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Scuba Forum / General / July 2005DCS - Question
I was reading the DAN magazine last night about DCS and it's symptoms and effects. My questions is, if someone did get a hit and didn't diagnose it, will it heal on it's own or will there be long lasting problems when returning into the water????? Thanks >I was reading the DAN magazine last night about DCS and it's symptoms > and effects. My questions is, if someone did get a hit and didn't > diagnose it, will it heal on it's own or will there be long lasting > problems when returning into the water????? The question is more complex than that. DCS is the effect of nitrogen that comes out of solution while it's still in the tissues of the body. How DCS affects the diver and how permanent the injury is, depends on what tissue it hits and how much nitrogen is present. Generally speaking, damage to muscle and fat tissue heals eventually. Damage to nerve tissue and/or organs, may not. Either way, the damage is to tissue. It is there whether you return to the water or not. Lee > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Lee Well said. Also, it's very difficult to diagnose DCS (is it a hit or did I pull a muscle on the ladder?) which is why DAN's position is "when in doubt, do a chamber ride." In a very large percentage of treatments for DCS, there is no DCS present. Likewise, many cases of DCS are treated late or never. If you received a hit and it was not treated (hypothetically), are you more probable to get DCS again. > >>I was reading the DAN magazine last night about DCS and it's symptoms > >>and effects. My questions is, if someone did get a hit and didn't [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > In a very large percentage of treatments for DCS, there is no > DCS present. Likewise, many cases of DCS are treated late or never. > If you received a hit and it was not treated (hypothetically), are you > more probable to get DCS again. Statistically, even if you are treated you are more likely to get another hit. I assume that not being treated exposes you at least as much. >Statistically, even if you are treated [for a DCS hit] you are more >likely to get another hit. I assume that not being treated exposes >you at least as much. Remember: Statistical coorelation NEVER prooves ANYTHING! My own opinion is that some people, for whatever reason or reasons, are more prone to DCS hits. If you've had a hit, you're likely to be one of those people. Hence, you're more prone to another hit. Whatever the mechanism, the reality is this: If you've been hit once you should be MORE careful in the future.  SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > >>Statistically, even if you are treated [for a DCS hit] you are more >>likely to get another hit. I assume that not being treated exposes [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Whatever the mechanism, the reality is this: If you've been hit once > you should be MORE careful in the future. I won't argue that. >>Statistically, even if you are treated [for a DCS hit] you are more >>likely to get another hit. I assume that not being treated exposes [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >are more prone to DCS hits. If you've had a hit, you're likely to >be one of those people. Hence, you're more prone to another hit. I have a friend who took and "undeserved" hit in Cozumel. She dived a conservative profile inside the tables and her computer. Was she one of those susceptible ones who just ran out of chances? We'll never know for sure. She's a paraplegic. >Whatever the mechanism, the reality is this: If you've been hit once >you should be MORE careful in the future. I have a friend who teaches neurology at Duke. I'll ask him Sunday if there's any solid (peer reviewed) research in this area. Signaturedillon Linux, it's not just an OS, it's a way of life. And a damn fine one, at that. >>>Statistically, even if you are treated [for a DCS hit] you are more >>>likely to get another hit. I assume that not being treated exposes [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I have a friend who teaches neurology at Duke. I'll ask him Sunday if > there's any solid (peer reviewed) research in this area. Well being more susceptible would make sense if there was a physiological reason for the first case of the of DCI. There also appears to be at least annecdotal evidence of scar tissue being more at risk. John > Well being more susceptible would make sense if there was a > physiological reason for the first case of the of DCI. There also > appears to be at least annecdotal evidence of scar tissue being more at > risk. There's also some anecdotal evidence to the contrary. My first hit was to my right elbow. It was treated and I have no noticeable remaining effects. My second hit was to my left elbow. If previously damaged tissue were more at risk, you would think that my second hit would have been in the same place as my first one. Lee >>Well being more susceptible would make sense if there was a >>physiological reason for the first case of the of DCI. There also [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lee Only if all of the parameters of the dive were the same and it makes the assumption left elbow has no other physiological predisposing factors John >>>Well being more susceptible would make sense if there was a >>>physiological reason for the first case of the of DCI. There also [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> at risk, you would think that my second hit would have been in the same >> place as my first one. > Only if all of the parameters of the dive were the same and it makes the > assumption left elbow has no other physiological predisposing factors. First, if it had predisposing factors, you would expect it to have been the part that got hit the first time. Second, if the presumption that a prior hit made a portion of the body more vulnerable to a second one were true, the second hit should have been in the same elbow as the previous one. The whole point of my statement about the hits is that my first hit did not make the right elbow affected more vulnerable to a second hit than my previously uninjured left elbow. Lee >>>>Well being more susceptible would make sense if there was a >>>>physiological reason for the first case of the of DCI. There also [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Lee Well there are a bunch of assumptions, but there in the models as well John > >>Statistically, even if you are treated [for a DCS hit] you are more > >>likely to get another hit. I assume that not being treated exposes [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > of those susceptible ones who just ran out of chances? We'll never > know for sure. She's a paraplegic. Has she been tested for a PFO? My sympathies to your friend..... > >Whatever the mechanism, the reality is this: If you've been hit once > >you should be MORE careful in the future. > > I have a friend who teaches neurology at Duke. I'll ask him Sunday if > there's any solid (peer reviewed) research in this area. Dennis >> If you received a hit and it was not treated (hypothetically), are you >> more probable to get DCS again. > Statistically, even if you are treated you are more likely to get another > hit. I assume that not being treated exposes you at least as much. I've been hit twice. The first one was "undeserved" and was treated. I have no noticeable effects. The second was most certainly deserved, except for being my left elbow instead of my right, was virtually identical and was not treated. I pay the price every day. If you're going to be stupid, it helps to be tough. I have not had a hit in more than two years now, despite diving deeper and longer than I did for most of my diving history. I think that taking an undeserved hit probably indicates that I was more likely to take a hit at that place and time than others. That suggests that, were all conditions the same again, I might take another undeserved hit. Of course conditions will never be the same again. I changed my diving to make sure they aren't. I don't think I'm more, or less vulnerable because of my previous hits. If anything, it's the other way around. The hits are an indication of vulnerability rather than the cause of it. Lee >I was reading the DAN magazine last night about DCS and it's symptoms > and effects. My questions is, if someone did get a hit and didn't > diagnose it, will it heal on it's own or will there be long lasting > problems when returning into the water????? Yes, and Yes. |
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