then when I let go to swim the water rushes in. > (snip)> > > Unless I can try to do this skill with, at minimum, ankle weights on I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Good luck. I'd be sorry to see you stop at this stage. You need to do some > swimming exercises and get more comfortable in the water, me thinks. Thanks everyone for the advice. Of course, Chilly is right...I'm not comfortable in the water. Past failure and present fear is a powerful combination. The instructor says 'no go' for the weights but he is going to get me personal help over the last two weeks of the course to help me succeed. He assures me is the hardest thing I will be asked to do. Mouse > Unfortunately I have to equalize about every .5 meter and can't do it with > any other way than the 'hold you nose and blow' method. Then when I let > go > to swim the water rushes in. Can you blow up a balloon? > > Unfortunately I have to equalize about every .5 meter and can't do it with > > any other way than the 'hold you nose and blow' method. Then when I let > > go > > to swim the water rushes in. > > Can you blow up a balloon? ?yes? >> > Unfortunately I have to equalize about every .5 meter and can't do it > with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ?yes? Then you already know how to close your nose off from your mouth, and not inhale the water. You just need to get more control over that action.. > You just need to get more control over that action.. So says the guy who's always exhaling London Broil through his nostrils. >> You just need to get more control over that action.. > > So says the guy who's always exhaling London Broil through his nostrils. You think -just anyone- can do that...? > >> You just need to get more control over that action.. > > > > So says the guy who's always exhaling London Broil through his nostrils. > > You think -just anyone- can do that...? I'm hungry! >> >> You just need to get more control over that action.. >> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'm hungry! Does it worry you that the mental image of Doug yakking a London Broil out his left nostril makes you hungry? JF Don't Get Stuck On Stupid > >> >> You just need to get more control over that action.. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does it worry you that the mental image of Doug yakking a London Broil > out his left nostril makes you hungry? Yes. Very much. >> > I'm hungry! >> > >> Does it worry you that the mental image of Doug yakking a London Broil >> out his left nostril makes you hungry? > >Yes. Very much. Okay. That's fairly disgusting. I'm trying to clear my mind of the image of you gobbling up half-chewed chunks of London broil as Doug stands over you wiping his greasy nose. Gad! JF Don't Get Stuck On Stupid >>> You just need to get more control over that action.. >> >> So says the guy who's always exhaling London Broil through his nostrils. > > You think -just anyone- can do that...? Most people couldn't even eat a steak that big in the first place! LD. Sorry you didn't succeed, but don't be too quick to give up. It sounds to me like you came very close. Here are a couple of suggestions that may get you the rest of the way. 1. When descending, let air slowly trickle out of your nose as you descend. If air is going out, water can't get in. Also, tilt your head back slightly so that you can see where you are going and your nostrels are not pointed directly up. 2. Next time, when you put take your equipment off, put your weightbelt on or very near to the second stage you will be using. That way, if you can get to your regulator, you can also get to your weightbelt. Forget getting your buddy to put your weightbelt anywhere. You don't have time for him to lift it and decide how/where to put it. Just run one arm under the belt while you pick up the second stage with the other. Put the second stage in your mouth and turn on your gas or, if your gas is already on, clear the regulator. With weightbelt in hand and air to breathe, all else can be handled. 3. Cheat a bit. Add about 4 extra pounds to your weightbelt. Being overweighted will make it a lot easier to stay on the bottom while you do everything else that you need to do. Presumably, your bcd will handle the extra weight. If it won't, then it's capacity is insufficient anyway. In your case, your weightbelt is the key. Get it first, or at least at the same time as your regulator. As soon as you have gas, before you put your BCD on, put your weightbelt on. You should then be able to kneel on the bottom and complete the job. Lee > Sorry you didn't succeed, but don't be too quick to give up. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > head back slightly so that you can see where you are going and your > nostrels are not pointed directly up. Ack. But I would suggest another approach as well. Getting familiar with wate in the nose. It is crucial to be able to circumvent the reflex which is telling you you can't breathe when there is water in your nose. ( Or you have to go to the surface..) Bathtub exercises, and a "nose douche" can work wonders. A nose douche is a medical device by which you let salty water penter through one nostril, and have it come out by the other. The trick not to swallow it is to open your mouth, or clamp your tongue against the upper part of the throat. Excellent method to free the passages, to. Matthias > Unfortunately I have to equalize about every .5 meter and can't do it with > any other way than the 'hold you nose and blow' method. Then when I let > go > to swim the water rushes in. You must either be inhaling slightly, or need to try to exhale through yer nose slightly (?) LD. > > Unfortunately I have to equalize about every .5 meter and can't do it with > > any other way than the 'hold you nose and blow' method. Then when I let [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > LD. Interesting, now that I think about it, it seems like when I exhale through my nose it flips some physiological switch that gets me nose breathing. Hmmm, something to work on for sure. > > If you experienced divers can offer me any help besides the 3 R's of > Diving [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > which were nearly on the surface!) I ended up just floating away from the > regulator back to the surface. It sounds like the pool is not too deep, like 10 feet. Do you think you could duck dive down and put your weight belt on and THEN go for the reg? I think what I did for this one was go down, equalize, take one breath, leave reg, don belt, get reg, relax. Just remember if you screw up you have a compressed breath in your lungs relative to the surface. Finally, you can overpressure your ears before you go down. This might get you a few feet further down before you need to stop using both hands. > Unless I can try to do this skill with, at minimum, ankle weights on I don't > think it will ever happen. I'm going to stop into the dive shop today and > see if my instructor will allow this. If not, I don't see any point in > continuing. It's just a matter of comfort, it'll come. There is weight and air waiting on the bottom, you just need to solve the puzzle of how to get it on in the right order. I'd practice diving and equalizing unweighted in the deep end for a while before I worried about the scuba portion. > Mouse > > Once I finally made it far enough to get the reg, I was literally doing a > > head stand on top of it, floating feet first up to the surface trying [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > get you a few feet further down before you need to stop using both > hands. Another great but easy to accomplish idea. I'll definitely try this. > > Unless I can try to do this skill with, at minimum, ankle weights on I don't > > think it will ever happen. I'm going to stop into the dive shop today and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > Mouse >> If you experienced divers can offer me any help besides the 3 R's of > Diving [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > see if my instructor will allow this. If not, I don't see any point in > continuing. As has already been said, this skill is not necessarily one you should really need, and it is *certainly* not one that should stop you from learning to dive. If it is such a big problem as you suggest, I would say, try another agency. One that does not require this as a skill. LD. > Hi everyone, Thanks again everyone for your suggestions and encouragement. With what I've learned here and knowing that I'll have extra help next week, I feel ready for another attempt. Mouse >> Hi everyone, > > Thanks again everyone for your suggestions and encouragement. With what > I've learned here and knowing that I'll have extra help next week, I feel > ready for another attempt. Relax, and enjoy! Remember, the end result is to have fun. Why not look at thge training as a fun part of it too? That said, good luck! LD. |
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