 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeArticlesDiving DestinationsLearning Scuba DivingMarine LifeMiscellaneousDiscussion GroupsGeneralScuba EquipmentScuba LocationsAustralian ScubaUK ScubaDirectoryScuba Clubs |
Scuba Forum / General / August 2005Undertow/current (OT?)
Undertow/current (OT?) I was in Thailand last week, (Koh Chang, White Sand Beach just outside Banpu Koh Chang Hotel) with my son and his friend, both are 12-13 years of age, I can breast swim well but not crawl and the boys are ok swimmers for their age. The waves (about one meter high) were coming in towards the shore and we went out a bit. The boys went out as far as they could stand up and still have their heads above the water. Me I was a bit behind them. Suddenly I felt like a current taking hold of my legs pulling towards the sea. I screamed at the boys to come to me but they couldn't come much closer to me so I got out and got my boy who was closest to me and took him towards the shore a bit so he could walk. Then I went out for the other boy (who is just as tall as me - I am short) and screamed as high as I could to him to get to me because I wasn't sure he had understood what it was all about. He did a great effort and swimmed to me (crawled) and came to my position where I held him for a short while when he was tired but the waves were still coming in over us and somehow I lost hold of him even though he remained close to me. Then a tall guy who originally was at the beach had come out to one meter or so from my position but closer to the shore and he told me that we should grab hold of each other and we did, me in the middle. It was much harder than I could ever have thought to start moving to the shore even though we were two men helping each other - it was really, really slow in the beginning. Now I have tried to read about advice what to do in this kind of situation and to understand what happened and came on to different subjects like rip tides, undertows etc (and in swedish also "frånlandsvind" which would be something like the wind moving out towards the sea instead of towards the shore). And I am trying to sort out what we experienced. Since the waves were going towards the beach but the current was dragging towards the sea I guess this would have been an undertow ? There is an illustration in this Swedish magazine about undertows http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,656921,00.html But when I read about undertows on the internet many texts negate the "undertow" and point to the "rip tide" phenomenon and says undertows are not common. If we were inside a rip tide there would hardly be high waves going to the beach hitting us all the time ? And if it certainly can't be the wind going the opposite direction ("frånlandsvind") from beach and out. Could someone enlighten me if this was undertow or are there other phenomenons that apply to this ? With "rip tides" I read that the advice is to swim ot of the narrow current - ALONG and not as one would think TOWARDS the beach. If the current would have been even stronger for us to handle, and not pulling us down but pulling us out to sea my guess is that the best advice would be to not fight it but stay ontop, floating , trying not to swallow water and keep track of the direction to the beach. PS In retrospect it was low season and there was no flag system (at least not from what I could see) plus I couldn't see any life guards at the place at that time and there were just two other guys in the water far from us - so it was damn foolish of me to let the boys go as far - I have near to zero experience with bathing in an ocean like this with big waves and we had been there for 4 days without any problems. The only good thing about this is that I got a lesson to take precautions to never let it happen again. | Undertow/current (OT?) | | The only good thing about this is that I got a lesson to take precautions to | never let it happen again. From your description, I think undertow is the phenomenon you experienced. It refers to the action of water ebbing out from shore in a strong current after waves bring it in. One place I have experienced it is on the North Shore of Oahu, where waves cross an elevated surf, roll up on the beach, then return in a long, steady stream. In only 3' of water, relatively calm on top, the current underneath going out is very strong, making it hard to stand and difficult to swim against. The phenomenon attending undertow is that, although it may take you out quite a ways--into the surf in the case of North Beach--, it will often circle around and bring you back to shore at another point. Now, the way to survive when caught in an undertow is significant in relation to survival in general, it seems, because it has to do with not panicking and going into a resourceful mode. Your human-chain rescue was fortunate, but what if you are over your head and/or alone? Panic, and you will swim desperately, which may not save you and leave you exhausted and helpless. But you can decide to relax and go with the flow in a sort of watchful waiting. This can work in the case of undertow because you may be taken out from shore, but then brought back by the current to a calmer beach area. Other posters may confirm this, or not. bookburn >| Undertow/current (OT?) >| [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >out quite a ways--into the surf in the case of North Beach--, it will >often circle around and bring you back to shore at another point. There is a difference between undertow and a rip current. Undertow is water moving off a beach after it has washed up. Typically, it occurs on steep beaches. A rip current occurs when waves bring water in to a shore area and that water then must find somewhere to go. An undertow never occurs more than a few feet from shore and never in water deeper than 6'. A rip current may not reach the beach and can be in very deep water. Two dangerous beaches for undertow are Finisterra at Cabo Can Lucas, Mexico, and Waimea Bay on the North Shore of Hawaii. They are both steep beaches with the potential for large waves. What makes them dangerous is that a person can be walking on the beach totally dry, and a wave will wash up the beach and drag them out into the pounding surf. Even experienced swimmers/watermen can be in danger in those places. Rip currents may move parallel to the shore for a long way before going out to sea. They may seem like a strong river. The solution to both is awareness. Always watch the ocean for a while at a strange beach before you get wet. Look at the sand on the beach and see how far up the waves come - the sand will be wet. Look for lines of white foam on the surface that indicate a rip. See how the water moves along the shore. One last point - there is no such thing as a "rip tide." Tides are caused by the action of the sun and the moon and occur twice (sometimes once,) daily around the world..  SignatureTurby the Turbosurfer *** NOTE: whenever crossposting to multiple groups, always set a "follow-up" - this conforms to USENET standards for crossposting follow-up set to alt.survival > With "rip tides" I read that the advice is to swim ot of the narrow > current - ALONG and not as one would think TOWARDS the beach. In my 30+ years of surfing in many areas have proved that this is the correct solution. And actually, this method was taught to me by a beach lifeguard when I was about six years old (around 1963), before I started surfing. And a number of things to remember: * Stay calm * Swim at a leasurely pace - if you swim too fast, you will expend your energy faster * You may have to swim father than you think to get out of the current Bullet #2 is important when you consider bullet #3. I've been in situations where I've had to swim well over 1/2 mile to a mile to get out of the current and return to the beach. Signatureremove MYSHOES to email The only people I have ever heard talk about undertow with conviction and authority are people that only visit the ocean a few days per year and live in Iowa. Basically you have your: Rip current: that acts like a river going toward the ocean and usually stops beyond the breaking waves. You handle this like a river by swimming to the sides or just let it take you out and then come in with the waves. Back Wash: As mentioned is common on very steep beaches. It is very powerful, but it only takes you to the next incoming wave. The key is get out during the lulls, or try to go with the next wave inward. Cross current or along the shore current: More common on the Great Lakes and maybe certain ocean areas. All the water can start moving several miles per hour in one direction. For example here just last Wednesday to take off in the spot I desired, I had to constantly paddle against the current. These currents may create some weird situations. All that said, if you continue to go into the ocean, if might be very useful to learn how to body surf. Else always go where there are good lifeguards. I have read what you and others have said and I might be dense but I still don't understand one thing : If it was a rip current, why did the waves (which as I said were a meter high or so) go in the direction from the sea onto the shore at the point where we were standing when we struggled to get to land. That is something I definitely remember (because when we couldn't move I kept track of them to not inhale or swallow the water). On the other hand I was way too busy to notice if this was true for all the area surrounding me, but for at least the 10 meters or so we were occupying it was definitely going from sea to land ... Can a rip current exist on the deeper layers only and not on surface ? BTW the beach was not steep - on the contrary, at least not as far out as I could remain in contact with the surface > The only people I have ever heard talk about undertow with conviction > and authority are people that only visit the ocean a few days per year [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > useful to learn how to body surf. Else always go where there are good > lifeguards. > I have read what you and others have said and I might be dense but I still > don't understand one thing : > If it was a rip current, why did the waves (which as I said were a meter > high or so) go in the direction from the sea onto the shore at the point > where we were standing when we struggled to get to land. The waves always go from the sea onto the shore. The waves are separate from the current. > That is something I definitely remember (because when we couldn't move I > kept track of them to not inhale or swallow the water). On the other hand I [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > useful to learn how to body surf. Else always go where there are good > > lifeguards. Thanks, BTW I found very good info at http://www.ripcurrents.noaa.gov/science.shtml > The waves always go from the sea onto the shore. The waves are separate > from the current. >I have read what you and others have said and I might be dense but I still >don't understand one thing : [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >going from sea to land ... >Can a rip current exist on the deeper layers only and not on surface ? There are deep water currents, but they are not rip currents as we know them. Deep water currents are at the bottom of the ocean and move water around the world. Talking to some lifeguard friends today, I should correct myself. In SoCal, the term "undertow" is not used at all by lifeguard agencies. It is all considered a rip. Certainly, the term is a misnomer, because whatever water is dragging you around, it doesn't go under any other water, it is just the flow of water off a beach. Depending on the beach, waves will strike it at different places. There is an excellent book which describes how it happens: Waves & Beaches, by Willard Bascom. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385148445/103-7974383-3076625?v=glance (It is a revered text among surfers because it was one of the first to describe waves from a scientific standpoint that is understandable by laymen.) In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves of some sort. SignatureTurby the Turbosurfer > In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came > ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the > easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves > of some sort. Except in the case of rapid tidal swings where you have an inner channel dumping into the outer waters. It's a common occurrence at certain tide swings in spring, after the winter storms have cut a longshore channel in the Huntington beachbreak. It will turn glass into heavy texture in a matter of minutes, even with no wind or waves. Of course, with surf added to the equation, it intensifies greatly. Awe >> In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came >> ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Awe Larsen's beach Kauai has a channel in the reef that occasionally drains unsuspecting snorkelers out to sea with the tide changes. Any narrow barrier island channel has the potential for strong tidal currents. These currents can kill. _g >>In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came >>ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the >>easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves >>of some sort. rip pics and stories: http://www.ripcurrents.noaa.gov/graphics.shtml http://www.ripcurrents.noaa.gov/real_life.shtml lp >> In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came >> ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Of course, with surf added to the equation, it intensifies greatly. unh, yeah. I was racking my geezer brain trying to think of examples. I guess I should have said, "It's very rare _around here._" SignatureTurby the Turbosurfer It sounds like you got caught in a rip current. A rip current occurs when there is a break in a sand bar which causes the water to rush out through the gap. People get into trouble because they try to swim against the current, which can be very swift. The thing to do is swim parallel to the shore until you are out of the current, then you should be able to swim into shore. There are some things to look for that may indicate a rip tide is present. There may be choppy water, which is a different in color (often sandy-looking) from surrounding waters. A line of seaweed, debris or foam may be seen moving seaward, and there often is a noticeable break in the incoming wave pattern. > Undertow/current (OT?) > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Suddenly I felt like a current taking hold of my legs pulling towards the > sea. > Undertow/current (OT?) > I was in Thailand last week, (Koh Chang, White Sand Beach just outside Banpu > Koh Chang Hotel) with my son and his friend, both are 12-13 years of age, I > can breast swim well but not crawl and the boys are ok swimmers for their > age. -snip- > Suddenly I felt like a current taking hold of my legs pulling towards the > sea. -snip- > It was much harder than I could ever have thought to start moving to the > shore even though we were two men helping each other - it was really, really > slow in the beginning. Last May I was with some friends playing in the surf at a beach on the upper Texas coast. The seas were rough for that area of the Gulf, 3-4 feet. I didn't really notice the strength of the undertow at first. It as just a gentle tug on my legs. In that part of the Gulf you can go out about 200 yards and still be in chest deep water, so we're talking about a very gentle slope. We were in chest deep water jumping as the waves came by. What I didn't notice was that every time the waves would put me back down I was in a different place. After I while I was in neck deep water, and thought I should get back to chest or waist deep water. I found out that was easier said than done. The undertow at that depth was working on much more than my legs, it had most of my body to pull on, and at that depth my weigh in the water didn't give any resistance. I tried to walk toward the shore and absolutely could not. A brief flash of panic came over me and I decided that I could swim, on the surface, back to chest deep water. It was still very difficult but I was able to get back to a depth that I could walk in. I can easily see how a weak swimmer would have been in real trouble. It was a great lesson. I intend to never again put myself in that situation, but I also took up swimming at the gym 3-4 times a week. If I should get caught in that situation again, I want to be sure of my strength and endurance. Scary story indeed... My boy today confirmed that it probably was the rip current phenomenon. He said the water seemed to assemble at the point near the shore which was closest to us and then come back at us. You are a much better swimmer than me but the conclusion from all the info I got here and at web sites would be : if the force is so strong that you can't swim to shore you would be much better of swimming parallell to the beach and not tire yourself. as this pdf shows : http://www.ripcurrents.noaa.gov/signs-brochures.shtml >> Undertow/current (OT?) >> I was in Thailand last week, (Koh Chang, White Sand Beach just outside [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I want to be sure of my > strength and endurance. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.