My trip in the Cozumel Chamber

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chuck - 11 Mar 2005 22:11 GMT

I was recently bent in Cozumel and this is my story, if it helps keep one
person from going through what I did then it is worth it.

http://www.scubaboard.com/t89838-my-trip-in-the-cozumel-chamber-(very-long).html

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Rudy Benner - 11 Mar 2005 22:37 GMT

Excellent.

>I was recently bent in Cozumel and this is my story, if it helps keep one
>person from going through what I did then it is worth it.
>
> http://www.scubaboard.com/t89838-my-trip-in-the-cozumel-chamber-(very-long).html

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Wayne Gallinger - 11 Mar 2005 22:50 GMT

Chuck,

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this with everyone. I am glad
you are doing better and will make a full recovery. The dive rules you
listed are very good and I will be putting them to use.

Wayne

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Salty - 12 Mar 2005 04:41 GMT

> I was recently bent in Cozumel and this is my story, if it helps keep one
> person from going through what I did then it is worth it.

http://www.scubaboard.com/t89838-my-trip-in-the-cozumel-chamber-(very-long).html

Hmm. Re: your rules :

**RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
to three weeks before a dive trip.

This rule is useless to me and it's absolute nonsense to almost every
one else. There is no need to hydrate yourself out of the ordinary
before a dive trip to ward off problems. If you need to do so, then
you need to ask yourself why you aren't comsuming adequate fluids to
survive on a daily basis and why the fluids you consume aren't being
processed by your body. IOW, you need to ask your doctor to do blood
work and a urine test on you to figure out why you should need to
actively hydrate two or three weeks before a trip.

**RULE #2** I will never dive and fly in the same daylight hours.

Useless to me too for flying to a destinatination. Please explain why.

**RULE #3** I will never dive another Square profile. From this dive
forward I will take the max depth on my computer

Hmm ?? Your computer is going to be more giving in terms of time...
that is unless you can't figure out what you've done to come up with a
square profile that is correct.

**RULE #4** I will never step one foot on another dive boat without
first asking, 1. Do you have oxygen on board this boat. 2. Is the
bottle full. 3. Do you know how to use it?

Oh God Bless You. You might be the first one recently to question how
the ppl died on Peter Huges boat in Belize and to suggest that ppl ask
about what safety measures are around on the boat that they pay to have
their a.ses hauled around for dives.

**RULE #5** Before every dive when checking your equipment also
evaluate your body. Are you tired, dehydrated, anxious, nervous
anything that you can think of. After the dive revaluate your body. Are
there any changes, if so you need to be checked! The dives are setup to
stop or prevent any changes in your body, with the possible exception
of slight fatigue, but over fatigue is a signal.

I must not understand. You mean to tell me that **before** this
incident with you, it never occured to you to think about your body
reaction and how you felt before a dive ??!!

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Greg Mossman - 12 Mar 2005 08:16 GMT

> **RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
> to three weeks before a dive trip.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> work and a urine test on you to figure out why you should need to
> actively hydrate two or three weeks before a trip.

I think it's all the crap he eats. An Egg McMuffin, candy bars, a
cheeseburger, nachos, and Cokes, it's a wonder he didn't have a coronary.

It sounds to me like he had a TIA. "Other less common symptoms include:
Sudden nausea, fever and vomiting - distinguished from a viral illness by
the speed of onset (minutes or hours vs. several days)." "TIA is a
Transient Ischemic Attack or episode whereby symptoms of stroke appear for
only a very short while and then disappear. The word "ischemic" means there
is a local and temporary obstruction of the circulation. "Transient" means
that symptoms are temporary and will soon go away."

The hyperbaric oxygen treatment, as well as time, helped resolved the TIA
but led to the unfortunate misdiagnosis of DCS. Instead of quitting coffee,
he should be quitting cheeseburgers.

> **RULE #2** I will never dive and fly in the same daylight hours.
>
> Useless to me too for flying to a destinatination. Please explain why.

My reason is because I drink too much on the plane. And because, coming
from the west coast, it's always too late to dive in the Caribbean unless I
take a red-eye from home. Otherwise it's a completely silly notion. If
anything, acclimation to the ambient cabin pressure should reduce the chance
of DCS.

BTW, I am taking a red-eye on the way to Puerto Rico, one week from today.
We arrive at 9 a.m. or something like that and even I might not be drinking
yet that early. But I won't be diving that day because I'm also really lazy
and getting to the hotel, unpacking, gathering the gear, and trying to make
an afternoon dive will be too much work since we're not staying at a dive
resort. So I have all Sunday to hydrate myself with margaritas before
taking the plunge Monday morning.

> **RULE #4** I will never step one foot on another dive boat without
> first asking, 1. Do you have oxygen on board this boat. 2. Is the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> about what safety measures are around on the boat that they pay to have
> their a.ses hauled around for dives.

Are you now claiming that Peter Hughes didn't have O2 on the Wave Dancer?

BTW, a guy on my Thailand trip was in the same Virginia dive club as the
Wave Dancer victims. He thought it was ludicrous that they had a hurricane
party. I gave that a lot of thought during our tsunami party, while we were
anchored in the dark deep waters far out in Phuket Bay instead of at the
dock the night before disembarking because there were warnings of subsequent
waves to come. But the idea of dying sober sounded too tragic so the party
continued on.

> **RULE #5** Before every dive when checking your equipment also
> evaluate your body. Are you tired, dehydrated, anxious, nervous
> anything that you can think of. After the dive revaluate your body. Are
> there any changes, if so you need to be checked! The dives are setup to
> stop or prevent any changes in your body, with the possible exception
> of slight fatigue, but over fatigue is a signal.

> I must not understand. You mean to tell me that **before** this
> incident with you, it never occured to you to think about your body
> reaction and how you felt before a dive ??!!

Yeah sure. And besides, how are you supposed to tell whether you are too
tired, dehydrated, anxious, or nervous when you're still really hungover
from the night before? If I didn't get in the water on the first dive of
the morning without a headache, nausea, light sensitivity, and extreme
malaise, I'd think something was wrong with me and call a doctor.

Reply to this Message

H. Huntzinger - 15 Mar 2005 13:38 GMT

> > **RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
> > to three weeks before a dive trip.
> >
> > This rule is useless to me and it's absolute nonsense to almost every
> > one else. There is no need to hydrate yourself out of the ordinary
> > before a dive trip to ward off problems...

Agreed Salty. I read his entire account and noticed that every beverage
he drank was a diuretic.

> I think it's all the crap he eats. An Egg McMuffin, candy bars, a
> cheeseburger, nachos, and Cokes, it's a wonder he didn't have a coronary.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> is a local and temporary obstruction of the circulation. "Transient" means
> that symptoms are temporary and will soon go away."

YMMV. To me, between noticing that he had a rapid ascent and puking
that was more likely the result of vertigo from some sort of ear trauma,
I'd shy away from the more exotic explanations...just as the local dive
op did (who assumed it was food poisoning).

> BTW, I am taking a red-eye on the way to Puerto Rico, one week from today.

Enjoy.

-hh

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Salty - 27 Mar 2005 11:04 GMT

> > **RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
> > to three weeks before a dive trip.

> I think it's all the crap he eats. An Egg McMuffin, candy bars, a
> cheeseburger, nachos, and Cokes, it's a wonder he didn't have a coronary.

LOL !!

> My reason is because I drink too much on the plane. And because, coming
> from the west coast, it's always too late to dive in the Caribbean unless I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> resort. So I have all Sunday to hydrate myself with margaritas before
> taking the plunge Monday morning.

LOL ! Gotta love it. How was that ??

> > **RULE #4** I will never step one foot on another dive boat without
> > first asking, 1. Do you have oxygen on board this boat. 2. Is the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Are you now claiming that Peter Hughes didn't have O2 on the Wave Dancer?

Naaa. I'm just saying that Peter Hughes still has not produced an
explanation in the way of a court document to speak about that
incident. He still has not had to face the Belize government
inquiry.... the one that they said would occur from the official
government investigation. The government of Belize has not put forth
any investigation to date, even though they promised they would. So
twenty some ppl are dead.

> BTW, a guy on my Thailand trip was in the same Virginia dive club as the
> Wave Dancer victims. He thought it was ludicrous that they had a hurricane
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> waves to come. But the idea of dying sober sounded too tragic so the party
> continued on.

Cool. LMAO

> > **RULE #5** Before every dive when checking your equipment also
> > evaluate your body. Are you tired, dehydrated, anxious, nervous
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> the morning without a headache, nausea, light sensitivity, and extreme
> malaise, I'd think something was wrong with me and call a doctor.

Hey... there ya go. BTW, I been told about your tsumani stint. I'm
glad that you're alive to tell about it and that no harm has come to
you. Nice to see ya here live and well Greg.

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Lee Bell - 27 Mar 2005 12:57 GMT

> Naaa. I'm just saying that Peter Hughes still has not produced an
> explanation in the way of a court document to speak about that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> any investigation to date, even though they promised they would. So
> twenty some ppl are dead.

Since I've read the official report on this incident, at least part of what
you are saying is incorrect. The Belize government did an investigation,
they drew conclusions and they issued a public report.

> He thought it was ludicrous that they had a hurricane
> party.

If you're talking about on board the boat, then my friend, who was one of
the survivors of the tragedy, thought it would have been crazy too. He says
it didn't happen.

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Salty - 30 Mar 2005 08:47 GMT

If you've read the official report, then please tell us where we can
get a copy !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: on the boat, you and I and talking the same man my friend.

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Greg Mossman - 28 Mar 2005 03:50 GMT

>> resort. So I have all Sunday to hydrate myself with margaritas
> before
>> taking the plunge Monday morning.
>
> LOL ! Gotta love it. How was that ??

I stuck with rum instead. Fell asleep by happy hour. Red eye flights suck.

Reply to this Message

Lee Bell - 12 Mar 2005 08:36 GMT

> **RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
> to three weeks before a dive trip.

> This rule is useless to me and it's absolute nonsense to almost every
> one else. There is no need to hydrate yourself out of the ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> work and a urine test on you to figure out why you should need to
> actively hydrate two or three weeks before a trip.

Point to Salty. On the other hand, I've been known to make a point of
ensuring I'm adequately hydrated prior to a dive, or series of dives, but
certainly not for three days prior.

> **RULE #2** I will never dive and fly in the same daylight hours.

> Useless to me too for flying to a destinatination. Please explain why.

Depends on how you take the rule. If "dive and fly" means in that order, a
lot of us follow this rule. If it means in any order, then it's only useful
in the context of Rule 1. Most who fly for several hours become somewhat
dehydrated as a result. A post flight glass of water will take care of
that. Interestingly, in Cozumel, the cure may be worse than the cold, if
you know what I mean.

> **RULE #3** I will never dive another Square profile. From this dive
> forward I will take the max depth on my computer

> Hmm ?? Your computer is going to be more giving in terms of time...
> that is unless you can't figure out what you've done to come up with a
> square profile that is correct.

Not a meaningful rule in the first place. Since the issue of profile has
come up, however, it's worth noting that the "we're going to 70 feet for 40
minutes or so is on the edge, or over it, for many dive computers. My old
computers would have put me on the edge, right at the top of the caution
zone. My new one would have required a deco stop.

> **RULE #4** I will never step one foot on another dive boat without
> first asking, 1. Do you have oxygen on board this boat. 2. Is the
> bottle full. 3. Do you know how to use it?

> Oh God Bless You. You might be the first one recently to question how
> the ppl died on Peter Huges boat in Belize and to suggest that ppl ask
> about what safety measures are around on the boat that they pay to have
> their a.ses hauled around for dives.

You're going to make youself real unpopular asking somebody if they know how
to use the O2 you have confirmed they brought. Expect answers like "you
breathe it," is there something more you need to know?

For most dive trips, it's enough to understand what safety equipment is and
where it is. Safety equipment, to be worth anything, has to be obvious and,
if it is, an astute passenger can verify it's there for themselves.

> **RULE #5** Before every dive when checking your equipment also
> evaluate your body. Are you tired, dehydrated, anxious, nervous
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> incident with you, it never occured to you to think about your body
> reaction and how you felt before a dive ??!!

8^)

Lee

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Chris Guynn - 14 Mar 2005 15:40 GMT

> > **RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
> > to three weeks before a dive trip.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> ensuring I'm adequately hydrated prior to a dive, or series of dives, but
> certainly not for three days prior.

ummm... weeks, Lee, 3 weeks.

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Lee Bell - 14 Mar 2005 18:38 GMT

>> > **RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
>> > to three weeks before a dive trip.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> ummm... weeks, Lee, 3 weeks.

Oops. Certainly not three weeks prior.

I have to say, when I first read the account, my first impression was that
it was somebody making things up, but I figured it might just be a
relatively new diver. Frankly, I'm back to my original opinion or maybe
it's a new diver that makes things up. It wouldn't be the first time.

Lee

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Dillon Pyron - 14 Mar 2005 21:32 GMT

>>> > **RULE #1** From this trip forward, I will start hydrating my body two
>>> > to three weeks before a dive trip.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Oops. Certainly not three weeks prior.

SCCA says corner workers should be peeing clear about 3 minutes before
they go out on the track. (Well, they don't actually say that, but the
unofficial manual does). Three weeks of doing that and you might find
yourself isotonically imbalanced. Which is also bad.

>I have to say, when I first read the account, my first impression was that
>it was somebody making things up, but I figured it might just be a
>relatively new diver. Frankly, I'm back to my original opinion or maybe
>it's a new diver that makes things up. It wouldn't be the first time.
>
>Lee

Signature

dillon

"When the French are against it, you know we can't
be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman

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JOF - 14 Mar 2005 23:07 GMT

>SCCA says corner workers should be peeing clear about 3 minutes before
>they go out on the track. (Well, they don't actually say that, but the
>unofficial manual does). Three weeks of doing that and you might find
>yourself isotonically imbalanced. Which is also bad.

I think all SCCA posts have to be vetted by Mike Gray.

JF

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Jerome Meekings - 17 Mar 2005 17:01 GMT

> > **RULE #4** I will never step one foot on another dive boat without
> > first asking, 1. Do you have oxygen on board this boat. 2. Is the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> to use the O2 you have confirmed they brought. Expect answers like "you
> breathe it," is there something more you need to know?

Having used quite a number of different dive boats I feel that this one
is OK. Dive boat crew change often and there is no reason to assume that
they have been trained with the setup used on that boat. There are
enough diffrent setups for delivering surface O2, and some of them are
not intuitive, that it a reasonable question to ask.

If I got answers as you suggest I would question the professionalism of
the boat and if I wanted to use them. The question is good and deserves
a good, not facetious, answer.

> For most dive trips, it's enough to understand what safety equipment is and
> where it is. Safety equipment, to be worth anything, has to be obvious and,
> if it is, an astute passenger can verify it's there for themselves.

>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me

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Al Wells - 15 Mar 2005 20:41 GMT

> I was recently bent in Cozumel and this is my story, if it helps keep one
> person from going through what I did then it is worth it.

Good story Chuck, but I think the lesson to be learned is to recognize
the symptoms that you had for what they indicate, which is a serious
Type II vestibular hit. This is not the kind of hit that is usually
associated with dehydration, tiredness or whatever - it suggests a
shunt, especially with the profile you posted. I would get checked for
a PFO before diving again.

I'm very glad that there was someone who recognized this and got you to
someone else who knows how to treat it. I hope your recovery is
complete, and that you will find out if you have a condition that puts
you at increased risk before you dive again.

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