Scuba Forum / General / November 2003
Going diving soon!!!! Comments/advice please.
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Steve Wilbur - 23 Nov 2003 20:28 GMT Hi!
Well, I completed my Open-Water certification dives in Whittier, Alaska on November 8th & 9th. Water temp was about 5C, so we had to wear drysuits, thick gloves, etc. I had to be weighted down with 50 lbs of lead plus ankle weights - I felt like a slow-moving bus under 15m of water.
The good news is that Thursday I leave for a month's worth of diving in Australia. I think I have pretty much all the gear I need (except tanks and weights, which are included in the boat dive packages), except maybe for some hot weather gear which I might just get while I'm down there. The selection of hot-weather stuff at REI in Alaska is rather limited, esp. this time of year.
Anyway - I suspect that I will definitely be the novice on these boats and I'm just wondering how to deal with situations. For example - I get teamed up with someone super-experienced who isn't going to have a whole lot of patience for my level of ability, someone without much patience in the length of my air supply, someone who seems unsafe, someone I just don't feel comfortable with, someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose, whatever may come up.
Now, I do have a total of about 55 dives scheduled during this trip, and I will be taking an Advanced course which covers a few things I guess - so I suspect I will get better as the trip goes on, but I suspect my ability will still be rather lacking compared to whomever else is on the boats. Anyway, advice and suggestions on these issues are appreciated (flames can be sent to me personally at swilbur@whitehouse.gov).
Thanks! -sw
Schmoe - 23 Nov 2003 20:59 GMT > Hi! > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > feel comfortable with, someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose, > whatever may come up. For your first 5-10 dives, ask if you can team with the divemaster as a dive buddy. By then should be comfortable enough to dive with most people. Congrats on the O/W cert and your cujones to get it in Alaskan waters. Have a great trip!
Steve Wilbur - 23 Nov 2003 22:14 GMT > For your first 5-10 dives, ask if you can team with the divemaster as a dive > buddy. By then should be comfortable enough to dive with most people. > Congrats on the O/W cert and your cujones to get it in Alaskan waters. Have > a great trip! Hey, thanks. I'll add this to my tip file. As for Alaska waters - well, I figure I'm going to dive here when I get back, I might as well learn here. (:
In article <kp9wb.19943$y9.10732@twister.socal.rr.com>, "Bob and Mary Beard" <beardm001@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> If you are scheduled to do all this diving, and somewhere in the mix you > are doing an Advanced Open Water type of course, then I would suggest that > you do the Advanced course first. Argh - the schedule didn't work out QUITE that way, but it's close. I have four liveaboard trips, a 3d/3n, a 3d/3n, a 7d/6n, and a 3d/2n. The advanced course is on the second trip, which leaves me to make the 10 or so dives on the first trip, well, first.
> Being in water that has temperatures approaching 20 degrees C will also > be a big help to you. There is something about jumping into not-warm water > that reduces the fun factor. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
> Relax....and use your head. You will be fine. Every single person going > under the water has been where you are. Be honest about your skill level and > you will find that most divers will go out of their way to lend you a hand. Hey, thanks for the encouragement.
In article <ID9wb.18859$Wy4.11684@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
> Talk to the DM in advance, expressing your preference for somebody of > comparable skill or, failing that, somebody that does not mind accompanying > a relative newbie. Expect that an experienced diver may not want to be > paired with you on every dive, but may not mind at all for relatively > unchallanging dives. If there's nobody else, talk to the DM about being his > buddy. Good idea - maybe I'll just give him a copy of my e-mail and the suggestions I've been getting on here. (:
> 8^) First you're worried about somebody more experienced. Now you're worred > about somebody unsafe. This one is actually easier. Don't accept a buddy > you think is unsafe. Well, maybe I'll get teamed up with a drunk - I dunno how this works. (:
> > . . . someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose > Report them to the DM . . . if you survive. OK, I was kinda kidding on that one. If that happens to me, and I survive, I'm pretty sure I'll take care of it myself. (:
> Nobody can tell you what to do in every situation. You're qualified to > dive and, if you can dive in Alaska, you're going to find diving in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have, the advice will be much the same, but the diving will be a bit > different . . . probably. Hey, thanks. (:
> Here's some advice. Don't use your official e-mail address for newsgroup > messages. The odds of getting hundreds of advertisements, including porno, > is too high and, as a fellow government employee, I can assure you that your > office will not appreciate porn or viruses. Oh, well, I was kidding on that too. I stopped using my real email address on Usenet some time around 1990. (:
Thanks all! -sw
Lee Bell - 24 Nov 2003 08:48 GMT > > 8^) First you're worried about somebody more experienced. Now you're worred > > about somebody unsafe. This one is actually easier. Don't accept a buddy > > you think is unsafe. > > Well, maybe I'll get teamed up with a drunk - I dunno how this works. (: OK, here's how it works. "No." See how easy it is?
> Oh, well, I was kidding on that too. I stopped using my real email address > on Usenet some time around 1990. (: Good enough. Not everybody knows to.
Lee
Bob and Mary Beard - 23 Nov 2003 21:12 GMT > Hi! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Now, I do have a total of about 55 dives scheduled during this trip, and I > will be taking an Advanced course which covers a few things --------------------------------------------------------- Steve: It's good that you are thinking of situations to come. The mere fact that you are aware that you could be a problem to someone else is a good indication that you are in the learning mode and therefore going to be less of a problem. Make sense? If you are scheduled to do all this diving, and somewhere in the mix you are doing an Advanced Open Water type of course, then I would suggest that you do the Advanced course first. There are a couple of reasons for this: 1) you get further training 2)your dives will, of necessity, be with an instructor, thereby decreasing your apprehension while upgrading your experience and skill level. 3) the Advanced course will most likely be on the same type of dives that you will be wanting to do later on so you will see what is going on, meet some people, and find out that most people who dive are not Water Gods. They are merely people (like you) who think cruising around underwater is a fun thing to do. Being in water that has temperatures approaching 20 degrees C will also be a big help to you. There is something about jumping into not-warm water that reduces the fun factor. Relax....and use your head. You will be fine. Every single person going under the water has been where you are. Be honest about your skill level and you will find that most divers will go out of their way to lend you a hand. Have a great trip. Bob
Lee Bell - 23 Nov 2003 21:28 GMT > Anyway - I suspect that I will definitely be the novice on these boats and > I'm just wondering how to deal with situations. For example - I get teamed > up with someone super-experienced who isn't going to have a whole lot of > patience for my level of ability . . . Talk to the DM in advance, expressing your preference for somebody of comparable skill or, failing that, somebody that does not mind accompanying a relative newbie. Expect that an experienced diver may not want to be paired with you on every dive, but may not mind at all for relatively unchallanging dives. If there's nobody else, talk to the DM about being his buddy.
> . . . someone without much patience in the length of my air supply . . . Talk about this one in advance too. There may be options for different size tanks or you may find somebody that's comfortable with your ascending alone, assuming, of course, that you're comfortable with this. If you're not, say so in advance. Do not exceed your comfort level just to keep from inconveniencing somebody else. Stretch your limits a bit if you like, but only because you wish to expand them, not because you think somebody else will be less inconvenienced. Trust me, nothing is as inconvenient as a diver who has exceeded his limits and paid the price.
> . . . someone who seems unsafe . . . 8^) First you're worried about somebody more experienced. Now you're worred about somebody unsafe. This one is actually easier. Don't accept a buddy you think is unsafe.
> . . . someone I just don't feel comfortable with . . . Depends on what you mean. If you think they're unsafe. don't dive with them. If you think you'll not get along, ask for somebody else, but be prepared to accept some inconvenience. After all, you came without a buddy too.
> . . . someone who takes their knife and cuts my hose Report them to the DM . . . if you survive.
> . . . whatever may come up. Nobody can tell you what to do in every situation. You're qualified to dive and, if you can dive in Alaska, you're going to find diving in Australia, at least in the warmer portions of Australia, to be easier and safer. Use your head, think about the risks you are taking and stick with what you are comfortable with. Be open and honest with the operator and DM. When you've done a couple thousand dives, as several people in this group have, the advice will be much the same, but the diving will be a bit different . . . probably.
> Now, I do have a total of about 55 dives scheduled during this trip, and I > will be taking an Advanced course which covers a few things I guess - so I > suspect I will get better as the trip goes on, but I suspect my ability > will still be rather lacking compared to whomever else is on the boats. Do the best you can. That's all anybody can ask.
> Anyway, advice and suggestions on these issues are appreciated (flames can > be sent to me personally at swilbur@whitehouse.gov). Here's some advice. Don't use your official e-mail address for newsgroup messages. The odds of getting hundreds of advertisements, including porno, is too high and, as a fellow government employee, I can assure you that your office will not appreciate porn or viruses.
Lee
Ness - 24 Nov 2003 13:13 GMT "Steve Wilbur" wrote...
> The good news is that Thursday I leave for a month's worth of diving in > Australia. Wow! A month diving here, you'll get to see a good diversity of our marine life in that time. Where will you be diving while you're here?
> Anyway - I suspect that I will definitely be the novice on these boats Depending on the boats, but I certainly don't think so. In the touristy areas, a lot of the people on the liveaboards are there doing their OW themselves.
> For example - I get teamed > up with someone super-experienced who isn't going to have a whole lot of > patience for my level of ability Someone super-experienced is usually going to bring their own buddy, or will sort out with the boat staff that they don't get "lumped" with a newbie if that's how they feel.
> someone without much patience in the length of my air supply I'm not sure where you're diving or what your current air consumption rates are, but in all honesty, in most places you're likely to visit your times will be limited by the dive staff and you won't have to worry much about air consumption rates. EG you'll all be given a dive time of 45 mins, and you're likely to be able to last that long on your single. At least, in the warm clear waters of the GBR you should be able to... the diving's not very deep.
> someone who seems unsafe, someone I just don't > feel comfortable with That one's easy... pull the dive staff aside and tell them you're not comfortable with your assigned buddy and you'd prefer to team up with another buddy pair. Happens all the time, and we're more than happy to shuffle pairs around when required.
A couple of other things to remember... are you bringing your own regs/computer or hiring while over here? Just remember we work in metrics, and I'm not sure about all the boats you're going to be going on, but we usually brief the punters in metric - that is, max depth in metres, tanks in litres, and min air remaining in bar.
In Queensland your diving will be fairly regulated, again depending on the boats you use, but we have some pretty strict regulations for diving in this state. Some dive staff have been known to ask to actually view your computer for post-dive depth/time info (not trusting their punters to provide truthful information), and some will even go so far as to ban reverse profiles and will keep you out of the water for 6 hours if you dare to dive a reverse profile. (Reverse profiles are where dive 2 is deeper than dive 1, and were previously thought to have been evocotive profiles for DCS, but they've since been proven to be fairly safe). The rest of our Qld regulations probably won't affect you as a tourist diver... oh, except that you'll need cylumes for night dives, and it'll be cheaper to pick these up from a hardware store on land before getting on the boats, or buy a battery-powered strobe that'll last a lot longer.
If you're after any tips on East Coast diving or operators, drop me a line.
Ness ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What lies at the bottom of the ocean and twitches? A nervous wreck.
Lee Bell - 24 Nov 2003 14:21 GMT > A couple of other things to remember... are you bringing your own > regs/computer or hiring while over here? Just remember we work in metrics, > and I'm not sure about all the boats you're going to be going on, but we > usually brief the punters in metric - that is, max depth in metres, tanks in > litres, and min air remaining in bar. Good points. Here's some conversions that will help. I've provided actual and "working" conversions. 1 meter is 3.28 feet. If you use 3 feet, you'll stay out of trouble with the crew, always being less than whatever limit they set for you. You'll have to discuss maximum depths with the operators. U.S. training agencies usually stipulate 60 feet for open water divers and 130 feet for advanced divers. I don't know what the depths will be in Australia, but most operators here routinely plan dives for more than 60 feet.
1 bar is 14.5 psi. It's not quite 1 ata, but it's close. For quick conversions, I'd probably use 15 psi. That way, you'll come up with more gas than stipulated by the operator. If they say come up with 50 bar, that's 725 psi, not the 500 psi that's commonly required in the U.S.
> (Reverse profiles are where dive 2 is deeper than dive 1, > and were previously thought to have been evocotive profiles for DCS, but > they've since been proven to be fairly safe). Nitpicking point. It's been determined that there is little or no reason to consider them more dangerous than other profiles. Reverse profiles tend to reduce total dive time and, if for no other reason, tend to be avoided by recreational divers.
> The rest of our Qld regulations probably won't affect you as a tourist diver... oh, except that
> you'll need cylumes for night dives, and it'll be cheaper to pick these up > from a hardware store on land before getting on the boats, or buy a > battery-powered strobe that'll last a lot longer. I suggest against purchasing a strobe. They tend to be unpopular here in the states. They can be quite distracting for other divers and, since they are commonly used to mark the anchor line, have been known to cause navigation problems for some divers. A white strobe, on the surface, is an emergency signal. Depending on the diving, I like battery operated tank markers better than cyalume sticks. I also carry a ACR Firefly (I think that's the name), which is a relatively inexpensive flashlight on one one end and personal white strobe on the other . . . just in case. You can find them at boating stores cheaper than at dive shops.
Lee
Nitespark - 24 Nov 2003 14:35 GMT > I suggest against purchasing a strobe. They tend to be unpopular here in > the states. They can be quite distracting for other divers and, since they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > end and personal white strobe on the other . . . just in case. You can find > them at boating stores cheaper than at dive shops. Lee, I will agree with you on the strobe. I was always told that a strobe is used for marking an anchorline, exit point, etc....or it designates the divemaster or leader of the dive.
One note, there are some places where the cyalumes are prohibited such as Bonaire. A few years ago, when I was in Curacao, I used a cyalume on a night dive, but checked before I used it. They are OK in Curacao, but not in Bonaire which is less than 100 miles away.
Best to check ahead of time.
Andy
 Signature “Genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration”- Thomas Edison
“If Mr. Edison didn’t perspire so much, he would get more accomplished”- Nikola Tesla
Narced Diver - 24 Nov 2003 17:46 GMT > One note, there are some places where the cyalumes are prohibited such > as Bonaire. A few years ago, when I was in Curacao, I used a cyalume on > a night dive, but checked before I used it. They are OK in Curacao, but > not in Bonaire which is less than 100 miles away. Any idea what their "logic" is on this? Possible toxicity concerns to the reef if the cyalume is broken?
Dan Bracuk, CTHD - 27 Nov 2003 02:18 GMT Nitespark <nitespark@cox.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:
:I will agree with you on the strobe. I was always told that a strobe is :used for marking an anchorline, exit point, etc....or it designates the :divemaster or leader of the dive. Anchorlines or exit points, ok. Divemasters, forget it, too annoying.
Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/
rnf2 - 25 Nov 2003 00:26 GMT U.S. training agencies
> usually stipulate 60 feet for open water divers and 130 feet for advanced > divers. > > Lee Metric it's normally 18M basic/OW level divers and 40M advanced/deep divers. while the recommendation is to stay above 30M.
Thats what NZ dive ops normally reqiure, and what PADI Australia has in the manuals.
rhys
Ness - 25 Nov 2003 08:29 GMT Hiya Lee!
Just thought I'd follow up on a couple of the things you mentioned...
"Lee Bell" wrote...
> U.S. training agencies > usually stipulate 60 feet for open water divers and 130 feet for advanced > divers. I don't know what the depths will be in Australia, but most > operators here routinely plan dives for more than 60 feet. OK, again, I'm not sure what boats the OP is going to be diving from, but I've dived off a lot of boats & liveaboards on the East Coast now, so *as a general rule*, especially where the "touristy" North Qld operators are concerned, OW is 18m, AOW is 30m, and 30-40m = Deep cert. Not a lot of tourist diving occurs in the 30m+ range.
> If they say come up with 50 bar, > that's 725 psi, not the 500 psi that's commonly required in the U.S. Yes, and some boats will brief you on surfacing with 40 bar, that's 580psi, but that is still more than the 500psi that US operators usually use. If the OP could hire metric gauges for the trip, it might reduce confusion? I've seen DMs get flustered when someone gives them readings in psi :-)
> Nitpicking point. It's been determined that there is little or no reason to > consider them more dangerous than other profiles. Reverse profiles tend to > reduce total dive time and, if for no other reason, tend to be avoided by > recreational divers. Yes, agreed, but it is a point to note. A lot of the tourist operators in FNQ will drag you down to 25m on the first dive of the day, then freak if you go to 26m on the second dive... I've seen a lot of stupid bounce dives first up in the mornings for no reason other than to guarantee the diver isn't penalised in later dives that day. A very backwards attitude that some of the operators maintain :-(
> > you'll need cylumes for night dives, and it'll be cheaper to pick these up > > from a hardware store on land before getting on the boats, or buy a > > battery-powered strobe that'll last a lot longer. > I suggest against purchasing a strobe. OOPS! Okay, I definately agree here - sorry I used the wrong terminology, it was late over here! I meant a "battery operated tank marker". A constant light not a flashing light. I use these : http://www.glotoob.com/ Yes, strobes which flash are also often used as anchor line markers here too. Sorry for the confusion!
Ness ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What lies at the bottom of the ocean and twitches? A nervous wreck.
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