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Scuba Forum / General / January 2005SPGs for stages / sidemount tanks
Just curious... Why is it that the DIR folks seem to want normal SPGs with 6" hoses for the stages instead of the small SPGs that screw directly into the high pressure port? Perhaps they consider them easier to read more accurately? Does the same logic apply to the sidemount rigs? Perhaps they believe that the ones that screw directly into the high pressure port are more likely to hit something and break off? I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with an SPG that give you a full face detail dial, but is smaller than the normal SPGs... Yeah, I've seen the 'compact' ones, but they're not *that much* smaller... > Just curious... Why is it that the DIR folks seem to want normal SPGs with > 6" hoses for the stages instead of the small SPGs that screw directly into > the high pressure port? Because it's a cult, and we never question or change our ways. Strokes. Jesus.  Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Because it's a cult, and we never question or change our ways. So it's really because you can charge more for a larger gauge than a smaller gauge... It's all about money, just like everything else in life... OK... That makes sense... >Just curious... Why is it that the DIR folks seem to want normal SPGs with >6" hoses for the stages instead of the small SPGs that screw directly into [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >face detail dial, but is smaller than the normal SPGs... Yeah, I've seen the >'compact' ones, but they're not *that much* smaller... I put one of those little HP port gauges on my pony, and I love it. I would think they could get broken off from a stage tank, seeing how stage tanks get clanked, and banged into each other, and sometimes bump around on the anchor chains. It would still be worth trying. My pony rig has an Omega II, a small sized BC inflator hose, and the little port gauge. I often throw this rig onto an 80cf tank, strap it to my worst BC, and use it while cleaning the built in pool with a small hand brush. A quick look at that little gauge, and I can estimate my pool time. Roughly 20 minutes per 1000lb. Makes a nice rig for checking friends tanks when they have forgotten how much air was left after the dive. Sometimes wear my DatamaxII depth/bottom timer while working in the pool. Mainly just to see how long I have been scrubbing!!! > Just curious... Why is it that the DIR folks seem to want normal SPGs with > 6" hoses for the stages instead of the small SPGs that screw directly into [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Perhaps they believe that the ones that screw directly into the high > pressure port are more likely to hit something and break off? Because after a few dives those teeny weeny little gauges get scratched up and impossible to read. I used to have a few. I tossed them all in less than a year except for the one I use on my bench reg. Brian Edmonton, Alberta www.mossmanscuba.com >Just curious... Why is it that the DIR folks seem to want normal SPGs with >6" hoses for the stages instead of the small SPGs that screw directly into >the high pressure port? Can't read them, and they aren't anywhere NEAR accurate. Hell... I can't even get a decent estimate of how much is in the tank from those things on land. I have one on my argon tank. It tells me if it's "full", "half full", or "empty"... IOTW, it tells me if I forgot to fill it after the last trip or if I have enough for one more dive. I suppose it might be okay for a pony, but ponies aren't DIR. That's what your buddy is for. A stage is a part of your normal planned gas supply, and as such, you need information that is as accurate as the information you get from your back gas. >Perhaps they consider them easier to read more accurately? Does the same >logic apply to the sidemount rigs? Sidemount is not DIR, therefore, no. You can run those little unreadable POS's on your sidemount rig. >I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with an SPG that give you a full >face detail dial, but is smaller than the normal SPGs... Yeah, I've seen the >'compact' ones, but they're not *that much* smaller... The small Scubapro gauges are just fine for stages. I recall seeing a shot of one of GI's rigs using a plastic Suunto gauge. The main qualifier for the stage gauge is that it is graduated in 100psi increments, as is any DIR gauge. Properly tied back to the stage reg, it's totally unobtrusive. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ >Just curious... Why is it that the DIR folks seem to want normal SPGs with >6" hoses for the stages instead of the small SPGs that screw directly into [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >face detail dial, but is smaller than the normal SPGs... Yeah, I've seen the >'compact' ones, but they're not *that much* smaller... The little ones are impossible to read accurately. Knowing you have "somewhere around 2000 psi" isn't what most folks are looking for. Also, they can be nearly impossible to read on a clipped stage bottle with many regs just due to where the HP port is. The "button gauges" are ok for an argon bottle or (gasp!) a pony, but not really for a contents gauge on an "active" tank. -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind > The little ones are impossible to read accurately. Knowing you have > "somewhere around 2000 psi" isn't what most folks are looking for. Oh well, I kind of suspected that... Thought that I might be able clean up my gear a bit by going with them, but I was hesitant considering the lack of detail on the gauges... Looks like I'm just going to have to get me some more regular gauges and 6" hoses... >> The little ones are impossible to read accurately. Knowing you have >> "somewhere around 2000 psi" isn't what most folks are looking for. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >detail on the gauges... Looks like I'm just going to have to get me some >more regular gauges and 6" hoses... When Abyss was in the process of going under I got a nice passel of mini SPGs along with the requisite 6" hoses. They work really nice. My only complaint is that at "regular prices", especially if you buy the ones with the holy "H" on them, they are outrageously expensive. -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind > My only complaint is that at "regular prices", > especially if you buy the ones with the holy "H" > on them, they are outrageously expensive. Yeah, SPGs seem to be somewhat overpriced when you compare them to the bare gauges that you can buy for a gas welding tanks or CO2 regulators... Doesn't seem all that many years ago that a simple J-valve was a good replacement for a SPG... > Yeah, SPGs seem to be somewhat overpriced when you compare them to the bare > gauges that you can buy for a gas welding tanks or CO2 regulators... Doesn't > seem all that many years ago that a simple J-valve was a good replacement > for a SPG... Abut the same time you had no power assisted brakes on your car. > > Doesn't seem all that many years ago that a simple J-valve was a good > > replacement > > for a SPG... Actually, an unbalanced first stage wroked fine for most divers. > Abut the same time you had no power assisted brakes on your car. Yep, and you know what? The cars stopped just fine. Lee > When Abyss was in the process of going under I got a nice passel of mini > SPGs along with the requisite 6" hoses. They work really nice. My only > complaint is that at "regular prices", especially if you buy the ones with > the holy "H" on them, they are outrageously expensive. Whilst the 'H' SPG's are great for back-gas regs, I (and most of us in the UK) use the small plastic bodied Suunto SM-36 SPG for stages, as they are quite reliable, O2 compatible and being light weight, have much less affect on the stage cylinder buoyancy. As a bonus they are also a bit cheaper to buy. >> When Abyss was in the process of going under I got a nice passel of mini >> SPGs along with the requisite 6" hoses. They work really nice. My only [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >on the stage cylinder buoyancy. As a bonus they are also a bit cheaper to >buy. They're tough to find around here at a decent price. However, the Tusa ones aren't bad, although they're both plastic and come with a nice small rubber boot (anti-DIR on the latter, but nice for protection of the gauge) Unfortunately Abyss wasn't able to get me as many of the little ones that I wanted.... so I'll run out for certain at some point :-> -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind > They're tough to find around here at a decent price. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Unfortunately Abyss wasn't able to get me as many of the little ones that I > wanted.... so I'll run out for certain at some point :-> Looks like you may have to mail-order them. If the rubber 'boot' is anything like that on the Suunto SM-36, which is simply a rubber ring that surrounds the body of the gauge, without covering the hose swivel, then it's really not non-DIR. The only reason that DIR stipulate that rubber boots on SPG's need to be removed is that they cover up the hose swivel, which allows grit and abrasive particles to be trapped and cause damage to the O ring, reducing the effectiveness of the post-dive equipment wash. As long as the hose and connections are uncovered there is no reason to remove the rubber protective ring. > The only reason that DIR stipulate that rubber boots > on SPG's need to be removed is that they cover up the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > As long as the hose and connections are uncovered > there is no reason to remove the rubber protective ring. So, the difference between non-DIR and DIR is just a pocketknife away? Interesting... >>The only reason that DIR stipulate that rubber boots >>on SPG's need to be removed is that they cover up the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > So, the difference between non-DIR and DIR is just a pocketknife away? > Interesting... I suppose you could argue all day long about whether it is better to keep grit and abrasive particles out of the spool with a boot, or eliminate the boot so you can more easily wash grit and abrasive particles out of the spool. Reminds one of the old "Don't you wash yer hands after ya pee?" "No, I don't pee on my fingers." Personally, I like a nice stout boot that relieves stress on the spool. >>>The only reason that DIR stipulate that rubber boots >>>on SPG's need to be removed is that they cover up the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> So, the difference between non-DIR and DIR is just a pocketknife away? >> Interesting... Actually, no, but mostly because the statement that the only reason for not having a boot is grit and abrasive particles. The ability of a rubber boot, whether on the guage or on a tank is also frowned on because they can trap salt water and conceal damage. > I suppose you could argue all day long about whether it is better to keep > grit and abrasive particles out of the spool with a boot, or eliminate the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Personally, I like a nice stout boot that relieves stress on the spool. Personally, I like a nice, stout, console that both relieves stress, keeps the tools I use to control my dive together, making them easy to use, and keeps them from getting bounced around in the car and on the boat. Lee >> Personally, I like a nice stout boot that relieves stress on the spool. > > Personally, I like a nice, stout, console that both relieves stress, keeps > the tools I use to control my dive together, making them easy to use, and > keeps them from getting bounced around in the car and on the boat. Not a real issue, due to how used & where they're secured and stored. Curtis > Oh well, I kind of suspected that... [snicker] That makes two of you, and you're beautifully matched. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > That makes two of you, and you're beautifully matched. So now you're saying that you like the small button-size SPGs? Take a stand, one side or the other... Doesn't matter which side, just be consistant... I'll freely admit that I had suspicions about the appropriateness of the button-size gauges, but I didn't like the alternative of a full size gauge on a 6" hose that much either... Unfortunately there is no real middle ground on the choices... If they make the button-size gauge any bigger, it probably starts getting big enough that it could be broken off... I suspect that would be classified as a *bad* thing... > > That makes two of you, and you're beautifully matched. > > So now you're saying that you like the small button-size SPGs? That was pretty funny. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Just curious... Why is it that the DIR folks seem to want normal SPGs with > 6" hoses for the stages instead of the small SPGs that screw directly into [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > face detail dial, but is smaller than the normal SPGs... Yeah, I've seen the > 'compact' ones, but they're not *that much* smaller... The small ones, as has been said, aren't accurate at least they're only accurate enough to tell you you have x thousand psi +/- 500. Also after a dive or 2 and a little "scrubbing" on the outside of the face ( the clear face sticks out a little from the metal body and slowly gets scratched until only about 2/3 of the face is visible) they can't be read on the surface and are very hard to read underwater in any case. I've always like the older tusa SPGs (yeah, I know, they're plastic - but I've never broken one yet) they are very small, easy to read, inexpensive, graduated in 100s, and don't have all the BS colors on them - At least the older ones (late '90s) don't, the new ones suck!! they are also max at 4000 psi. I don't know about you guys, but i don't really care how dead on a gage is at 3500 but I want the damn thing accurate at 200!!! I don't use a SPG on my bailout. the way I figure it - if I'm using that I have far more to worry about than watching a gage drop towards 0 - and it doesn't matter any way, when that bottle is empty I'm screwed anyway. > The small ones, as has been said, aren't accurate at least they're only > accurate enough to tell you you have x thousand psi +/- 500. > Also after a dive or 2 and a little "scrubbing" on the outside of the face > ( the clear face sticks out a little from the metal body and slowly gets > scratched until only about 2/3 of the face is visible) they can't be read > on the surface and are very hard to read underwater in any case. I've got one on my deco bottle regulator. So far, so good. We'll see how it stands up to use. > I've always like the older tusa SPGs (yeah, I know, they're plastic - but > I've never broken one yet) they are very small, easy to read, inexpensive, > graduated in 100s, and don't have all the BS colors on them - At least the > older ones (late '90s) don't, the new ones suck!! they are also max at > 4000 psi. I don't know about you guys, but i don't really care how dead on > a gage is at 3500 but I want the damn thing accurate at 200!!! Personally, care more near the middle of the range, when I'm making decisions on how much longer before I head back to the boat, up from the bottom, whatever. By the time I'm down to 200 psi . . . well, I'm not normally down to 200 psi, but if I were, it would be too late to worry about guage accuracy then. > I don't use a SPG on my bailout. the way I figure it - if I'm using that I > have far more to worry about than watching a gage drop towards 0 - and it > doesn't matter any way, when that bottle is empty I'm screwed anyway. The usefulness of a gauge on your bailout depends on how you check the gas in your bailout before the dive starts. I would think one of the small gauges would be fine for that. Knowing that it's full is enough. Lee >>The small ones, as has been said, aren't accurate at least they're only >>accurate enough to tell you you have x thousand psi +/- 500. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I've got one on my deco bottle regulator. So far, so good. We'll see how > it stands up to use. well the one I had lasted a quite a few dives but it got worse and worse till it couldn't be used at all after 50 or 60 dives on it. >>I've always like the older tusa SPGs (yeah, I know, they're plastic - but >>I've never broken one yet) they are very small, easy to read, inexpensive, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > normally down to 200 psi, but if I were, it would be too late to worry about > guage accuracy then. Agreed but I dive LP bottles ( 2600 psi ) what the hell do I need a 5000 psi gage for? I need a gage that is accurate @ ~1000 and I'd by far rather have it good at the short end than the long - I know when the darn bottle is full - I filled it and i don't use a SPG to check the fill. you may not need to know there's 200 psi in the tank but once but it's nice to know that when the gage says 200, you have 200 not 50 left. >>I don't use a SPG on my bailout. the way I figure it - if I'm using that I >>have far more to worry about than watching a gage drop towards 0 - and it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in your bailout before the dive starts. I would think one of the small > gauges would be fine for that. Knowing that it's full is enough. as i said - i had one on the bailout for checking topside - it wasn't accurate enough to give you a ' There's 3000 PSI in here ' but you could see if it wasn't in the same place it always was when you knew the bottle was full, or at least within a few hundred psi or so. > Lee Beacuse those little button guages are crap. They are unreliable, prone to damage and innacurate. A small standard SPG offers standardisation of kit, as, if one fails it can be easily swapped for one from a spare reg. The larger display is especially usefull in low viz conditions, some of the button guages don't even have a flourescent face on their display! The difference in cost between, for example, the small Suunto SPG and a button guage is minimal and far outweighed by the above factors (especially when you keep wasting money repllacing them when they fail). Finally, a normal SPG on a short hose (150mm) can be swivelled for easy reading, |
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