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Scuba Forum / General / July 2005How to adjust steel linked watch band (Wenger Swiss Military waterproof)
How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? (It's not obvious.) I bought, at CostCo, the Wenger Swiss Military 200m water proof watch for my teen-age son's birthday for about 30 dollars (as he wants to learn how to scuba dive in Monterey Bay). His thin wrist in no way fits this Wenger watch band, even wearing his wetsuit, in so much as at least two links need to be removed from the stainless steel watch band, one on each side. Instructions supplied with the blister pack do not explain how to adjust the band (presumably it's so simple that we should be able to figure it out by ourselves using a butter knife)??? His new Wenger Swiss Military watch band has six links on each side, with two (I'll guess they're called) pins holding them together. The three lower links on each side each have a 2 mm arrow embossed into the center of the backside of the plates (for whatever reason, I don't know). My son suspects that arrow is telling us the direction in which to remove the pins holding the links to the watch band. Further evidence these six links are the remove-me links are the fact that a pin of some sort can be seen on a side view of the Wenger watch band for these "arrowed" links only. Problem is - how do we remove those 'pins'? If we punch them out with an incredibly small punch (the pins seem to be about a half millimeter in diameter), won't we ruin them? I mean, what holds them in? Friction? If it's friction, won't we need new pins when we punch out the old ones (presumably stripping the heads)? The other thing is these arrows are not symetrical in that they are only lined up with one of the two pins per link (that is, there is only one arrow per link and that arrow is under only one of the pins per the link). Am I missing something fundamental here? What's the trick to removing and replacing two links in a steel watch band? > How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? > (It's not obvious.) Yeah, I basically removed a couple of the links. > I bought, at CostCo, the Wenger Swiss Military 200m water > proof watch for my teen-age son's birthday for about 30 dollars > (as he wants to learn how to scuba dive in Monterey Bay). > His thin wrist in no way fits this Wenger watch band, Yeah, I had the same problem. > even wearing his wetsuit, in so much as at least two links need > to be removed from the stainless steel watch band, one on each > side. Instructions supplied with the blister pack do not explain > how to adjust the band (presumably it's so simple that we should > be able to figure it out by ourselves using a butter knife)??? Not really, but it isnt rocket science. > His new Wenger Swiss Military watch band has six links on each > side, with two (I'll guess they're called) pins holding them together. Mine had fold over metal bits with each link. > The three lower links on each side each have a 2 mm arrow embossed > into the center of the backside of the plates (for whatever reason, I don't > know). My son suspects that arrow is telling us the direction in which > to remove the pins holding the links to the watch band. > Further evidence these six links are the remove-me links are > the fact that a pin of some sort can be seen on a side view > of the Wenger watch band for these "arrowed" links only. Sounds plausible. > Problem is - how do we remove those 'pins'? If we punch them out with > an incredibly small punch (the pins seem to be about a half millimeter > in diameter), won't we ruin them? I mean, what holds them in? Friction? Some have a spring loaded inner pin at each end. > If it's friction, won't we need new pins when we punch > out the old ones (presumably stripping the heads)? > The other thing is these arrows are not symetrical in > that they are only lined up with one of the two pins per > link (that is, there is only one arrow per link and that > arrow is under only one of the pins per the link). > Am I missing something fundamental here? Yes, http://www.wengerna.com/faq.jsp?cat_id=1#add_links > What's the trick to removing and replacing > two links in a steel watch band? Looks like there is a special tool that does it. > > Am I missing something fundamental here? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Looks like there is a special tool that does it. I should have mentioned I had been to the Wenger web site previously. http://www.wengerasi.com which happens to have a photo of my son's Wenger Swiss Military Watch (70016) on the home page - but my searches came up blank. However, unless I'm more of an idiot than I thought (which is always possible :), there are absolutely no instructions for removing links in that steel watch band on the entire Wenger web site. While there are detailed instructions for measuring arcane things like the simple width of the watch (http://www.wengerna.com/browse/tutorial.jsp) I'm surprised there are no common adjustment instructions for the band. Given the CostCo Wenger Swiss Military 200m date watch band ships in XXL elephant size, I can't imagine that everyone on the planet won't have to remove links in the bracelet band. I very much appreciate your link to the Wenger Swiss Army Watch FAQ. http://www.wengerna.com/faq.jsp But all it says for adjusting the band is take it to someone who knows how to adjust the band already (that's why I'm asking this message board). :) The two PDFs at that FAQ site are for the booklet that comes with the watch (which says ask someone who knows how to adjust the band) and for ordering new bands. Why would it be so exasperating to do something so simple as a watch band adjustment - especially since the band comes in such a huge size to start with that every human other than Mike Tyson will have to adjust the band. Where's the usability in that? :) By the way, I seriously doubt the pin is spring loaded like it is for the clasp adjustment on the band because in the u-shaped clasp, there's a place for the pin to come out - but in the closed-off band, there is NOWHERE for a spring-loaded pin to exit. It seems that the link pins can ONLY come out one end or the other which means it must be a friction fit or some other trick - but not simple springs like in the clasp (am I totally off base here?)??? Here is my best-guess procedure for all those CostCo watch buyers out there. 1. Find a very small (1/2 mm) punch (probably a very tiny brad or nail) 2. Find a block of wood with a very small hole (about 1mm or so) 3. Find the arrow on the underside of the Wenger Swiss Military Watch 70016 4. Place the watch band on its side on the block of wood 5. Place the point of the punch on the pin in the direction of the ---> arrow 6. Make sure there is a closed hole (a ditch if you will) below the pin 7. That way you won't lose the pin if it suddenly pops out on you 8. Punch two pins per link out 9. Remove the link and replace only one of the pins 10. If we're lucky - the pins won't have been destroyed in the process Does this sound anywhere near like a usable procedure for the new owners of the Costco 70016 Wenger Swiss Military 200m date watch? -snip- > Here is my best-guess procedure for all those CostCo watch buyers out > there. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Does this sound anywhere near like a usable procedure for the new > owners of the Costco 70016 Wenger Swiss Military 200m date watch? I suggest the following alternate instructions: 1. Go to jeweler. 2. Say to jeweler, "Please remove X links from this watch." 3. Leave and return later, perhaps after coffee, beer, or a dive. 4. Pick up watch and pay jeweler. 5. Wear watch. Those worked great when I got a too-big watch as a gift. They did the resize while I waited and didn't charge me anything. Oh, someone mentioned something about the buttons misbehaving underwater. I've had a watch break when I realized I'd forgotten to start it once I got to the bottom. I pressed the button, it blinked once, then died. So don't do that.  SignatureMagnus McElroy Electrical Engineer (EIT) HABIT Research (250) 381-9425 > Why would it be so exasperating to do something so simple as a watch > band adjustment - especially since the band comes in such a huge size > to start with that every human other than Mike Tyson will have to > adjust the band. Where's the usability in that? :) the bigger the band size, the more people can potentially wear it. >>> Am I missing something fundamental here? >> Yes, http://www.wengerna.com/faq.jsp?cat_id=1#add_links >>> What's the trick to removing and replacing >>> two links in a steel watch band? >> Looks like there is a special tool that does it. > I should have mentioned I had been to the Wenger web site previously. > http://www.wengerasi.com [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > But all it says for adjusting the band is take it to someone who knows > how to adjust the band already (that's why I'm asking this message board). :) It actually says pretty unambiguously that there is a special tool that is used to remove excess links and that the watchmaker should have it. http://www.wengerna.com/faq.jsp?cat_id=1#add_links Its certainly possible that someone with some decent mechanical aptitude can work out how to do it without the tool, but its unlikely that you'll find anyone who has done that with that particular band. > The two PDFs at that FAQ site are for the booklet that > comes with the watch (which says ask someone who > knows how to adjust the band) and for ordering new bands. > Why would it be so exasperating to do something so simple as > a watch band adjustment - especially since the band comes in > such a huge size to start with that every human other than Mike > Tyson will have to adjust the band. Where's the usability in that? :) Basically they have chosen to have the seller of the watch do it. Thats basically a design choice. > By the way, I seriously doubt the pin is spring loaded like it is for > the clasp adjustment on the band because in the u-shaped clasp, Yeah, sounds plausible. And you dont need a special tool for those. > there's a place for the pin to come out - but in the closed-off band, > there is NOWHERE for a spring-loaded pin to exit. It seems that > the link pins can ONLY come out one end or the other which > means it must be a friction fit or some other trick - but not simple > springs like in the clasp (am I totally off base here?)??? Nar, it does look like they have designed it to be dont with a special tool. Corse that doesnt mean that thats the only way it can be done. Likely it is a friction fit and the tool provides enough force to overcome that. > Here is my best-guess procedure for all those CostCo watch buyers out there. > 1. Find a very small (1/2 mm) punch (probably a very tiny brad or nail) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 9. Remove the link and replace only one of the pins > 10. If we're lucky - the pins won't have been destroyed in the process > Does this sound anywhere near like a usable procedure for the new > owners of the Costco 70016 Wenger Swiss Military 200m date watch? Have you asked costco what they suggest you do about the band adjustment ? They may have an arrangement with someone to do that. > Here is my best-guess procedure for all those CostCo watch buyers out > there. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Does this sound anywhere near like a usable procedure for the new > owners of the Costco 70016 Wenger Swiss Military 200m date watch? you can buy the tools off ebay, either one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=5004066795 or this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=5004067208 if the band has the push out pin type and is not a screw or a "U" shaped clip like used in the Seiko bands. but really the best solution for you is to take it to a watchmaker or jeweller and have them do it, I usually charge a couple of dollars, or nothing if they bought watch or band from me. the watchmaker/jeweller would have the right tools and the knowledge of the right way to remove links without damage to the band. some bands are easy, some are real bastards to do. > but really the best solution for you is to take it to a watchmaker or > jeweller and have them do it, I usually charge a couple of dollars, or > nothing if they bought watch or band from me. You don't get pissed off that your customer bought their watch from a big box store? If I were the jeweler I'd probably tell the customer to return to Costco to get the thing adjusted because that's the quality service she paid for. But that's just me perhaps. >>but really the best solution for you is to take it to a watchmaker or >>jeweller and have them do it, I usually charge a couple of dollars, or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to Costco to get the thing adjusted because that's the quality service she > paid for. But that's just me perhaps. all the time, they buy them duty free, on a bargain somwhere etc etc, but come to me for batteries, servicing, and band adjustments, meanwhile my stock just sit there on the shelf, oh well, glad I am not in a shop anymore. > You don't get pissed off that your customer bought their watch from a big > box store? If I were the jeweler I'd probably tell the customer to return > to Costco to get the thing adjusted because that's the quality service she > paid for. But that's just me perhaps. mom and pop shops are there to provide service. costco is there to provide low prices on some items. >> You don't get pissed off that your customer bought their watch from a big >> box store? If I were the jeweler I'd probably tell the customer to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mom and pop shops are there to provide service. costco is there to provide > low prices on some items. True, but the mom and pop can't survive easily on just the service and soon we have no place to go. I've have found that on major appliances it is just as economical to buy from the local dealer these days. Most belong to buyer's co-ops and can sell as cheap as the big stores but they offer services that the big guys cannot touch. Things like same day delivery and setup, hauling off the old appliance. More important, they are there fast if it breaks. Woke up one morning and found the freezer died and it was beyond repairs. Called the dealer, he had freezers in stock, but not the one I wanted. So, he brought another working model as a loaner. Helped transfer the food. Came two days later with the one I wanted, helped transfer the food back. Net loss was a half a container of ice cream. Would Home Depot or Best Buy do that? SignatureEd http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/ > True, but the mom and pop can't survive easily on just the service and soon > we have no place to go. all depends. if their prices are competitive on stuff costco doesnt carry, they should still do well. a lot of mom and pop places sell used estate jewelry and stuff like that, that major retailers wont touch. > How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? (It's not > obvious.) It's not real hard, but may be more than you want to take on. Your son is on the right track, but you don't use a butter knife. More likely, you use a small paperclip of safety pin. Regardless, your best bet, given the fact that this is clearly not your specialty, is to take the watch to a jeweler. At worst, he won't charge much. At best, if you catch him when he's not busy, he'll do it for free, just for the good will. Lee > > How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? (It's not > > obvious.) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > At worst, he won't charge much. At best, if you catch him when he's not > busy, he'll do it for free, just for the good will. I gotta say; For a conservative democrat, you sure are a decent human. <grin> > I gotta say; > > For a conservative democrat, you sure are a decent human. You didn't have to say, but I'm glad you did. Thanks. Lee > How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? (It's not > obvious.) [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > What's the trick to removing and replacing two links in a steel watch > band? I've adjusted quite a few watch bands over the years and each time was different. Have a jeweler do it. He want charge much and he has the tools and know how to do it right. > I bought, at CostCo, the Wenger Swiss Military 200m water proof watch > for my teen-age son's birthday for about 30 dollars (as he wants to > learn how to scuba dive in Monterey Bay). Don't be too surprised if the watch doesn't work well under water. 200m water resistance sounds like is should be ok (since the sport diving limit is 40m). However, if it has any push buttons and they are not specifically designed for constant pressure, they may depress under water pressure. What happens to the watch if the button(s) are constantly held down may be unpredictable. DAMHIKT. Mike > Am I missing something fundamental here? either return the watch for the $50 casio with the vinyl band, or take the wenger to a local jewelry store and have em resize it for a few bucks. Take it to the jewelry counter of a store, and ask their help. Some jewelry folks have done a LOT of these kind of thing, and will have it adjusted for you very soon. SignatureChristopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? (It's not obvious.) I bought, at CostCo, the Wenger Swiss Military 200m water proof watch for my teen-age son's birthday for about 30 dollars (as he wants to learn how to scuba dive in Monterey Bay). His thin wrist in no way fits this Wenger watch band, even wearing his wetsuit, in so much as at least two links need to be removed from the stainless steel watch band, one on each side. Instructions supplied with the blister pack do not explain how to adjust the band (presumably it's so simple that we should be able to figure it out by ourselves using a butter knife)??? His new Wenger Swiss Military watch band has six links on each side, with two (I'll guess they're called) pins holding them together. The three lower links on each side each have a 2 mm arrow embossed into the center of the backside of the plates (for whatever reason, I don't know). My son suspects that arrow is telling us the direction in which to remove the pins holding the links to the watch band. Further evidence these six links are the remove-me links are the fact that a pin of some sort can be seen on a side view of the Wenger watch band for these "arrowed" links only. Problem is - how do we remove those 'pins'? If we punch them out with an incredibly small punch (the pins seem to be about a half millimeter in diameter), won't we ruin them? I mean, what holds them in? Friction? If it's friction, won't we need new pins when we punch out the old ones (presumably stripping the heads)? The other thing is these arrows are not symetrical in that they are only lined up with one of the two pins per link (that is, there is only one arrow per link and that arrow is under only one of the pins per the link). Am I missing something fundamental here? What's the trick to removing and replacing two links in a steel watch band? > How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? (It's not > obvious.) They are all designed a little differently but generally bands with arrows are friction fit and the pin comes out in the direction the arrow points. There is also (generally) a place on the underside of the band that allows access to push the pin out. Every once in a while I run into one that the only way to remove pins is to push them through from the opposite side. Be careful you dont use a tapered punch that widens out the hole when you punch the pin out. You may also need a hammer to punch it out. They usually do any plating on the band with the pins in, which works like glue alot of times. Take the same number of pins out of each side if possible. If not, take the extra pin from the 6 oclock side. If you find the pin wont stay in after relacing it, use a toothpick to put just a touch of super glue on the end of the pin. There is also (usually) some minor adjustment in the spring bars in the clasp. Dont overuse that or the watch will clasp oddly. > I bought, at CostCo, the Wenger Swiss Military 200m water proof watch > for my teen-age son's birthday for about 30 dollars (as he wants to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it's so simple that we should be able to figure it out by ourselves > using a butter knife)??? Presumably you will get it done at the jewelry store where you bought it. Thats one of the drawbacks of buying this type item (kind of like dive gear) at a discount outlet or online. They dont need instructions. > His new Wenger Swiss Military watch band has six links on each side, > with two (I'll guess they're called) pins holding them together. The > three lower links on each side each have a 2 mm arrow embossed into the > center of the backside of the plates (for whatever reason, I don't > know). My son suspects that arrow is telling us the direction in which > to remove the pins holding the links to the watch band. Hes probably right. > Further evidence these six links are the remove-me links are the fact > that a pin of some sort can be seen on a side view of the Wenger watch [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If it's friction, won't we need new pins when we punch out the old ones > (presumably stripping the heads)? They are probably friction pins and, no, you wont need new pins unless you take them out regularly. > The other thing is these arrows are not symetrical in that they are > only lined up with one of the two pins per link (that is, there is only [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What's the trick to removing and replacing two links in a steel watch > band? Take it to someone that knows what they are doing and has the proper tools. > > How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? > Presumably you will get it done at the jewelry store I first called a nearby jewelry store I found in the phone book before asking you. The guy who answered the phone said it would cost "only $40" (which is more than I paid for the Wenger scuba dive watch at CostCo). I asked what he based that fee upon and he said it would take 20 minutes and he gets $120 an hour to fix watches so his estimate was $40 dollars to adjust the steel band. After that, I didn't call anyone else as it was clear it would cost more than the watch to have the band adjusted. VCS > After that, I didn't call anyone else as it was clear it would cost > more than the watch to have the band adjusted. Bummer, unless you are just barely smart enough to: A) Not buy a $40 chunk of sh.t watch that doesnt fit without having a jeweler make the adjustment. B) Do it yourself. If you cant do either, be ready to pay someone who is. > > > How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? > > Presumably you will get it done at the jewelry store [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > After that, I didn't call anyone else as it was clear it would cost > more than the watch to have the band adjusted. I think the jewellers answer was a crock. Take it over to a cheap watch kiosk at a mall. They'll fix it for ya for $5. >> Vanessa wrote >>> How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? >> Presumably you will get it done at the jewelry store > I first called a nearby jewelry store I found > in the phone book before asking you. > The guy who answered the phone said it would cost "only $40" > (which is more than I paid for the Wenger scuba dive watch at CostCo). > I asked what he based that fee upon and he said it would > take 20 minutes and he gets $120 an hour to fix watches > so his estimate was $40 dollars to adjust the steel band. > After that, I didn't call anyone else as it was clear it would > cost more than the watch to have the band adjusted. Its not clear at all, you dont know that they all gouge like that. Did you actually ask costco what they suggest you do about it ? Bet they do have some way to get the bands adjusted. If they dont, buy one of the tools off ebay, it aint rocket science. >>> Vanessa wrote > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Did you actually ask costco what they suggest you do about it ? > Bet they do have some way to get the bands adjusted. And if they dont, return it for a full refund and ring around the jewellers and find one that will match costco's price, tell them what costco wants for that watch, and buy it from them and get them to adjust the band when you buy it. > I first called a nearby jewelry store I found in the phone book before > asking you. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > After that, I didn't call anyone else as it was clear it would cost > more than the watch to have the band adjusted. nah that's total rubbish, he just doesn't want to do your watch so he quotes a ridiculous price, just ask around its only a 5-10 minute job for someone with the right tools. I would hate to take a battery job to that guy, he would probably charge $40 for a battery swap and no pressure test. anyway the point is the tool is about $20, if you have a few bands to do good, but if you only have one band it's a bit of a waste, it shouldn't cost more than $10 to resize the band. > anyway the point is the tool is about $20, if you have a few bands to do > good, but if you only have one band it's a bit of a waste, it shouldn't > cost more than $10 to resize the band. I don't mind buying the tool as you never know when you'll need them and it's good to have the right tool on hand. Do you know what it's called & where's a decent place to buy quantity one? (I'd never buy off of ebay though - it's > 25% stolen goods according to my friend's husband who is in the high tech crime unit of the police dept). So if you know of a non-ebay source for this tool, of quantity one, for about twenty bucks - lots of us would probably like to know where to get a deal like that. Vanessa Cara Stancinni > I don't mind buying the tool as you never know when you'll need them > and it's good to have the right tool on hand. You sound like such a tool that I'm surprised you can't do the job by yourself. > Do you know what it's called & where's a decent place to buy quantity > one? It's called the watch-band disassembler thingamajig and they're available on e-bay. > (I'd never buy off of ebay though - it's > 25% stolen goods according > to my friend's husband who is in the high tech crime unit of the police > dept). High tech crime unit? You mean he investigates car stereo thefts? Trust me, there's not a huge market for stolen watch-band disassembler thingamajigs even on ebay. The latest statistics, from my friend's wife's cousin's mother's imaginary friend, is that less than 5% of the watch-band disassembler thingamajigs sold on ebay are hot. The rest are legitimate, sold by other good folk just like you who had to buy a $50 tool to fix their on-sale-now $40 watches. > So if you know of a non-ebay source for this tool, of quantity one, for > about twenty bucks - lots of us would probably like to know where to > get a deal like that. > > Vanessa Cara Stancinni There's lots more like you? God help us . . . >> anyway the point is the tool is about $20, if you have a few >> bands to do good, but if you only have one band it's a bit of >> a waste, it shouldn't cost more than $10 to resize the band. > I don't mind buying the tool as you never know when you'll > need them and it's good to have the right tool on hand. > Do you know what it's called & where's > a decent place to buy quantity one? Ebay. > (I'd never buy off of ebay though - it's > 25% stolen > goods according to my friend's husband who is in > the high tech crime unit of the police dept). Very unlikely indeed that a tool like that would be stolen. And its easy enough to avoid any risk of stolen stuff with ebay, just look for one of the operations thats clearly using ebay as a cheap way of doing online transactions with a significant volume of the same stuff sold on ebay. > So if you know of a non-ebay source for this tool, > of quantity one, for about twenty bucks - lots of us > would probably like to know where to get a deal like that. Makes a lot more sense to use ebay and recognise that a tool like that isnt likely to be stolen, particularly if its unused. >>anyway the point is the tool is about $20, if you have a few bands to do >>good, but if you only have one band it's a bit of a waste, it shouldn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Do you know what it's called & where's a decent place to buy quantity > one? id call a few more jewelers. hell- take it to walmart, and tell em you got it at the local sams club (walmart owns sams), mebbe theyll do it for free. > (I'd never buy off of ebay though - it's > 25% stolen goods according > to my friend's husband who is in the high tech crime unit of the police [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Vanessa Cara Stancinni usenet rule number one: never use your complete name. > usenet rule number one: > > never use your complete name. Why not? >>usenet rule number one: >> >>never use your complete name. > > Why not? spammers, they scan newsgroups for full names and real email addresses, so if you suddenly start getting lots of spam, thats why, your use of your real email leaves you open to that abuse eg just use "Greg" or a nickname and put a spam blocker in your email eg; mossmanAT@qnetDOTcom mossman@NOSPAMqnet.com >> SoCalMike <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote >>> usenet rule number one: >>> never use your complete name. >> Why not? > spammers, they scan newsgroups for full names Nope. > and real email addresses, so if you suddenly start getting lots of spam, thats > why, Not with the full name it aint. > your use of your real email leaves you open to that abuse And its completely trivial for anyone with a clue to deal with that. > eg just use "Greg" or a nickname and put a spam blocker in your email No thanks. > No thanks. whatever, I wasn't asking for your opinion, Rod >> No thanks. > > whatever, I wasn't asking for your opinion, Rod No one asked for yours, gutless. > > No thanks. > > whatever, I wasn't asking for your opinion, Rod Rule #1 of USENET: Whenever you post anything, you're soliciting everyone in the world for their opinion of what you wrote. -hh > Rule #1 of USENET: > > Whenever you post anything, you're soliciting everyone in the world for > their opinion of what you wrote. Corollary #1a of USENET: You had just better hope that everyone in the world doesn't answer. >>>No thanks. >> >>whatever, I wasn't asking for your opinion, Rod > > Rule #1 of USENET: No, rule #1 is to pay attention to what newsgroups you are posting to when you reply, and don't let trolls goad you into starting flame wars across groups.. This doesn't belong in alt.horology, followups set. > No, rule #1 is to pay attention to what newsgroups you are posting to > when you reply, and don't let trolls goad you into starting flame wars > across groups.. This doesn't belong in alt.horology, followups set. Well, it doesn't belong in rec.scuba either... If they're too stupid to adjust the band themselves, they don't belong in *our* newsgroup... >>anyway the point is the tool is about $20, if you have a few bands to do >>good, but if you only have one band it's a bit of a waste, it shouldn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Do you know what it's called & where's a decent place to buy quantity > one? yep either this one which will probably be fine with band on that watch http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=5004647025 or this one which is a bit more versatile http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10363&item=5004751962 first one will cost you $13 the second one about $21 > (I'd never buy off of ebay though - it's > 25% stolen goods according > to my friend's husband who is in the high tech crime unit of the police > dept). yeah well you are being a bit paranoid, sure I suppose there would some stolen goods on ebay, but in this case I don't think there is a real big market in stolen watch tools, anyway its like anything, buyer beware, you look at the feedbacks, specially what kind of feedbacks, buy from high volume sellers with good feedbacks, I use ebay quite a bit and have saved quite a bit of money in doing so, eg; I fly Radio control planes or slope soarer's for a hobby, the last set of micro servos I bought from ebay cost me $12 each, the same servo in the shops is around $65. and I have bought this guy before for tools, he is quite good. > So if you know of a non-ebay source for this tool, of quantity one, for > about twenty bucks - lots of us would probably like to know where to > get a deal like that. again I think its more than likely you will use the tool once and then never touch it again, also if you snap the punch off in the band and jam it then you are going to have a bigger problem. there has to be someone near you that will adjust the band for $5-$10 >(I'd never buy off of ebay though - it's > 25% stolen goods according >to my friend's husband who is in the high tech crime unit of the police >dept). And 53% of all statistics are made up according to my dogcatcher's cousin who once thought about signing up for a statistics course. >>>How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > VCS got a deal then, didn't you? SignatureYour ridiculous little opinion has been noted. My diesel truck has been modified to run on an environmentally friendly mixture of clean burning Caribou fat and whale oil. "Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K. Chesterton >> The guy who answered the phone said it would cost "only $40" (which is >> more than I paid for the Wenger scuba dive watch at CostCo). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> After that, I didn't call anyone else as it was clear it would cost >> more than the watch to have the band adjusted. Had you bought the watch from him, it would have been free. What is his price for the watch? Probably five bucks more but with the service you require. >>>The guy who answered the phone said it would cost "only $40" (which is >>>more than I paid for the Wenger scuba dive watch at CostCo). [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > price for the watch? Probably five bucks more but with the service you > require. uh- probably at least double the price, IF the jeweler carries wenger, which he may not. >>>How do we adjust a too-large stainless steel watch band? >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > After that, I didn't call anyone else as it was clear it would cost > more than the watch to have the band adjusted. that person obviously didnt want to be bothered, and blew you off. did you tell them... "i need a metal watch band adjusted" or "i just got this new watch at costco, how much to adjust the band?" not that its any of their business whether its a 20 year old wenger family heirloom, or a new one from costco. In searching how to adjust your Costco Wenger Swiss Military watch band, I found these references which may help you out. http://www.dreamretail.com/RemovingLinks.html and http://www.schlatter.org/watchband.htm "Remember you have to remove at least 2 pins to remove a link. For more than 1 link, you have to remove evenly from both ends of the bracelet or the buckle will end up in the wrong place - you want the buckle to end up on the flat of your wrist. This is NOT 1/2 way because of anatomy - the top 1/2 needs to be considerably shorter than the bottom. So that is at least 4 pins that need to come out and then 2 to be driven back in." These work for other watches, but I didn't find any references to the tool that is actually needed for your watch. > > The guy who answered the phone said it would cost "only $40" (which is > > more than I paid for the Wenger scuba dive watch at CostCo). > > > > I asked what he based that fee upon and he said it would take 20 > > minutes and he gets $120 an hour to fix watches so his estimate was $40 > > dollars to adjust the steel band. Where can I get a tool to OPEN THE BACK of the watch? I recently took my watch to a local jewelry store who quoted $8 dollars to adjust the steel band but who actually charged me $16 dollars because it was 8 dollars PER SIDE! When I asked why, he said he had to take a link out of each side so he charged double the quote! If I knew that it would cost me that much (half the price of the watch) I would have purchased a kit to do it myself. Does anyone have a good reference for a watch kit that will also open up the back of the watch (it has a six dents equally spaced in the back of the watch for whatever tool goes there). BTW, the actual links are really a half-round pin, folded over, flat sides touching, so that it looks like a slotted flathead screwdriver on the side it comes out and it looks like a round head on the side you punch but it's really just a half-round doubled over length of metal pin acting like a spring because it's bent over in half. Now that the band is fixed, I've learned my do-it-yourself lesson the hard way. But, where can I get a tool to OPEN THE BACK of the watch? >BTW, the actual links are really a half-round pin, folded over, flat >sides touching, so that it looks like a slotted flathead screwdriver on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Now that the band is fixed, I've learned my do-it-yourself lesson the >hard way. That 8 bucks a side is a rip off. Those pushpins are generally easy as pie to knock out and back in. 10 bucks(Aussie) would have been a fair price. And you'd be paying for my time(all 3 minutes of it) and my knowledge(we'll assume i'm good at what i do). :) >But, where can I get a tool to OPEN THE BACK of the watch? Here is one that should do the job. It's cheap enough to try. http://www.slarose.com/cgi-bin/slarose/063263 And here are some others. If your budget and interest is big enough, then get the on the top of the page. "Jaxa Swiss" is the pro's choice. http://www.ofrei.com/page557.html Have fun. SignatureRegards, Frank Well, we finally adjusted the Wenger Swiss Military watch band! After googling & froogling for "watch band link remover adjustment", we realized for ten to twenty bucks we could buy the needed metal watch band link adjustment tool. I also stopped off at another jeweler who said he'd adjust the watch band for fifteen bucks which was more than some of the tools so I respectfully declined. We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing a link on each side by removing four pins total and putting back two of them. Leftovers were two links and two cotter pins as shown in the photos I just hosted here http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8283/watcha5pr.jpg and here http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6603/watchb3dk.jpg Notice the link is actually two pieces of metal bent together as mentioned by someone in this thread previously. If anyone wants me to, I can measure the diameter of the pin with a micrometer that the boys at work have if you need that data. The hardest part my son said was he kept losing the pins on the garage floor and it took him a while to find a thin enough pin pushing tool - he eventually used what is shown in the photos. VCS <snip> >We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing a >link on each side by removing four pins total and putting back two of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Notice the link is actually two pieces of metal bent together as >mentioned by someone in this thread previously. Yep, they are quite common and are easy to remove as long as you do have a small and hard enough pin. When i say pin, it should be a flat top punch. Pins will just damage the band's pin and it may never come out. Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need: http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html As you say for 15 or so bucks there are a few there, which will tackle your band quite nicely. >If anyone wants me to, I can measure the diameter of the pin with a >micrometer that the boys at work have if you need that data. The >hardest part my son said was he kept losing the pins on the garage >floor and it took him a while to find a thin enough pin pushing tool - >he eventually used what is shown in the photos. An old ground flat 0.70-.80 screwdriver does wonderfully well.. :-) SignatureRegards, Frank > <snip> >> We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing a [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> > An old ground flat 0.70-.80 screwdriver does wonderfully well.. :-) And even if you have to buy one to grind flat, they cost peanuts. >> <snip> >>> We ended up pushing the pins out with a bent steel pin and removing [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >>> >> An old ground flat 0.70-.80 screwdriver does wonderfully well.. :-) > And even if you have to buy one to grind flat, they cost peanuts. Pity its not true of the screw back removers. > Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need: > http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html Q: Which of the tools removes the Rolex Oyster Perpetual back cover? Fifteen years ago I bought a second-hand steel/gold Rolex Oyster Perpetual (pre sapphire crystal) date adjust watch (just the numers, not the day of the week) for about $1800 if I remember correctly. >From a frugality standpoint, I was sick and tired of battery replacement, watch band deterioration, and winding battery-less watches; so, from that standpoint, it was a bargain in that this watch is self winding, the gold/steel band is practically indestructable, and, of course, no batteries! However, the first "adjustment" cost $300; the first major overhaul cost $800, and now it's broken again (my kids dropped it on the cement and it stopped working instantly). So, from a frugality & reliablity standpoint, this watch has been a bust (it's just sitting in my "things to fix" drawer). I'm done taking it to a watchsmith (see why above). Now I just want to see if I can visually see what is broken inside. Maybe it's something simple that I can get fixed for less than $800. Therefore, I just want to take off the back plate, Q: Which of the tools would you recommend to open the Rolex Oyster Perpetual? > Therefore, I just want to take off the back plate, > Q: Which of the tools would you recommend to open the Rolex Oyster > Perpetual? http://makeashorterlink.com/?U35D3137B Opens 'em right up. >>Therefore, I just want to take off the back plate, >>Q: Which of the tools would you recommend to open the Rolex Oyster [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Opens 'em right up. And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you $100 for the watch. SignatureNoah <And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you <$100 for the watch. Honest Noah ?!? > And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you > $100 for the watch. you are being generous :) would not give him $5 after he has finished with it. > > And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you > > $100 for the watch. > > you are being generous :) > > would not give him $5 after he has finished with it. How much is the scrap value? >>>And, Rusty, when you're finished with your DIY repair, I'll give you >>>$100 for the watch. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How much is the scrap value? for the raw materials not much unless there is some gold in the case or movement, for undamaged secondhand parts you would make a bit back, but you would have to cover stripping out the parts, id them, pack and post, sell them on ebay :) > for the raw materials not much unless there is some gold in the case or > movement, for undamaged secondhand parts you would make a bit back, but > you would have to cover stripping out the parts, id them, pack and post, > sell them on ebay :) In other words, less than the 10k price for new. But, we who dont need a 10k watch already knew. > "dAz" <dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau> wrote in message > > In other words, less than the 10k price for new. > > But, we who dont need a 10k watch already knew. the cost of materials is nothing, why it annoyed me during the 70s when gold went through the roof that people were scraping gold pocket watches for the sake of a few grams of gold, many fine and compicated watches were lost during that time. > > "dAz" <dazb@zipDOTcomDOTau> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > for the sake of a few grams of gold, many fine and compicated watches > were lost during that time. I am a machninst by trade, and fully appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a Rolex. At the same time I realize that Rolex trades in a name and a brand that rich people think put feathers in their hat. It is a very inportant issue to have the image a Rolex on your wrist (Chinese rip off or otherwise) to many people, becuase they feel they have rub their wealt up against others with wealth. It can be the biggest chunk of sh.t ever made, but what sells it is the perception of exclusivity. After all, only the elite and wealthy can afford and appreciate a ten thousand dollar watch, that is an overpriced chunk of sh.t. > It can be the biggest chunk of sh.t ever made, but what sells it is the > perception of exclusivity. > > After all, only the elite and wealthy can afford and appreciate a ten > thousand dollar watch, that is an overpriced chunk of sh.t. Hi Scott, I see you normally hang out on rec.scuba so you probably wouldn't think of wearing a Rolex watch because you need other features in a diving watch, which I can agree with. But, I do think your concerns deserve addressing. First off, this water resistant Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust chronometer was no where near ten thousand dollars in cost. That may be the case (even more actually) for a gold Rolex; but this DateJust is stainless steel and gold and it only cost me about $1800, used (more than a decade ago). Since it's working again, polished up, I could probably get that much for it (based in input I see today) on the open market, so, at least it held its value (albeit not above inflation) in the intervening years. Why would anyone buy a two thousand dollar watch is still a valid question. Did you ever buy something just because it was well made? Did you ever buy something to last forever (your lifetime as the measure)? Did you ever buy something because you thought it would be maintenance free? If not, you'll never understand why anyone could pay thousands of dollars for a watch when a ten dollar Casio tells time better. For that matter, why buy a forty thousand dollar Bimmer or a seventeen thousand dollar Beemer when a twenty thousand dollar Chevy gets you from point a to point b just as fast. Now, in my case, the "illusion" of maintenance free was a farce (as it cost me over $1100 in repairs alone already) - but the other two concerns (well made and it should last forever, with maintenance) still seem valid to me at this time. This is a well made watch. Probably just as well made as that $2500 rubber-banded analog Tag Heuer 2000 Aquagraph or Bell & Ross Hydromax you wear yourself when diving today. RD <snip> > Why would anyone buy a two thousand dollar watch is still a valid > question. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > RD Hi Rusty, How can you still consider it well made , when you already had to spent 1100$ on repairs? At this rate I would put the money aside and buy an new one instead of trying to make it 'last forever'. Michael, who (for already quite some time) uses a 230$ Seiko when diving... (OK, I bought it duty free) SignatureMichael Wolf ----- Cthulhu For President. Why settle for the lesser evil? remove stopspam to reply > How can you still consider it well made when you already had to spent > 1100$ on repairs? This is a good point. I'm not so sure anymore about Rolex. Certainly I'd never buy another one nor recommend it. But, I'm already sunk in the Rolex mud, so to speak. Amortized, it's been about $100 a year for maintenance for this Rolex watch. Of course, that might not be a representative number (I have no idea). I wonder what other people pay in "typical" Rolex maintenance. Certainly I had gone in on the watch with the assumption of it lasting forever with little to no maintenance; and just as certainly, I've had over $100 a year in unexpected maintenance & repair costs ... yet I wonder what OTHER people experience. Maybe my experience is atypical. I don't know. At the moment, my main problem is assessing whether its worth fixing. One thing I may do is buy the tools to open it up and to remove the band. Once I open it up the right way (I don't want to hack it again), I might see what's broken inside. BTW, after shaking it violently yesterday, it worked for about 12 hours then stopped again. I suspect an attachment point broke but I won't know until I open it up again. Sure I can stop at a jeweler to ask him to open it but I don't mind buying the tools if I can get them at a reasonable price. Speaking or wrist watches, what do others consider to be features of the "perfect" watch? Here's my personal criteria: Light weight- I don't prefer a heavy watch Rugged case and band- I wear mine 24/7 Metallic Link band- easy on and off, no water problems like leather Sapphire crystal for scratch resistance Analog- I'm old and I have to think too much to use digital time Day, Date- (see above- grin) Quartz crystal accuracy- even a cheap quartz watch is more accurate than most mechanical Self energizing- no batteries to fool with Water resistant to at least 100'- if it's lower than that and I'm attached, it doesn't matter. This covers the pool, spa and shower, for me. Visible all night long without pressing any button What this all boils down to is my Seiko Kinetic Titanium watch with the Illuminator face. Being Titanium, the watch and band are rugged, light and easy to take off or put on. The analog watch is driven by a Quartz movement for accuracy, and the charge is maintained by an actual generator in the watch- like a perpetual mechanical watch. The entire face is lighted all night, with the hands visible by the backlighting. The watch was $450 in the late 90's and is now about $300 in St. Maarten or St. Thomas. The drawback to this is that it's not a showy watch, but at least the Titanium case and band have some gold plated areas that look great. I got mine about 1997 or so, as I recall, and it has been working great ever since. Nobody > Speaking or wrist watches, what do others consider to be features of the > "perfect" watch? I dont bother with them anymore, I get the time from the cellphone in the rare situation where I care about the time. > Here's my personal criteria: > Light weight- I don't prefer a heavy watch > Rugged case and band- I wear mine 24/7 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > spa and shower, for me. > Visible all night long without pressing any button > What this all boils down to is my Seiko Kinetic Titanium > watch with the Illuminator face. Being Titanium, the watch [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > by the backlighting. The watch was $450 in the late 90's > and is now about $300 in St. Maarten or St. Thomas. > The drawback to this is that it's not a showy watch, but at > least the Titanium case and band have some gold plated areas > that look great. I got mine about 1997 or so, as I recall, > and it has been working great ever since. >>How can you still consider it well made when you already had to spent >>1100$ on repairs? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Of course, that might not be a representative number (I have no idea). > I wonder what other people pay in "typical" Rolex maintenance. FWIW, I have a Tag 2000 automatic, and I have averaged about $20 per year for the past 14 years on maintenance.(not counting broken and/or melted crystals, which are certainly not the watches fault) But I don't take it diving... Signature"Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K. Chesterton > >>How can you still consider it well made when you already had to spent > >>1100$ on repairs? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > But I don't take it diving... I'm afraid to ask - how do you "melt" a crystal. > € rustydustin@yahoo.com wrote: > € [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I'm afraid to ask - how do you "melt" a crystal. Casting aluminum and Iron. If you forget to take them off, you can sometimes crack them from spatter when welding without gloves. Breaking them from imapacts while wearing your watch on your wrist is more painful, however, and the effects are probably longer lasting. Suprisingly, they resist a grinding wheel quite well. YMMV Signature"Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K. Chesterton > Michael Wolf wrote: > I'm afraid to ask - how do you "melt" a crystal. plexiglass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plexiglass and many others you can find with google sapphire crystal: look for thread "sapphire glass types" April 11-14, 2005 > sapphire crystal: look for thread "sapphire glass types" April 11-14, > 2005 which group? (since this was crossposted) Signature"Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K. Chesterton > Hi Scott, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > dollar Beemer when a twenty thousand dollar Chevy gets you from point a > to point b just as fast. How about a used Mazda truck that cost $1,000, and gets 28 MPG? > Now, in my case, the "illusion" of maintenance free was a farce (as it > cost me over $1100 in repairs alone already) - but the other two > concerns (well made and it should last forever, with maintenance) still > seem valid to me at this time. Which is the hook. > This is a well made watch. Probably just as well made as that $2500 > rubber-banded analog Tag Heuer 2000 Aquagraph or Bell & Ross Hydromax > you wear yourself when diving today. I have a Rolex. A gold Oyster Perpetual. It was given to me by the gent who owned the 61' Swan I crewed. (If you want to know what hell is, just change the starter on the Volvo Penta diesel that the Swan was built around. I swear they must have suspended that engine magnetically and built the boat around it.) It doesn't work. It's a piece of junk. But its purty. I have an UWATEC bottom timer for diving. I am a machinist by trade, so I don't wear watches or any other jewelry; potentially bad for the limbs. >>Hi Scott, >> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > I am a machinist by trade, so I don't wear watches or any other jewelry; > potentially bad for the limbs. Hi, Rolex is used car sales man's favourite. Won't even make onto the list of 10 best watches in the world. There are many other fine watches. Not going too high, I like IWC. Tony > http://makeashorterlink.com/?U35D3137B > > Opens 'em right up. I was going to suggest the Texas Watch Opener: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000224J9.01-A3GWFGDE3FDRVJ.LZZZZZZZ.jpg > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?U35D3137B > > > > Opens 'em right up. > > I was going to suggest the Texas Watch Opener: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000224J9.01-A3GWFGDE3FDRVJ.LZZZZZZZ.jpg Makes a fairly poor hammer. >> Here are some band tools if anyone else is in need: >> http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html > >Q: Which of the tools removes the Rolex Oyster Perpetual back cover? If you are already buying the Jaxa case opener, it comes with bits 'D', which have surrated jaws. As long as you can clamp the watch down somehow and push down real hard on the back as you turn it, that will open most Rolex cases. Problem is, if the back is very tight, it *can* slip and damage the back. Some of the other cheaper Jaxa-like sets may be ok too for a one off job, but it's a trial and error. The proper opener should be a round ring which fits the back perfectly. On this page you can find some Rolex case tools. http://www.ofrei.com/page557.html As you'll see they are not exactly cheap. One could almost buy a quarter of a Rolex for the best priced one. ;-) >However, the first "adjustment" cost $300; the first major overhaul >cost $800, and now it's broken again (my kids dropped it on the cement >and it stopped working instantly). So, from a frugality & reliablity >standpoint, this watch has been a bust (it's just sitting in my "things >to fix" drawer). Thank Rolex for driving up their own prices and making it unprofitable to most watchmakers to even contemplate touching their watches. Mind you, dropped watches are not really an indication of a quality problem. Rest assured you have a fine watch there. What should be remembered is that most customers will only have their watches serviced when they stop. This could be as much as 10-15 years intervals and frankly in that time you've spent how much on servicing your car, which sits in the parking lot 70% of it's life ? :) Every 5 years, folks. Oils *are* oils. ps: Hope this x-post is not ticking people off at rec.scuba, m.c.f and a.h.r. If so, <points finger> he started it, go get him ! ;-) SignatureRegards, Frank the pins have bob at one end sorta. end is split and sorta widdened out for resistence. i used a hammer and push pin to pop em out in direction of arrows Signatureaihyah ok just finished adjusting. yes its the same watch. 65-25 dollar coupon and such at costco. its ok for the price and to beat around. just gotta use a thin nail or push pin and hammer to pop em out. only the very end that pops out a bit has the friction hold..the bulgey bit. rest just slides right out. just do it on a relatively solid surface..with side of links on a flat surface while the bit with the pin overhangs. you may need eanother person to hold the actual watch bit since it has to hang over the side of the desk or whatever too so the band can be flat. i did it with a little grappling. i came here with a google search for clues. the picture of the pin extractor device made it clear enough that the pins just need to be pushed straight out..nothing too complicated. no experience before this:) Signatureaihyah Take a small brad and punch out the pin in the direction of the arrow. Do this step for as many links that you need to remove. Replace the pin in the reverse to put the band back together, if it is still to large, adjust the clasp by moving the spring loade pins to a diff. hole in the clasp. Hope this helps! SignatureDAN1184 |
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