Scuba Forum / General / July 2005
Dive Medicine Quiz
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Greg Mossman - 14 Jul 2005 00:47 GMT Somewhat experienced 37-year-old white male diver, overweight and only mildly in shape, but very, very handsome, on a remote multiday liveaboard dive trip, begins his first dive of the third day after sitting out the morning dive due to sinus/nasal congestion and a possible but undiagnosed hangover. Occasional smoker and drinker, both vices were eagerly pursued the previous night. Congestion is appeased with Claritin, 12-hour Sudafed, and a few snorts of Afrin. No other medications present.
Water is 82 degrees at surface, a bit chillier at depth. Diver is warm, if not too warm, in a 5mm farmer john wetsuit. He is carrying bulky video housing/light on the dive in an attempt to film big sharks. Profile involves a free descent to 65 fsw in challenging current and surge, then to hold onto rocks for duration of dive. Diver, somewhat new to his heavy video system, is bounced around at depth while trying to hang on with one hand, film with the other, dodge vicious maneating sea urchins and the occasional large shark, and all the while maintain vigilance over his novice buddy. Diver sucks his tank down in record time and after only 25 minutes (he did have a short fill to begin with, after all) is down to 1,000 psi. Still breathing hard, he signals the DM to watch over his buddy and begins his ascent.
He maintains contact with the rock until about 40', where severe vertigo and accompanying nausea start to set in, worsened by the expanding bubbles of four or so divers below. At that point, the surge caused by waves crashing into the surface portion of the rock require the diver to swim away from the rock into the blue so that the dinghy can safely pick him up. He does so, quickly losing sight of the rock and any other divers in the dwindling 20-30 visibility, and the vertigo and nausea worsen. Vomiting through his regulator while trying to maintain a safe rate of ascent, he manages to get the best hammerhead footage he's collected all week, but it's so bad by the time he gets to 15' that, with the additional recollection that this is the site where two divers off the same liveaboard were lost (and never found) back in late 2003, he surfaces after less than a one minute safety stop. Diver was breathing 32% nitrox.
On the surface, and now in 8-10' swells, diver weakly extends a hand into the air while continuing to violently vomit through his regulator, hoping that he won't inhale any of the foul bilious venom, wishing he had eaten breakfast that morning or at least had something in his stomach besides two shots of oily boat espresso, and praying that the dinghy driver would spot him before he had to deploy a safety sausage, EPIRB, or even be lost at sea. After several tense minutes, the dinghy driver appears, circles around, grabs the weakly extended camera, and lowers the ladder, grabbing proferred fins, and assisting the ill diver as he climbs up the ladder, clambors aboard the craft, doffs his BC and tank, and immediately leans over the other side of the boat to, you guessed it: vomit some more.
Dinghy driver offers vomiting diver a cup of water which is initially refused, then accepted, then regurgitated over the side. After a few more minutes, additional divers appear on the surface to be collected by the dinghy and as they slowly climb aboard, the looks of pity or perhaps smirks are clearly visible on their faces. A few begin to offer sympathy but then rapidly recoil as the diver resumes his violent intestinal purge. Eventually diver is out of ammunition, and takes a seat on the gunwale, taking deep breaths and trying to keep his eyes on the ever-bouncing horizon as he attempts to rein in the intense nausea.
As the remainder of the divers finish climbing on and taking their seats, perhaps 20 minutes after the time the diver first broke the surface, he notices a slight tingling in his fingers and hands. At first attributing the tingling to the tightness of his wetsuit or his gloves, the diver first tries to ignore the symptom, but can't help but get worried when it starts to grow into a strong sensation, similar to an electrical impulse. The tingling continues to grow until the diver can no longer move his fingers, and then he watches helplessly as his hands start to involuntarily contract into claw-like appendages. At this point, the diver finally speaks of his condition aloud, and catches himself slurring his words as if he were drunk. The realization sets in . . . He asks for oxygen, and repeats his request a bit louder so someone will hear.
The dinghy driver quickly abandons his post at the ladder and reaches for the DAN O2 kit. He sets up the cylinder and mask, but is having trouble deciding how to turn it on. The affected diver, himself a certified O2 provider, can barely talk at this point as the tingling has set into his lips, and his hands are certainly useless for the purpose. Fortunately, sitting next to him is an experienced surgical nurse who knows her way around an oxygen tank and she gets the oxygen flowing, the mask strap over the diver's head, and gets other divers to assist her in positioning the diver on his left side stretched awkwardly across the bottom of the crowded dinghy. Finally the DM climbs aboard and quickly takes over the situation, questioning the dinghy driver and other divers, checking the oxygen flow, and comforting the scared diver. The dinghy makes the 10-minute journey back to the liveaboard, the diver is helped to his feet, and assisted off the dinghy, where he is laid down on the dive deck, oxygen bottles are swapped, and his buddy helps remove his wetsuit. Soon, the DM helps him inside the salon, lays him down on the couch, and brings him more water to drink.
Meanwhile, the oxygen seems to be working miracles. The symptoms are quickly resolving, to the point that after 15 total minutes on oxygen, the diver's hands unclench and the tingling subsides. The diver speaks and notices no recurrence of the slurring. After another 15 minutes of slow breathing, the tingling subsides completely and the diver is urged to take an oxygen break. The symptoms fail to resume, yet the diver follows up his 20 minute oxygen break with a second 20 minute session on the mask before deciding that he's cured for good, at which point he has a slice of pizza.
Worried about making future dives on the trip, and having the same worry strongly communicated to him by the boat captain, the DM, and the trip organizer, diver mentally prepares himself for spending the remainder of his vacation topside. He consults with two doctors aboard the vessel who doubt that the incident was due to DCS, but the diver is puzzled by their explanation and remains firmly of the belief that he got bent. The next morning, he invests a few minutes of expensive satellite phone minutes on a call to DAN, where after a quick description of the symptoms, the DAN consultant gives a confident and definite diagnosis of the divers ailment. Confident in DAN's wisdom, and this now being his third confirming opinion, the divers speaks with the DM and boat captain after they return from the first morning dive and gets cleared to dive the next dive. A bit of vertigo ensues on the diver's next dive after reaching the 90' plateau via a mooring line, but the diver holds onto the rocky plateau rim until the vertigo subsides in about 10 minutes, and then the diver continues on to make the remainder of the dives of the trip without incident, but for a painful reverse block on the very last dive of of the trip because his damn cold never goes away.
Which alphabetic condition did this diver suffer from?
a) TVA
b) CVA
c) Acute HVS
d) Mild DCS
e) DTs
f) All of the above
g) None of the above
First six correct answers win a can of beer. Shipping and handling fees may apply. Cheating incurs optional corkage fee.
Ghmorris - 14 Jul 2005 01:03 GMT Accute HVS.
George
Greg Mossman - 14 Jul 2005 01:59 GMT > Accute HVS. Correctamundo. For you, an entire regifted case of Kokanee that's been aging in my garage for many years now. Come and get it whenever you like or I can arrange delivery anywhere between Los Angeles and Las Vegas.
Joe English - 14 Jul 2005 01:07 GMT > Somewhat experienced 37-year-old white male diver, overweight and only > mildly in shape, but very, very handsome, on a remote multiday liveaboard [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] > First six correct answers win a can of beer. Shipping and handling fees may > apply. Cheating incurs optional corkage fee. h. too f.cking verbose
Steve - 15 Jul 2005 07:54 GMT > h. too f.cking verbose And yet his post was still 3 words shorter than yours.
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Grumman-581 - 14 Jul 2005 01:27 GMT You were sea sick, complicated by a hangover... You should have brought a 6-pack down to depth with you and drank it while hanging onto the rock... You would have felt better...
Alan Street - 14 Jul 2005 01:36 GMT > Which alphabetic condition did this diver suffer from? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > First six correct answers win a can of beer. Shipping and handling fees may > apply. Cheating incurs optional corkage fee. g) None of the above.
You were hung over and seasick, and I'm guessing that you might have had a touch of CO poisoning from your "breathing treatment" the night before.
Limey - 14 Jul 2005 01:39 GMT > Somewhat experienced 37-year-old white male diver, overweight and only > mildly in shape, but very, very handsome, ............ Who you been taking diving with ya Greg? You fit the bill except the overweight part.
> Which alphabetic condition did this diver suffer from? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > First six correct answers win a can of beer. Shipping and handling fees > may apply. Cheating incurs optional corkage fee. I'll take (f) but only if there's no corkage fee incolved.....otherwise I'll forfeit.
LD
Greg Mossman - 14 Jul 2005 01:57 GMT > Who you been taking diving with ya Greg? You fit the bill except the > overweight part. It's a friend of a friend of a friend, of course. Still, you were just seeing one of me when you thought you were seeing double.
>> First six correct answers win a can of beer. Shipping and handling fees >> may apply. Cheating incurs optional corkage fee.
> I'll take (f) but only if there's no corkage fee incolved.....otherwise > I'll forfeit. Fortunately you're wrong. Forfeiture is not an option at this point. You now owe me a beer for playing but I'm afraid I can't make it to your Spiegel dive to collect. Maybe in the spring. I'm looking at one of the Nekton boats to the Bahamas after spending nine days with one of their captains, and that would give me an excuse to overnight in Ft. Lauderdale.
Limey - 14 Jul 2005 19:29 GMT >> Who you been taking diving with ya Greg? You fit the bill except the >> overweight part. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Fortunately you're wrong. Forfeiture is not an option at this point. Dammit, and I didn't think you were being serious. I'd never have commented! ;0)
You
> now owe me a beer for playing but I'm afraid I can't make it to your > Spiegel dive to collect. Maybe in the spring. I'm looking at one of the > Nekton boats to the Bahamas after spending nine days with one of their > captains, and that would give me an excuse to overnight in Ft. Lauderdale. Let me know a coupla days ahead of time and I'll buy you several beers. One caveat........we cab it this time......I'm too old to sleep in my truck!
LD
nitespark - 14 Jul 2005 01:42 GMT > Which alphabetic condition did this diver suffer from? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > First six correct answers win a can of beer. Shipping and handling fees may > apply. Cheating incurs optional corkage fee. Inititial sypmtoms sounded like DCS but when they subsided so quickly with the administration of O2, I am inclinded to rule that out. Not sure what TVA is. CVA as I am familiar with it, is Cerebral Vascular Accident (or stroke, not the diver kind of stroke). I am assuming HVS is referring to HyperVentilation. My best guess, and I am not a physician, is Hyperventilation . I am ruling out mild DCS since the diver was ultimately cleared by DAN to dive that soon after the incident. I am also ruling out DT's since they are a serious and even life threatening medical condition and I would be totally astonished if any responsible medical authority would clear a diver that soon after DT's. I am guessing, since there was an indication of congestion which may have extended into the inner ear, the hyperbaric pressures may have induced a session of vertigo and thus the nausea, which evolved into hyperventilation from the anxiety of a possible DCS hit in a remote location. There was no direct mention of it, but it sounds as though the diver had eaten prior to diving since he was vomiting. The vomiting may have lead to some mild dehydration which compounded the problem. I am also ruling out a Cerebral Vascular Accident (stroke) since recovery was so quick. There is a condition known as a TIA (Trans Ischemic Attack), or a "mini-stroke", which may be a possibility but I would still lean away from that.
There was no mention of vital signs such as BP, respiratory rate, or nature of pulse or respirations.
Andy
Greg Mossman - 14 Jul 2005 02:17 GMT > Inititial sypmtoms sounded like DCS but when they subsided so quickly with > the administration of O2, I am inclinded to rule that out. Not sure what > TVA is. As you recognize below, I meant TIA. Bonus beer for that one.
DCS was indeed ruled out by DAN due to non-recurrence of symptoms after going off only a half-hour of oxygen treatment.
> CVA as I am familiar with it, is Cerebral Vascular Accident (or stroke, > not the diver kind of stroke). I am assuming HVS is referring to > HyperVentilation. My best guess, and I am not a physician, is > Hyperventilation . We have a winner. George got it first, but you get extra credit for the explanation.
> I am ruling out mild DCS since the diver was ultimately cleared by DAN to > dive that soon after the incident. An experienced liveaboard boat captain on our trip recalled one passenger who had been cleared by DAN to dive 48 hours after getting a skin bend, but no one with neurological symptoms like tetanus and slurring would be cleared to dive so soon if DCS were suspected.
> I am also ruling out DT's since they are a serious and even life > threatening medical condition and I would be totally astonished if any > responsible medical authority would clear a diver that soon after DT's. Oh. I didn't know there was anything wrong with diving with DTs. Maybe I should be concerned . . .
> I am guessing, since there was an indication of congestion which may have > extended into the inner ear, the hyperbaric pressures may have induced a > session of vertigo and thus the nausea, which evolved into > hyperventilation from the anxiety of a possible DCS hit in a remote > location. Exactly. Initial treatment with oxygen didn't help matters and in fact could have worsened the symptoms. Correct response to acute HVS is to breathe in a paper bag. When was the last time you saw a paper bag on a liveaboard dive dinghy?
Anxiety of a possible DCS hit in a remote location is definitely a fear factor, but I believe that the hyperventilation was caused by the diver's deep breathing upon surfacing in an attempt to squelch the nausea.
There was no direct mention of it, but it sounds as though
> the diver had eaten prior to diving since he was vomiting. The vomiting > may have lead to some mild dehydration which compounded the problem. > I am also ruling out a Cerebral Vascular Accident (stroke) since recovery > was so quick. There is a condition known as a TIA (Trans Ischemic > Attack), or a "mini-stroke", which may be a possibility but I would still > lean away from that. Actually I did include the part about the empty stomach ("wishing he had eaten breakfast"). Vomiting on an empty stomach is not as fun as vomiting with a full stomach and it attracts fewer sharks.
CVA (and TIA) were indeed ruled out because of the complete and rapid resolution of all symptoms. DTs were never seriously considered.
> There was no mention of vital signs such as BP, respiratory rate, or > nature of pulse or respirations. You can't have it all. BP wasn't available, or at least wasn't monitored. Pulse got up to 100 due to anxiety over expected slow and painful death, but remained strong: another sign contradicting diagnoses of CVA/TIA or DCS.
The most popular signs of a mild DCS hit are fatigue and itching. The diver's symptoms of tetanus and slurring could also be indicative of air embolism, but the fact that the diver remained alive and quickly recovered also dispelled that notion.
I'll bring the beers direct to you, but you'll have to meet me in Morehead or wherever it is you go to dive with the sand tigers and it might be a year or two so be patient.
Lee Bell - 14 Jul 2005 13:04 GMT > Exactly. Initial treatment with oxygen didn't help matters and in fact > could have worsened the symptoms. Correct response to acute HVS is to > breathe in a paper bag. When was the last time you saw a paper bag on a > liveaboard dive dinghy? A plastic baggie works just as well. They're commonly used in open boats to keep things from getting wet.
> Anxiety of a possible DCS hit in a remote location is definitely a fear > factor, but I believe that the hyperventilation was caused by the diver's > deep breathing upon surfacing in an attempt to squelch the nausea. You probably set the scene for the surface problem by exceptionally rapid breathing of a high PPO2 gas during the dive.
> The most popular signs of a mild DCS hit are fatigue and itching. The > diver's symptoms of tetanus and slurring could also be indicative of air > embolism, but the fact that the diver remained alive and quickly recovered > also dispelled that notion. The numbing affect is almost always related to a gas issue. CO was a distinct possibility, but you would not have recovered quickly. It would have been days instead of minutes if, in fact, you recovered at all.
Lee
nitespark - 14 Jul 2005 17:16 GMT > An experienced liveaboard boat captain on our trip recalled one passenger > who had been cleared by DAN to dive 48 hours after getting a skin bend, but > no one with neurological symptoms like tetanus and slurring would be cleared > to dive so soon if DCS were suspected. That surprises me. A diver in our group on Cayman Brac complained of DCS symptoms. This diver had been previously bent during a DAN study so knew firsthand what it was like. The diver was taken to a medical facility on the island, put on O2 and ultimately released without hyperbaric treatments, but was restricted from diving for the next 10 days.
>>I am also ruling out DT's since they are a serious and even life >>threatening medical condition and I would be totally astonished if any >>responsible medical authority would clear a diver that soon after DT's. > > Oh. I didn't know there was anything wrong with diving with DTs. Maybe I > should be concerned . . . "Delerium Tremens (DTs)- a severe reaction that can be part of alcohol withdrawal. The patient's hands tremble, hallucinations may occur, the patient displays atypical (unusal behavior, and convulsion may take place. Severe alchol withdrawal with DTs frequently leads to death."
Brady Emergency Care- Fifth Edition
> Actually I did include the part about the empty stomach ("wishing he had > eaten breakfast"). Vomiting on an empty stomach is not as fun as vomiting > with a full stomach and it attracts fewer sharks. The description was rather verbose so apparently I overlooked it
> CVA (and TIA) were indeed ruled out because of the complete and rapid > resolution of all symptoms. DTs were never seriously considered. > >>There was no mention of vital signs such as BP, respiratory rate, or >>nature of pulse or respirations. BP may not be available on a diveboat. I would sort of expect it on a liveaboard since BP is a very good barometer with which to gauge shock. Depending on the conditions, a BP may be difficult if not impossible to get on a diveboat using a stethoscope, however, an experienced EMT can still get a fairly good ballpark BP by palpation.
> I'll bring the beers direct to you, but you'll have to meet me in Morehead > or wherever it is you go to dive with the sand tigers and it might be a year > or two so be patient. Morehead works just fine for me, if I can have conditions like last weekend. I have dove Va. Beach, but viz and conditions are not nearly as good as they are at Morehead. Otherwise its off to Fla., or the Carribean.
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Greg Mossman - 14 Jul 2005 20:49 GMT >> Oh. I didn't know there was anything wrong with diving with DTs. Maybe >> I should be concerned . . . [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > patient displays atypical (unusal behavior, and convulsion may take place. > " Sounds like a usual hangover for me. What's the problem?
> BP may not be available on a diveboat. I would sort of expect it on a > liveaboard since BP is a very good barometer with which to gauge shock. > Depending on the conditions, a BP may be difficult if not impossible to > get on a diveboat using a stethoscope, however, an experienced EMT can > still get a fairly good ballpark BP by palpation. If they had it, they didn't show it. They did have a defibrillator, but no one got drunk enough to let me use it on them.
> Otherwise its off to Fla., or the Carribean. Tell me again in five months. I got blown out last year and this year so far looks worse.
nitespark - 16 Jul 2005 19:48 GMT >>>Oh. I didn't know there was anything wrong with diving with DTs. Maybe >>>I should be concerned . . . [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sounds like a usual hangover for me. What's the problem? Isn't narcosis better though?
>>BP may not be available on a diveboat. I would sort of expect it on a >>liveaboard since BP is a very good barometer with which to gauge shock. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If they had it, they didn't show it. They did have a defibrillator, but no > one got drunk enough to let me use it on them. Shocking
>>Otherwise its off to Fla., or the Carribean. > > Tell me again in five months. I got blown out last year and this year so > far looks worse. Well, at least MY luck seems to have turned around. Past few years EVERY time I head out to dive, it gets blown out. Last week in Morehead was perfect. (finally).
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Greg Mossman - 16 Jul 2005 22:38 GMT >>>>Oh. I didn't know there was anything wrong with diving with DTs. Maybe
>>>"Delerium Tremens (DTs)- a severe reaction that can be part of alcohol
>> Sounds like a usual hangover for me. What's the problem? > > Isn't narcosis better though? Of course, and it usually cancels out the hangover and/or DTs. The problem is that you can't get narced without doing the dive.
>> If they had it, they didn't show it. They did have a defibrillator, but >> no >> one got drunk enough to let me use it on them. > > Shocking It got me all charged up.
I was almost mad enough to use it on myself, but I wasn't that drunk yet.
> Well, at least MY luck seems to have turned around. Past few years EVERY > time I head out to dive, it gets blown out. Last week in Morehead was > perfect. (finally). It's not perfect unless I'm there too. Better luck next time.
Grumman-581 - 17 Jul 2005 18:54 GMT > The problem is that you can't get narced without doing the dive. Yeah you can... You just have to have the proper mix... 80% N2O plus 20% O2 works rather well... Xe also works well in the 27-45% range...
nitespark - 17 Jul 2005 20:01 GMT >>>>>Oh. I didn't know there was anything wrong with diving with DTs. Maybe > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Of course, and it usually cancels out the hangover and/or DTs. The problem > is that you can't get narced without doing the dive. Well if thats what works....
>>>If they had it, they didn't show it. They did have a defibrillator, but >>>no [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It got me all charged up. Don't get charged with battery.
>>Well, at least MY luck seems to have turned around. Past few years EVERY >>time I head out to dive, it gets blown out. Last week in Morehead was >>perfect. (finally). > > It's not perfect unless I'm there too. Better luck next time. ....and the Rec.Scuba modesty award goes to..........................
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Greg Mossman - 18 Jul 2005 05:48 GMT >>>Shocking >> >> It got me all charged up. > > Don't get charged with battery. I'll take that advice with a grain assault.
nitespark - 18 Jul 2005 10:50 GMT >>>>Shocking >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'll take that advice with a grain assault. I guess I will be reading about it in the news pepper.
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Dillon Pyron - 18 Jul 2005 20:47 GMT >>>>Shocking >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I'll take that advice with a grain assault. Better a battery than a field telephone.
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And a damn fine one, at that.
Scott - 18 Jul 2005 21:07 GMT > Better a battery than a field telephone. Or an old magneto off an 80" flathead...
Longshot - 14 Jul 2005 18:03 GMT sounds like the panic attacks i was getting, when i was going through my divorce.
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