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Scuba Forum / General / April 2005Help with some more identifications
Hi, I'm trying to identify the big mass of white stuff in this picture: http://www.tequila-stuff.com/aruba/images/pedernales/IMG_2174.JPG And these fish: http://www.tequila-stuff.com/aruba/images/pedernales/IMG_2188.JPG Any help is appreciated. TIA, Jay > Hi, > > I'm trying to identify the big mass of white stuff in this picture: > > http://www.tequila-stuff.com/aruba/images/pedernales/IMG_2174.JPG I think that's a very nice colony of pained tunicates. (snip) .... colony of pained tunicates. They don't look all that uncomfortable to me. > .... colony of pained tunicates. > > They don't look all that uncomfortable to me. :^) > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.tequila-stuff.com/aruba/images/pedernales/IMG_2188.JPG Painted tunicates and smallmouth grunts. > Any help is appreciated. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1878348078/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1878348019/ Best help you can find. I don't mean Amazon. That's just the first link that came up.  SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > TIA, > Jay Time for you to invest in a few basic i.d. books. The Humann series would be a good start. > > Hi, > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Time for you to invest in a few basic i.d. books. The Humann > series would be a good start. I found it interesting that he's taken ssome very good pictures (of those he's shared with us), but claims he doesn't know his subject matter. I don't know that I've ever encountered that before. In any event, most of the dive shops I'm used to diving out of on Caribbean holidays, have all the Humann series and other books besides. Oft times after a day of diving, myself and others will be found looking through the books and educating ourselves on our sightings that day. > I found it interesting that he's taken ssome very good pictures (of those > he's shared with us), but claims he doesn't know his subject matter. I > don't know that I've ever encountered that before. If you know where to look you'll see that he's also taken some pictures that aren't so good. I'm guessing that he treated himself to an inexpensive UW setup and perhaps isn't that serious about the photography, at least not yet. I expect that the cheap cost of low end digital cameras and inexpensive housings is leading to increasing numbers of snorkelers and divers taking snapshots even though they have little aspirations to extend their photo skills or getting good equipment. That's not tosay that the inexpensive stuff can't produce some excellent shots, of course. Asking for ID's shows that he's interested in learning, so there's no excuse not to upgrade his book collection. One of the great things about taking pictures is that it will be a lot easier to ID fish after the dive since you won't have to rely on memory for some of the fine points. That alone should justify a $150 housing that fits a camera you already have. You can find the index to some of his other stuff here: http://www.tequila-stuff.com/aruba/images/pedernales/ SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >> I found it interesting that he's taken ssome very good pictures (of >> those he's shared with us), but claims he doesn't know his subject [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > You can find the index to some of his other stuff here: > http://www.tequila-stuff.com/aruba/images/pedernales/ It was a Canon A70 with a Canon u/w housing, I forget what I paid for it but I'm pretty sure it was less than $400 at the time . My Aruba trip was the first time I ever shot anything u/w and no, I'm not really looking to get into it too seriously, it's just a recent interest. Alot of the pictures and video I took suck but a few came out ok and after doing some reading I see alot of noob mistakes :) In any case I'm going to try taking some more pictures this summer (CT & RI) when I can spend more time and play with all the camera settings. I'll be going to the Bahamas in December too and will have more time to dive on that trip than Aruba so maybe I can improve my skills a bit. I plan on investing in some books, just haven't had the time to look into it yet. Thanks for all the help and I will check out the books mentioned in the other posts. Jay > I plan on investing in some books, just haven't had the time to look into it > yet. Thanks for all the help and I will check out the books mentioned in > the other posts. If you don't already know, one of the best improvements you can make is with an off-camera flash. Of the shots I looked at the two really obvious, and easy to fix problems are backscatter and being too far away. If you didn't already know, backscatter is caused by light from the flash reflecting off of stuff in the water, and the closer to the lens the flash is the worse the backscatter will be. By getting it off to the side you can light up less of the stuff between the lens and subject, and the angle of the light will reduce the intensity of the reflections. Of course buying a good UW strobe and then lugging it around represent a level of committment that may be more than you want to make. Getting closer, OTOH, is easier. It also reduces the amount of stuff between the lens and subject, so it also reduces backscatter. It also fills the frame, which is usually good. Of course for subjects that don't hold still getting close can be a real challenge. Luckily with digital you can take about as many pictures as you want, so taking shots from farther away and tossing them afterwards doesn't really cost anything, except if the flash scares your subject away. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > If you don't already know, one of the best improvements you can make > is with an off-camera flash. Of the shots I looked at the two really > obvious, and easy to fix problems are backscatter and being too far > away. If you didn't already know, backscatter is caused by light from > the flash reflecting off of stuff in the water, and the closer to the I was aware of this beforehand and forgot to turn off the flash on some of them. If I decide to invest more into this I may look into another flash. Any recommendations? > Getting closer, OTOH, is easier. It also reduces the amount of stuff > between the lens and subject, so it also reduces backscatter. It also [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > shots from farther away and tossing them afterwards doesn't really > cost anything, except if the flash scares your subject away. Yea, the better pictures are much closer. I was going to color correct them in photoshop but my license ran out and now I'll have to buy it or decide on some other paint program to do it. I found it tough to take pictures up close though, the damn fish won't stay still I got alot of pictures of fish a.ses ;-) The other thing I learned was don't take video when you are swimming, it looks like hell. My camera will only take 30 seconds of video at a time in the higher res mode which is irksome, I had a 1GB memory card but I'm guessing the camera or maybe the memory card just can't sustain the data rates required by video. Thanks, Jay > If I decide to invest more into this I may look into another flash. Any > recommendations? Sunpak makes an UW strobe that's only about $180, but it takes a long time to recycle. An Ikelite DS-50 will recycle almost instantly with NiMH rechargeables, but with an arm and the slave you'd need to trigger it from your camera it will cost a bit over $500. Both of those prices are from mailorder, such as B&H photo. > Yea, the better pictures are much closer. I was going to color correct them > in photoshop but my license ran out and now I'll have to buy it or decide > on some other paint program to do it. Photoshop Elements is fairly inexpensive and will do everything that most people need. The consensus is that without the red that you'll lose in all but the shallowest water you can't correct because you can't add what's not there. > I found it tough to take pictures up > close > though, the damn fish won't stay still I got alot of pictures of fish > a.ses ;-) Tell me about it. I spent a fair amount of time on the last trip waiting for the yellowhead jawfish to come back out of their holes, but they always had more patience (or fear) than I did. I also spent a lot of time stalking hamlets with limited success. Fortunately there are a lot of (mostly small) fish that tend to stay put. Blennies and gobies, in particular, tend to rely on camouflage and will often let you get quite close. If you're lucky enough to find a seahorse you've found the only fish in the ocean that swims slower than you do, but they mostly stay put, too. Then there are the tube worms. If you startle them they'll suck down into their tube, but other than that they *can't* go anywhere. Morays may draw back into their holes, but if you're brave (in which case being careful will be much better than being stupid) you can almost touch them with the housing. > The other thing I learned was don't take video when you are swimming, it > looks like > hell. My camera will only take 30 seconds of video at a time in the higher > res mode > which is irksome, I had a 1GB memory card but I'm guessing the camera or > maybe the memory card just can't sustain the data rates required by video. Did you try any while staying put? I meant to try that but never got to it. Of course without a good light it's going to be blue, but at least you have the option. A few cameras will take movies that are only limited by the card memory, but for most it's the cameras electronic performance. Mine (5.1 MP) takes about 15 seconds to write an 8MB file to the card, so that's about 500k/second. That's presumably slow enough that the movie catches up and fills the buffer after 60 seconds, which is my limit for the better movie res. Here's a link to the stuff from my last trip, which was the first with the new camera. There are a few that I think are very good, plenty that I'm happy with and a few that suck (well, very few of those are actually posted). More than anything else, what can be learned from looking at my results is what I like and what stands still to have its picture taken. Fortunately there's a lot of overlap. Since I'm just cutting and pasting from elsewhere I've left the links to two other albums, also, in case anyone's interested. Cocoview Diving http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=8se5klb.i649grr&x=0&y=-rufvc0 Cocoview Bats http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=8se5klb.fguw8e7&x=0&y=7imb3p Lewisburg caving http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=8se5klb.h08w9s3&x=0&y=nik6gt I fixed a problem, so now all 3 sets can be viewed without having to sign in, but you'll only see one album at a time. There's a "view photos" button that may not be obvious because it's below the picture. If you don't see it, scroll down. To see the other albums you'll need to click on the other links. If you register as a member all albums you've looked at previously will be accessible from your welcome page when you return to the Ofoto (now Kodakgallery) site, but they will occasionally sned you spam. That's why you all have an e-mail address with hotmail or yahoo, though, right? SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >> If I decide to invest more into this I may look into another flash. >> Any recommendations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > trigger it from your camera it will cost a bit over $500. Both of > those prices are from mailorder, such as B&H photo. Thanks, I'll take a loook at them. >> Yea, the better pictures are much closer. I was going to color >> correct them in photoshop but my license ran out and now I'll have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > lose in all but the shallowest water you can't correct because you > can't add what's not there. Well I did a little color correction before my trial ran out and found that it worked pretty well on anything that I used a flash on, suprisingly even on some of the pics taken from further away. Then I tried color correction on the video using virtual dub and realized that since there was no color info there so it wouldn't help. >> I found it tough to take pictures up >> close [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > much better than being stupid) you can almost touch them with the > housing. I saw the tail of a big green colored moray in the Pedernales wreckage and waitied around a bit to see if I could get a shot of his head but he was too shy :( >> The other thing I learned was don't take video when you are >> swimming, it looks like [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > presumably slow enough that the movie catches up and fills the buffer > after 60 seconds, which is my limit for the better movie res. I did stay put and do some panning around but it was still kind of shaky, it takes alot of effort to keep my small camera from bouncing around. Maybe some weight on it would help. I also bought a CDROM from the dive guide. I asked him what he was using but he never responded to my email. I think it was a Nikon and I think I saw a red filter on it. He shot the video at a lower resolution that I did so alot of mine actually looks better quality wise, especially on a DVD viewing it on my big-screen. He caught a small grouper biting my finger on video, everyone got a big laugh over that one. If anyone wants to see videos I can compress them down and post them on my site. > Here's a link to the stuff from my last trip, which was the first > with the new camera. There are a few that I think are very good, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > overlap. Since I'm just cutting and pasting from elsewhere I've left > the links to two other albums, also, in case anyone's interested. Nice, what kind of setup are you using? > Cocoview Diving > http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=8se5klb.i649grr&x=0&y=-rufvc0 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > but they will occasionally sned you spam. That's why you all have an > e-mail address with hotmail or yahoo, though, right? > I saw the tail of a big green colored moray in the Pedernales wreckage and > waitied around a bit to see if I could get a shot of his head but he was too > shy :( At least you tried. Whichever end of a Moray you can see, it's always worth looking for the rest of it. It's not at all unusual to find the other end sticking out elsewhere, and a couple of times I've found most of the eel showing along the edge of whatever they think they're hiding in. If you'd given the tail a little touch you might have seen the other end of him. > I think it was a Nikon and I think I saw a red filter on it. My friend has an Ikelite housing for his video camera and it came with a red filter. It helps if he's shallow and I guess it helps with stuff a bit further away if he's using the video light. As noted elsewhere, if there's no red light to work with nothing can really help. > He caught a small grouper biting my finger on video, everyone got a big > laugh > over that one. If anyone wants to see videos I can compress them down > and post them on my site. I'd be glad to see it. The only place I've found grouper that are tame/cooperative enough for that sort of thing is Little Cayman and Cayman Brac. I had one let me put the framer for a Nikonos with an extension tube right around his face. Other places I've found that the best I can hope for is that they'll stay put at a cleaning station while I get closer. > Nice, what kind of setup are you using? I've got a Nikon Coolpix 5400, an Ikelite housing and Ikelite DS-50 strobe with the manual controller. http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/mansensors.html The camera was a bit under $300 after a $200 rebate, which is what finally got me of the fence. I wasn't actually planning on buying yet but I figured that the price couldn't be beat. The housing is at the lower end of Ikelite's line, so cost "only" $520. That only seems like a lot for a block of plastic until you actually see the housing. The camera isn't all that cheap when you add $520 for a housing that will probably never fit another camera model, but since the cameras I was really interested in cost about as much as the 5400 with the housing I figured it would be a good starter setup. The strobe will migrate to anything I might decide to get in the future. The lens has a 35mm equivalent range of 28 to 112 mm. Not nearly as wide as I'd like (I've got little interest in the telephoto end, even out of the water), but about as wide as digitals get. At the wide end the macro focus goes down to about 1/2 inch, and a lot of the photos I posted were taken at a distance of 3 to 6 inches. The macro focus distance increases as you zoom in more than the least bit, but it will still focus at a couple of inches when zoomed to perhaps 50mm. It's a high quality lens and I'm impressed with how much detail it can capture. The autofocus doesn't do well with low light levels, but I think most of the out of focus shots from the dive trip are more a function of my aiming. Like the zoom indicator, Nikon used an bar graph icon for the manual focus. Some of their other models apparently display a real distance, so why they didn't do that on the 5400 is anybody's guess. I need to get around to doing some experimenting to see what distances correspond to the manual focus settings. For stuff that isn't moving (or at least isn't changing distance from the lens) I'll mostly stick to manual in the future. The camera was just under 3 weeks old when we went on the trip so I barely had time to go through the manual and learn about the features, never mind work on the fine points. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > > I saw the tail of a big green colored moray in the Pedernales wreckage and > > waitied around a bit to see if I could get a shot of his head but he was too [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > whatever they think they're hiding in. If you'd given the tail a little touch you > might have seen the other end of him. I couldn't squeeze into the hole and reach it, the hole was a little too small. > > He caught a small grouper biting my finger on video, everyone got a big > > laugh [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I've found that the best I can hope for is that they'll stay put at a cleaning > station while I get closer. http://www.tapitup.com/fishbite-short.wmv is the bite scene. It happened quick but seemed like he had me forever at the time. I compressed it so it's a little blocky. Well, it looked like a grouper but I've since bought the Reef Fish book and I don't see little blue dots on any of the groupers. I think I have a good closeup of one on another memory card, I'm going to add it to my page later. > > Nice, what kind of setup are you using? > I've got a Nikon Coolpix 5400, an Ikelite housing and Ikelite DS-50 strobe with the > manual controller. http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/mansensors.html [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > good starter setup. The strobe will migrate to anything I might decide to get in the > future. Ah, that looks like a nice camera, 5 megapixels, mine is only 3.2. Your housing was a bit more expensive than mine, I think it was only $160. I read some things about the Canon that say the o-rings for the buttons aren't replaceable but I figure I probably won't have it that long anyways. I have an older Canon A20 in a housing too. The lens had gotten jammed which is what made me go out and buy the A75 to begin with. I ended up disassembling the thing and cleaning some sand out of the lens and got it all back together and working so I let my daughter use it when she snorkels. It's only 2.1 megapixels but still a decent camera. How quickly they get obsolete though. > The lens has a 35mm equivalent range of 28 to 112 mm. Not nearly as wide as I'd like > (I've got little interest in the telephoto end, even out of the water), but about as > wide as digitals get. At the wide end the macro focus goes down to about 1/2 inch, > and a lot of the photos I posted were taken at a distance of 3 to 6 inches. The macro > focus distance increases as you zoom in more than the least bit, but it will still > focus at a couple of inches when zoomed to perhaps 50mm. It's a high quality lens and I saw a place that sells macro lenses that fit over the outside of my housing, I wonder if Ikelite has those as well. > I'm impressed with how much detail it can capture. The autofocus doesn't do well with > low light levels, but I think most of the out of focus shots from the dive trip are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > old when we went on the trip so I barely had time to go through the manual and learn > about the features, never mind work on the fine points. I was playing with the manual settings of mine tonight and I'm getting a little more comfortable with them. Fussing with the buttons underwater is a hassle though, I cant always see the markings on them behind all the hardware. I guess I should practice out of the water with the camera in the housing so I don't have to look at them when I'm underwater. I noticed that I can get much better pictures using the manual focus. I also played around with setting the white balance, I'd be willing to bet it would help to balance the color against my white slate underwater before shooting. > http://www.tapitup.com/fishbite-short.wmv > > Well, it looked like a grouper but I've since bought the Reef Fish book and > I don't see little blue dots on any of the groupers. I think it's a Coney (pg 155, assuming your edition is the same as mine). Size, shape, and the blue dots all agree, and it is a member of the grouper/sea bass family. It looks like it gave you a pretty good nip. > Ah, that looks like a nice camera, 5 megapixels, mine is only 3.2. Your > housing was a bit more expensive than mine, I think it was only $160. I > read some things about the Canon that say the o-rings for the buttons aren't > replaceable but I figure I probably won't have it that long anyways. $160 is dirt cheap to get into the UW photo game. When I borrowed my friend's Nikonos I spent $100 to have it serviced, and that should be done about once a year. Compared to that, with the savings on film you can figure your housing is paid for in a year, and you may be able to get $50 or more for it on ebay if you want to trade up. > I saw a place that sells macro lenses that fit over the outside of my > housing, I wonder if Ikelite has those as well. Some of their housings take different ports for different lenses, and there are a few add-on lenses from other manufacturers (Inon and Epoque are the two big names there) that fit some of the Ikelite housings. Mine doesn't take any add-on lenses so I can't get the really wide angle that you want for general scenics, but that will just give me motivation to trade up in a couple of years. > I was playing with the manual settings of mine tonight and I'm getting a > little more comfortable with them. Fussing with the buttons underwater is a > hassle though, I cant always see the markings on them behind all the > hardware. I guess I should practice out of the water with the camera in the > housing so I don't have to look at them when I'm underwater. My Ikelite housing obscures most of the labeling, and I don't expect that housings for other models are much different. You definitely need to get used to the controls so that you just know what each one does. Your LCD screen presumably shows you all of the settings, so you don't need to memorize every setting, but you want to know which button does what. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > > http://www.tapitup.com/fishbite-short.wmv > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > shape, and the blue dots all agree, and it is a member of the grouper/sea bass > family. It looks like it gave you a pretty good nip. I think you are right on that one, looks more like a Coney > > Ah, that looks like a nice camera, 5 megapixels, mine is only 3.2. Your > > housing was a bit more expensive than mine, I think it was only $160. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to that, with the savings on film you can figure your housing is paid for in a year, > and you may be able to get $50 or more for it on ebay if you want to trade up. I'm thinking about it, I was looking at the 8 megapixel slr digitale and the Canon A95 last night. The A95 was $389 , the SLR's were in the $1100 range > > I saw a place that sells macro lenses that fit over the outside of my > > housing, I wonder if Ikelite has those as well. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > get the really wide angle that you want for general scenics, but that will just give > me motivation to trade up in a couple of years. I'm thinking about it already > > I was playing with the manual settings of mine tonight and I'm getting a > > little more comfortable with them. Fussing with the buttons underwater is a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the settings, so you don't need to memorize every setting, but you want to know which > button does what. > I'm thinking about it, I was looking at the 8 megapixel slr digitale and the > Canon A95 last night. The A95 was $389 , the SLR's were in the $1100 range I want an SLR, but not necessarily for UW. There's a lot to be said for having a fairly small package, an LCD screen for composing a shot, and the housings for SLR's are generally several hundred dollars more than for P&S models. Of course if you want to be really serious about the photograph, I guess the SLR is a foregone conclusion. > I'm thinking about it already That's a good thing to do for a couple of years. The offerings that should be available in time for our 2007 dive trips are likely to be amazing. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. Get my e-address from the jollygreen.org site and drop me a line. |
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