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Scuba Forum / General / May 2005

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Nitrogen Narcosis revisited

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recscuba@ellipse.us - 01 May 2005 23:12 GMT
Hi all,

I've read some of the posts from a few years ago regarding nitrogen
narcosis.  I've recently been doing a little research on the subject.
I'm writing to address two topics:

First, I'm wondering if any of you would be willing to share with me
any in-depth technical references you may have regarding the phisiology
and pathology of nitrogen narcosis?  Anything that details the
discussion of the biology and chemistry behind it is helpful.

Second, I'm presenting a hypothesis.  I've been contemplating the
aspect of nitrogen narcosis, and looking at the different factors that
weigh into what causes it.  It is my hypothesis that the problem is
entirely due to chemistry.

My argument:

First, Dalton's Law is important, but perhaps the importance of it in
this scenario is overstated.  Factors such as Charles Law and Boyles
Law also come into effect in an underwater environment where gas volume
and temperature both decrease while pressure increases.

Second, we must look at the fact that the average sample of air
contains both nitrogen and oxygen.  Both elements are highly
electronegative, and both are in the [He]2s:1p energy level, N having 5
valence electrons, and O having 6 valence electrons, respectively.

Third, we must look at the fact that between non-polar molecules,
London Forces (or Dispersion Forces, if you prefer) create
circumstances where non-polar molecules can experience momentary
dipoles, which allow them to react to create new covalently-bonded
molecules.

When we consider these factors in combination; pressure, temperature,
volume, valence electrons, London forces; I don't find it improbable
that the result could be as follows:

2N2 + O2 --> N2O

This compound, of course, is Nitrous Oxide, known for its narcotic and
psychedelic effects.

Looking at the Dalton diagram of such a reaction, we would have:

 2       2
2 N = O = N 2

with 2 representing electron pairs, and the equals representing shared
electron pairs.  The result is a double-bonded molecule, with all
elements containing full Quantum Energy levels.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
ellipse in Phoenix
Nobody - 02 May 2005 00:49 GMT
Gee, great minds must think alike. You are a little late, though. To wit:

Title:        Narcotic Effects Produced by Nitrous Oxide and hyperbaric
Nitrogen Narcosis in Rats Performing a Fixed-Ratio Test

Authors:     Turle–Lorenzo, Nathaliea; Zouani, Boualema; Risso, Jean-Jacquesa

Affiliations:     a. Department of Neurochemistry, I.M.N.S.S.A., HIA St.
Anne, Department of Neurochemistry, BP 610 F 83800, Toulon Naval, France

Keywords:     Narcosis; Behaviour; Rats; Nitrous oxide; Hyperbaric nitrogen

Bart F.

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> Cheers,
> ellipse in Phoenix
recscuba@ellipse.us - 02 May 2005 07:41 GMT
Thanks for the reference, Bart.

Cheers,
ellipse in Phoenix
Dillon Pyron - 04 May 2005 03:52 GMT
>Gee, great minds must think alike. You are a little late, though. To wit:
>
>Title:        Narcotic Effects Produced by Nitrous Oxide and hyperbaric
>Nitrogen Narcosis in Rats Performing a Fixed-Ratio Test

Well, that certainly has direct correlation to most of us.

>Authors:     Turle–Lorenzo, Nathaliea; Zouani, Boualema; Risso, Jean-Jacquesa
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Bart F.

I know that in blue water, I get narked at around 110 ft.  In Lake
Travis, it's around 80.  Must be the pitch black.

>> Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>> Cheers,
>> ellipse in Phoenix

Signature

dillon

Women should be obscene and not absurd.

Richard J Kinch - 02 May 2005 04:52 GMT
> It is my hypothesis that the problem is entirely due to chemistry.

As opposed to what?  Bad humours?
Jammer Six - 02 May 2005 05:29 GMT
> As opposed to what?  Bad humours?

Well, that explains it.

I thought it was caused by the moon. Does this mean that I CAN dive
under a full moon?

And why is spring so f.cking early this year?

Signature

"We're going to rush the hijackers."
    -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

James Connell - 02 May 2005 18:25 GMT
> I thought it was caused by the moon. Does this mean that I CAN dive
> under a full moon?

from what I've heard jammer - you can't dive under any moon,
Dennis \(Icarus\) - 03 May 2005 18:25 GMT
> > I thought it was caused by the moon. Does this mean that I CAN dive
> > under a full moon?
>
> from what I've heard jammer - you can't dive under any moon,

James,
   You've got to stop listening to those voices. The meds no longer
working?

Dennis
recscuba@ellipse.us - 02 May 2005 07:38 GMT
> As opposed to what?  Bad humours?

As opposed to the more subtle aspect of the effects of N2 at higher
partial pressure within a biological organism after gas permeation has
occurred.

Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear in this in my original statement.
Also, I'm aware that I didn't correctly balance the equation.  D'oh!

Cheers,
ellipse in Phoenix
Matthias Voss - 02 May 2005 09:21 GMT
I am inclined from personal experience to relate the most significant
and disturbing effects of narcosis to CO2 buildup from exertion or cold.
A covalent factor is high pps of O2, because the O2 in solution prevents
the CO2 to be "scrubbed" away with the bloodstream.

Matthias

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> Cheers,
> ellipse in Phoenix
Bryan Heit - 02 May 2005 14:53 GMT
Good review of the science behind gas narcosis and toxicity.  Written in
2002, so it's missing some of the new stuff, but good none-the-less.

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/95/3/883

Bryan
 
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