Scuba Forum / General / March 2005
Updated information concerning emergency response to the Boxing Day tsunami
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spinoza1111@yahoo.com - 24 Mar 2005 03:08 GMT I was a participant in January in a discussion of the Tsunami in which I took the position that the US response was primarily public relations.
In the interests of being Fair and Balanced, I should now mention that an emergency worker involved in the day to day operations based on the USS Abraham Lincoln has weighed in with an article in this month's Far Eastern Economic Review.
In "Trifling do-gooders vs the US Navy", a Ms. Lynne O'Donnell from her own first hand experience says that the Navy missions were frequent and substantive, and far quicker than the UN response which was by committee.
She also says that many US Military personnel volunteered to fly extra missions during their downtime, and that their relatives back home (primarily, she says, church groups in the American southland) sent extra supplies to men and women at sea for delivery to the disaster zone.
She adds that many UN and NGO personnel took up valuable space on board rescue helicopters because they did not want to overnight it in the fearful disaster zones, and transformed the Abe Lincoln into a sort of floating hotel for an interesting variety of "do-gooders" (some, I am certain, with the defects of character that motivate the eleemosynary impulse) who, perhaps, got in the swabbies' way as the swabbies polished the brass.
I respect her first hand experience, and I respect swabbies and officers below fag (oops, I mean flag) rank who were convinced that they were doing Good.
The problem is that much Good was done in the initial, 19th century wave of colonization as a form of comic relief to the background fact of systematic pillage and exploitation, and I thought Joe Conrad explained all this in The Heart of Darkness.
The very language of the word "do gooder" tries and I think fails to be adequate to moral complexity in that the road to hell is paved with good intentions: for notice that Lynne O'Donnell and the swabbies (as well as soldiers in Iraq below fag, I mean flag, rank) WANT very much to be do-gooders, with the same tragic yearning US soldiers in Vietnam: with the same desparate hope British soldiers had when they walloped their Christian G-d throughout palm, and pine.
If Lynne's experience was in general the case, then the rapid response of my country did Good. The problem is that it contained, at the fag (I mean flag) rank and at policy making level, no good intentions but instead was conducted as a publicity stunt for the short term, and was easy enough for the US to perform given the disparity in wealth between the US and the rest of the world.
The long term has still to be managed by the UN using a variety of interesting characters from all parts of the world, including UN soldiers with behavior problems and do-gooders with a Past. The problem is that at and above fag (sigh) rank and at the level of policy, the US will refuse to be involved unless it can do so on its own terms and Look Good at all times.
France's record in the Cote d'Ivoire shows that tragically, the developed world is recolonizing the underdeveloped world because the former refuses to treat the latter, in thousands of ways, with dignity and respect and blames it for its troubles. There may be few alternatives to some sort of benign recolonization (which does NOT include the invasion of Iraq). But the Road Not Taken remains Untaken.
Douglas W. \ - 24 Mar 2005 04:04 GMT > I was a participant in January in a discussion of the Tsunami in which > I took the position that the US response was primarily public > relations. What sort of public relations was our response to Iran's earthquake?
Who is this a.shole?
--
Why do activists target fur instead of leather?
Because it's a lot easier to harass fashion models than biker gangs.
Popeye
Douglas W. \ - 24 Mar 2005 04:05 GMT > I was a participant in January in a discussion of the Tsunami in which > I took the position that the US response was primarily public > relations. What sort of public relations was our response to Iran's earthquake?
Who is this a.shole?
--
Why do activists target fur instead of leather?
Because it's a lot easier to harass fashion models than biker gangs.
Popeye
dazed and confuzzed - 24 Mar 2005 05:00 GMT > I was a participant in January in a discussion of the Tsunami in which > I took the position that the US response was primarily public [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > alternatives to some sort of benign recolonization (which does NOT > include the invasion of Iraq). But the Road Not Taken remains Untaken. nice spin, too bad you cannot admit clearly that you were wrong
But I think that somewhere, deep down, you have the hint of an apoligy in there somewhere.
Nice of you to try.
 Signature The constitution promises freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Think about it, It ain't that hard to figure out. If your religion is none, then deal with it.
I strongly urge everyone reading this to check out WWW.anysoldier.com, and support our troops with a letter, a package or a donation.
spinoza1111@yahoo.com - 25 Mar 2005 01:13 GMT I wasn't wrong. I have always believed that apart from certain prison guards who are a truly weird combination of born-again Christian and sadist, most US military personnel below fag (there I go again: I mean flag) rank are good people who joined up because they are go-ahead, energetic sorts who don't want to sit in front of TV and get fat, like most Americans.
I have also long believed that people at the top are mostly vile and do everything for spin alone. I was relieved to read Ms. MacDonald's article because I don't want to always feel ashamed to be an American as I travel the rest of the world.
Douglas W. \ - 25 Mar 2005 01:28 GMT > I wasn't wrong. I have always believed that apart from certain prison > guards who are a truly weird combination of born-again Christian and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > article because I don't want to always feel ashamed to be an American > as I travel the rest of the world. I bet you're not as ashamed to be an American as we are ashamed that you -are- an American.
--
Why do activists target fur instead of leather?
Because it's a lot easier to harass fashion models than biker gangs.
Popeye
dazed and confuzzed - 25 Mar 2005 01:35 GMT a wrote:
> I wasn't wrong. I have always believed that apart from certain prison > guards who are a truly weird combination of born-again Christian and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > article because I don't want to always feel ashamed to be an American > as I travel the rest of the world. why are you ashamed to be an American?
 Signature The constitution promises freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Think about it, It ain't that hard to figure out. If your religion is none, then deal with it.
I strongly urge everyone reading this to check out WWW.anysoldier.com, and support our troops with a letter, a package or a donation.
Douglas W. \ - 25 Mar 2005 02:22 GMT > > I don't want to always feel ashamed to be an American > > as I travel the rest of the world. > > why are you ashamed to be an American? Because it's politically correct in his circle.
spinoza1111@yahoo.com - 25 Mar 2005 14:18 GMT Actually, sailor, I work in a technical field and have been permanently eighty-sixed from faculty teas in Georgetown as far as I know (since I've never been invited to faculty teas at goddamn Georgetown).
spinoza1111@yahoo.com - 25 Mar 2005 14:17 GMT > a wrote: > > I wasn't wrong. I have always believed that apart from certain prison [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > why are you ashamed to be an American? Because my country is dominated by unaccountable elements at fag (oops, I mean flag) military rank and high civilian rank, and its polity as such is beginning to resemble that of Imperial Japan, which started WWII in Asia because Japanese militarists did not give a hoot about the will of the Japanese people and their Emperor himself.
Because the US is dominated by unaccountable elements at fag (dang, did it again) military rank and high civilian rank, EACH incident of sufficient seriousness that results from their antics, from the assassination of JFK to September 11 becomes a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in conspiracy theories, because the American public is assumed to be too stupid and too childish to know the truth...a self-fulfilling prophecy, in fact.
The result is that the earth is covered with our calamities and the heroic behavior of the men and women on board the USS Abe is the exception (which somewhat redeemed its shameful use by Bush to proclaim "victory" in Iraq) and not the goddamn rule.
Any questions, sailor?
> -- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I strongly urge everyone reading this to check out WWW.anysoldier.com, > and support our troops with a letter, a package or a donation. Douglas W. \ - 25 Mar 2005 14:33 GMT > > why are you ashamed to be an American? > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Any questions, sailor? Ya, why are you so homophobic, and why are you still here?
chilly - 25 Mar 2005 14:35 GMT > > Any questions, sailor? > > Ya, why are you so homophobic, and why are you still here? He thinks you have a cute butt.
Good night.
Dennis \(Icarus\) - 27 Mar 2005 03:12 GMT > > > Any questions, sailor? > > > > Ya, why are you so homophobic, and why are you still here? > > He thinks you have a cute butt. Probly saw the fishing photo.
Dennis
> Good night. Scott - 27 Mar 2005 05:36 GMT > Probly saw the fishing photo. But didn't notice the Kabar...
chilly - 27 Mar 2005 12:21 GMT > > > > Any questions, sailor? > > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Probly saw the fishing photo. hee hee hee
good one.
Scott - 25 Mar 2005 14:56 GMT > Ya, why are you so homophobic, and why are you still here? Who?
Douglas W. \ - 25 Mar 2005 15:01 GMT > > Ya, why are you so homophobic, and why are you still here? > > Who? He's in the hole.
spinoza1111@yahoo.com - 26 Mar 2005 02:44 GMT I had to take a minute to find why I am a "homophobe". Oh, yes, it's because I refer to military personnel at decision making levels as being at fag (oops, make that flag) rank.
The conclusion that this makes me a homophobe is based on a simple-minded "parse" of the words, in which the mere occurence of the charged word is overloaded.
The US military is homophobic and has been ever since its closet cases defeated Clinton's initiative to make it honest about sexual diversity. Therefore to refer to its decision makers as being at "fag" rank is to use its own homophobia against it.
I also don't like Lesbians who join the military and sexually humiliate Arab men. Does this also make me a homophobe?
Grumman-581 - 26 Mar 2005 06:28 GMT > I also don't like Lesbians who join the military and sexually humiliate > Arab men. Does this also make me a homophobe? Nawh, just a camel fuckin' Bedoin sympathizer...
Lee Bell - 26 Mar 2005 13:20 GMT spinoza1111@yahoo.com wrote
> I also don't like Lesbians who join the military and sexually humiliate > Arab men. Does this also make me a homophobe? No, it does not make you one. It does, however, strongly suggest that you are one.
Chris Guynn - 28 Mar 2005 22:09 GMT > I had to take a minute to find why I am a "homophobe". Oh, yes, it's > because I refer to military personnel at decision making levels as > being at fag (oops, make that flag) rank. Actually, the fact that you use this terminology isn't the issue. It's the fact that consistently use it that causes concern.
dazed and confuzzed - 25 Mar 2005 15:49 GMT >>a wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >>and support our troops with a letter, a package or a donation. no, you've made your point clearly. If you are so ashamed of your country, don't let the border hit you onthe a.s on the way out.
I think you are one of those folks who feels guilty because you have it so good..
 Signature The constitution promises freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Think about it, It ain't that hard to figure out. If your religion is none, then deal with it.
I strongly urge everyone reading this to check out WWW.anysoldier.com, and support our troops with a letter, a package or a donation.
spinoza1111@yahoo.com - 26 Mar 2005 02:48 GMT Oh, yeah, I have it soooo good.
And if you think that for one minute I would let someone who styles himself "dazed and confused" interpret the Constitution you have another think coming.
I love these handles of people who have through economic terror rediscovered a bourgeois persona but forget that their panty hose are showing in their sig. Did you know that many of the charged abu Ghraib buards are "born again Christians"?
John Mason Jr - 26 Mar 2005 18:21 GMT >>why are you ashamed to be an American? > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Any questions, sailor? It is obvious you are some kind of wanna be with the continued fag (oops, I mean flag) crap.
You will never rise above being a lame troll, so if you don't like it renounce your citizenship you won't be missed.
John
chilly - 25 Mar 2005 13:07 GMT > I wasn't wrong. I have always believed that apart from certain prison > guards who are a truly weird combination of born-again Christian and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > article because I don't want to always feel ashamed to be an American > as I travel the rest of the world. Geez, it might just start to get a bit crowded in the "box", where until recently only a handful resided.
You guys in the "box", sorry, if you are having trouble finding shoulder room. Feel free to thank Nisarel and spinoza.
Douglas W. \ - 25 Mar 2005 13:22 GMT > > I wasn't wrong. I have always believed that apart from certain prison > > guards who are a truly weird combination of born-again Christian and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > You guys in the "box", sorry, if you are having trouble finding shoulder > room. Feel free to thank Nisarel and spinoza. If ya squint, he sounds kinda like Alan... :-)
chilly - 25 Mar 2005 13:50 GMT > > > everything for spin alone. I was relieved to read Ms. MacDonald's > > > article because I don't want to always feel ashamed to be an American [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > If ya squint, he sounds kinda like Alan... :-) It's not that I'm not capable of squinting . . .but I can't squint that much.
Chris Guynn - 28 Mar 2005 22:36 GMT > I was relieved to read Ms. MacDonald's > article because I don't want to always feel ashamed to be an American > as I travel the rest of the world. there's a very easy way to fix that problem.
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