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Scuba Forum / General / May 2005Come again????
Sting Ray City: While perhaps the most dangerous patch of underwater real estate anywhere in the world, Sting Ray City is widely promoted the Grand Cayman Tourist Bureau, though the resident critters often harm the tourists. On April 1, reports the Wisconsin State Journal, eleven-year-old Justin Weber was scuba diving with his parents, when a six-foot green moray chomped down on his forearm, severing several arteries and pouring blood into the water. The eel held on tight until Justin's dad pried its jaws apart (Justin later said "It was more pain than I've ever had. I was just scared"). The moray may have been attracted to the diabetes medical bracelet Justin wore, thinking it was another bit of chum tossed into the water. Justin underwent six hours of surgery on Grand Cayman, where doctors used a vein from his leg to help restore blood flow to his hand. The Webers arranged for a chartered medical jet, which cost $21,400, to fly Justin to Madison, Wisconsin, for further surgery. His family is hopeful he'll regain full use of his hand. His mother Laura said the family will resume diving, but not where fish are fed. "We believe this changes the way the animals react to human beings," she said. Experts would agree, though tourist bureaus don't seem to care. The eel was "relocated." Let's see now, wasn't wearing something shiny one of the first things you were taught to avoid in your basic scuba course? Sting Ray City "dangerous real estate?" Someone is really digging for a story here ... Buck > Sting Ray City: While perhaps the most dangerous patch of underwater real > estate anywhere in the world, Sting Ray City is widely promoted the Grand [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > were taught to avoid in your basic scuba course? Sting Ray City "dangerous > real estate?" Someone is really digging for a story here ... Not to worry, the lawyers are lining up to take the case. >Sting Ray City: While perhaps the most dangerous patch of underwater real >estate anywhere in the world, Sting Ray City is widely promoted the Grand [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Buck Having only seen pictures, I can't think of an area around SRC that has any formations that might be home to a moray. Seems they've chosed to identify GC by SRC only. And how do we know he wasn't doing something to get bit, like sticking a macro framer in it's face? (I'll put up some pictures that an idiot I know took doing that in Cozumel last year. I've known him all my life)  Signaturedillon Women should be obscene and not absurd. > Having only seen pictures, I can't think of an area around SRC that > has any formations that might be home to a moray. Seems they've > chosed to identify GC by SRC only. Having been there, I can tell you that there is (was?) a large green moray resident in one of the formations at Sting Ray City. I had heard he is (was?) a bit feisty. I can send you pics if you like. He's very photogenic, though I didn't get any macros. > And how do we know he wasn't doing something to get bit, like sticking > a macro framer in it's face? (I'll put up some pictures that an idiot > I know took doing that in Cozumel last year. I've known him all my > life) Yeah, or teasing it with his finger like I do with all eels I see. Completely moronic. >> Having only seen pictures, I can't think of an area around SRC that >> has any formations that might be home to a moray. Seems they've [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Yeah, or teasing it with his finger like I do with all eels I see. >Completely moronic. When people question me about that practice, I always say "well I haven't been bitten". To which Carol has taken to adding "yet". My money is on next spring. I'm going to want to get up close and personal with some real monster and see him swallow the whole camera and most of a hand. Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. > Having been there, I can tell you that there is (was?) a large green moray > resident in one of the formations at Sting Ray City. I had heard he is > (was?) a bit feisty. There's been known problems with a moray there for awhile. IIRC, awhile back, they also had gotten concerned about some hammerheads that had been lurking around, so they decided to try to fish them out. Instead of catching the hammerheads, they reportedly caught two Tigers! -hh Thus spake H Huntzinger <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005@huntzinger.com> : >> Having been there, I can tell you that there is (was?) a large green moray >> resident in one of the formations at Sting Ray City. I had heard he is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >-hh You know what they say about hunting for tigers. Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. > You know what they say about hunting for tigers. Never leave the f.cking boat. > > You know what they say about hunting for tigers. > > Never leave the f.cking boat. 1/3rd of a ton, smart, with claws and teeth, that does 30mph, can be imtimidating. >> Never leave the f.cking boat. > > 1/3rd of a ton, smart, with claws and teeth, > that does 30mph, can be imtimidating. My truck outweighs it and outruns it. Roadkill pussy. > 1/3rd of a ton, smart, with claws and teeth, > that does 30mph, can be imtimidating. They were one of the primary motivators for the design and construction of these: http://www.hollandandholland.com/gunrooms/guns/royaldblrifle.htm (check the prices) http://www.hollandandholland.com/gunrooms/london/newguns/royal-double-rifle. htm And these: http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=1&prod_co de=DXM257WR6O http://www.weatherby.com/products/ammo.asp?prd_id=13 > > 1/3rd of a ton, smart, with claws and teeth, > > that does 30mph, can be imtimidating. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And these: there was a gun store in wilton CT that specialized in hand made guns like that. one was engraved "for the maharaja of...". it came in a hand made box with gun, cleaning kit, and several hand loaded shells. I think it was a .600 nitro express. one collector came in and walked out after buying about $15,000 worth of guns and that was 1980 prices. > http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=1&prod_co > de=DXM257WR6O > > http://www.weatherby.com/products/ammo.asp?prd_id=13 > there was a gun store in wilton CT that specialized in hand made guns > like that. one was engraved "for the maharaja of...". it came in a hand [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > one collector came in and walked out after buying > about $15,000 worth of guns and that was 1980 prices. Beats using midgets: http://www.newturfers.com/mwf/attach/38/355838/BBCNEWSWorldLionMutilates42Mi dgetsinCambodianRing-Fight.htm >> > 1/3rd of a ton, smart, with claws and teeth, >> > that does 30mph, can be imtimidating. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >made box with gun, cleaning kit, and several hand loaded shells. I think >it was a .600 nitro express. Yeah, baby. That's some heavy duty artillery. Don't know why it's a double gun, I wouldn't be standing after the first trigger pull. >one collector came in and walked out after buying >about $15,000 worth of guns and that was 1980 prices. He only bought one? >> http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=1&prod_co >> de=DXM257WR6O >> >> http://www.weatherby.com/products/ammo.asp?prd_id=13 Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. > Yeah, baby. That's some heavy duty artillery. Don't know why it's a > double gun, I wouldn't be standing after the first trigger pull. Actually, the way the stocks are made, and the geometry and ergonomics involved, makes these extra fine rifles seem very manageable. The bores are very low compared to most bolt rifles, so you dont get as much climb and slap. I shot a .375 H&H in a Remington 700 that kicked the sh.t out of me, but the same cartridge out of the Holland and Holland double was very mild, about like a factory 2 3/4" mag buckshot. The double is designed for a fast second shot on potentially deadly game, which you may not have time for with a bolt gun, and chances are if you miss with both from the double, you wont need a third anyway, because you are going to be tiger sh.t. > >one collector came in and walked out after buying > >about $15,000 worth of guns and that was 1980 prices. > > He only bought one? Top of the line, with all accessories runs in the neighborhood of $200 to $300k >>Yeah, baby. That's some heavy duty artillery. Don't know why it's a >>double gun, I wouldn't be standing after the first trigger pull. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > very low compared to most bolt rifles, so you dont get as much climb and > slap. Not to mention the extra mass of the second barrel. > I shot a .375 H&H in a Remington 700 that kicked the sh.t out of me, but the > same cartridge out of the Holland and Holland double was very mild, about [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Top of the line, with all accessories runs in the neighborhood of $200 to > $300k SignatureMy diesel truck has been modified to run on an environmentally friendly mixture of clean burning Caribou fat and whale oil. I strongly urge everyone reading this to check out WWW.anysoldier.com, and support our troops with a letter, a package or a donation. There are some coral heads in the area. Last time I was there (and only time I did stingray city) there were at least two morays, one of which swam out and took a nip at a girl trying to handfeed him. The whole area was a bit sureal after growing up in Florida trying to keep a bit of distance from stingrays. You don't hear about it much but tourists also get the occassional stingray spine also. I'd prefer the moray bite. > You don't hear about it much but tourists also get > the occassional stingray spine also. I'd prefer the moray bite. Thanks, but I'd personally prefer the relatively clean puncture wound, since the risk of infection probably isn't much higher. FWIW, the most common animal injury from Stingray City on Grand Cayman is the stingray "hickie". Yeah, it sounds funny, but some actually have been bad enough to draw blood and require hospitalization. When the weather's been bad and cancelled trips mean that the rays haven't gotten their free handout for a few days, they tend to get overly aggressive. A few years ago, I was diving with a couple who had just come over to the Brac having done such a dive on Grand Cayman. They said that ~80% of the divers on their boat had gotten injured to some degree. Most were minor, but "a couple" (IIRC 3 or 4?) were seriously enough such that they were taken to the hospital. Personally, I'd make it a point to avoid being the first diveboat back out to feed the rays after a multi-day storm. -hh > > You don't hear about it much but tourists also get > > the occassional stingray spine also. I'd prefer the moray bite. > > Thanks, but I'd personally prefer the relatively clean puncture wound, > since the risk of infection probably isn't much higher. I'll take the moray bite just so long as he's not wrapped around something. Stingray spines look like a serrated arrowhead and cause what I consider a bit more than a "relatively clean puncture wound". The couple of people I know that got hit with a spine, had to have it removed surgically. Added to that, I seem to remember them having a venemous "sack" covering the spine that ruptures when the spine is inserted. My ex boss kept the four inch spine he had removed, on his desk. Said it was the worst pain he ever felt. > > > You don't hear about it much but tourists also get > > > the occassional stingray spine also. I'd prefer the moray bite. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > inserted. My ex boss kept the four inch spine he had removed, on his > desk. Said it was the worst pain he ever felt. OTOH, a friend of mine very nearly lost his whole arm after a moray chased and attacked him. His arm was saved but he's got some really nasty scarring. > > > > You don't hear about it much but tourists also get > > > > the occassional stingray spine also. I'd prefer the moray bite. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I'll take the moray bite just so long as he's not wrapped around > > something... Problem is that we can't exactly control our accidents thus. > > Stingray spines look like a serrated arrowhead and cause > > what I consider a bit more than a "relatively clean puncture wound". True, but its going to be a relative rarity when a moray's set of inwards-pointing teeth aren't going to disrupt more cc's of flesh from lacerations. What this all comes down to is simple risk management of which one is can be worse. > > The couple of people I know that got hit with a spine, had to have it > > removed surgically. Added to that, I seem to remember them having a > > venemous "sack" covering the spine that ruptures when the spine is > > inserted. Most spiny things in the ocean have complications. Sea Urchin spines are a common one, and IIRC there's a "venom" of sorts... > OTOH, a friend of mine very nearly lost his whole arm after a moray chased > and attacked him. > > His arm was saved but he's got some really nasty scarring. It seems that people either get off really lightly or really bad ... there doesn't seem to be much middle ground with a moray. A "light" stingray zap is probably going to be worse than a "light" moray nibble, but they're both easily survivable (even if painful). As the intensity goes up, the moray's wound characteristics are going to end up being the worse of the two because its not just a single discrete puncture. Overall, I'd say that the moray has the greater potential of opening up a major wound and if an artery/vein is hit, then there's a significantly increased risk from bleeding out. -hh >>>Stingray spines look like a serrated arrowhead and cause >>>what I consider a bit more than a "relatively clean puncture wound". Not necessarily. Mind the sheer power of the impact. It may slit a thigh as a mattewr of nothing. >>>The couple of people I know that got hit with a spine, had to have it >>>removed surgically. Added to that, I seem to remember them having a >>>venemous "sack" covering the spine that ruptures when the spine is >>>inserted. There are 2 species of urchins with venomous spines, geographically centered around the Indic/Red Sea, afaik. > Most spiny things in the ocean have complications. Sea Urchin spines > are a common one, and IIRC there's a "venom" of sorts... See above, else use citric acid to dissolve the spines, and time. but they're both easily survivable (even if painful). As the intensity > goes up, the moray's wound characteristics are going to end up being the > worse of the two because its not just a single discrete puncture. Yes, at the infectious side. No, from the mechanical impact. A ray´s tail is all muscles, prolongating it's spine, hitting like a whiplash. > Overall, I'd say that the moray has the greater potential of opening up > a major wound and if an artery/vein is hit, then there's a significantly > increased risk from bleeding out. There was reported a stingray's hit in Spain which sliced the thigh of the victim really deep... deeper than any moray teeth would go. Matthias > > > > You don't hear about it much but tourists also get > > > > the occassional stingray spine also. I'd prefer the moray bite. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > His arm was saved but he's got some really nasty scarring. There's a fish on the reef, with a big shiny teeth, that's a moray. Stick your hand in a crack, and you won't get it back, from a moray. from "That's a moray" - Scuba Do - Barefoot man. Dennis > OTOH, a friend of mine very nearly lost his whole arm after a moray chased > and attacked him. > > His arm was saved but he's got some really nasty scarring. And I hired you as my bodyguard to save my arm? What could you possibly have done to protect me against Curtis if you can't even ward off a little eel? > > OTOH, a friend of mine very nearly lost his whole arm after a moray chased > > and attacked him. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have done to protect me against Curtis if you can't even ward off a little > eel? I wasn't there when the moray went after Alex. Yes, wearing something shiny was one of the first things I was told. Then I was given a weight belt with a shiny buckle at my belly, a regulator with chrome parts at my mouth and the back of my head, a valve also chrome at the back of my neck and a chrome ring around the front that held the lens in. Didn't bet bit once . . . by anything. The rule about shiny items and diving is primarily related to diving in low visibility conditions, where the flash from a shiny part may, note may, be misinterpreted by a predatory fish as food. Morays have notoriously bad eyesight. They are much more likely to hunt by smell than by sight. They can surely tell that a diver is too big for a meal, but loose their fear when fed. If we could ask the moray what he was thinking, I'm sure he was thinking food and, when he approached the kid, smelled what he expected, food. At Stingray City, tourists are given food to attract the rays. It should not be a major surprise that it attracts other hand fed animals the same way. As for being the most dangerous real estate, that was no doubt written by the same person that believes manatees are slow, that spearfisherman do more damage to fish stocks than commercial fishermen and that divers are the primary danger to the world's coral reefs. Lee > Yes, wearing something shiny was one of the first things I was told. > Then I was given a weight belt with a shiny buckle at my belly, a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > low visibility conditions, where the flash from a shiny part may, note > may, be misinterpreted by a predatory fish as food. I guess all of those salmon I caught last year didn't read the chapter on "Do not bite at shiny, spinning items." ;-) Buck >> Yes, wearing something shiny was one of the first things I was told. >> Then I was given a weight belt with a shiny buckle at my belly, a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I guess all of those salmon I caught last year didn't read the chapter on > "Do not bite at shiny, spinning items." ;-) How many bit something shiny attached to you? Nobody said fish don't bite on shiny things. >>> Yes, wearing something shiny was one of the first things I was told. >>> Then I was given a weight belt with a shiny buckle at my belly, a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > How many bit something shiny attached to you? Nobody said fish don't bite > on shiny things. Did I ever tell you the story about being chased by a 30 foot eel bent on eating my regulator? It happened right after I had polished off a bottle of ... ;-) Never had anything come at me underwater except a large, amorous grouper. I thought I was going to be his bitch for a while. Barracuda are supposed to strike, but I've swam with a host of them with nary a problem either, as I'm sure most of us have. > Did I ever tell you the story about being chased by a 30 foot eel bent on > eating my regulator? It happened right after I had polished off a bottle of > ... ;-) A friend of mine from Belize was chomped down by an eel. He damn near lost his arm . . well, and could have lost his life I guess, if they hadn't treated him properly on the boat before getting him into the hospital. It's quite a distance from Ambergris Caye to the Belize City hospital. He's quite scarred. > Never had anything come at me underwater except a large, amorous grouper. I > thought I was going to be his bitch for a while. Barracuda are supposed to > strike, but I've swam with a host of them with nary a problem either, as I'm > sure most of us have. I had a little barracuda chomp down on my fin once. Don't know why and everyone had a good laugh . . .I only laughed because it wasn't a bigger barracuda. > "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > strike, but I've swam with a host of them with nary a problem either, as I'm > sure most of us have. Only things that have ever attacked me are damselfish. I've been close enough to some big reef sharks and barracuda to reach out and touch them (I didn't but I could have), and never even saw them twitch. Damselfish, on the other hand, are vicious bastards. And they usually attack my arms and legs, which are clad in black and not at all shiny, though sometimes they'll crash my mask, either going for my eyes or their own reflection in the glass. As they say, if damselfish got as big as sharks, there'd be no such thing as scuba diving... g >> "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >g Sargent majors. Don't forget them. Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. >>As they say, if damselfish got as big as sharks, there'd be no such >>thing as scuba diving... > Sargent majors. Don't forget them. Sergeant Majors are damselfish. They are, I believe, the largest variety, but they are damselfish, which is no doubt how they come by their nasty disposition. We have a few in the coral reef exhibit at the Baltimore aquarium where I work, and they are just as vicious there. I am always flooding my mask from laughing at their determined charges. But they're smart. They wait till I'm almost past them and then they go after my legs... gc >>>As they say, if damselfish got as big as sharks, there'd be no such >>>thing as scuba diving... > >> Sargent majors. Don't forget them. > >Sergeant Majors are damselfish. Okay, Carol's the marine biologist. I say "did you see that big f.cking purple and yellow fish?" She then gives me the scientific name and common name. I say "yeah" with a glazed over look. Ask me about wine. >They are, I believe, the largest variety, but they are damselfish, which > is no doubt how they come by their nasty disposition. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >gc Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. >>>>As they say, if damselfish got as big as sharks, there'd be no such >>>>thing as scuba diving... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ask me about wine. Give me a good jewish wine... SignatureMy diesel truck has been modified to run on an environmentally friendly mixture of clean burning Caribou fat and whale oil. Looking for a good fight is not the same as finding one worth having... >>>> Yes, wearing something shiny was one of the first things I was told. >>>> Then I was given a weight belt with a shiny buckle at my belly, a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >strike, but I've swam with a host of them with nary a problem either, as I'm >sure most of us have. Had my finger chewed on by a bunch of chub. Of course, the fact that it was holding down the nozzle of a can of Cheeze Whiz might have had something to do with it. Those were the days. Cheeze Whiz and Vienna Sausages. Signaturedillon Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. |
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