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Scuba Forum / General / November 2003A Banner day
We were invaded. Not one, but five divers from the dark side. Two had the biggest spearguns I've ever seen. Five feet long and four banded. All the rest carried spearguns as well. One brought two sets of doubles on board. I was gratified to learn that correct technique for carrying doubles is to grab both ends and hold the manifold right under your chin with elbows high. One was sporting DIN valve 8" jesus-jugs with cave fills. I was too honored for words when he decided my foot was the best place to rest one of them. I also learned that 8" jesus jugs are carried on the shoulder, especially when boarding the boat. Three of them carried HID. I can't say what the burn times were but the size of the canisters reassured me that the boat would have no difficulty starting engines in the event that the 8Ds failed. Nine O'clock departure time came and went as we watched one of them (who arrived at eight thirty), stand by his car talking on a cell phone while his wife stood by talking on another cell phone as he carefully assembled his gear. Gear that would not be on the boat for another fifteen minutes. It's important to set it up right. Dive time finally arrives and we learn all kinds of new entry techniques. Face first seems to be popular with the big guns, while baby strides that tap the platform with the tank, coming in a close second. Effective weight distribution is no problem. We see one of them hitch up the all-neoprene-multi-pocket-crotch-strap-captive belt to a point just below his sternum and cinch it up tight. This guy is a serious hunter. He sports a blue on blue camo wetsuit so the fish will never see him coming. Pointing to an all-purpose folding hex-key set with a first stage port plug on the deck, I ask: "Is that a problem?" One of the big guns waiting to enter the water is handed a spool he left behind. He slides it under the palm of the hand holding the monster gun. Good call. You don't want too much stuff on yer D-Rings. Two of the divers about to enter look like they are going to vapor lock. Hyperventilating, their faces are locked in a grimace of firm determination to overcome their obstacle. My rescue training tells me to intervene, but the sight of those long hoses and practiced OOA skills supersedes my gut feeling. When we got back on the boat, all the divers were there. That was a relief. We overheard firm reassurances: "Nah you don't need a computer. I do it all in my head." "Once you get your tech I it's all second nature." "30 fpm to the first stop. Stay 20 seconds, then 20 seconds for the next ten feet. Stop for 20 seconds. Then just repeat that until you get to 20 feet." One of the spear-sissies got a nice Hog. Rather than dispatch it, he just poked it in the eye with the steel catch loop, poking it out the other side. A half our later, the fish was still alive. It's a pity that his "distressed-fish-shark-troller" failed to attract our resident bull. I know he wanted to kill something really big. The hog was proudly displayed on the centerline mat, so we just stepped over it to get to the second dive. When we got back they were all on board again except for one, so I have great faith now in their decompression planning. The odd man out was found by his lift bag. DIR divers are very impressive. The impression is indelible. safe diving, bullshark >The hog was proudly displayed on the centerline mat, so we just >stepped over it to get to the second dive. When we got back they [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >bullshark Nice story. It sounds like the Pony Boys have been reincarnated as GUE grads. Alan (snip) Just proves there's a very fine line between recreational scuba and entertainment scuba. > blah blah Might be GUE grads, if you say so, but they're not DIR. There is a difference. > > blah blah > > Might be GUE grads, if you say so, but they're not DIR. There is a > difference. You were there? If not, what makes you think your guess is better than bullshark's observation? Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much is obvious ;) > > > blah blah > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You were there? If not, what makes you think your guess is better than > bullshark's observation? > Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your > hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much > is obvious ;) Only if you assume that all DIR divers are DIR all the time. I imagine that part of bullshark's point is that they aren't. He and I have both seen DIR divers doing some very non DIR stuff. Quite often, it's a case of do as I say, not as I do . . . or, perhaps, because somebody that is DIR thought of it, it's fine. When somebody else came up with it, it's crap. Lee > > Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your > > hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > say, not as I do . . . or, perhaps, because somebody that is DIR thought of > it, it's fine. When somebody else came up with it, it's crap. I thought that if you were DIR, then you're a DIR diver. If you're doing something non-DIR, then you aren't a DIR diver - no matter what they claim they are, no matter how much Halcyon gear they have, no matter how many classes they've taken from MHK or GUE. :-) Dennis > Lee >I thought that if you were DIR, then you're a DIR diver. If you're doing >something non-DIR, then you aren't a DIR diver - no matter what they claim >they are, no matter how much Halcyon gear they have, no matter how many >classes they've taken from MHK or GUE. :-) There are dangers in dealing in absolutes. JF "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." - Andrew Jackson (1767-1845) "Dennis (Icarus)" wrote > I thought that if you were DIR, then you're a DIR diver. If you're doing > something non-DIR, then you aren't a DIR diver - no matter what they claim > they are, no matter how much Halcyon gear they have, no matter how many > classes they've taken from MHK or GUE. :-) That's a rather convenient way to ensure your organization is never wrong. Lucky for all of us, there are those that won't let something like this slide. You can't claim to have the best answer for all diving, in all conditions, and all situations, and then claim that when you screwed up you weren't being DIR that day. Lee > "Dennis (Icarus)" wrote > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > conditions, and all situations, and then claim that when you screwed up you > weren't being DIR that day. More like pointing out that ones claims have to match ones actions. One can say they're X, but I fgure actions would be much more appropriate. Dennis > Lee > That's a rather convenient way to ensure your organization is never wrong. > Lucky for all of us, there are those that won't let something like this > slide. You can't claim to have the best answer for all diving, in all > conditions, and all situations, and then claim that when you screwed up you > weren't being DIR that day. BINGO!!!!! > > That's a rather convenient way to ensure your organization is never wrong. > > Lucky for all of us, there are those that won't let something like this [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > BINGO!!!!! Personally I figure that ones actions speak much louder thanwahtever claims someone makes. If one claims to be DIR, and yet engages in unsafe, inappropriate practices, are they DIR or not? :-) Dennis > Personally I figure that ones actions speak much louder thanwahtever claims > someone makes. > If one claims to be DIR, and yet engages in unsafe, inappropriate practices, > are they DIR or not? :-) Can we also extended this to the "Religious Right?" > > Personally I figure that ones actions speak much louder thanwahtever > claims [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Can we also extended this to the "Religious Right?" Yes, or the irreligious left, or the religious left, or pretty much anything else. Dennis > Can we also extended this to the "Religious Right?" Anyone stopping you and your cult from practicing whatever it is you practice? Anyone even give a sh.t? OK then. "Dennis (Icarus)" wrote > Personally I figure that ones actions speak much louder thanwahtever claims > someone makes. If one claims to be DIR, and yet engages in unsafe, inappropriate practices, > are they DIR or not? :-) If not, there there aren't and DIR divers anywhere. I used to have a post by George on his experience with a keel weight, where he talked about flopping around on the surface like a complete newbie and needing help from both his dive buddies to get back under control. Then there's the time he cut his drysuit open with a scooter prop . . . George says Scuba Pro regulators are sh.t as a primary. Jarrod uses them, at least he does in his fundamentals book. I figure DIR guys are pretty much like other guys, they make mistakes, don't pay enough attention to what they're doing on occasion and, when the insist on coming to a shallow water recreational dive in full kit, look like what they are, at that moment, being, strokes. YMMV. The biggest difference, as far as I can tell, is the amount of noise some generate and the lack of respect for others than they consistently demonstrate. Lee "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkmail@ever.invalid> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :If one claims to be DIR, and yet engages in unsafe, inappropriate practices, :are they DIR or not? :-) yes Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > "Dennis (Icarus)" wrote > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > conditions, and all situations, and then claim that when you screwed up you > weren't being DIR that day. That one doesn't pass the logic test. Was Jimmy Swaggert being a Christian when he was spanking his monkey in front of a hooker in a cheap motel room? I think that most people would say no. His actions that night have nothing to do with Christianity as a whole. But they do some something about Jimmy Swaggert! If somebody is or claims to be a DIR diver and then does something that goes against DIR, they at that point in time they are not a DIR diver. If somebody has always been a safe driver and never got behind the wheel when drunk, but then goes on a bender and kills 4 kids in a cross walk, does that reflect on the driver or what we call safe driving habits? If somebody wanted to prove that DIR was wrong, then they would need to find some situation where following the DIR tenents is less safe than doing it some other way. Here's one more. Rush Limbaugh in direct opposition to what he has talked about on the radio all these years is addicted to pain killers. Does that negate his message? On some level what he has done is criminal. Does that mean that conservatives as a group are criminals? Somebody's abilities (or inability) to follow their convictions has little to do with the validity of those convictions. Those convictions need to be examined on their own merits. Jane Fonda going to Hanoi during the Vietnam war does not mean that opposing the was was bad. Just as the Mai Lai massacre does not mean that American GI's as a group are bad, or that even being in the war was bad. You've got to look deeper. Kevin Metcalfe nslckevin@yahoo.com > If somebody is or claims to be a DIR diver and then does something > that goes against DIR, they at that point in time they are not a DIR > diver. How about if that somebody is, say George Irvine? By your rule, the very leaders of the DIR movement, are not DIR. You can't have it both ways. Lee > > "Dennis (Icarus)" wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > That one doesn't pass the logic test. (SNIP) But it results from the equally illogical position originally taken - at least on this newsgroup - that if you adopted the DIR mindset you would "never have to say you are sorry". > > "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<HvCrb.19250$Oo4.17001@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>... [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > least on this newsgroup - that if you adopted the DIR mindset you would > "never have to say you are sorry". And just who on rec.scuba was "able" to represent DIR, and implied any such thing? I don't believe I ever did. In all likelihood, it was someone like Mike Gray, having some fun with the NG. Regards, Dan V > And just who on rec.scuba was "able" to represent DIR, and implied any such > thing? I don't believe I ever did. In all likelihood, it was someone like Mike > Gray, having some fun with the NG. I can remember when you were pretty outspoken on the subject, but I don't think you were ever as bad as some. Pretty much everybody that used to post that way has left this group for more friendly waters, like techdiver or quest, placed where the DIR party line is the norm and dissention is not tolerated. Even at his worst, Mike could never do as much harm as the zealots did. Lee > > And just who on rec.scuba was "able" to represent DIR, and implied any > such [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Lee Without trying to dredge up thousands of old posts, what I used to "attempt" was to explain what DIR would mean in a specific situation, and usually in regard to very advanced recreational diving. Certainly my current position is that a recreational diver who is doing 50 foot deep dives, can have a long and happy dive life, almost no matter how poor their training is. It gets proven to me every weekend when I go out on charter boats. When divers start to do dives of 130feet deep to 170 feet deep, the DIR ideas become much more important. I don't recall ever saying anything similar to, "because I am DIR, I'll never have to say I'm sorry.." this just does not relate to any real DIR ideas---it relates more to Mike :-) Regards, Dan V > Certainly my current position > is that a recreational diver who is doing 50 foot deep dives, can have a > long and happy dive life, almost no matter how poor their training is. Back in the bad old days, it was not a training issue, it was almost entirely about equipment with a smattering of fitness discussions. Back then, there wasn't a DIR training organization. In the history of the subject, GUE is a very recent event. > I don't recall ever saying anything similar to, "because I am DIR, I'll > never have to say I'm sorry.." I don't recall your saying that either, but I do recall reading it, several times, in more than one forum. I do remember hearing you recommend keel weights, an idea whose time has not come . . . and probably never will. 8^) Know anybody that would like to have a Halcyon soft keel weight? 8^) > this just does not relate to any real DIR ideas---it relates more to Mike :-) Let us not forget that, just like the DIR side has moderated considerably over the years, Mike has moderated his stance as well. He didn't have a lot of choice. He dives with you and me often enough that he has to admit that at least some elements work. In my personal opinion, the strength of Mike's attack has always been proportional to the strength of the DIR position he was countering. I also can not forget that, once upon a time, for a relatively brief time, I was something of a DIR zealot myself, at least until I realized that the individual choices I made in modifying the configuration were the subject of very pointed criticism by those that thought they knew what was right for everybody else. When I realized that such things as a computer, a console, and no crotch strap made me a stroke too, transition to a position of individual choice that at least considers the DIR configuration options was easy. Lee {SNIP}> > I don't recall ever saying anything similar to, "because I am DIR, I'll > never have to say I'm sorry.." this just does not relate to any real DIR > ideas---it relates more to Mike :-) > > Regards, > Dan V Well - have you ever said you were sorry? :) :) > {SNIP}> > > I don't recall ever saying anything similar to, "because I am DIR, I'll [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > Well - have you ever said you were sorry? :) :) Hmmnnn...I am very sorry, every time I read one of Mike's posts :-) There, I said it. :-) Dan V >> {SNIP}> >> > I don't recall ever saying anything similar to, "because I am DIR, I'll [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Hmmnnn...I am very sorry, every time I read one of Mike's posts :-) There, > I said it. :-) If it weren't for me, you'd have no one to pick on. > >> {SNIP}> > >> > I don't recall ever saying anything similar to, "because I am DIR, I'll [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > If it weren't for me, you'd have no one to pick on. I thought the saying went more like..." If it wasn't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers.." :-) Regards, Dan V > And just who on rec.scuba was "able" to represent DIR, and implied any such > thing? > I don't believe I ever did. In all likelihood, it was someone like Mike > Gray,. . . Yer half right. <snip> > Does that mean that conservatives as a group are criminals? That's probably not the best question to ask around here... :-) C Guynn > I thought that if you were DIR, then you're a DIR diver. If you're doing > something non-DIR, then you aren't a DIR diver - no matter what they claim > they are, no matter how much Halcyon gear they have, no matter how many > classes they've taken from MHK or GUE. :-) That sounds like a cop-out to me. Dave. > > I thought that if you were DIR, then you're a DIR diver. If you're doing > > something non-DIR, then you aren't a DIR diver - no matter what they claim > > they are, no matter how much Halcyon gear they have, no matter how many > > classes they've taken from MHK or GUE. :-) > > > That sounds like a cop-out to me. Really? If one claims to be X, but acts in a manner contrary to that, then are they really X? Dennis > Dave. "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkmail@ever.invalid> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I thought that if you were DIR, then you're a DIR diver. If you're doing :something non-DIR, then you aren't a DIR diver - no matter what they claim :they are, no matter how much Halcyon gear they have, no matter how many :classes they've taken from MHK or GUE. :-) That pretty much sums it up. Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ >> Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your >> hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > say, not as I do . . . or, perhaps, because somebody that is DIR thought of > it, it's fine. When somebody else came up with it, it's crap. Morons are everywhere. You found some that fly the DIR flag, so what? > >> Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your > >> hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Morons are everywhere. You found some that fly the DIR flag, so what? So statements by those who were not there, about whether the described divers were DIR or not, have no significance. >> Morons are everywhere. You found some that fly the DIR flag, so what? > > So statements by those who were not there, about whether the described > divers were DIR or not, have no significance. Bullshark run across some bad divers. He recounted the story in witter manner and I got a few laughs out of it. Personally, that's where my concern ends. "Drew A. Dunn" <dad6b@nospam.alumni.virginia.edu> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Morons are everywhere. You found some that fly the DIR flag, so what? I agree. Finding morons that fly the DIR flag is so common that it's just no big deal. Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > "Drew A. Dunn" <dad6b@nospam.alumni.virginia.edu> pounded away at his > keyboard resulting in: > :Morons are everywhere. You found some that fly the DIR flag, so what? > > I agree. Finding morons that fly the DIR flag is so common that it's > just no big deal. finding morons that do not is easy too. > Dan Bracuk > If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- > > Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your > > hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Lee He said they were DIR divers, which they were not. He used this impression to make a blanket statement about DIR divers in general, which is based on the fact that he thought these divers were DIR, which they were not, by definition. >He said they were DIR divers, which they were not. He used this impression >to make a blanket statement about DIR divers in general, which is based on >the fact that he thought these divers were DIR, which they were not, by >definition. As to "facts about what I thought", forgive me, but you have no clue. I reported observations, not thoughts. As to whether or not these divers were DIR, you cannot say. You weren't there, you saw nothing and most importantly you did not ask the divers what *they* thought the answer was. It is not I who established the gang colors. "Buy a Beamer and drive like this..." "Clothes make the man..." (and my favorite quote from my favorite B-Law Prof) "It's a thin piece of paper that doesn't have two sides." safe diving, bullshark <snip> > (and my favorite quote from my favorite B-Law Prof) > "It's a thin piece of paper that doesn't have two sides." A Moebius <sp/> contract? C Guynn > > Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your > > hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Lee maybe their GUE card expired so they didn't have to be DIR anymore  Signature--Chandler -- May Hog be your boatman when you reach the River Styx > > > Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in your > > > hand for storage, improper carrying of doubles. That's not DIR, that much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > Lee If I am on a 40 foot deep dive in Boynton Beach, with Sandra, I will be wearing my gear, DIR style, but at best I will be DIR-L ....Sandra won't follow DIR guidelines when doing photography, and 40 foot dives are so easy that I can't bring myself to be anal about constant eye contact, and many of the other "imperatives" we use in DIR for dives which I consider to have "challenge" to them. If I do a 125 foot deep dive with Sandra, I will enforce her DIR behavior, and be very DIR myself. If we do a dive like the hydro, at 175 ft deep, and she is doing photography, then we will be diving a 3 man buddy team, since a photographer is at best a "dependant buddy", and can not be truly DIR and take decent pictures at the same time--there is not enough focus left on the camera subjects. For anything deeper or more challenging, Sandra would not be diving it, and I would be buddied with "real" DIR divers, who plan on following all of our pre-agreed on DIR behaviors. Part of the DIR mindset is that if you start cutting corners, you will--or may, get sloppy on the deeper more challenging dives, or at minimum, you will have less "practice" with pure DIR behavior and gear use. To the degree that challenging technical dives are a constant part of your diving, this issue can be important. If you will rarely dive deeper than 60 feet, the main values in DIR, are just the common sense parts of it, which have been gleamed from 40 years of diving---some of this you could even get from guys like Mike gray--the difference is, DIR just puts it in one place where you can grab all the common sense ideas together, and then use what you want. For 98% of rec.scuba participants, that's really all it should be about. The George bashing that Karl and others are enjoying, and the constant DIR slurs, are really just attacks at common sense---and it would seem that these guys just don't like common sense :-) Dan V > If I am on a 40 foot deep dive in Boynton Beach, with Sandra, I will be > wearing my gear, DIR style, but at best I will be DIR-L ....Sandra won't > follow DIR guidelines when doing photography, and 40 foot dives are so easy > that I can't bring myself to be anal about constant eye contact, and many of > the other "imperatives" we use in DIR for dives which I consider to have > "challenge" to them. If you could not be flexible enough to recognize that there is a place and time for strict rules and a place and time when something else may be more suitable, you would not have gained the acceptance here or on the boat that you have. > If I do a 125 foot deep dive with Sandra, I will enforce her DIR behavior . . . What you and Sandra do is up to you and Sandra. To be honest, I enforce rules on Jayna as well, but try to do it in ways she does not see as controlling. Generally speaking, however, I try to let her make her own mistakes. If I protect her from them all the time, she has no chance to learn from them and is that much more likely to be seriously hurt or die from one that I fail to protect her from. That's not to say that I don't watch her very carefully, but that I don't impose any more rules than I can help. She needs to be a responsible diver too. Photographers are rarely, if ever, particularly responsible, at least by DIR standards. > . . . and be very DIR myself. If we do a dive like the hydro, at 175 ft deep, > and she is doing photography, then we will be diving a 3 man buddy team, since a photographer is at best a "dependant buddy", and > can not be truly DIR and take decent pictures at the same time--there is not enough focus left on the camera subjects. I can't agree with you on this one. There's another option, but it requires a lot from you, perhaps more than you're ready or willing to give. As you note, a photographer tends to be a dependant buddy, but her buddy can be attentive enough to provide virtually the same level of protection for both divers that would otherwise be the case. If you're close enough, all the time, to reach out and take her regulator if you need it or provide one for her if she needs it, to monitor her gas, depth and times the same way she would if not preoccupied with her photography, things are, in my opinion, as good as they get. That's a lot to ask of a buddy. It only seems to work between people that care enough to sacrifice their enjoyment of the dive so that somebody else can enjoy their photography. I do not favor three man buddy teams. At best, somebody is not getting the attention they deserve. At worst, nobody is. If it's important to have a buddy, it is my opinion that it is important to have only one. If it's a shallow dive, as you note, who cares. When it's important, however, I just don't like the idea at all. > For anything deeper or more challenging, Sandra would not be diving it, and > I would be buddied with "real" DIR divers, who plan on following all of our > pre-agreed on DIR behaviors. If both of you are content with this, it's nobody's business but your own. Everybody has a range of risks they will or will not accept. Just like yours are higher than Sandra's, mine are higher than Jayna's. We're both fortunate enough to have somebody that will let us live our own, relatively higher risk lives, without trying to slow us down to a pace they find more to their liking. > Part of the DIR mindset is that if you start cutting corners, you will--or > may, get sloppy on the deeper more challenging dives, or at minimum, you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > want. For 98% of rec.scuba participants, that's really all it should be > about. The problem that many of us perceive is that learning the rules from soembody else does not provide the level of experience and judgement required to do the big dives safely. Jammer and I once had an on line battle which illustrates the point very well. He firmly believes in responding to the same risk, the same way, every time. He, and others who have preached DIR from a position that lacks real world experience, have actually condemned the idea of thinking your way out of problems. All this kind of learning accomplishes, in my opinion, is to make the inexperienced person think he's ready for the most advanced diving around while greatly increasing the chances that the first time a combination of problems occurs that he or she has not practiced, he or she will do exactly what they were taught, no matter how wrong it may be under the circumstances. Nothing can protect a diver from all risks, but a diver with the experience and knowledge of a wide range of potential problems and solutions has a much better chance of surviving the unexpected than somebody that only knows one way to skin the proverbial cat. > The George bashing that Karl and others are enjoying, and the constant DIR > slurs, are really just attacks at common sense---and it would seem that > these guys just don't like common sense :-) Depends on your perception of the issues. George blew me out of the water when I gave advice on neutral buoyant tanks. He didn't add a bit of information on his own. He simply claimed my ideas were bullshit despite the fact that I dive those tanks every day and, to the best of my knowledge, he's never used them. There's no logic or common sense in something like that. It's pure ego and that is something that a lot of us have been critical of. Lee The guy simply knows youre wrong thats all > > If I am on a 40 foot deep dive in Boynton Beach, with Sandra, I will be > > wearing my gear, DIR style, but at best I will be DIR-L ....Sandra won't [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > > Lee > If you will rarely dive deeper than 60 feet, > the main values in DIR, are just the common sense parts of it, which have > been gleamed from 40 years of diving---some of this you could even get from > guys like Mike gray--the difference is, DIR just puts it in one place where > you can grab all the common sense ideas together, and then use what you > want. Or, in other words, grab all the DIR ideas in one place and throw out the ones that don't make any sense. Which is pretty much what is done with any smorgasbord of ideas. Can ya imagine swedish meatballs being a required dietary staple??? Although I am not DIR I took the DIR principles course just to get used to the gear and learn something new, I decided that my spearfishing would certainly benefit from some of the DIR principles. As you very well posted, I could not agree with you more about the slurs and bashing of some folks who have done a lot more for diving than these bashers ever will. Its like I said before, they feel better by belittling those that are above them in all aspects. > > > > Improper entries, spears, wetsuit with steel tanks, holding spools in > your [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Dan V "Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :If I am on a 40 foot deep dive in Boynton Beach, with Sandra, I will be :wearing my gear, DIR style, but at best I will be DIR-L .... Welcome to Team Stroke, Dan. Good to have you aboard. Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > "Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dan Bracuk I knew you were vicious :-) Dan V > If I do a 125 foot deep dive with Sandra, I will > enforce her DIR behavior, Dan, I will buy a ticket to watch you or anyone else try to "enforce" any kind of behavior by Sandra ;-) al > > If I do a 125 foot deep dive with Sandra, I will > > enforce her DIR behavior, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > al UUHHH. hmmnnn. When I ask her nicely, for a dive like this, she will usually agree to do exactly as she wants :-) Luckily, she is willing to take a 125 foot dive seriously enough so that I can stay near her at all times ( on a 40 foot dive in Boynton, if I look away for 15 seconds to watch a cobia, when I look back at where she had been, she could easily have vanished). On a 120 foot dive, she won't act in this manner any longer, and of course, I am more careful not to look away :-) Regards, Dan V > UUHHH. hmmnnn. When I ask her nicely, for a dive like this, she will usually > agree to do exactly as she wants :-) That sounds more like the Sandra I met. I still remember the look of horror on your face when she tried on Barb's Xena BC and said she liked it :-) > Luckily, she is willing to take a 125 foot dive seriously enough so that I > can stay near her at all times ( on a 40 foot dive in Boynton, if I look > away for 15 seconds to watch a cobia, when I look back at where she had > been, she could easily have vanished). > On a 120 foot dive, she won't act in this manner any longer, and of course, > I am more careful not to look away :-) LOL Cindy just got a really nice digital camera setup, and I find that I have to pay twice as much attention because she is sometimes paying none. Her housing is only good to 150, so I don't have to worry yet on the deeper dives. She has been an excellent dive buddy so far (gas trained by Mikey Rodriguez), except for a few days right after she bought Steve Berman's 18W HID and became engrossed with things in the caves she had never seen before. I've learned a few things from some real pros about serious diving with photographers and archaeologists (and still have much to learn), and I guess I'll have to be in "teacher mode" for a bit. Hope to see you on the next trip down, not yet sure when that will be though. al > > UUHHH. hmmnnn. When I ask her nicely, for a dive like this, she will usually > > agree to do exactly as she wants :-) [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > al Just make sure you "warn me" when your down here next time :-) Regards, Dan V > We were invaded. Not one, but five divers from the dark side. <snip> Come on, you sound like Bush claiming Saddam is al-Qaida. These guys weren't DIR. "Blue camo wetsuit?" Since when is any other color than black permitted? "Hyperventilating?" Doesn't sound like they were in good shape. If you don't want 'em on your boat, do what we do out here: spear fishing is only permitted when free diving. That takes care of the safety issues too. LOL suds A few years ago I was in Cozumel, a cattle boat dive, there was this one loud American bragging that he was a PADI Dive Master <fanfare>. We all drop off the boat to meet the local divemaster below and what do I see? The PADI Dive Master <fan fare> bi**h slapping the coral with his fins! Yup - you nailed the buoyancy issue buddy, it should take a few hundred years to undo the damage you just did. Lesson learned....you can't judge all divers by the arrogance shown by some, come on people - you know better! DIR = Doing It Right and isn't that what we all should be trying to do? By the way Bullshark...I loved your story, well told. 'Tanks' for the giggles! Ladygodiver > > We were invaded. Not one, but five divers from the dark side. > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > suds > DIR divers are very impressive. The impression is indelible. Beautiful! I just pee'd all over my neoprene cammy house slippers. Dave. Well, well, well, I just had to make an appearance here in order to clarify and at the same time make a few points of my own. There is nothing like having an opinion with nobody to rebut it is there BULLSHARK? Or is it Bullshit! With that said, I am the (sissy) in the blue camo suit and I definitely want to address your comments. I will start off by saying that if youre not man enough to say something on the boat that youre not pleased with, then youre not a real man and maybe the sissy comment really applies to you. I am NOT DIR never have been and never will be. I am however a serious hunter and that is something I am very proud of. In reading your post I found lots of embellishing which is typical of people like you. Here goes...... 1. I dive steel tanks and wear a camo wetsuit. If you understood anything about spearfishing, you would know that the camo suit breaks up your profile in the water and therefore is more of a fish attractor than a disguise. But then again, when hunters go hunting you always see them wear what???? CAMO you JERK! Because I have been spearfishing since I was 7 and have 32 tournament wins under my belt in freediving, I would not expect you to understand this. However, I encourage you to talk to excel, picasso, omer and other companies who specialize in spearfishing and they may be better able to explain to you why a camo suit works. I will not omit the opportunity to say that I at least look pretty damn good in my camo suit while if you are the guy who I think you are, you really would not look good in any wetsuit being the fat manatee looking creature that you are. By the way, I hear GOOD YEAR makes a suit that may fit you. 2. You spoke about some of my friends using HID lights. Any problem with that??? They were looking for lobster you idiot. Dont be upset just because you cant afford a $1,500 light. You need to LIGHTEN UP! 3. Are you sure you are a diver and not a relative of Siskel the critic? My you have incredible observation skills. You even noticed a guy talking on the phone 15 minutes before leave time. Is this a problem for you??? The guy is a Doctor for the VA and a very good one I might add. He was on the phone with the hospital, his girlfriend was on the phone too, she is the same as he is! But that you would notice such uneventful things makes me think you are a very grouchy and unhappy human being. 4.You also mention affective weight distribution and how the guy in the camo suit with his multi pocket wetsuit and cinch the crotch strap just below my sternum. ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR wrong fatso. Como suits dont have pockets, I dont need a weight belt and I always have my belt waist high so I can attach my stringer to it. The difference with you and I is that I have pictures in full gear, I have pictures under water and I have videos of myself diving. I will gladly post them to see how much critiquing you can do then. You are just a flat out liar and doing it without me present makes me want to put my stringer through your eyes, sorry your head is to fat and would not fit on my stringer so I take that back. However, I am willing to post anything that anyone here may want to see regarding how I wear my rig. I do use halcyon not because I am DIR you idiot but because the hose configuration and backplate is very streamline and helps me with my spearfishing. I have no hoses or consoles hanging all over the place like you do. I simply wear a backplate, no weight, my suit, fins and mask. My computer is on my arm therefore what the hell is it your talking about extra equipment ???? Please manatee man go get a haircut. 5.You also mention a buddy of mine who did have a speargun which you claim was over 5 feet long! It is only a riffe gun wiht 3 bands which are very popular for those that can afford it. As for your comments about him leaving his finger spool behind, let me just tell you the reality of that situation. The boat had dive flags with those crappy yellow line holders and he simply did what he always does on a good boat, he did not want to mess with the yellow hanger and so he intended to attach his spool to the flag and use that instead. He would take that and clip it to his d ring. Only one problem, the dive flag is such a piece of work that there is no way to attach his line to it so he laid his spool down and was forced to use the yellow line holder which of course youre very comfy with. Yes, he may have left it behind and had it handed to him. He is an excellent diver and on the way down he probably stuck it in his pocket. he doesnt carry a spool on a dring unless hes using it JERKY. About the rest of your comments and the other friends that were there, I will leave it up to them to either address you or ignore you. At this point I think they will probably ignore you, and by the way, the guy saying he had the dive tables in his head really does have the tables in his head, yeah hes the doctor who was on the phone too. You on the other hand need your little puter to tell you what to do as most of us do. He can dive and does dive without one because he does have it all in his head. Then again, he is a doctor, you know? A person used to harder things than rememebering a dive table. Finally and this is the fun part, you admitted I got a nice hog!!!! You call that a nice hog???? I call that a piece of garbage. I was not displaying it in the center of the boat I was trying to see if the boat had a cooler you idiot. There was none so I did not dispose of the fish until the guy next to me told me it was ok to put the fish in his lobster bucket. Whenver you shoot a fish, you string him through the eyes and keep him alive as long as possible unless there is ice to put him in. what would you have me do, put him in your a.s??? That would have killed him instantly. Most dive operations have a place to store fish and I was asking if they had one or not. Displaying my nice hog is what you wrote. Pal, if you ever want to see nice fish, come dive with me or let me email you some pictures of real fish. Matter of fact, I gave the "NICE" hog away because he was too small for my taste and by the way, I did not know the resident bullshark is yours and only yours. However, I have dealt with many bulls, tigers, dusky, reef and blues in 33 years of diving, theres not a whole hell of a lot that bull can ever do to scare me. Especially when I carry a powerhead. Like I said before, I am not and never will be DIR I am simply an avid spearfisherman and unlike you, I can prove what I claim. I dont need weights because I have perfect trim and bouyancy. I am not like you who needs 20 pounds of lead. I wear a camo suit because like thousands of other spearfishermen who are serious about it will tell you, it simply works. Now if that makes me a sissy, all I cna respond to that is this.... Introduce me to your wife and let her come back if she decides to come back to you and she will tell you whether I am a sissy or not. Finally, I do have a big speargun and you know what? I am so proud of that gun because it was hand made by a legend in the sport of spearfishing who's name is william Kitto. I also have guns that are hand crafted by the likes of Daryl Wong who is also a personal friend of mine and another legend in the spearfishing sport. Now, if any of the readers are interested, I can ask daryl wong himself to explain the differences of a stupid biller gun and a hand made, enlclosed track balanced gun. Dont blame me for having the right equipment which you have never seen. Worse yet, dont criticise someone you dont know without giving them the opportunity to defend themselves from your lies. In reading your post, the one glaring thing that just jumps out at me is this... You are not a man because you lie about things in order to make yourself look better. You criticize everyone which means you have serious inner self esteem issues and finally, you just are an envious human being who has no balls and no spine. If you did, you would have responded to the private email i sent you along with pictures of real fish. With this said, I dare you to respond, I further dare you to meet me and call me a sissy but remember to bring your wife and I also dare you to be a man and apologize. Any of those options works for me. I dont know about your wife though, if you are who you think you are, your wife needs a brromstick instead of a tank. Why dont you choose and option fat man, stop trying to look younger by dying that brillo pad you call hair and cut the little pony tail, that went out years ago. See, theres always two sides to every story. Now its all up to you how this ends up. I know you go to fill express all the time and I know who you are so let me just tell you that when I see you I will humiliate you. No matter what. If you bother me too much I will also slap your wife's face with my ding dong. I also invite anyone that goes to fill express to look at their photo album and see my spearfishing pictures. I walk the walk and back it up. I promise you fat boy I will embarass you and bring out the real you in front of others no matter what I do!!! Enough said....any comments??? (snip ranting and raving and threats of sexual abuse) Well, you proved he was right about you being some kind of ijit. Well, thanks for the compliment my man!!! great spelling I love it when a drunk tries to taunt me! > (snip ranting and raving and threats of sexual abuse) > > Well, you proved he was right about you being some kind of ijit. > Well, thanks for the compliment my man!!! great spelling I love it when a > drunk tries to taunt me! > > > (snip ranting and raving and threats of sexual abuse) > > > > Well, you proved he was right about you being some kind of ijit. I was wondering who and when someone would take Blacks place as the village idiot, and now we have two. Brewster and action. > > (snip ranting and raving and threats of sexual abuse) > > > > Well, you proved he was right about you being some kind of ijit. > > Well, thanks for the compliment my man!!! great spelling I love it when a > drunk tries to taunt me! Stupid top post shifted to where it should go. And you really don't get sarcasm do you? geeze, you must be as thick as two short planks. rhys > > > (snip ranting and raving and threats of sexual abuse) > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And you really don't get sarcasm do you? geeze, you must be as thick as two > short planks. Not to mention that he's the second guy this week to get me wrong. You man, is a woman. If you'd bothered to look around a bit before shooting your mouth off here, you might have known that. SignatureThe latest survey shows that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the population. - - > Well, thanks for the compliment my man!!! great spelling I love it when a > drunk tries to taunt me! > > > (snip ranting and raving and threats of sexual abuse) > > > > Well, you proved he was right about you being some kind of ijit. > You man, is a woman. If you'd bothered to look around a bit before shooting > your mouth off here, you might have known that. Not to mention the fact that he thinks I unintentionally mispelled "idiot". What an ijit is this blue cammo wearing child. Myself, I've found that I can sneak up on fish without wearing cammo. > Myself, I've found that I can sneak up on fish without wearing cammo. This conjures up some great "Far Side" cartoon visual imagery... Thanks! Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand Five years, two months, three weeks, one day, 12 hours, 56 minutes and 0 seconds. 57286 cigarettes not smoked, saving $17,185.85. Time used for a better purpose: 28 weeks, 2 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes. Signature"The voyage of discovery lies not in seeking new horizons, but in seeing with new eyes." - Marcel Proust > > Myself, I've found that I can sneak up on fish without wearing cammo. > > This conjures up some great "Far Side" cartoon visual imagery... Thanks! I thought you said you didn't read these kinds of threads? Regardless, let me just say that about that . . . You're welcome. :^) > Not to mention the fact that he thinks I unintentionally mispelled "idiot". > What an ijit is this blue cammo wearing child. > Myself, I've found that I can sneak up on fish without wearing cammo. Well that part is true about JC... but I actually enjoyed thinking that you were a guy at one point. LMAO !! > Well, thanks for the compliment my man!!! great spelling I love it when a > drunk tries to taunt me! > > > (snip ranting and raving and threats of sexual abuse) > > > > Well, you proved he was right about you being some kind of ijit. thus proving what an idjit you really are. -- An amateur built the ark ....professionals built the Titanic. > Well, well, well, I just had to make an appearance here in order to > clarify and at the same time make a few points of my own. You points would carry more weight if they came with a name. Funny you would consider somebody else a sissy while hiding behind an anonymous address. > . . . if you are the guy who I think you are, you really would not look good in any wetsuit being the > fat manatee looking creature that you are. By the way, I hear GOOD > YEAR makes a suit that may fit you. Nope, wrong guy. bullshark is not fat. > 2. You spoke about some of my friends using HID lights. Any problem > with that??? They were looking for lobster you idiot. Dont be upset > just because you cant afford a $1,500 light. You need to LIGHTEN UP! I have a problem with it. It's what is known as "farm animal stupid." You've heard that term before, right? Why would anybody carry something that large just to look in a few holes in clear daylit water. > Are you sure you are a diver and not a relative of Siskel the > critic? I'm sure he's a diver. > You even noticed a guy talking on the phone 15 minutes before leave time. Is this a > problem for you??? It is when the boat is held up for that person. > Como suits dont have pockets , , , Some do, some don't. > I will gladly post them to see how much critiquing you can do then. Go for it . . . if you dare. > I do use halcyon not because I am DIR you idiot but because the hose > configuration and backplate is very streamline and helps me with my > spearfishing. I have no hoses or consoles hanging all over the place > like you do. Wrong guy again. bullshark is quite squared away when diving. > He would take that and clip it to his d ring. He was going to attach his line to the flag and then clip it off to one of his D rings? Not a great idea in S. Florida where the number of boat operators outnumbers the number of competent captains by about 5 to 1. > Only one problem, the dive flag is such a piece of work that there is no way to attach his line > to it so he laid his spool down and was forced to use the yellow line > holder which of course youre very comfy with. You mean the one that several thousand divers a year have no problem with? > Finally and this is the fun part, you admitted I got a nice hog!!!! > You call that a nice hog???? I call that a piece of garbage. I was not > displaying it in the center of the boat I was trying to see if the > boat had a cooler you idiot. As one spearfisherman to another, I just have to ask. If it was such a piece of garbage, why did you kill it? I don't know how big the fish was, but if it was like most I see in near shore waters, it wasn't particularly big, probably less than 2 feet. Too bad you didn't let it live to grow bigger. It might have made a nice dinner for somebody, some day. > Whenver you shoot a fish, you string him through > the eyes and keep him alive as long as possible unless there is ice to > put him in. I string them through the eyes too, but not to keep them alive. When the stringer goes through, the fish quits struggling. I have enough problem with sharks while spearfishing without having a convulsing fish attached to me too. > Matter of fact, I gave the "NICE" hog away because he was too small for my taste So you killed two small hogs? > However, I have dealt with many bulls, tigers, dusky, reef > and blues in 33 years of diving, theres not a whole hell of a lot that > bull can ever do to scare me. Then you really are farm animal stupid. > Introduce me to your wife and let her come back if she > decides to come back to you and she will tell you whether I am a sissy > or not. She's probably a better diver than you as well. > Worse yet, dont criticise someone you dont know > without giving them the opportunity to defend themselves from your > lies. Seems to me, you had plenty of opportunity, even if you aren't brave enough to put your name to it. Lee I would not waste my tame writing to your absurd comments. The only thing I can say is your obviously not a good diver and a definite a.s kisser. but one thing little man, i never hide my name is JC and you can call me or email me and lets compare notes or do I have to slap your face with my dick too. Why would you go and try to make some bullshit up if you were not there prick! camo suits with pockets????? LOL LOL LO LLOL LOL shea right!!!! youre a spearfisherman???? show me some fish lets exchange notes honest come on be a man. > > Well, well, well, I just had to make an appearance here in order to > > clarify and at the same time make a few points of my own. [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > > Lee > I would not waste my tame writing to your absurd comments. Besides being an ignorant punk, you're a liar too. > youre a spearfisherman???? show me some fish lets exchange notes honest come > on be a man You are a man?! You act like a child. Ya got your dick out so much you probably need those pockets. Its detachable, right? top posted because what follows ain't worth reading > I would not waste my tame writing to your absurd comments. The only thing I > can say is your obviously not a good diver and a definite a.s kisser. but [quoted text clipped - 117 lines] > > > > Lee Signature--Chandler -- May Hog be your boatman when you reach the River Styx > I would not waste my tame writing to your absurd comments. The only thing I > can say is your obviously not a good diver and a definite a.s kisser. but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > prick! > camo suits with pockets????? LOL LOL LO LLOL LOL shea right!!!! ___________________ /| /| | | ||__|| | Please do | / O O\__ NOT | / \ feed the | / \ \ the trolls | / _ \ \ _______________| / |\____\ \ || / | | | |\____/ || / \|_|_|/ | __|| / / \ |____| || / | | /| | --| | | |// |____ --| * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/ *-- _--\ _ \ // | / _ \\ _ // | / * / \_ /- | - | | * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________ (Keith Lawrence, 1999) > youre a spearfisherman???? show me some fish lets exchange notes honest come > on be a man. [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > > > > Lee -- Lee Bell, CID > I would not waste my tame writing to your absurd comments. The only thing I > can say is your obviously not a good diver and a definite a.s kisser. but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > youre a spearfisherman???? show me some fish lets exchange notes honest come > on be a man. OK, you got your picture. Your turn. Lee > I would not waste my tame writing to your absurd comments. The only thing I > can say is your obviously not a good diver and a definite a.s kisser. but > one thing little man, i never hide my name is JC and you can call me or > email me and lets compare notes or do I have to slap your face with my dick > too. Why would you go and try to make some bullshit up if you were not there > prick! Please keep your homoerotic fantasies off the group. Thanks, Dennis > Please keep your homoerotic fantasies off the group. Maybe he want's to get married. It has been known to work, you know... Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? Please keep your homoerotic fantasies off the group. > > Maybe he want's to get married. > > It has been known to work, you know... (-; K~ > ? Please keep your homoerotic fantasies off the group. > > Maybe he want's to get married. > > It has been known to work, you know... Maybe, but the two are not comparable. :-) Dennis "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <nojunkmail@ever.invalid> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Maybe, but the two are not comparable. :-) What two? Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > Why would anybody carry something > that large just to look in a few holes in > clear daylit water. Well, Lee, being from the south, you're surely familiar with the hunting term / endeavor practiced by certain people called "spotlighting", right? He we just spotlighting bugs... <grin> > Being from the south, you're surely familiar with the hunting > term / endeavor practiced by certain people called "spotlighting", right? > He we just spotlighting bugs... <grin> I'm familiar with the term, but it's normally done at night and does not involve lights powerful enough to cook the prey on the spot. Lee >> Being from the south, you're surely familiar with the hunting >> term / endeavor practiced by certain people called "spotlighting", right? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Lee Hey! It's the modern age. You can now have takeout lobster delivered steaming to your dive boat. JF "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." - Andrew Jackson (1767-1845) On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:20:26 GMT, "Lee Bell" >I'm familiar with the term, but it's normally done at night and does not >involve lights powerful enough to cook the prey on the spot. Perhaps he's perfected a way to cook 'em and eat 'em without surfacing? Those damn geothermal vents just never are around when you need 'em... jcaction@bellsouth.net (JCACTION) wrote in message > Enough said....any comments??? Do you really wear a cammo wetsuit? Dork! -- Submergo ergo sum Well Jerome, I am a dork????? Coming from someone with this kind of keen insight, I feel complimented. > jcaction@bellsouth.net (JCACTION) wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > Submergo ergo sum > Well Jerome, I am a dork????? Coming from someone with this kind of keen > insight, I feel complimented. Life, no parole. <plonk> I have never in my life seen a more backwards bunch of rednecks scumsucking tobacco chewing inbreeding bunch of loosers in my life. We shall see what happens when I meet up with the little bitch bullshark or should i say again bullshit at fill express. he will only come and make a public apology to me and thats all that i will accept. as for the rest of you, my beef is not with you, i dont know any of you but from your comments without any basis, my above confirmation is clearly correct. MR. Bullshark and I WILL meet and I guess he knows by now that if he doesnt get a haircut by the time i see him, I will scalp his old raggedy fat bitch a.s just to prove to you boys theres a new sherriff in town and his name is JCACTION so any of you wishing to make comments, feel free to contact me directly and I WILL COME GET YOU face to face and we can further discuss your ideas about me or any of my friends.....Lets see, who wants to go first??? somebody give me a reason to beat the living f.ck out of you!!!! Please please someone gimme a call!!!! Bullshit, I will see you soon my man, and please shave your wifes back for me, i dont want hair all over me after I tap that AZZ! > > Well Jerome, I am a dork????? Coming from someone with this kind of keen > > insight, I feel complimented. > > Life, no parole. > > <plonk> > Bullshit, I will see you soon my man, and please shave your wifes back for > me, i dont want hair all over me after I tap that AZZ! If I didn't see Hog dead with my own very eyes --- I would think this was a sockpuppet of his.... And I know he can't be reincarnated so quickly. ...looking over at the |
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