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Scuba Forum / General / June 2005

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barnacle removal

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mel  h - 15 Jun 2005 00:17 GMT
Anyone out there ever took barnacles off by diving. I am going to clean a
friend of mines dads boat because he is very sick and cannot perform this
task. Does anyone know how long it takes? The boat is 45ft. thanks.
Alan Street - 15 Jun 2005 02:14 GMT
> Anyone out there ever took barnacles off by diving. I am going to clean a
> friend of mines dads boat because he is very sick and cannot perform this
> task. Does anyone know how long it takes? The boat is 45ft. thanks.

Depending on the condition of the bottom, anywhere from a couple of
hours to a couple of weeks.
Charlie Hammond - 15 Jun 2005 14:06 GMT
>€ Anyone out there ever took barnacles off by diving. I am going to clean a
>€ friend of mines dads boat because he is very sick and cannot perform this
>€ task. Does anyone know how long it takes? The boat is 45ft. thanks.
>
>Depending on the condition of the bottom, anywhere from a couple of
>hours to a couple of weeks.

In other words, you may be taking on more than you you think.

It also seems to me that you would want to be repainting the bottom
at the same time -- which implies pulling the boat out of the water.
But then, what to I know.  Maybe some knowledgeable boat owner will
know better.  

..'course some would say that "knowledgeable boat owner" is an oxymoron...
       <smile>

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

keysclub@bellsouth.net - 15 Jun 2005 13:06 GMT
I am going to clean a
> friend of mines dads boat because he is very sick

Of cleaning barnacles?

What kind of bottom. If its just Gelcote, you can use elbow grease and
care with a hand scraper. Friends to help are a plus.

If its got a good coat of bottom paint and you have the touch, you may
consider cheap, compressor driven air tools. Rotating abrasives or
reciprocating blades.

No gouging or scratching allowed.

Good luck, have fun, log the dives so you can look back and say never
again.

Remember that no good deed goes unpunished.
mel  h - 15 Jun 2005 22:07 GMT
Okay, the way it sounds from you guys it looks like a hard job. We are going
to be using a tool called the SPEEDBLADE BY Fisher Powerwave. It's a litle
submersable 12 volt tool that oscilliates in the use of removing barnacles.
It was purchased through West Marine. They have a cool website speedblade.com.

The bottom of the boat is metal and from what I have been told the barnacles
are 1/2 inch to 1 inch
thick. Whats so hard about the job? The diving part or it's hard physically
to remove them? I do know that the water is darker due to it being on the
Intercoastal W W. Also if the tide is coming or going also, that may be a
factor. Whos got some good ideas since this is my first time doing this.
>I am going to clean a
>> friend of mines dads boat because he is very sick
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Remember that no good deed goes unpunished.
James Connell - 15 Jun 2005 23:29 GMT
mel h via ScubaMonster.com wrote:
> Okay, the way it sounds from you guys it looks like a hard job. We are going
> to be using a tool called the SPEEDBLADE BY Fisher Powerwave. It's a litle
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Intercoastal W W. Also if the tide is coming or going also, that may be a
> factor. Whos got some good ideas since this is my first time doing this.

just get under the boat, inflate your bc way up to hold you in place
against the bottom of the hull and get to work.
keysclub@bellsouth.net - 15 Jun 2005 23:35 GMT
Cool looking tool.  I hope it works.
A 45 foot boat should be a good test.
A steel hull is a bit more forgiving than fiberglass.
Post how it works out when your done.
The base of a 1" barnacle can be tenacious.
Lee Bell - 16 Jun 2005 04:20 GMT
> Cool looking tool.  I hope it works.
> A 45 foot boat should be a good test.
> A steel hull is a bit more forgiving than fiberglass.
> Post how it works out when your done.
> The base of a 1" barnacle can be tenacious.

If it's steel.  My bet is aluminum.

Lee
Alan Street - 16 Jun 2005 07:00 GMT
> > Cool looking tool.  I hope it works.
> > A 45 foot boat should be a good test.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> If it's steel.  My bet is aluminum.

Mine bet isn't

But if it is, then the bottom treatment is less than trivial.

Aluminum hulls on 45' boats are kind of rare, at least in my waters (I
have no idea if they're usual in Fla.). Aluminum is lower on the
galvanic series than copper, so if you have an aluminum hull you can't
use a copper based bottom paint, and even something as trivial as a
penny dropped into the bilge can do some serious damage to the hull.
This isn't real problem with a 15' trailerable dinghy or with a 150'
research vessel that has a 2" thick hull, but with boats in the 50'
range, it can be (in particular, I know of a 45' racing sailboat built
with a honeycomb core Al hull that is incredibly susceptable to
corrosion. The owner of this boat actually makes you empty your pockets
before boarding to make sure you don't have any pennies. One could
cause a hole in the hull). Tributultin is the preferred antifoulant for
Al hulls, but this is illegal for boats under 150' in the US and
irrelavant for boats that aren't kept in the water, such as a 15'
skiff. 50' Al boats require a a fair amount of regular maintenanceto
keep them clean. If this is really a 45' boat with an Al hull, then one
inch barnacles imply quite a bit of neglect and I'd be cautious about
applying too much force or abrasion to clean the bottom. Sinking the
boat while cleaning it is frowned upon ;-)

As for the diving details, the advice to inflate your BC and let this
push you up against the hull isn't a good way to clean a hull. Cleaning
hulls *is* crappy work, but the best way is to be as neutral as
possible. The pros keep their tanks and first stages on the pier, and
dive with a really hose between their first and second stages, making
themselves as light as possible. Barring that, strip everything from
your BC, and weight yourself to be as neutral as possible. It will be a
challenge to keep yourself close the hull while you push against it to
clean it,, but that's the challenge, and one reason why you want to
keep the hull as clean as possible if it's to be cleaned in the water.
Overbuoyancy won't help (most of the hull surface isn't horizontal), so
being neutrally buoyant will make it a little easier to keep yourself
against the hull (although nothing is going to make it easier).

Bottom line - you might be taking on a really big task that you
shouldn't take on, for a variety of reasons. You might also be agreeing
to help out someone who has maintained his boat very well and just
needs some regular, routine help. If it's the former, be prepared to
bail quickly. If it's the latter, then be prepared to spend two to four
hours scrubbing the hull with scotchbrite pads and other tools. If you
want to make a habit of this, then plan to invest in a 75-100' second
stage hose, along with a regulator set designated just for hull
cleaning.

Alan
Lee Bell - 16 Jun 2005 11:08 GMT
> ? If it's steel.  My bet is aluminum.

> Mine bet isn't

Strikers and Marionettes, as I recall, are aluminum.  I'm sure there are
others that I'm not aware of.  While I know steel hull boats exist, I don't
know who makes them in the 50 foot range.  Fiberglass is, by far, has been
the more common material.

> But if it is, then the bottom treatment is less than trivial.

You bet.

> Bottom line - you might be taking on a really big task that you
> shouldn't take on, for a variety of reasons. You might also be agreeing
> to help out someone who has maintained his boat very well and just
> needs some regular, routine help. If it's the former, be prepared to
> bail quickly.

I don't think I'd represent it as bailing.  I see it more like admitting
that the job is beyond his ability to do correctly.

> If it's the latter, then be prepared to spend two to four
> hours scrubbing the hull with scotchbrite pads and other tools. If you
> want to make a habit of this, then plan to invest in a 75-100' second
> stage hose, along with a regulator set designated just for hull
> cleaning.

Down here, those that take on hull cleaning jobs often use an electric
compressor and long hose rather than tanks.  Tanks are fine for amateurs,
but time is money and it takes time to get them filled.

Lee
keysclub@bellsouth.net - 16 Jun 2005 13:19 GMT
>Strikers and Marionettes, as I recall, are aluminum.  I'm sure there are
>others that I'm not aware of.  While I know steel hull boats exist, I don't
>know who makes them in the 50 foot range.  Fiberglass is, by far, has been
>the more common material.

Lantana Boat Yard built quite a few Aluminum boats over the years
although I don't know if any were that small. At least one of the
Seamist Fleet in Boynton is an example of their work..

I'm real skeptical of that vibrating scraper. !/2" to 1" barnacles
would indicate more than just a little growth.
Lee Bell - 16 Jun 2005 14:01 GMT
> >Strikers and Marionettes, as I recall, are aluminum.  I'm sure there are
>>others that I'm not aware of.  While I know steel hull boats exist, I
>>don't
>>know who makes them in the 50 foot range.  Fiberglass is, by far, has been
>>the more common material.

> Lantana Boat Yard built quite a few Aluminum boats over the years
> although I don't know if any were that small. At least one of the
> Seamist Fleet in Boynton is an example of their work..

> I'm real skeptical of that vibrating scraper. !/2" to 1" barnacles
> would indicate more than just a little growth.

I took the 1/2 inch to 1 inch with a grain of salt.  If it's really that
thick a coating, we both know the job is best done in a boatyard and
probably by a professional.  I considered the possibility that what he
really meant was that there were some half inch to one inch barnacles on the
boat, a condition that might be much less severe.

Lee
Alan Street - 16 Jun 2005 16:04 GMT
> Down here, those that take on hull cleaning jobs often use an electric
> compressor and long hose rather than tanks.  Tanks are fine for amateurs,

Down here, many marinas and yacht clubs have banned compressors because
they make too much noise. Also, quite a few professional bottom
cleaners are moonlighting SEALs (hardly what I'd call amateurs), and
they can get their tanks filled on base for free and with little extra
time spent. Two AL80s in a milk crate on a furniture dolly will easily
get you through a day of bottom cleaning.
Lee Bell - 16 Jun 2005 04:19 GMT
"mel h via ScubaMonster.com" wrote

> The bottom of the boat is metal and from what I have been told the
> barnacles
> are 1/2 inch to 1 inch thick.

I suggest you start by diving under the boat to see how bad the barnacles
are.  If they cover the entire bottom, I suggest you take the boat to a
professional who will take it out of the water, do the job right and charge
accordingly.  Boats with good bottom paint don't have a half inch of
barnacles.  At most, they only have a few.  If the bottom paint isn't
working, it needs to be replaced.  It gets worse.  There are special barrier
coats and bottom paints for metal boats.  The best of them are only
available to professional boat service companies.

Since the boat is metal, any penetration of the coating exposes that metal
to salt water and galvanic corrosion.  If the bottom paint is bad, this may
have already taken place.  Portions of the hull may already be weak enough
that your cleaning tool will take parts of the bottom off with the barnacles
you intended to remove.  I don't think you want that responsibility.

Finally, if the barnacles are as think as they say, you're taking on a very
labor intensive job.  There's a reason why most boaters haul their boats out
of the water for bottom work and a reason why boat yards charge a healthy
rate for working on them.

Having said all of that, if there's only a few barnacles, carefully scrape
them off with a putty knife and resist the temptation to accept a job like
this in the future.

Lee
mel  h - 17 Jun 2005 01:06 GMT
Well, we finshed the job. I was kind of tired because I put the ole bod in
positions I was not used to. The speedblade cut through the barnacles and
zebra mussels like a hot knife through butter. I also attached  a plan old
rubber dent puller for suction on the bottom of the hull to assist me in
staying streamline.
We used the Brownies third lung HOOKAH diving instead of tanks for less crap
to get in the way. The total time was about 1 hr 10 minutes. My friend Tom
said that speedblade is the best invention ever made for barnacle removal.
Compared to the old ways with a paint scraper wich would have taken about 5
hrs to clean the boat. The only thing that was hard was visibility due to the
ICW being dark water.
>"mel h via ScubaMonster.com" wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>Lee
Benedict Addis - 17 Jun 2005 20:36 GMT
Am I being ultra-cynical in thinking that this post was a neat piece of
product placement for the Speedblade product?

Benedict.

> Well, we finshed the job. I was kind of tired because I put the ole bod in
> positions I was not used to. The speedblade cut through the barnacles and
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>>
>>Lee
Scott - 17 Jun 2005 21:05 GMT
> Am I being ultra-cynical in thinking that this post was a neat piece of
> product placement for the Speedblade product?

I'll have the Spam and eggs with Spam and a side of spam...
Greg Mossman - 17 Jun 2005 23:22 GMT
> Am I being ultra-cynical in thinking that this post was a neat piece of
> product placement for the Speedblade product?
>
> Benedict.

Don't forget the Brownie's plug, which is related to Halcyon, which is
related to DIR(TM), which is related to GUE.  Does GUE have any connections
with Speedblade?  Maybe they're gonna start a Hull Cleaning Fundamentals
class.  Note that the spammer states "to assist me in staying streamline
[sic]."  Obviously only Halcyon(TM) wings are appropriate for hull cleaning
where streamlining is so important.  They're coming out with their new
"rubber dent puller", using viton for O2 compatibility, to be available for
only $199.95 at Brownie's Third Lung.

BTW, in case anyone cares, the trademark application for DIR is dead in the
water.  It has officially been abandoned as of 12/3/04 after the trademark
examiner refused to submit it for publication.  Likewise, "Doing it Right"
was abandoned effective 12/30/04.

In the meantime, Dive Rite has applied for the mark "Dive Rite AreaDIR" for
"certified DIR Scuba diving equipment, DIR instructional materials and
training manuals, brochures, posters, decals, prerecorded cd's, tapes,
films, programs and presentation to the public".  The application was filed
12/13/04, just 10 days after the Halcyon attempt was abandoned.  It has yet
to be assigned to an examiner.

>> Well, we finshed the job. I was kind of tired because I put the ole bod
>> in
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> We used the Brownies third lung HOOKAH diving instead of tanks for less
>> crap
Lee Bell - 18 Jun 2005 03:40 GMT
> BTW, in case anyone cares, the trademark application for DIR is dead in
> the water.  It has officially been abandoned as of 12/3/04 after the
> trademark examiner refused to submit it for publication.  Likewise, "Doing
> it Right" was abandoned effective 12/30/04.

Care may be too strong a word, but I'm interested.

> In the meantime, Dive Rite has applied for the mark "Dive Rite AreaDIR"
> for "certified DIR Scuba diving equipment, DIR instructional materials and
> training manuals, brochures, posters, decals, prerecorded cd's, tapes,
> films, programs and presentation to the public".  The application was
> filed 12/13/04, just 10 days after the Halcyon attempt was abandoned.  It
> has yet to be assigned to an examiner.

Wouldn't that be poetic justice?

Lee
Lee Bell - 18 Jun 2005 03:40 GMT
> Am I being ultra-cynical in thinking that this post was a neat piece of
> product placement for the Speedblade product?

Interesting question.  Darned if I know.  If it was, it was well done.

Lee
Grumman-581 - 18 Jun 2005 06:56 GMT
> Am I being ultra-cynical in thinking that this post was a neat piece of
> product placement for the Speedblade product?

You're not the only one... I was thinking that is appeared to be one of the
more creative spam mechanism that I've seen around here... As far as I can
tell, it's vibrating putty knife... I can't see it doing much on a really
encrusted hull... For one of those, you would probably need one of the large
units that they use for removing flooring...
mel h - 22 Jun 2005 01:17 GMT
NO PRODUCT PLACEMENT HERE MR. I KNOW EVERYTHING!!

People like you really should get a life or something. You are probaly one of
these old guys that are cynical and judgemental of everything. I told you
about us having to clean barnacles and what we did, period. Thats it. If you
choose to start rumors and stir up the brew, thats your business pal.
Personally people like you that have a opinion and who are judgemental about
things don't fit in real society.  
>Am I being ultra-cynical in thinking that this post was a neat piece of
>product placement for the Speedblade product?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>>
>>>Lee
Rudy Benner - 22 Jun 2005 02:34 GMT
> NO PRODUCT PLACEMENT HERE MR. I KNOW EVERYTHING!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>>>>
>>>>Lee

Oooops, careful now, he is going to cry.
Greg Mossman - 22 Jun 2005 03:19 GMT
> Personally people like you that have a opinion and who are judgemental
> about
> things don't fit in real society.

"Personally"?  You mean that's your opinion?  Sounds pretty judgmental to
me.

But then people who willingly help friends scrape barnacles don't fit in
real society either.  In real society, the only time you help a friend is
when his refrigerator is overflowing with beer and he needs helping drinking
it.
keysclub@bellsouth.net - 19 Jun 2005 13:58 GMT
Mel said
>My friend Tom
>said that speedblade is the best invention ever made for barnacle removal.

Hmmm!
Amazing product is it?
The Wests in my town is attatched to a big boat yard so I should be
seeing them in heavy use throughout when I go there tomorrow. We'll see
what the pros say about it.
Matthias Voss - 16 Jun 2005 18:11 GMT
mel h via ScubaMonster.com wrote:

> Anyone out there ever took barnacles off by diving. I am going to clean a
> friend of mines dads boat because he is very sick and cannot perform this
> task. Does anyone know how long it takes? The boat is 45ft. thanks.

Took me 1.45 hours, a 12l bottle, a bit of hardwood board, for a 42ft
sailing boat.
Matthias
 
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