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Scuba Forum / General / February 2005Canada Tank Valves
Does Canada use the same threads on their SCUBA tank valves as the US does? Or do they use the M25-2 thread like Europe? I need to find a replacement valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be rather overpriced... Yes. Same as US. > Does Canada use the same threads on their SCUBA tank valves as the US > does? > Or do they use the M25-2 thread like Europe? I need to find a replacement > valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be > rather overpriced... We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still live in igloos. It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really. > Yes. Same as US. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be >> rather overpriced... >We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still live >in igloos. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>> valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be >>> rather overpriced... Hey Firewalker, don't be a jerk. It was a fair question. We use the metric system like Europe does. It could have been possible that we use Euro tank fittings as well. Asking which standard we use is hardly an insult to your igloo. Cam > It could have been possible that we > use Euro tank fittings as well. Asking > which standard we use is hardly > an insult to your igloo. Correct... Asking if it was required that all regulators in Canada be certified for ice diving and tanks have polar bear exclusion devices on them might be though... <grin> Strange that Canada would embrace the metric system in apparently everything else and still have tanks that were in English units... I guess it's kind of like working on American cars these days... It's not good enough to have a full set of SAE wrenches, you sometimes come across metric bolts also... And for everything else, there's always the adjustable end wrench or a pair of vise grips... <grin> >> It could have been possible that we >> use Euro tank fittings as well. Asking [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >for everything else, there's always the adjustable end wrench or a pair of >vise grips... <grin> Just last week I needed a pair of metric vise grips to adjust my muffler bearings. > Just last week I needed a pair of metric vise grips to adjust my > muffler bearings. Awh, hell, those are *easy* to find... Try finding a squeegee sharpener... >From: Cam cam.barr@beer.com >Date: 1/29/2005 2:31 PM Central Standard Time >Message-id: >Just last week I needed a pair of metric vise grips to adjust my >muffler bearings. Left or right handed? Get the carbon fiber muffler bearings and you will never need to adjust them. I put a set in my Honda CR500 and now I never have to tighten the powerband. >>From: Cam cam.barr@beer.com >>Date: 1/29/2005 2:31 PM Central Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I put a set in my Honda CR500 and now I never have to tighten the powerband. Lucky to have a stereo on yer bike. JF > We also have running water But that is only during the warm months when your igloos are melting, right? <grin> > It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about > Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really. Awh, come on now, is it so odd that someone wouldn't know which valve thread was being used in Canada? You use the metric system, right? Your temperatures are quoted in Celcius and your distances in kilometers... There was definitely a chance that perhaps you were using the M25x2 threads on tanks instead of the 3/4"-14 NPSM threads... Hell, most divers probably don't even know what type threads are on their valves... >> We also have running water > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > tanks instead of the 3/4"-14 NPSM threads... Hell, most divers probably > don't even know what type threads are on their valves... - And the result of not knowing this have been the cause of several accidents during the last years of people that have put M25x2 valves into R3/4" thread-bottles (it is possible) but the valve will leave the bottle if the tank pressure exceeds 180BAR's and above.  SignatureBest regards Divepartner Diving School & rubber dinghy workshop Dag Deberitz dagbritzDELETE@online.no Stavern - Norway Dive-o-phone": (+47) 922 35777 Visit my albums containing diving, travelling cats & others: http://community.webshots.com/user/busdiver_/ Concerning older faulty aluminium alloys in diving tanks: http://www.scubabomb.freeservers.com/Scubadag.htm \!/ (@ @) ----oOO-(_)-OOo------------OOOO0000oooo...._([;]@-[=< All evt. enclosures and the mailbody itself are scanned with the latest update of Trend Micro(Tm) PC-cillin(Tm) Internet Security11 > - And the result of not knowing this have been the cause of several > accidents during the last years of people that have put M25x2 valves into > R3/4" thread-bottles (it is possible) but the valve will leave the bottle > if the tank pressure exceeds 180BAR's and above. That's why we always use a separate igloo for filling tanks. In case of an accident, the flying valve bounces harmlessly from ice block to ice block. > - And the result of not knowing this have been the cause of several > accidents during the last years of people that have put M25x2 valves into > R3/4" thread-bottles (it is possible) but the valve will leave the bottle if > the tank pressure exceeds 180BAR's and above. Good enough for the old low pressure steel 72s, I guess then... <grin> I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit very nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it seems that the thread pitch between the M25x2 and the 3/4"x14 are pretty damned close to each other... Of course, the 3/4"-14 valves will not even start to screw into the M25 cylinder... So, technically, the M25 cylinder *could* be tapped out to accept the 3/4"-14 valve, but since that would be decreasing the neck thickness on the tank (ever so slightly), one would have to wonder if this might unacceptably weaken it... Personally, I'm not all that crazy about that idea... Even less crazy about it than just putting an adapter in each of the tanks and using normal 3/4"-14 valves... Any of you Euro rec.scuba readers know of a Spiro 200 or 232 bar modular valve (preferrably with the knob on the right when facing the valve opening) for sale? The isolation bar would also be nice to have... Here's a photo of my valve... I have one good one and one dented one, but they're both lefthanded valves like in the photo... http://webpages.charter.net/grumman581/spiro-valve-before-shipment.jpg One thing that I noticed is that the Spiro valve is marked as 200 bar, but the tanks are marked as 230 bar... > I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit very > nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it seems > that the thread pitch between the M25x2 and the 3/4"x14 are pretty damned > close to each other... Yep. Unfortunate for some, it will/can bind up to a pressure of 150 bar. > Any of you Euro rec.scuba readers know of a Spiro 200 or 232 bar modular > valve (preferrably with the knob on the right when facing the valve opening) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://webpages.charter.net/grumman581/spiro-valve-before-shipment.jpg They come in lefthand and righthand, one has lefthand threads, one righthand ones to the isolation bar. These should be M16x1 threads, old ones with one, newer ones with 2 barrel O-rings on each side. > One thing that I noticed is that the Spiro valve is marked as 200 bar, but > the tanks are marked as 230 bar... Don't worry... So you need these valve/manifold with metric or BSP threads? Matthias > I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit very > nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it seems [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > about that idea... Even less crazy about it than just putting an adapter in > each of the tanks and using normal 3/4"-14 valves... You scare the sh.t out of me when you talk like that. I'll send you dimensions for both when I get home from work, or post them here if you like. See if you can catch me at around 10:00 my time, or I'll try and call your cell, if the madness is at a low rumble today and I manage to remember. > You scare the sh.t out of me when you talk like that. I'm just pointing out the various theoretical options even if they are ones that I would not consider... It helps prevent people asking if I had considered a particular option that I might have already considered and dismissed... As far as the adapter goes, I've actually seen an old steel tank that had an adapter in it that converted it to something for a normal valve... I seem to remember that it was a 1959 stamped tank and the adapter looked like it converted from a tapered thread to a straight pipe thread like we use on tanks these days... I seriously doubt that this adapter was removed that often... Actually, the adapter was brass / bronze... The adapter that I had made for the hydro test probably added an inch to the height of the tank neck... It would work, but the debris tube would not be able to be used since the hole in the adapter is at the center and the hole in the valve for the debris tube is off-center... I'm just not all that crazy about adding another O-ring into the system as a possible (although probably highly unlikely) failure point... > I'll send you dimensions for both when I get home from work, or post > them here if you like. Yeah, it would be interesting to see how close the threads on the two valves really are... I just screwed them in finger tight -- just to the point where the slightest bit of resistance was being felt... I didn't want to damage the threads of either the old steel-72 or the FedEx damaged valve since it was going to have to go back into the steel-120 until I can find a replacement valve... > See if you can catch me at around 10:00 my time, or I'll try and call > your cell, if the madness is at a low rumble today and I manage to > remember. Thanks to a project and paper that Kaitlyn had due for school today, I've been up all night acting as editor for her paper... It was *supposed* to have been a fairly short paper -- she wrote a fuckin' book! My sleep schedule is now totally f.cked... I trying to decide if I should just try to stay awake for the rest of the day or crash out before I walk into a wall... Right now, I don't think I'll be up for another 4 hours though... > As far as the adapter goes, I've actually seen an old steel tank that had an > adapter in it that converted it to something for a normal valve... I seem to > remember that it was a 1959 stamped tank and the adapter looked like it > converted from a tapered thread to a straight pipe thread like we use on > tanks these days... I seriously doubt that this adapter was removed that > often... Actually, the adapter was brass / bronze... I don't know the proper thread designations, but the war surplus high pressure tanks came in 38 cf, 60 cf, or 90 cf, all at 1800 psi. The 90s were used with a plumber’s fitting, I think to reduce the one inch straight thread to a half-inch tapered thread, same as the Aqua Lung J or K valve. Is that right? The smaller tanks were usually doubled with a manifold connecting the original valves. m > I don't know the proper thread designations, but the war surplus > high pressure tanks came in 38 cf, 60 cf, or 90 cf, all at 1800 > psi. The 90s were used with a plumber?s fitting, I think to > reduce the one inch straight thread to a half-inch tapered > thread, same as the Aqua Lung J or K valve. Is that right? 1800 psi sounds about right... I remember noticing that it was a bit less than the service pressure rating on my steel-72s... I have no idea what the actual threads were though... I just saw it and thought that it was an interesting bit of dive history... I believe the tank was still in hydro... >From: "Grumman-581" grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net >Date: 2/1/2005 7:58 AM Central Standard Time >As far as the adapter goes, I've actually seen an old steel tank that had an >adapter in it that converted it to something for a normal valve... I seem to >remember that it was a 1959 stamped tank and the adapter looked like it >converted from a tapered thread to a straight pipe thread like we use on >tanks these days... I seriously doubt that this adapter was removed that >often... Actually, the adapter was brass / bronze... One of my o2 bottles has an original hydro of '54. 1/2" FNPT on that one. It doesn't see more than 1500 psi for damn sure. It was kinda neat having to put teflon tape on the valve when I put it back on after VIP. Ron White Owner, The Cave Connection > I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit very > nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it seems > that the thread pitch between the M25x2 and the 3/4"x14 are pretty damned > close to each other... The owner of a dive shop in cave country was seriously injured filling a M25X2 tank with a 3/4" NPSM valve in it in 1996. y'all need to be careful with this stuff... > The owner of a dive shop in cave country was seriously injured filling a > M25X2 tank with a 3/4" NPSM valve in it in 1996. You sure it wasn't the other way around? When I tried it out the other day, the M25x2 valve would fit nicely into the 3/4"-14 tank, but the 3/4"-14 valve would not even start screwing into the M25x2 tank... > y'all need to be careful with this stuff... Agreed... No one is proposing actually doing this on filled tanks, it's just a discussion of the similarity of the threads... A 1 lb or so object propelled by 2000+ psi could do some damage...I wouldn't want to be standing over the tank during that fill... > You sure it wasn't the other way around? When I tried it out the other day, > the M25x2 valve would fit nicely into the 3/4"-14 tank, but the 3/4"-14 > valve would not even start screwing into the M25x2 tank... Probably was, I only remember it involved the M25 and 3/4" threads > Probably was, I only remember it involved the M25 and > 3/4" threads Yep, a dangerous combination one way, a total non-issue the other way... The 3/4"-14 valve will not even start in the M25 tank neck... Can't even get a single thread to catch, so I would have to call it a non-issue... > > Probably was, I only remember it involved the M25 and > > 3/4" threads > > Yep, a dangerous combination one way, a total non-issue the other way... The > 3/4"-14 valve will not even start in the M25 tank neck... Can't even get a > single thread to catch, so I would have to call it a non-issue... f.ck. I spaced getting the thread specs. Tomorrow. Maybe. > We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still > live in igloos. > > It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about > Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really. Soooooooooo........the blocks on your igloos are cubic yards or cubic meters?? >> We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still >> live in igloos. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Soooooooooo........the blocks on your igloos are cubic yards or cubic >meters?? You measure volume in liters. Or litres, as the Brits are want to say. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman |
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