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Scuba Forum / General / November 2003

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Going diving soon!!!!  Comments/advice please.

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Steve Wilbur - 23 Nov 2003 20:28 GMT
Hi!

Well, I completed my Open-Water certification dives in Whittier, Alaska on
November 8th & 9th. Water temp was about 5C, so we had to wear drysuits,
thick gloves, etc. I had to be weighted down with 50 lbs of lead plus
ankle weights - I felt like a slow-moving bus under 15m of water.

The good news is that Thursday I leave for a month's worth of diving in
Australia. I think I have pretty much all the gear I need (except tanks
and weights, which are included in the boat dive packages), except maybe
for some hot weather gear which I might just get while I'm down there. The
selection of hot-weather stuff at REI in Alaska is rather limited, esp.
this time of year.

Anyway - I suspect that I will definitely be the novice on these boats and
I'm just wondering how to deal with situations. For example - I get teamed
up with someone super-experienced who isn't going to have a whole lot of
patience for my level of ability, someone without much patience in the
length of my air supply, someone who seems unsafe, someone I just don't
feel comfortable with, someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose,
whatever may come up.  

Now, I do have a total of about 55 dives scheduled during this trip, and I
will be taking an Advanced course which covers a few things I guess - so I
suspect I will get better as the trip goes on, but I suspect my ability
will still be rather lacking compared to whomever else is on the boats.
Anyway, advice and suggestions on these issues are appreciated (flames can
be sent to me personally at swilbur@whitehouse.gov).

Thanks!
 -sw
Schmoe - 23 Nov 2003 20:59 GMT
> Hi!
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> feel comfortable with, someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose,
> whatever may come up.

For your first 5-10 dives, ask if you can team with the divemaster as a dive
buddy. By then should be comfortable enough to dive with most people.
Congrats on the O/W cert and your cujones to get it in Alaskan waters. Have
a great trip!
Steve Wilbur - 23 Nov 2003 22:14 GMT
> For your first 5-10 dives, ask if you can team with the divemaster as a dive
> buddy. By then should be comfortable enough to dive with most people.
> Congrats on the O/W cert and your cujones to get it in Alaskan waters. Have
> a great trip!

Hey, thanks. I'll add this to my tip file. As for Alaska waters - well, I
figure  I'm going to dive here when I get back, I might as well learn
here. (:

In article <kp9wb.19943$y9.10732@twister.socal.rr.com>, "Bob and Mary
Beard" <beardm001@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> If you are scheduled to do all this diving, and somewhere in the mix you
> are doing an Advanced Open Water type of course, then I would suggest that
> you do the Advanced course first.

Argh - the schedule didn't work out QUITE that way, but it's close. I have
four liveaboard trips, a 3d/3n, a 3d/3n, a 7d/6n, and a 3d/2n. The
advanced course is on the second trip, which leaves me to make the 10 or
so dives on the first trip, well, first.

> Being in water that has temperatures approaching 20 degrees C will also
> be a big help to you. There is something about jumping into not-warm water
> that reduces the fun factor.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

> Relax....and use your head. You will be fine. Every single person going
> under the water has been where you are. Be honest about your skill level and
> you will find that most divers will go out of their way to lend you a hand.

Hey, thanks for the encouragement.

In article <ID9wb.18859$Wy4.11684@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Lee
Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:

> Talk to the DM in advance, expressing your preference for somebody of
> comparable skill or, failing that, somebody that does not mind accompanying
> a relative newbie.  Expect that an experienced diver may not want to be
> paired with you on every dive, but may not mind at all for relatively
> unchallanging dives.  If there's nobody else, talk to the DM about being his
> buddy.

Good idea - maybe I'll just give him a copy of my e-mail and the
suggestions I've been getting on here. (:

> 8^) First you're worried about somebody more experienced.  Now you're worred
> about somebody unsafe.  This one is actually easier.  Don't accept a buddy
> you think is unsafe.

Well, maybe I'll get teamed up with a drunk - I dunno how this works. (:

> > . . . someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose
> Report them to the DM . . . if you survive.

OK, I was kinda kidding on that one. If that happens to me, and I survive,
I'm pretty sure I'll take care of it myself. (:

> Nobody can tell you what to do in every situation.   You're qualified to
> dive and, if you can dive in Alaska, you're going to find diving in
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> have, the advice will be much the same, but the diving will be a bit
> different . . . probably.

Hey, thanks. (:

> Here's some advice.  Don't use your official e-mail address for newsgroup
> messages.  The odds of getting hundreds of advertisements, including porno,
> is too high and, as a fellow government employee, I can assure you that your
> office will not appreciate porn or viruses.

Oh, well, I was kidding on that too. I stopped using my real email address
on Usenet some time around 1990. (:

Thanks all!
 -sw
Lee Bell - 24 Nov 2003 08:48 GMT
> > 8^) First you're worried about somebody more experienced.  Now you're worred
> > about somebody unsafe.  This one is actually easier.  Don't accept a buddy
> > you think is unsafe.
>
> Well, maybe I'll get teamed up with a drunk - I dunno how this works. (:

OK, here's how it works.  "No."  See how easy it is?

> Oh, well, I was kidding on that too. I stopped using my real email address
> on Usenet some time around 1990. (:

Good enough.  Not everybody knows to.

Lee
Bob and Mary Beard - 23 Nov 2003 21:12 GMT
> Hi!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Now, I do have a total of about 55 dives scheduled during this trip, and I
> will be taking an Advanced course which covers a few things
---------------------------------------------------------
 Steve:
 It's good that you are thinking of situations to come. The mere fact that
you are aware that you could be a problem to someone else is a good
indication that you are in the learning mode and therefore going to be less
of a problem. Make sense?
   If you are scheduled to do all this diving, and somewhere in the mix you
are doing an Advanced Open Water type of course, then I would suggest that
you do the Advanced course first. There are a couple of reasons for this:
1) you get further training
2)your dives will, of necessity, be with an instructor, thereby decreasing
your apprehension while upgrading your experience and skill level.
3) the Advanced course will most likely be on the same type of dives that
you will be wanting to do later on so you will see what is going on, meet
some people, and find out that most people who dive are not Water Gods. They
are merely people (like you) who think cruising around underwater is a fun
thing to do.
   Being in water that has temperatures approaching 20 degrees C will also
be a big help to you. There is something about jumping into not-warm water
that reduces the fun factor.
   Relax....and use your head. You will be fine. Every single person going
under the water has been where you are. Be honest about your skill level and
you will find that most divers will go out of their way to lend you a hand.
   Have a great trip.
   Bob
Lee Bell - 23 Nov 2003 21:28 GMT
> Anyway - I suspect that I will definitely be the novice on these boats and
> I'm just wondering how to deal with situations. For example - I get teamed
> up with someone super-experienced who isn't going to have a whole lot of
> patience for my level of ability . . .

Talk to the DM in advance, expressing your preference for somebody of
comparable skill or, failing that, somebody that does not mind accompanying
a relative newbie.  Expect that an experienced diver may not want to be
paired with you on every dive, but may not mind at all for relatively
unchallanging dives.  If there's nobody else, talk to the DM about being his
buddy.

> . . . someone without much patience in the length of my air supply . . .

Talk about this one in advance too.  There may be options for different size
tanks or you may find somebody that's comfortable with your ascending alone,
assuming, of course, that you're comfortable with this.  If you're not, say
so in advance.  Do not exceed your comfort level just to keep from
inconveniencing somebody else.  Stretch your limits a bit if you like, but
only because you wish to expand them, not because you think somebody else
will be less inconvenienced.  Trust me, nothing is as inconvenient as a
diver who has exceeded his limits and paid the price.

> . . . someone who seems unsafe . . .

8^) First you're worried about somebody more experienced.  Now you're worred
about somebody unsafe.  This one is actually easier.  Don't accept a buddy
you think is unsafe.

> . . . someone I just don't feel comfortable with . . .

Depends on what you mean.  If you think they're unsafe. don't dive with
them.  If you think you'll not get along, ask for somebody else, but be
prepared to accept some inconvenience.  After all, you came without a buddy
too.

> . . . someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose

Report them to the DM . . . if you survive.

> . . . whatever may come up.

Nobody can tell you what to do in every situation.   You're qualified to
dive and, if you can dive in Alaska, you're going to find diving in
Australia, at least in the warmer portions of Australia, to be easier and
safer.  Use your head, think about the risks you are taking and stick with
what you are comfortable with.  Be open and honest with the operator and DM.
When you've done a couple thousand dives, as several people in this group
have, the advice will be much the same, but the diving will be a bit
different . . . probably.

> Now, I do have a total of about 55 dives scheduled during this trip, and I
> will be taking an Advanced course which covers a few things I guess - so I
> suspect I will get better as the trip goes on, but I suspect my ability
> will still be rather lacking compared to whomever else is on the boats.

Do the best you can.  That's all anybody can ask.

> Anyway, advice and suggestions on these issues are appreciated (flames can
> be sent to me personally at swilbur@whitehouse.gov).

Here's some advice.  Don't use your official e-mail address for newsgroup
messages.  The odds of getting hundreds of advertisements, including porno,
is too high and, as a fellow government employee, I can assure you that your
office will not appreciate porn or viruses.

Lee
Ness - 24 Nov 2003 13:13 GMT
"Steve Wilbur" wrote...
> The good news is that Thursday I leave for a month's worth of diving in
> Australia.
Wow! A month diving here, you'll get to see a good diversity of our marine
life in that time.
Where will you be diving while you're here?

> Anyway - I suspect that I will definitely be the novice on these boats
Depending on the boats, but I certainly don't think so.
In the touristy areas, a lot of the people on the liveaboards are there
doing their OW themselves.

> For example - I get teamed
> up with someone super-experienced who isn't going to have a whole lot of
> patience for my level of ability
Someone super-experienced is usually going to bring their own buddy, or will
sort out with the boat staff that they don't get "lumped" with a newbie if
that's how they feel.

> someone without much patience in the length of my air supply
I'm not sure where you're diving or what your current air consumption rates
are, but in all honesty, in most places you're likely to visit your times
will be limited by the dive staff and you won't have to worry much about air
consumption rates. EG you'll all be given a dive time of 45 mins, and you're
likely to be able to last that long on your single. At least, in the warm
clear waters of the GBR you should be able to... the diving's not very deep.

> someone who seems unsafe, someone I just don't
> feel comfortable with
That one's easy... pull the dive staff aside and tell them you're not
comfortable with your assigned buddy and you'd prefer to team up with
another buddy pair. Happens all the time, and we're more than happy to
shuffle pairs around when required.

A couple of other things to remember... are you bringing your own
regs/computer or hiring while over here? Just remember we work in metrics,
and I'm not sure about all the boats you're going to be going on, but we
usually brief the punters in metric - that is, max depth in metres, tanks in
litres, and min air remaining in bar.

In Queensland your diving will be fairly regulated, again depending on the
boats you use, but we have some pretty strict regulations for diving in this
state. Some dive staff have been known to ask to actually view your computer
for post-dive depth/time info (not trusting their punters to provide
truthful information), and some will even go so far as to ban reverse
profiles and will keep you out of the water for 6 hours if you dare to dive
a reverse profile. (Reverse profiles are where dive 2 is deeper than dive 1,
and were previously thought to have been evocotive profiles for DCS, but
they've since been proven to be fairly safe). The rest of our Qld
regulations probably won't affect you as a tourist diver... oh, except that
you'll need cylumes for night dives, and it'll be cheaper to pick these up
from a hardware store on land before getting on the boats, or buy a
battery-powered strobe that'll last a lot longer.

If you're after any tips on East Coast diving or operators, drop me a line.

Ness
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What lies at the bottom of the ocean and twitches?
A nervous wreck.
Lee Bell - 24 Nov 2003 14:21 GMT
> A couple of other things to remember... are you bringing your own
> regs/computer or hiring while over here? Just remember we work in metrics,
> and I'm not sure about all the boats you're going to be going on, but we
> usually brief the punters in metric - that is, max depth in metres, tanks in
> litres, and min air remaining in bar.

Good points.  Here's some conversions that will help.  I've provided actual
and "working" conversions.
1 meter is 3.28 feet.  If you use 3 feet, you'll stay out of trouble with
the crew, always being less than whatever limit they set for you.  You'll
have to discuss maximum depths with the operators.  U.S. training agencies
usually stipulate 60 feet for open water divers and 130 feet for advanced
divers.  I don't know what the depths will be in Australia, but most
operators here routinely plan dives for more than 60 feet.

1 bar is 14.5 psi.  It's not quite 1 ata, but it's close.  For quick
conversions, I'd probably use 15 psi.  That way, you'll come up with more
gas than stipulated by the operator.  If they say come up with 50 bar,
that's 725 psi, not the 500 psi that's commonly required in the U.S.

> (Reverse profiles are where dive 2 is deeper than dive 1,
> and were previously thought to have been evocotive profiles for DCS, but
> they've since been proven to be fairly safe).

Nitpicking point.  It's been determined that there is little or no reason to
consider them more dangerous than other profiles.  Reverse profiles tend to
reduce total dive time and, if for no other reason, tend to be avoided by
recreational divers.

> The rest of our Qld regulations probably won't affect you as a tourist
diver... oh, except that
> you'll need cylumes for night dives, and it'll be cheaper to pick these up
> from a hardware store on land before getting on the boats, or buy a
> battery-powered strobe that'll last a lot longer.

I suggest against purchasing a strobe.  They tend to be unpopular here in
the states.  They can be quite distracting for other divers and, since they
are commonly used to mark the anchor line, have been known to cause
navigation problems for some divers.  A white strobe, on the surface, is an
emergency signal.  Depending on the diving, I like battery operated tank
markers better than cyalume sticks.  I also carry a ACR Firefly (I think
that's the name), which is a relatively inexpensive flashlight on one one
end and personal white strobe on the other . . . just in case.  You can find
them at boating stores cheaper than at dive shops.

Lee
Nitespark - 24 Nov 2003 14:35 GMT
> I suggest against purchasing a strobe.  They tend to be unpopular here in
> the states.  They can be quite distracting for other divers and, since they
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> end and personal white strobe on the other . . . just in case.  You can find
> them at boating stores cheaper than at dive shops.

Lee,
I will agree with you on the strobe.  I was always told that a strobe is
used for marking an anchorline, exit point, etc....or it designates the
divemaster or leader of the dive.

One note, there are some places where the cyalumes are prohibited such
as Bonaire.  A few years ago, when I was in Curacao, I used a cyalume on
a night dive, but checked before I used it.  They are OK in Curacao, but
not in Bonaire which is less than 100 miles away.

Best to check ahead of time.

Andy

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Narced Diver - 24 Nov 2003 17:46 GMT
> One note, there are some places where the cyalumes are prohibited such
> as Bonaire.  A few years ago, when I was in Curacao, I used a cyalume on
> a night dive, but checked before I used it.  They are OK in Curacao, but
> not in Bonaire which is less than 100 miles away.

Any idea what their "logic" is on this?  Possible toxicity concerns to the
reef if the cyalume is broken?
Dan Bracuk, CTHD - 27 Nov 2003 02:18 GMT
Nitespark <nitespark@cox.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
in:
:I will agree with you on the strobe.  I was always told that a strobe is
:used for marking an anchorline, exit point, etc....or it designates the
:divemaster or leader of the dive.

Anchorlines or exit points, ok.  Divemasters, forget it, too annoying.

Dan Bracuk
If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure.
The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/
rnf2 - 25 Nov 2003 00:26 GMT
 U.S. training agencies
> usually stipulate 60 feet for open water divers and 130 feet for advanced
> divers.
>
> Lee

Metric it's normally 18M basic/OW level divers and 40M advanced/deep divers.
while the recommendation is to stay above 30M.

Thats what NZ dive ops normally reqiure, and what PADI Australia has in the
manuals.

rhys
Ness - 25 Nov 2003 08:29 GMT
Hiya Lee!

Just thought I'd follow up on a couple of the things you mentioned...

"Lee Bell" wrote...
> U.S. training agencies
> usually stipulate 60 feet for open water divers and 130 feet for advanced
> divers.  I don't know what the depths will be in Australia, but most
> operators here routinely plan dives for more than 60 feet.
OK, again, I'm not sure what boats the OP is going to be diving from, but
I've dived off a lot of boats & liveaboards on the East Coast now, so *as a
general rule*, especially where the "touristy" North Qld operators are
concerned, OW is 18m, AOW is 30m, and 30-40m = Deep cert. Not a lot of
tourist diving occurs in the 30m+ range.

> If they say come up with 50 bar,
> that's 725 psi, not the 500 psi that's commonly required in the U.S.
Yes, and some boats will brief you on surfacing with 40 bar, that's 580psi,
but that is still more than the 500psi that US operators usually use.
If the OP could hire metric gauges for the trip, it might reduce confusion?
I've seen DMs get flustered when someone gives them readings in psi :-)

> Nitpicking point.  It's been determined that there is little or no reason to
> consider them more dangerous than other profiles.  Reverse profiles tend to
> reduce total dive time and, if for no other reason, tend to be avoided by
> recreational divers.
Yes, agreed, but it is a point to note.
A lot of the tourist operators in FNQ will drag you down to 25m on the first
dive of the day, then freak if you go to 26m on the second dive...
I've seen a lot of stupid bounce dives first up in the mornings for no
reason other than to guarantee the diver isn't penalised in later dives that
day.
A very backwards attitude that some of the operators maintain :-(

> > you'll need cylumes for night dives, and it'll be cheaper to pick these up
> > from a hardware store on land before getting on the boats, or buy a
> > battery-powered strobe that'll last a lot longer.
> I suggest against purchasing a strobe.
OOPS!
Okay, I definately agree here - sorry I used the wrong terminology, it was
late over here!
I meant a "battery operated tank marker". A constant light not a flashing
light.
I use these : http://www.glotoob.com/
Yes, strobes which flash are also often used as anchor line markers here
too.
Sorry for the confusion!

Ness
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What lies at the bottom of the ocean and twitches?
A nervous wreck.

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