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Scuba Forum / General / December 2003S&W Metals "Hammerhead II" Backplate
I've been looking at going the backplate route for awhile now. I've searched the Google archives to see which companies make backplates. With all due respect to anyone on the group that also manufactures backplates, from what I've been able to gather, it seems that there really is not that much difference in the various commercially available backplates out there. I'm currently considering the S&W Metals "Hammerhead II" Backplate: http://www.swmetalproducts.com/hhbp1.asp Does anyone on the group own this backplate and have an opinion of it that they would like to share? > I've been looking at going the backplate route for awhile now. I've > searched the Google archives to see which companies make backplates. With [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does anyone on the group own this backplate and have an opinion of it that > they would like to share? try http://www.selchie.com/ scott is a regular here, and has a reputation for good products and service. >>scott is a regular here, and has a reputation for good products and service.<< Speaking of backplates, has anyone ever heard of anyone making a brass backplate? Being ex-Navy, I guess I have some sort of affinity for brass, I guess... Who knows, maybe it would be a classic like the old Navy Mk V helmet... <grin> Hey Scott... What would one of your backplates stamped out of 1/4" brass cost? > >>scott is a regular here, and has a reputation for good products and > service.<< [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Hey Scott... What would one of your backplates stamped out of 1/4" brass > cost? send over some CAD scematics and cash and the local engineering workshop would be able to make one. Or you could check the local engineering shops and save $$$ shipping rhys > >>scott is a regular here, and has a reputation for good products and > service.<< Thank's Bob. > Speaking of backplates, has anyone ever heard of anyone making a brass > backplate? Being ex-Navy, I guess I have some sort of affinity for brass, I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hey Scott... What would one of your backplates stamped out of 1/4" brass > cost? You know, that is kind of a cool idea. I never *once* thought of making a brass plate. We cut the plates with a laser. For brass, we would have it waterjetted, then tumble it after breaking all the edges and bending. And if you wanted to really pimp, I could get it polished up like proper brass should be. You'd probably be looking at around $150 to $175 bucks, depending upon what mood the polishing dude is in. Or, if you want to do all the work yourself, of breaking the edges and finishing the plate, you are probably looking at $85 to $105 for a one off plate raw, as cut and bent. I will know more tomorrow after I figure out how much a piece of *quality* brass plate costs. I can tell you its physical properties: Physical Properties for Regular Backplate General Properties: Material: {Brass, Soft Yellow} Density: 0.306 ( lbmass/( in^3 ) ) Volume: 36.563 in^3 Mass: 11.188 lbmass Area: 321.767 in^2 Center of Gravity: X: -1.186E-014 in Y: -7.731 in Z: 0.921 in >> Hey Scott... What would one of your backplates stamped out of 1/4" brass > > cost?> > You know, that is kind of a cool idea. I never *once* thought of making a > brass plate. Didn't Sean Stevenson out of Vancouver have some made up a few years ago? There is also a guy in Ontario that has one. I'm not sure where he got his though. Brian Edmonton, Alberta www.mossmanscubaventures.com > > >>scott is a regular here, and has a reputation for good products and > > service.<< [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Y: -7.731 in > Z: 0.921 in Figure a cost.....Id be interested. will yo supply a lifetime of Brasso though? -- An amateur built the ark ....professionals built the Titanic. > Figure a cost.....Id be interested. > > will yo supply a lifetime of Brasso though? Not a chance. Triple layer show-chromed brass would be even more over the top. Scott > > Figure a cost.....Id be interested. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Scott yeah, but polished brass..... -- An amateur built the ark ....professionals built the Titanic. > > Figure a cost.....Id be interested. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Scott maybe engine turned brass? -- An amateur built the ark ....professionals built the Titanic. > > > Figure a cost.....Id be interested. > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > maybe engine turned brass? That could be done with a fair bit of ease on the 3 axis mill, but bending would leave definite marks. Scott > will yo supply a lifetime of Brasso though? You just need to learn to appreciate the patina of a nice aged piece of brass... http://www.divingheritage.com/markv.htm Take it from someone who spent a good portion of their Naval time with a can of Brasso or Never-Dull, aged brass starts looking good... <grin> "Grumman-581" <> wrote in message > Take it from someone who spent a good portion of their Naval time with a can > of Brasso or Never-Dull, aged brass starts looking good... <grin> Hey Grumman, Have been in the Navy for the last 14 years. What is brasso and never dull? Lol Us "airdales" don't touch the stuff. :) David > Have been in the Navy for the last 14 years. What is brasso and > never dull? Lol Us "airdales" don't touch the stuff. :) Seems that whenever I got stuck waiting on some school, I got stuck polishing the brass shells and such on the quarterdeck for the school... Either that or running a floor buffer... Airdale, huh? Ahhh... To paraphrase a lne from "Apocolapse Now" -- "The smell of JP-5 in the morning... Smells like VICTORY..." > Seems that whenever I got stuck waiting on some school, I got stuck > polishing the brass shells and such on the quarterdeck for the school... > Either that or running a floor buffer... > > Airdale, huh? Ahhh... To paraphrase a lne from "Apocolapse Now" -- "The > smell of JP-5 in the morning... Smells like VICTORY..." And I thought it was just the hydraulic fluid I was smelling. hmmmm I seem to remember that if it isn't leaking then something is wrong with the jet. We have more hydraulic leaks in our jets than JP-5 leaks, for now any way. knock on wood..... Glad I don't have to fix those leaks. I am a tweak kinda guy. I fix the electrons. David > I fix the electrons. Nosepicker. <cough> I was a BB stacker, or a red shirt in your vernacular. xlh883. eh? That means you have a Sporty that needs a heart: http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/xl883_to_1200_page07.htm Scott > Nosepicker. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Scott Nosepicker? I feel hurt! lol As for the Sporty, well, I no longer have it. I replaced it with a 2002 Heritage Softail Classic about a year and a half ago. The Sporty was my first love though. Has her for 10 years. My Heritage has a heart. I have respect for BB stackers for the most part. You would probably the being in EA-6B ordnance. All they do is HARM checks and arm/disarm the wing stations. Not much else except the one a year HARM missile. BORING! David > And I thought it was just the hydraulic fluid I was smelling. > hmmmm I seem to remember that if it isn't leaking then > something is wrong with the jet. I was on the Nimitz... It seems that the metal of the ship has pores and they seep JP-5... Sure made it fun when some idiot decided that we needed to have an inspection in our summer whites on the flight deck... It was next to impossible to climb the couple of ladders to the flight deck without getting black stains on the front edges of the bell bottoms... > I am a tweak kinda guy. I fix the electrons. Same here, but not on aircraft... I was an ETR (radar)... I worked on surface search radars... My favorite unit was the old SPS-10 and LN-66 units... They were up on the O-10 level... No one wanted to climb all the way up there and thus you pretty much got left alone if you went up there... My berthing compartment was one deck down and slightly starboard of the arresting gear... Doesn't take long before you're deaf to those frequencies and can sleep through flight ops... > You know, that is kind of a cool idea. I never *once* thought of making a > brass plate. Hmmm... There might be a reason that you never thought of it in that perhaps it's a dumb idea... That's not to say that I wouldn't consider it though... Now, if one wanted to keep a *polished* brass backplate, I suspect that would definitely not be one of the smarter ideas around... Personally, I like the dark patina that a piece of brass develops over the years of use... I've got some 20+ year old bolt snaps from when I was in the Navy and they and a nice dark color to the brass... > And if you wanted to really pimp, I could get it polished up like proper > brass should be. Nawh, that would mean that I would have to polish it all the time and although I like brass, I really hated having to polish it all the time when I was in the Navy... > Or, if you want to do all the work yourself, of breaking the edges and > finishing the plate, you are probably looking at $85 to $105 for a one > off plate raw, as cut and bent. Hmmm... That is more reasonable... Would it still need to be tumbled or does that price include the tumbling? > I will know more tomorrow after I figure out how much a piece > of *quality* brass plate costs. Naval Brass CA464? > Mass: 11.188 lbmass Hmmm... A little heavier than stainless steel... Is this because I asked about 1/4" plate and the stainless steel backplates are only 1/8" or less? I look at the old Navy Mark V helmets and the nice patina that have developed on them and think that it might be kind of neat to have a backplate made out of brass... http://www.divingheritage.com/markv.htm > I look at the old Navy Mark V helmets and the nice patina that have > developed on them and think that it might be kind of neat to have a > backplate made out of brass... Wot? to match your Mk V mask??? ;) rhys > Nawh, that would mean that I would have to polish it all the time and > although I like brass, I really hated having to polish it all the time when > I was in the Navy... Might be able to throw a clear powder coat on it... > > Or, if you want to do all the work yourself, of breaking the edges and > > finishing the plate, you are probably looking at $85 to $105 for a one > > off plate raw, as cut and bent. > > Hmmm... That is more reasonable... Would it still need to be tumbled or does > that price include the tumbling? Tumbling is a big vibratory deburring machine. Basically a big box full of ceramic rocks that we shake violently with a 7 horsepower electric motor. > > I will know more tomorrow after I figure out how much a piece > > of *quality* brass plate costs. > > Naval Brass CA464? I'll look into it today. How about 90/10 Cupronickel? > > Mass: 11.188 lbmass > > Hmmm... A little heavier than stainless steel... Is this because I asked > about 1/4" plate and the stainless steel backplates are only 1/8" or less? I make stainless plates in 1/4", they weigh about 10.5 for the regular, and 13 for the large. > I look at the old Navy Mark V helmets and the nice patina that have > developed on them and think that it might be kind of neat to have a > backplate made out of brass... > http://www.divingheritage.com/markv.htm Mine wouldn't get polished for very long... Scott >> > I will know more tomorrow after I figure out how much a piece >> > of *quality* brass plate costs. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> > Mass: 11.188 lbmass One material property of brass that worries me is ductility. I know that "high strength yellow brass" is used for gears, which implies that the material can be very tough, but the very small surface area of the tank bolt holes might overload the material at that point and cause distortion of the holes. I also wonder how well the plate would resist bending. As an empirical kind of guy, it seems to me the best way to answer these questions is to make a prototype and find out for sure. There would be no shortage of volunteers here to unobjectively evaluate it and give you the necessary feedback. Personally, I think ESG would be the perfect candidate, although he's likely to want a commission on the sales if it goes into production :-) And once this project is over, maybe it's time to talk about a titanium travel plate <g>. Alan > One material property of brass that worries me is ductility. I know that "high > strength yellow brass" is used for gears, which implies that the material can > be very tough, but the very small surface area of the tank bolt holes might > overload the material at that point and cause distortion of the holes. I also > wonder how well the plate would resist bending. I was concerned about how much it might bend also... That's why I originally mentioned making it out of 1/4" brass plating... Even the aluminum plates are only made out of 1/4" plating (which doesn't seem strong enough in my opinion)... Anything worth engineering is worth over-engineering... <grin> When I designed a range top for my kitchen remodelling project a year or so ago, I went with a 1/4" aluminum plate for the range top and cut holes to install the burners through it... Since it was only supported around the edges (in addition to having rather large holes cut into it for the burners), I did not think that 1/8" plating would have been strong enough to support the weight of the pots (especially since I sometimes use cast iron pots)... One of the reasons that I haven't bought an aluminum backplate is because I don't think the 1/8" is thick enough... From looking at the properties that Scott posted about brass, I'm wondering if perhaps he really was quoting 1/8" brass instead of 1/4" like I had originally suggested... Otherwise, the numbers don't quite add up unless there's a lot of weight lost with the cutting of the holes and slots... > And once this project is over, maybe it's time to talk about a titanium travel > plate <g>. There was a guy at Oshkosh a couple of years ago who was making some sort of aircraft tie-down stakes out of titanium and he was giving out samples of the material... The alloy that he was using had a medium gray color to it... It would make a nice looking backplate if one was looking for something rather subdued in appearance... "Grumman-581" <grumman581@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM@houston.rr.com> wrote in message news:%BMwb.36970 > the material... The alloy that he was using had a medium gray color to it... > It would make a nice looking backplate if one was looking for something > rather subdued in appearance... Subdued??? What fun is there in that? Kimber who dives a "subdued" hot pink AL BP! > Subdued??? What fun is there in that? > > Kimber who dives a "subdued" hot pink AL BP! Well, hot pink is just not really my color... <grin> There's a certain beauty in the patina that develops on a piece of brass or bronze over the years... You get the darker colors in it and then the lighter spots where it is handled more often (e.g. on the edges)... You can approximate it sometimes by heating the object and letting it cool, but the oils and acids from your skin have a much better effect upon it (it just takes a long time)... Parkerizing, anondizing, or powdercoating it is just not the same... It's like the difference between a firearm where the metal has been properly blued and one in which it was just parkerized... Yeah, parkerized metal protects it better, but it just doesn't have the look of a good blueing... > > Subdued??? What fun is there in that? > > > > Kimber who dives a "subdued" hot pink AL BP! > > Well, hot pink is just not really my color... <grin> Awww -- come on I bet you look hot in pink! (-: > There's a certain beauty in the patina that develops on a piece of brass or > bronze over the years... Yes I know -- but you were taking about the titanium being subdued not the brass. The brass would probably be mucho cool. Kimber > Awww -- come on I bet you look hot in pink! (-: Nawh, I'm more of an earth tones person -- khaki, olive drab green and such... > > Awww -- come on I bet you look hot in pink! (-: > > Nawh, I'm more of an earth tones person -- khaki, olive drab green and > such... I miss Hog -- he dug pink and looked good in it too! (-: Kimber > "Grumman-581" <grumman581@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM@houston.rr.com> wrote in > message news:%BMwb.36970 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Kimber who dives a "subdued" hot pink AL BP! Who made the BP? John > > Kimber who dives a "subdued" hot pink AL BP! > Who made the BP? Gary Hoadley of GUTS Kimber >>> Kimber who dives a "subdued" hot pink AL BP! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Kimber Thanks John > Gary Hoadley of GUTS From what I understand, he also makes a brass backplate... Couldn't find a web site on him though... His email address seems to be in Canada though... > > Gary Hoadley of GUTS > > From what I understand, he also makes a brass backplate... Couldn't find a > web site on him though... His email address seems to be in Canada though... I don't remember seeing a brass one, but didn't he have a titanium one on eBay at one point? Here is a link to his eBay store http://stores.ebay.com/garysunderwatertechnicalsupply Kimber >> And once this project is over, maybe it's time to talk about a titanium >travel [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >It would make a nice looking backplate if one was looking for something >rather subdued in appearance... Titanium tent stakes?? Boy, you airplane guys really know how to spend money, don't you. > Titanium tent stakes?? Boy, you airplane guys really know > how to spend money, don't you. Actually, they were more like the tie-out stakes for dogs in that they were a coil that you screw into the ground... People want to save as much weight as possible and as far as aviation products go, they were virtually cheap... Personally, I just used some 2x2s that I cut into stakes before flying up there... > >> And once this project is over, maybe it's time to talk about a titanium > >travel [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Titanium tent stakes?? Boy, you airplane guys really know how to spend money, > don't you. Out here we use something that resembles 3/4 " rebar cut into 10" lengths. Oh, and a 15 pound sledge to drive them. Keep the tents nice and stable, but they can really be a pain to remove. > Out here we use something that resembles 3/4 " rebar cut into 10" lengths. > Oh, and a 15 pound sledge to drive them. Keep the tents nice and stable, > but they can really be a pain to remove. Rebar is cheap, so when you get through with the tent, just drive the stakes all the way into the ground and leave them there... > > Out here we use something that resembles 3/4 " rebar cut into 10" lengths. > > Oh, and a 15 pound sledge to drive them. Keep the tents nice and stable, > > but they can really be a pain to remove. > > Rebar is cheap, so when you get through with the tent, just drive the stakes > all the way into the ground and leave them there... Naturalist? "Abdul RUSFAWI (De-Ice Diver)" wrote ... > Naturalist? Nawh... Perhaps someone who like to mess with the people you see sometimes with metal detector who think that they're going to find lost rings and rolexes... <evil-grin> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:42:05 -0800, "Scott" <scottk@localaxes.com> wrote ... >Might be able to throw a clear powder coat on it... Nawh, I would prefer to let it naturally age to get just the right patina on it... Kind of a retro-50s look... 1850s, that is... >Tumbling is a big vibratory deburring machine. Basically a big box full of >ceramic rocks that we shake violently with a 7 horsepower electric motor. Hmmm... Sounds like something that Tim Allen would be proud of... Of course, for him the horsepower is a little low... <grin> >I'll look into it today. How about 90/10 Cupronickel? I believe that naval brass is originally a 60/40 alloy with 1% of zinc added... Of course, it just doesn't sound right to say you have a cupronickel backplate... <grin> >I make stainless plates in 1/4", they weigh about 10.5 for the regular, and >13 for the large. So the weights that you quoted were for 1/4" brass also? >Mine wouldn't get polished for very long... I had to polish way to many brass things during my hitch in the Navy... I quickly learned that I like the patina of brass that was not polished... Especially one that was not polished by *me*... > You know, that is kind of a cool idea. Of course to do it *right*, we would also need to have brass D-rings, keepers, and the harness buckle... If these are not commercially available, I suspect that at least the D-rings and keepers could be cut out with your water jet from the brass stock... Perhaps 1/8" sheet would work instead of the 1/4" that I had previously suggested for the backplate... Hmmm... There's also the issue of the tank bands, but I suspect that one could get them make out of brass also... Perhaps 1/8" brass would be thick enough... Now, we have tanks that would still be silver / gray and to complete the 'look', I guess we would need to get them electroplated in brass or something... Although I suspect that it would be possible to have tanks custom made out of solid brass, it would probably be extremely cost prohibitive... Hmmm.. Maybe that would be carrying this idea just a little too far... <grin> >>You know, that is kind of a cool idea. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > prohibitive... Hmmm.. Maybe that would be carrying this idea just a little > too far... <grin> Just paint them in a glossy black. Should fit nicely with the brass.  SignatureMichael Wolf ----- Cthulhu For President. Why settle for the lesser evil? remove stopspam to reply > Just paint them in a glossy black. Should fit nicely with the brass. Bingo. Porcelain white or inspection boot black. Scott > Porcelain white or inspection boot black. Nawh, that's only if you wanted your brass backplate to remain shiny... I like the aged look it gets where it turns nearly black with perhaps a slight tint of green or blue in it... Wearing it before it had started to develop the patina would be like when we used to have to wear new jeans back in the days before they sold pre-washed / acid-washed / stone-washed ones... On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:03:51 +0100, Michael Wolf <michael.wolf@advalvasstopspam.be> wrote ... >Just paint them in a glossy black. Should fit nicely with the brass. That sounds like the USD tanks that I had back in the early 1980s... Perhaps put some fake barnacles on the tanks to give them that truly antique look... <grin> I can just see the look on the dive shop's face when you bring a barnacle encrusted tank to them and ask for a fill... <snicker> > I've been looking at going the backplate route for awhile now. I've > searched the Google archives to see which companies make backplates. With [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does anyone on the group own this backplate and have an opinion of it that > they would like to share? it works as well as any - the ones we had a cibdiving.com are bead blasted for a satin finish. i haven't talked to bob recently but i think he's currently out of stock - take a look on ebay if he still has any he's probably got it listed there - you might save a little. to be honest (i hope bob doesn't see this) go with one of scotts STAs the S&Ws are a little weird, the bend to keep them from moving around isn't needed and doesn't do much when the wing is in place anyway. > I've been looking at going the backplate route for awhile now. I've > searched the Google archives to see which companies make backplates. With [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does anyone on the group own this backplate and have an opinion of it that > they would like to share? Kimber had a gear for sale list including (I think) a backplate. ping her and ask if she still has it and what the price would be. rhys > Kimber had a gear for sale list including (I think) a backplate. > ping her and ask if she still has it and what the price would be. Heh -- thanks. I still have an AL BP for sale. Kimber |
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