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Scuba Forum / General / May 2005Scuba Certification
OK! I've got it narrowed downto 2 locations to get my SCUBA certification. Anyone have any experience with either of these shops? I've been to both of them and talked to people there (staff/customers I ran into) and got a good "vibe" from both of them. Scuba 2000 in Richmond Hill Aquarius in Etobicoke. Thanks for any suggestions. > OK! I've got it narrowed downto 2 locations to get my SCUBA certification. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks for any suggestions. Not everyone will realize that Richmond Hill and Etobicoke are near Toronto Ontario. Canada, eh? I was thinking about posting some additional information regarding that after the fact, but you beat me to it. :) >> OK! I've got it narrowed downto 2 locations to get my SCUBA >> certification. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Not everyone will realize that Richmond Hill and Etobicoke are near > Toronto Ontario. Canada, eh? >> Scuba 2000 in Richmond Hill >> Aquarius in Etobicoke. >> >> Thanks for any suggestions. > Not everyone will realize that Richmond Hill and Etobicoke are near > Toronto Ontario. Canada, eh? Only a Canadian would name a place "Etobicoke". An American would insert an extra "k" so it doesn't insult our President. We dont care. Go with who you like. I am newly certified and live near Syracuse, NY, so don't know the shops you are asking about, but I am surprised that no one else has asked what agencies these shops certify through. When I looked at shops I found that one local place offered PADI and the other offered SSI (Scuba Schools International). Since then I have spoken with and dived with lots of people who have experience with both, SSI seems to be preferred. I know I have been extremely pleased with the way the SSI program is standardized everywhere, easy to learn, very repetitive, very conservative in their ratings (Advanced and Master Diver ratings take lots more dives and courses with SSI than with PADI). The books and videos are excellent and make it easy and fun to learn. Don't know if this helps or not, but it may be something to ask about at those shops. Good luck and good diving. > OK! I've got it narrowed downto 2 locations to get my SCUBA certification. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks for any suggestions. >I am newly certified and live near Syracuse, NY, so don't know the shops you >are asking about, but I am surprised that no one else has asked what [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >those shops. >Good luck and good diving. Tell us about the instructors. A crap instructor is still crap, regardless of the agency. And a good one still shines. If you haven't had the PADI courses, how can you compare them. PADI courses are VERY standardized, which some people claim to be bad. You will find that many people here will tell you to go with the good instructor and screw the agency. >> OK! I've got it narrowed downto 2 locations to get my SCUBA certification. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> Thanks for any suggestions.  Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. >I am newly certified and live near Syracuse, NY, so don't know the shops >you > are asking about, but I am surprised that no one else has asked what > agencies these shops certify through. We didn't ask because we don't care. All the agencies operating in the US teach approximately the same information and all of them have good and bad instructors. The quality of instruction is considerably more important than the letters he certifies with. > When I looked at shops I found that one local place offered PADI and the > other [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Don't know if > this helps or not, but it may be something to ask about at those shops. In fact, SSI courses are, in my experience, less likely to be standardized than PADI courses. That's one of the attractions to SSI. Another is that, by learning with SSI, you don't have to listen to the sell PADI message in every class. Instead, you get the sell SSI message every other class. <grin> PADI's biggest problem is not at the classroom level, it's a corporate issue. They are believed by many, including me, to be more interested in collecting dollars than in the quality of their training. They have been reported to, for example, say things like "anybody can dive" and "diving is safe." Neither is true. Lee SSI Master Diver One thing I will say about the SCUBA community is that it seems no matter what a person's opinion is, he/she is more likely to be flamed for expressing it than in any newsgroup I participate in. I was simply offering my personal experience with SSI. The shop I go to, National Aquatic Service in Syracuse, seems to have excellent instructors, every one I have been with (5 different ones now, between the basic SSI course, open water dives, and two specialty courses) have been just great. All of them have 500+ logged dives, and two I've had have 800+ dives. And three of them I know for sure are both PADI and SSI certified instructors, which is where I got my "comparison" information between PADI and SSI. No question at all about the fact that both are out to get you to take more classes and spend more money--hey, it's a friggin business for them, guys. But if they make me feel good and make me a better, safer, diver, then who the hell cares? This all said, I think this will be my last post on this newsgroup. What bunch of prima donnas out looking to spew the testosterone you guys are. Every time I've asked for advice I get condescending crap, and if I try to offer just a little, non-controversial advise to another newbie, I get sh.t on too. I'll pick my dive buddies in person, thank you. > >I am newly certified and live near Syracuse, NY, so don't know the shops > >you [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Lee > SSI Master Diver First, this is not the Scuba community. It's rec.scuba. Second, there are no flames at all in the message you quoted, not one. You want flames, wait a second and you'll find some. Third, nobody cares if you post here or not. It's up to you. Understand, though, that a substantial number of the people posting here, have more dives than the two instructors you mention combined. Finally, you're a hell of a hypocrite for criticizing others for flames and then taking the time to call people names in your last post to rec.scuba. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Lee > One thing I will say about the SCUBA community is that it seems no matter > what a person's opinion is, he/she is more likely to be flamed for [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] >> Lee >> SSI Master Diver Thanks for your kind words, Lee. I rest my case. > First, this is not the Scuba community. It's rec.scuba. Second, there are > no flames at all in the message you quoted, not one. You want flames, wait [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > >> Lee > >> SSI Master Diver > Thanks for your kind words, Lee. I rest my case. You obviously lose most of them. Go here - www.scubaboard.com It's much more your kind of place. If nothing else it has training wheels to keep you from top posting. Be sure to look up netdoc and tell him how mean everyone was to you on rec.scuba. You'll be his friend for life. > Thanks for your kind words, Lee. I rest my case. You have no case and now, you've added untruthful to your list of accomplishments. I thought you weren't posting here any more. Here's a clue for you. You threw the first stone and, as the saying goes, people in glass houses, shouldn't. You have no right to complain about getting back what you so readily gave to others. Lee > Thanks for your kind words, Lee. I rest my case. Thought you were leaving. so is this your last post? Anyway, what Lee said was accurate - the instructor is far more important than the agency. You thought that was a flame? Pointing out that many believe that PADI s more interested in dollars than quality training - is a flame? Pointing out that "diving is safe" and "anybody can dive" are not true, is a flame? A flame is something like: "What a bunch of prima donnas out looking to spew the testosterone". Dennis > > First, this is not the Scuba community. It's rec.scuba. Second, there > are [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > >> Lee > > >> SSI Master Diver >One thing I will say about the SCUBA community is that it seems no matter >what a person's opinion is, he/she is more likely to be flamed for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >are both PADI and SSI certified instructors, which is where I got my >"comparison" information between PADI and SSI. A) grow a thick skin if you're going to hit Usenet. B) what posts? I just googled you and had zero (0) hits on rec.scuba. C) everybody gets flamed here at some point. See A above. Some of the people here have over 1000 dives. I personally have been diving for 20 years and teaching for the last 10. I'm glad you found a shop with good instructors. But it's still the case that that it's all about the instructor. As far as structured is concerned, did they read straight from the manual? Did they follow (exactly) flash cards for both pool and open water dives? How did they review the tests? PADI isn't just structured, it's regimented. >No question at all about the fact that both are out to get you to take more >classes and spend more money--hey, it's a friggin business for them, guys. >But if they make me feel good and make me a better, safer, diver, then who >the hell cares? Once again, it's all about the instructor. There are instructors out there that I wouldn't want ot be in the same ocean with. >This all said, I think this will be my last post on this newsgroup. What >bunch of prima donnas out looking to spew the testosterone you guys are. >Every time I've asked for advice I get condescending crap, and if I try to >offer just a little, non-controversial advise to another newbie, I get sh.t >on too. Actually, stating that one agency is better than another IS a controversial topic. Perhaps if you had read the archives a little, you'd have known that. >I'll pick my dive buddies in person, thank you. There are plenty of people here that I'd love to dive with. And I don't give a f.ck about where they were certified. >> >I am newly certified and live near Syracuse, NY, so don't know the shops >> >you [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> Lee >> SSI Master Diver Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. > There are plenty of people here that I'd love to dive with. And I > don't give a f.ck about where they were certified. 2:00 PM, Friday, June 10, Splashdown Divers, Boynton Beach, Florida. Lee >> There are plenty of people here that I'd love to dive with. And I >> don't give a f.ck about where they were certified. > >2:00 PM, Friday, June 10, Splashdown Divers, Boynton Beach, Florida. > >Lee That sounds great. It's the getting there that kind of sucks. But next time I'm in Fla, I will let you know. Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. > That sounds great. It's the getting there that kind of sucks. But > next time I'm in Fla, I will let you know. Airplanes make the trip every day, probably more than once a day. It's a shame you can't make it. There will be more than one rec.scuban there. Lee >>I am newly certified and live near Syracuse, NY, so don't know the shops >>you [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >reported to, for example, say things like "anybody can dive" and "diving is >safe." Neither is true. What bothers me is that the corporate culture is aimed at the store level. Once you've made OWSI, you get very little real support. Most of the "training" is aimed at the retailer. Ocean Journal has at least two articles a quarter on improving retail sales and the newsletter is always about retail or resort sales. >Lee >SSI Master Diver Dillon, PADI OWSI Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Thanks for the post. The courses I have found are both PADI. I did not have any clue about SSI, but had been directed to NAUI by one associate of mine. I tend to think more along the lines of some of hte following posts in regards quality of instruction versus content. The reason the original post was made is because I don't really get any reference of the quality of the instruction * BEFORE * taking the course. :) >I am newly certified and live near Syracuse, NY, so don't know the shops >you [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> >> Thanks for any suggestions. > The reason the original post was made is because I don't really get any > reference of the quality of the instruction * BEFORE * taking the course. > :) Perhaps the question you should have asked is how to get an idea of the quality of instruction before you take a class. Here are a few suggestions: 1. Talk to the instructor. He or she should be enthusiastic about diving and happy to spend time talking with you. If you get the impression that the instructor can't be bothered, go someplace else. 2. Talk to former students to see how they liked the class and the instructor. 3. One of my favorite questions is "how much of the course is on video and how much is live instruction." This isn't really a fair question since, for the most part, the agency specifies how the course will be presented. Some agencies make more use of video than others. Still, it's interesting to see how the instructor handles the question. Lee
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