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Scuba Forum / General / March 2005

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barracuda attack: why DAN insurance

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Lou Vallone - 13 Mar 2005 18:01 GMT
A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around barracuda:

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4269866/detail.html

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But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

JOF - 13 Mar 2005 19:16 GMT
>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around barracuda:
>
>http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4269866/detail.html

Man, you had to post that? I like 'cudas. Now you're spoiling it.  8)

That's rough for the kid though, and his folks. It sounds like he was
surface swimming, not diving. I wonder if there's more or less
likelihood of this happening underwater. I suppose it's tough to do
psychological profiles on barracudas though. Are there documented
cases of 'cudas hitting divers?

I'm not uncomfortable around barracudas when I'm diving, and I've been
very close to some good-sized ones, as have most of us here. How does
one take steps to be safe when they're around? With the speed they can
generate I doubt I could react quickly enough to totally ward off the
first hit, even if I saw it coming, and it's tough to spend all one's
time on a dive keeping an eye on all the barracuda nearby.

I know from experience there's no shortage of them in Cancun waters,
although the ones I see there are nowhere near the size of the guys I
see in Florida. I also saw big'uns in GC schooling with Tarpon. I'm
sure Cancun has it's share of big guys but I don't know where they
hang out and I've dived pretty well all the popular sites there.

JF
Adam Helberg - 14 Mar 2005 03:56 GMT
>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> JF

I may be wrong but I think you're more likely to be attacked when snorkeling or
swimming than scuba diving. A large predator may mistake you for its prey while
swimming but does not recognize a diver as anything edible.

Adam
dazed and confuzzed - 14 Mar 2005 04:10 GMT
>>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Adam

So you think that barracuda eat seals?? Or are you confusing them with
Sharks?

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Adam Helberg - 14 Mar 2005 05:59 GMT
>>>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>> Adam
> So you think that barracuda eat seals?? Or are you confusing them with Sharks?

Where did you get the "seals" bit? Or are you confusing this word with "prey"?

Adam
Adam Helberg - 14 Mar 2005 06:27 GMT
I did a google on barracuda attacks.  They are extremely rare and there is no mention
of any difference between divers and swimmers. In some cases the barracuda was acting
in self defense against a spear fisherman, in some it competes for a fish with the
human, and in others there is no known reason. A common theory is that shiny objects
are mistaken by the barracuda for silvery fish it preys on.

Adam
chilly - 14 Mar 2005 08:48 GMT
> I may be wrong but I think you're more likely to be attacked when snorkeling or
> swimming than scuba diving. A large predator may mistake you for its prey while
> swimming but does not recognize a diver as anything edible.

I've had a barracuda attack my fin.  He hung on and we had a little
struggle.  In the end, the 'cuda let go and swam away.

My dive buddies all flooded their masks laughing.  Oddly enough, it wasn't
frightening just weird.
Karl Denninger - 18 Mar 2005 04:31 GMT
>> I may be wrong but I think you're more likely to be attacked when
>snorkeling or
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>My dive buddies all flooded their masks laughing.  Oddly enough, it wasn't
>frightening just weird.

I've shot aggressive ones before (with a speargun)

Every once in a while I get one that's too aggressive for my taste.  It is
my policy to give such fish a headache.

--
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Popeye - 14 Mar 2005 04:25 GMT
> >A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around barracuda:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> very close to some good-sized ones, as have most of us here. How does
> one take steps to be safe when they're around?

 Ignore them! ;-)

 It's funny how different threats bring different perceptions,
regardless of how long the odds are. <grin>

> With the speed they can
> generate I doubt I could react quickly enough to totally ward off the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> JF
JOF - 14 Mar 2005 14:23 GMT
>> I'm not uncomfortable around barracudas when I'm diving, and I've
>been
>> very close to some good-sized ones, as have most of us here. How does
>> one take steps to be safe when they're around?
>
>  Ignore them! ;-)

Aha! I can do that.

>  It's funny how different threats bring different perceptions,
>regardless of how long the odds are. <grin>

I'm gonna start watching out for barracudas with little bitty fanny
packs though.

JF
Lee Bell - 14 Mar 2005 18:44 GMT
>>> I'm not uncomfortable around barracudas when I'm diving, and I've
>>>been very close to some good-sized ones, as have most of us here. How
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Aha! I can do that.

Hmmm, I was going to suggest a spear gun . . . but guess not.  8^)

You might as well ignore them.  If they decide to strike, there isn't a
damned thing you can do about it, not to mention that for every one you see,
there's proabably a half dozen that you didn't see, that saw you.

>>  It's funny how different threats bring different perceptions,
>>regardless of how long the odds are. <grin>
>
> I'm gonna start watching out for barracudas with little bitty fanny
> packs though.

Really, just ignore them.  They're not nearly as dangerous as the armed
criminals you're already ignoring.  In fact, even in Canada, the odds of
being the victim of a violent crime are many times the odds of being
attacked by a barracuda.

Lee
JOF - 14 Mar 2005 19:21 GMT
>>>> I'm not uncomfortable around barracudas when I'm diving, and I've
>>>>been very close to some good-sized ones, as have most of us here. How
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>being the victim of a violent crime are many times the odds of being
>attacked by a barracuda.

I can say with total conviction that whilst diving in the Great Lakes
up here I have absolutely no concerns about Cuda attacks.

JF
Adam Helberg - 14 Mar 2005 21:19 GMT
>>>>> I'm not uncomfortable around barracudas when I'm diving, and I've
>>>>>been very close to some good-sized ones, as have most of us here. How
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> JF

There you're more likely to ingest toxic waste.

Adam
JOF - 14 Mar 2005 21:45 GMT
>> I can say with total conviction that whilst diving in the Great Lakes
>> up here I have absolutely no concerns about Cuda attacks.
>>
>> JF
>
>There you're more likely to ingest toxic waste.

Or be attacked by a herd of ravening Zebra Mussels.

JF
Lee Bell - 14 Mar 2005 22:06 GMT
>>Really, just ignore them.  They're not nearly as dangerous as the armed
>>criminals you're already ignoring.  In fact, even in Canada, the odds of
>>being the victim of a violent crime are many times the odds of being
>>attacked by a barracuda.

> I can say with total conviction that whilst diving in the Great Lakes
> up here I have absolutely no concerns about Cuda attacks.

Glad you agree.  How about Bull Sharks?

Lee
Adam Helberg - 14 Mar 2005 22:58 GMT
>>>Really, just ignore them.  They're not nearly as dangerous as the armed
>>>criminals you're already ignoring.  In fact, even in Canada, the odds of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Lee

Bull yes.
JOF - 14 Mar 2005 23:08 GMT
>>>Really, just ignore them.  They're not nearly as dangerous as the armed
>>>criminals you're already ignoring.  In fact, even in Canada, the odds of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Glad you agree.  How about Bull Sharks?

He's a wimp too. He'll never come this close to water that is less
than 70 degrees in the winter.

JF
Richard J Kinch - 14 Mar 2005 06:39 GMT
> I doubt I could react quickly enough to totally ward off the
> first hit, even if I saw it coming, and it's tough to spend all one's
> time on a dive keeping an eye on all the barracuda nearby.

React quickly enough?

If you've ever seen a cuda strike, all you see is the submarine floating
there, and then over there.  You don't see the motion in between, it is so
fast.

Richard J Kinch
Palm Beach County, Florida USA
http://www.truetex.com
Keith - 14 Mar 2005 14:17 GMT
>> I doubt I could react quickly enough to totally ward off the
>> first hit, even if I saw it coming, and it's tough to spend all one's
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Palm Beach County, Florida USA
>http://www.truetex.com

When we were night diving last week, we were told to PLEASE not shine
our dive lights on the smaller fish as the barracuda would attack
them.  It didn't work.
Froggy - 15 Mar 2005 00:18 GMT
Saw it on night dives in Thailand.

It worked.

The barracuda would swim alongside us, remaining at the edge of the
lamps' beams until a fish was lit long enough.

Then snap! all you saw were some bits of fish and a barracuda tail.

With a nice crunching sound.

Cheers,

Froggy
JOF - 14 Mar 2005 14:23 GMT
>> I doubt I could react quickly enough to totally ward off the
>> first hit, even if I saw it coming, and it's tough to spend all one's
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>there, and then over there.  You don't see the motion in between, it is so
>fast.

Exactly what I meant.

JF
Karl Denninger - 18 Mar 2005 04:32 GMT
>> I doubt I could react quickly enough to totally ward off the
>> first hit, even if I saw it coming, and it's tough to spend all one's
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Palm Beach County, Florida USA
>http://www.truetex.com

Yep.

I've gotten them on video striking a school of baitfish before.

Even when examined in "frame by frame" mode in my DV editing software the
actual strike is NOT visible!

--
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Keith - 13 Mar 2005 19:28 GMT
>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around barracuda:
>
>http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4269866/detail.html

DAN insurance may have helped a little, but only if he had the
preferred plan and then they would have paid $10,000 for a non-dive
accident.
Adam Helberg - 13 Mar 2005 20:15 GMT
>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> preferred plan and then they would have paid $10,000 for a non-dive
> accident.

One time I came across a large Barracuda swimming in a circle, while I was
snorkeling. All of a sudden the Barracuda turned to me and you have never seen a
snorkeler swim so fast as I did that time.

Adam
JOF - 13 Mar 2005 20:25 GMT
>>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>snorkeling. All of a sudden the Barracuda turned to me and you have never seen a
>snorkeler swim so fast as I did that time.

There is one very people friendly, fairly large Barracuda that lives
near Key Largo. He's well known to at least some of the dive ops and
on one dive came alongside and swam for what seemed like a couple of
hunderd feet barely a foot or two off my right shoulder. Later I saw
him apparently playing with the deck hand who would freedive down 20
or 30' and goof around with him. The fish acted like a puppy.  I was
told his name was Psycho. That's the barracuda, not the boat kid.

JF
nitespark - 13 Mar 2005 20:56 GMT
>>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> snorkeling. All of a sudden the Barracuda turned to me and you have never seen a
> snorkeler swim so fast as I did that time.

Reminds me.  All of the barracuda I have seen have been hovering at
least 20 ft or more off the bottom, except for one I saw and
photographed last year in Cozumel.  He was within a few inches of the
bottom.
Signature

I have never met a liberal street cop.

Bill Fright - 13 Mar 2005 23:15 GMT
>>>> A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent
>>>> around barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> photographed last year in Cozumel.  He was within a few inches of the
> bottom.

Yep that was probably the one that attacked Paul.
Dillon Pyron - 14 Mar 2005 02:53 GMT
>>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Adam

Last time we were in Cozumel, we watched a 3-4 ft cuda take a fairly
large fish.  We watched it "worry" the fish for about 15 minutes.

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dillon

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Steve - 13 Mar 2005 20:43 GMT
> DAN insurance may have helped a little, but only if he had the
> preferred plan and then they would have paid $10,000 for a non-dive
> accident.

Both the Preferred and Master plan include coverage for snorkeling as well as diving,
making the coverage limit 125 or 250k. The equipment loss provision would also have
paid for the mask and snorkel he no doubt lost during the attack. Maybe wearing fins
would have reduced the injuries.

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Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

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Jer - 13 Mar 2005 21:36 GMT
>> DAN insurance may have helped a little, but only if he had the
>> preferred plan and then they would have paid $10,000 for a non-dive
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> loss provision would also have paid for the mask and snorkel he no doubt
> lost during the attack. Maybe wearing fins would have reduced the injuries.

Nothing in that web article about an ankle bracelet or toe ring.  One
wonders....

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jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

JOF - 13 Mar 2005 21:47 GMT
>>> DAN insurance may have helped a little, but only if he had the
>>> preferred plan and then they would have paid $10,000 for a non-dive
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Nothing in that web article about an ankle bracelet or toe ring.  One
>wonders....

I'd forgotten about that. The first time I went snorkelling in Cancun
(before I took up diving) I was cruising around a large coral head at
15' or so and came across a school of smallish but nasty looking fish.
I headed for the surface. Later I asked one of the fellers operating
the site (it was a commercial platform run by Aquaworld but long since
gone) if there were barracuda in these waters. He said definitely,
lots of them. I asked if they were dangerous. He said not at all,
unles one is wearing shiny jewellery and pointed to my neckchain and
silver pendant dangling at my throat.

I now religiously remove my rings and the chain before any dive.

JF
Steve - 14 Mar 2005 05:41 GMT
> I now religiously remove my rings and the chain before any dive.

There are much better reasons than barracuda to remove your rings. If the water is at
all cool shrinkage is likely to affect your fingers, as well as other parts. If a
newly loose ring fell off of your finger, you'd hardly be the first that it happened
to. I've got a friend who spent a few summers as a lifeguard and he swears he filled
a cigar box with rings from the bottom of the pool, and I know someone else who lost
his wedding ring in the waters of Bermuda during his honeymoon.

In the very unlikely event that a barracuda, moray, or pufferfish does shred your
hand you'll probably be glad you don't have to pull any rings over your mangled fingers.

Signature

Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

drunkinbda - 19 Mar 2005 20:28 GMT
Steve Wrote:

> I've got a friend who spent a few summers as a lifeguard and he swears
> he filled
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

Yeah ive been lifeguarding in bermuda for the past 9 summers. I am
always finding stuff that falls off, expensive sunglasses, money, and
jewelry. I found a wedding ring, presumeably a womans though while
diving one time. Im often surprised at the valueable things people just
seem to lose.

Signature

drunkinbda

Keith - 13 Mar 2005 22:42 GMT
>> Both the Preferred and Master plan include coverage for snorkeling as
>> well as diving, making the coverage limit 125 or 250k. The equipment
>> loss provision would also have paid for the mask and snorkel he no doubt
>> lost during the attack.

LOL.  I must have "missed" that part of the article.
Skip  Elliott Bowman - 14 Mar 2005 18:22 GMT
> Nothing in that web article about an ankle bracelet or toe ring.  One
> wonders....

This is an excerpt from an article I wrote a few years back that describes a
barracuda encounter (I tried to convert it to plain text; my apologies if it
didn't convert):

Scuba diving is next on the list, so daybreak finds me visiting a sunken
wreck about a mile offshore.    Royal, an airline pilot from South Carolina,
is my scuba partner for the day.  He's been diving Anguilla's many
shipwrecks for fifteen years and offers to be an informal guide.    Upon
submerging, we dive seventy feet straight down to the ruins    Royal reaches
a sunken freighter long before me, and it's just as well: from a porthole
amidships emerges a barracuda almost as big as me!     Statues fidget more
than Royal does as the barracuda slowly circles him, eyeballing him with a
half-bored, half-amused expression     I notice the dive master's eyes
laughing behind her mask; she and the quite tame barracuda are old friends.
After the barracuda re-enters the hulk, I tour the reef into a world out of
National Geographic.    Polka dotted rays, colorful tiny cleaner shrimp,
more tropical fish than Sea World, and they're all so big!    Here are
life-sized versions of animals I've studied in countless aquariums, except
this time we're the curiosities being observed.    All too soon, the dive is
finished and we're headed back to shore.    Royal wants to call home and see
if his insurance covers assault by barracuda.
chilly - 14 Mar 2005 08:57 GMT
> >A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around barracuda:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> preferred plan and then they would have paid $10,000 for a non-dive
> accident.

Has anyone heard anything about a DCI incident on the Nai'a?  I haven't been
able to find out much so far, but I gather DAN would not cover the injured
party?
CB - 13 Mar 2005 21:36 GMT
>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>barracuda:

>http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4269866/detail.html

>Lou Vallone

>LouVallone@aol.com

>http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

The story/article doesn't mention if the victim, Paul Guzan, was wearing
anything shiny, attracting the cuda's attention.

I don't think he would be wearing an ankle bracelet or have a mermaid
tattoo.

I suspect there's more to the story than reported.

In the years I've dived off Volusia/Cocoa, doing multible dives, 5ft+ cuda
get progressively closer as we are near the boat. I've always covered my
wedding ring with a glove and taken my nose ring(s) out so as not to attrack
the dogs of the sea.

When I got NITROX certified, there where black tip sharks around. I told the
Divemaster I'd rather dive with cudas rather than sharks and she said just
the opposite.

I guess the point is, be carefull not to sharsh about on the surface to
much. Who hasn't played "Maro Polo" in the water?

CB
CB - 13 Mar 2005 21:40 GMT
CORRECTION:

>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent
>>around
>>barracuda:

I guess the point is, be carefull not to...

'splash'

...about on the surface to  much. Who hasn't played "Maro Polo" in the
water?

CB


Bill Fright - 13 Mar 2005 23:17 GMT
>>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around
>>barracuda:
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> CB

In Sipadan a month ago we dove purposely to be right next to a huge wall
of baracuda. We even took photos. I'd say this instance is very very
rare and we're not being told something.
Jim - 20 Mar 2005 02:16 GMT
> The story/article doesn't mention if the victim, Paul Guzan, was wearing
> anything shiny, attracting the cuda's attention.

come on, look at his mugshot:

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4269866/detail.html

that's 2 possibly diamond ear-rings. His shirt's done so high you can't
see his neck ornamentation, but I would guess it wouldn't be too
dissimilar...

wondering how many ears the kid's got left now...
Dr. Yak - 14 Mar 2005 02:16 GMT
I was injured diving several years ago in Cozumel, and they also did not
want to talk about US insurance.  I got a statement from the surgeon (in
English), and my insurance company (Aetna) reimbursed me without any
problems.  I didn't even have to call DAN.
GWB - 14 Mar 2005 04:36 GMT
Often, while spearfishing, barracuda will eyeball my fish like they're
thinking about helping themselves.  If I make an aggressive move
toward them they flee.  
CB - 14 Mar 2005 04:52 GMT
> Often, while spearfishing, barracuda will eyeball my fish like they're
> thinking about helping themselves.  If I make an aggressive move
> toward them they flee.

Cuda have sniffed my catch bag zillions of times, with no incident.

There was a time I plugged a sheephead and a parrot fish kept nipping at it.
The sheephead, with a spear in its gill was more frightened of the parrot
than me. The parrot got in three or four good nips in until I got it to take
a hike. Every time the parrot came in the sheephead poured on the juice.
Signature

CB
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those losses?" he asked, not even trying to be funny.
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mike gray - 14 Mar 2005 16:02 GMT
> A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around barracuda:
>
> http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4269866/detail.html

Sounds fishy to me.

Barracuda are abundant around here, and gather in groups of
hundreds around the wrecks. Being apex predators, they show
little fear of humans, but are not aggressive. It's the cold
eye, sharp teeth, and lack of fear that spooks people. And five
footers are common.

Fisherdudes often get bit, but I think that has to do with being
hooked and pulled into a boat. Pisses off the cuda. I was once
able to get a cuda to hit a light on a night dive, but it took a
lot of work. I wanted to see how fast and hard they hit.
Incredibly fast. Very very hard.

The injury to the snorkeler's foot doesn't sound very cuda'ish,
either. They don't attack stuff too big to swallow and they
don't chew.

And DAN insurance is good stuff, I've had it for twenty years,
but never used it. Remember it is secondary coverage, pays if
yer primary coverage doesn't.

m
Joe - 20 Mar 2005 00:06 GMT
It is very difficult for me to believe that this attack was initiated
or even caused by a Barracuda.

After snorkeling and scuba diving with thousands of barracudas in many
places around the globe, I don't believe the fish is at fault. If it
was a Barracuda, it was more likely the result of harrassment,
enticement or threatening of the poor fish. There could be a slight
chance of mistaken identity, but very unlikely.

Another more likely scenario could be that these kids were drunk out
of their minds, probably puked their lunch in the water and the
barracuda got in "feeding mode".................hence causing the
unfortunate event.

I believe that there was some dumb human intervention to force a
Barracuda to attack a thing bigger than themselves.

Because he looks like an Ol'e american boy, their parents seems to be
very dumb as well. Making a fuss in Mejico over payment to a hospital.
Cheap bastards....I do not believe them that he did not get medical
attention. This is just another stupid dumb kid drunk who inserted his
foot in the poor Barracuda.

I feel bad for the poor barracudas.

I rather be in the water with a giantbarracuda that with some of the
dumb scuba divers that post messages here.

Bye

>A good argument for having DAN insurance and not being to complacent around barracuda:
>
>http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4269866/detail.html
Daniel Arrepas - 20 Mar 2005 16:19 GMT
> It is very difficult for me to believe that this attack was initiated
> or even caused by a Barracuda.
>
> After snorkeling and scuba diving with thousands of barracudas in many
> places around the globe, I don't believe the fish is at fault.

There is nothing about the normal behavior of animals that disallows the
sometimes extraordinary behavior. Like the shark that attacks the human, or
the Yellow Tangs that attack the unadorned ear, barracudas are perfectly
capable of, and are on recorded for, taking a bite out of a person for no
reason we humans recognize. We're not that smart about the oceans to know
"whys" of everything that happens there.

I haven't had it happen to me, nor have I seen it, but I have spoken to 2
people who have suffered Barracuda attacks for no reason that would seem to
match any of our preconceived notions about why they may bite.

There is no reason a fish can't make a mistake, particularly an old or maybe
sick one. And any animal that can accelerate to 60mph in 1/2 seconds is
going to do some damage even when their attack is mistaken.
Joe - 20 Mar 2005 19:23 GMT
Nice assessment............

It will not stop me from continue to enjoy scuba diving.

I just read about a snorkeler cut in half by a shark in Australia.
Probably mitaken identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/australia.shark.ap/index.html

>> It is very difficult for me to believe that this attack was initiated
>> or even caused by a Barracuda.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>sick one. And any animal that can accelerate to 60mph in 1/2 seconds is
>going to do some damage even when their attack is mistaken.
Daniel Arrepas - 21 Mar 2005 02:32 GMT
> Nice assessment............

And I didn't mean to be argumentative. In fact your reference to vomit and
the attraction to the fish reminded me of my early diving days when we would
dive West Palm, drink and drive our way down to the Keys that night, and
then take Crawford's boat out for a few dives in the morning. On a couple
occasions I threw up underwater and the resulting mad dash by the
Yellowtails to gobble it up would get me bit a time or two.

I don't discount this could have happened with the 'cuda, though I would
expect the bite to have been around the head rather than the foot were this
the case.
chilly - 21 Mar 2005 07:51 GMT
> > Nice assessment............
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> expect the bite to have been around the head rather than the foot were this
> the case.

Maybe he was swimming away from the barf, when it happened.
 
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