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Scuba Forum / General / January 2005Question about sharks
I would like to one day go on some dives, but have not done so yet. So, please pardon my novice question, but I am very curious. I watched the movie "Open Water", then afterwards read the story/summary of the inquiry about the people it was based on. Granted, nobody knows the truth of the actual events that took place to the couple in the ocean. But, my question to all you experienced divers out there is: if you were stranded in the ocean what do you think the chances are that you would die of thirst, hypothermia, drowning, or anything else vs. being attacked by a shark? I know the location would have a great deal to do with this, as well as 10,000 other possibilites. But seriously, if you are floating far out in the ocean for 24 for 48 hours, would you say there is a 1 in 10 chance a shark would take a nibble at you? 1 in 4 chance, 1 in 2 chance???? A shark expert (can't recall his name) interviewed in the story of the Open Water couple said that he thought a Tiger would have taken them after 24 to 48 hours (at the most). > I would like to one day go on some dives, but have not done so yet. > So, please pardon my novice question, but I am very curious. I watched [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > interviewed in the story of the Open Water couple said that he thought > a Tiger would have taken them after 24 to 48 hours (at the most). To put it into perspective, try to answer the same question about getting lost while hiking. The odds of getting hit by a shark are probably about the same as getting attacked by a bear. > ? I would like to one day go on some dives, but have not done so yet. > ? So, please pardon my novice question, but I am very curious. I watched [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > getting lost while hiking. The odds of getting hit by a shark are > probably about the same as getting attacked by a bear. We all know that everything we see on TV and at the movies is completely true and accurate, likewise, everything on the internet is totally factual. > > ? I would like to one day go on some dives, but have not done so yet. > > ? So, please pardon my novice question, but I am very curious. I watched [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > We all know that everything we see on TV and at the movies is completely > true and accurate, likewise, everything on the internet is totally factual. And your point is? > But seriously, if you are floating far out in the ocean for 24 for 48 > hours, would you say there is a 1 in 10 chance a > shark would take a > nibble at you? 1 in 4 chance? 1 in 2 chance? A shark expert (can't > recall his name) interviewed > in the story of the Open Water couple said > that he thought a Tiger would have taken them after 24 to 48 hours (at > the most). The truth is, we don't have a clue. For obvious reasons, most of us would not be diving if we did not expect to come back whole and uninjured. Each of us has some knowledge of the risks we face and each of us chooses some form of defense against those risks. For example, I may not carry any kind of signaling device when diving in the Fort Lauderdale area (nearest my home). The currents are mild, I expect to return to a stationary dive boat and even something happens to the boat, I'm close enough to a shore I can find, to believe I can make the swim successfully. When I diver further north, stronger currents are the norm and the boat is not normally stationary. The risk of my being separated from the boat is greater, as are the steps I take to make sure I can be recovered by my boat and/or seen by another. I carry a bright orange safety sausage (inflatable device about 3 feet long used to help a diver be visible on the surface). When I dive near the Dry Tortugas, there are currents, the boat is not stationary and I have no clue where the nearest land is. I take quite a few more precautions, including a larger safety sausage, lights just in case I am lost after dark and, usually, some submersible flares. Sharks are a reality in the ocean. Most of us have seen them and, for the most part, few of us have been bothered by them. Divers lost at sea are a rare event. Systems are designed to keep that from happening and must fail or fail to be implemented, for it to happen. When divers are lost at sea for a significant period, the odds of them being found seem to be close to even. About as many are found after a few days as are permanently lost. We don't usually know what ended the life of those that are permanently lost. I suspect hypothermia or just exhaustion, but the point is, we can't calculate the odds because we have no data on which to base our calculations. Neither does the "shark expert". Lee > To put it into perspective, try to answer the same question about > getting lost while hiking. The odds of getting hit by a shark are > probably about the same as getting attacked by a bear. Thanks a whole f.cking lot, Alan. I used to like hiking in the woods.  SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >> To put it into perspective, try to answer the same question about >> getting lost while hiking. The odds of getting hit by a shark are >> probably about the same as getting attacked by a bear. > > Thanks a whole f.cking lot, Alan. I used to like hiking in the woods. "sh.t happens in the woods" movies were popular long before Jaws demonized sharks. What about Deliverance? > "sh.t happens in the woods" movies were popular long before Jaws demonized > sharks. What about Deliverance? Deliverance probably had more long term effect on me than any movie before or after. For a couple of years after seeing Jaws, I spent more time looking over my shoulder than usual. Eventually, I got over it. Seeing Jaws a second time helped. To this day, I keep an eye out while in the Everglades, one of the few places in the US where people like those in Deliverance live and are isolated enough to make the scenes in Deliverance a reality. Lee > Deliverance probably had more long term effect on me than any movie before > or after. For a couple of years after seeing Jaws, I spent more time [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Deliverance live and are isolated enough to make the scenes in Deliverance > a reality. I got as far as the parking lot of Everglades Holiday Park during my November non-diving trip and I can see what you mean. Even in the parking lot, folks were starting to look a lot stranger. Southern Comfort was the movie that spoiled swamps for me, one big reason why I won't follow Grumman out of the city when I visit in February. Interesting factoid: according to IMDB, one of the writers of Southern Comfort is named Michael Kane, who is also given a writing credit for Jaws 3-D. > Southern Comfort was the movie that spoiled swamps > for me, one big reason why I won't follow Grumman > out of the city when I visit in February. What makes you think I was going to show you an area with *people* in it... <evil-grin> Oh, you also don't necessarily need to leave the city to get to the swamps... The city is just a drained swamp anyway... >> Southern Comfort was the movie that spoiled swamps >> for me, one big reason why I won't follow Grumman >> out of the city when I visit in February. > What makes you think I was going to show you an area with *people* in > it... > <evil-grin> > Oh, you also don't necessarily need to leave the city to get to the > swamps... The city is just a drained swamp anyway... Grumman's been in Louisiana long enough to know that he'll never be from Louisiana. He might show you the swamp, but I suspect even he won't be going into some parts of that swamp. Being where you should not be, when you should not be there, when you're not known to the locals, is a good way to disappear in that, and our, swamp. Lee > Grumman's been in Louisiana long enough to know that he'll never be from > Louisiana. He might show you the swamp, but I suspect even he won't be > going into some parts of that swamp. Being where you should not be, when > you should not be there, when you're not known to the locals, is a good > way to disappear in that, and our, swamp. We all have our parts of town or parts of the state where outsiders aren't welcome. I believe Grumman found that out the hard way when he visited our pleasant welcoming township of Compton. He wouldn't fare any better tramping around off road in our "Emerald Counties" up north where it's not much different than your swamp. My cousin finally got telephone service a few years back and she's had electricity now for over 15 years but when I first visited her little cabin in the woods off a long dirt road off Highway 1 in the middle of nowhere, she had only propane for fuel and the phone was at the general store about 15 miles away where she still gets her mail. She still hasn't installed a septic system, preferring her little outhouse instead. When visiting we were always warned not to stray from the dirt road and given very careful instructions so that we didn't miss the turn off to her property and end up somewhere we'd rather not be. The local farmers get a bit testy and lethal booby traps are common enough. > The local farmers get a bit testy and lethal booby > traps are common enough. Ahhh.... THOSE types of "farmers"... > Grumman's been in Louisiana long enough to know that he'll never be from > Louisiana. He might show you the swamp, but I suspect even he won't be > going into some parts of that swamp. Being where you should not be, when > you should not be there, when you're not known to the locals, is a good way > to disappear in that, and our, swamp. I've been to the remotest parts of the swamps in Louisiana... Well, at least a 100-200 ft away from the remotest parts... Flying above it... <grin> As for encountering the "Deliverance" type crowd, I haven't seen that in all my driving through the southern part of the state and I've gone as far south as the road will take me... Perhaps they're all either working as commercial fishermen or on oil rigs these days... Perhaps it has something to do with the 66 sq-km of coastline that Louisiana loses each year these days... The taming of the Mississippi was probably the worst thing that could have happened to the wetlands... With no new supply of the muddy Mississippi water to be deposited during floods in the wetlands, the land slowly susided (i.e. sunk)... http://biology.usgs.gov/s+t/SNT/noframe/gc138.htm This has probably made a lot of the more remote pockets of people move further north and eventually migrate into normal society... There is still a heavy French influence in their dialect, but individuals that only speak Cajun / Creole are getting more and more difficult to find... The ones who do speak English have enough of an accent that it can take awhile to be able to understand them... One of the surprising things that I've noticed here in the New Orleans aera is that in a lot of way, the New Orleans accent is rather similar to a Brooklyn accent... Definitely different than the accent of the population once you get away from the city... > I got as far as the parking lot of Everglades Holiday Park during my > November non-diving trip and I can see what you mean. Holiday Park, and anything you're likely to see from it, is safe. The people running the park have a legal way of separating you from your money and they want you and your friends back so they can separate you from more of it. While you probably saw the beginning of the kind of people and territory I'm speaking of, you were not within 30 miles of swamp of the real thing. Over the years, I've known people that lived their lives with only occasional electricity and no phones. I well remember talking to people at Monroe Station, a once upon a time whore house, bar, general store, gas station and full time parking lot for swam buggies, about the fact that their marine radio was the only link around 26 residents of the nearby swamp had with civilization. The radio was on 24/7 to ensure that somebody would know to send help to somebody injured or otherwise in trouble in the swamp. The National Park Service, DOT and others have bought up most of the property homesteaded many years ago by the families of those people. There aren't many left and they finally managed to force Monroe Station to sell and close. It took the EPA to do it. Their old fuel tanks and collection of old, oil and fuel leaking swam buggies did the trick. The environmental cleanup bill was, reportedly, staggering. It was the passing of a Florida landmark. To the day I die, I'll remember the sign that said "It's illegal to sell beer before noon on Sunday. What flavor cereal would you like, Bush, Budweiser . . . " They had the best smoked sausage sandwiches around, or maybe it just seemed that way. When I first started going there, they had the only food around. Oh yes, they also had an annual hog roast. They served wild hog and swamp cabbage, now endangered. The event included a turkey and trap shoot. I was kind of small when I was young and, when it came my turn to shoot, they tried to steer me away from the 12 gauge guns, suggesting a 410 was more appropriate. As it happened, they had a gun just like the one I learned with. They quit laughing and kidding when I hit three out of three clay targets. Not only did I get immediate respect, I got the quarter of beer prize for hitting all three targets. Times, and the place, were different back then. Lee >>> To put it into perspective, try to answer the same question about >>> getting lost while hiking. The odds of getting hit by a shark are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"sh.t happens in the woods" movies were popular long before Jaws demonized >sharks. What about Deliverance? Such as "The Edge," which came out a few years ago, with Anthony Hopkins. A grizzly tracked and killed survivors of a plane crash in Alaska. --- Mike from Ottawa >>Thanks a whole f.cking lot, Alan. I used to like hiking in the woods. > > "sh.t happens in the woods" movies were popular long before Jaws demonized > sharks. What about Deliverance? I've gone canoeing, kayaking, and rafting on lots of different rivers, but I've never even been near the Chattahoochee. Hell, I haven't even been on the Ocoee, just because the last syllable rhymes. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > >>Thanks a whole f.cking lot, Alan. I used to like hiking in the woods. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > even been near the Chattahoochee. Hell, I haven't even been on the Ocoee, just > because the last syllable rhymes. I thought Deliverance was filmed on the Nantahala... I've been on it, and the Chattahoochee and I've driven by the Ocoee, but I've never actually been on the Ocoee. >> To put it into perspective, try to answer the same question about >> getting lost while hiking. The odds of getting hit by a shark are >> probably about the same as getting attacked by a bear. > >Thanks a whole f.cking lot, Alan. I used to like hiking in the woods. Bear bells, remember the bear bells. (Then begins the joke about analyzing bear poop) Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman To receive a free ipod 40G or a laptop computer goto http://www.getgiftsforfree.com/index.php?ref_id=47979 and join me on the lists. > ? I would like to one day go on some dives, but have not done so yet. > ? So, please pardon my novice question, but I am very curious. I watched [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > getting lost while hiking. The odds of getting hit by a shark are > probably about the same as getting attacked by a bear. Ah that holds with the theory of "place". Not many loose bears here in the UK. LoL > But seriously, if you > are floating far out in the ocean for 24 for 48 hours, would you say > there is a 1 in 10 chance a shark would take a nibble at you? 1 in 4 > chance, 1 in 2 chance???? A shark expert (can't recall his name) > interviewed in the story of the Open Water couple said that he thought > a Tiger would have taken them after 24 to 48 hours (at the most). How many shark experts did they talk to and *not* quote in the article? If you get left behind in the middle of nowhere and aren't rescued you're probably most likely to drown or die of hypothermia. Dehydration will probably take well over 48 hours, and is still more likely tham death by shark, though where you are will be a factor. If there are great whites and you start thrashing like wounded prey when you get tired, *then* there's an excellent chance you'll bleed to death. A long time ago (perhaps 8 to 10 years) a sailor managed to fall off of a USN ship in the general vicinity of southern Africa or India. He was rescued by fisherman a couple of days later, IIRC. I'm not sure about closer to India, but off of southern Africa is one of the places you can go specifically to see great whites. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > But, my question to all you experienced divers out there is: if you > were stranded in the ocean what do you think the chances are that you > would die of thirst, hypothermia, drowning, or anything else vs. being > attacked by a shark? I know the location would have a great deal to do The location is paramount on your question. In the North Atlantic, which has been combed a thousand times by fisher boats, you will have a hard time finding a shark ; hypothermia will hit first. I have seen the chart showing survival times versus temperature, I recall it was 10 minutes in the North Sea. No shark will find you in 10 minutes, especially if all sharks have been killed. In warm waters, the situation is reversed : at 30?C, hypothermia is not a problem, thirst may kill you after 3-4 days ; no certainty there, as some individuals appear to have survived on sea water for much longer. But then the sharks, if any left in the vicinity, will have time to find you, and they will. You may know the story of the Indianapolis, the ship that delivered the Bomb. It was subsequently sunk by Japanese torpedoes, and, (quote this source : http://www.ussindianapolis.org/story.htm) Of the 1,196 aboard, about 900 made it into the water in the twelve minutes before she sank. Few life rafts were released. Most survivors wore the standard kapok life jacket. Shark attacks began with sunrise of the first day and continued until the men were physically removed from the water, almost five days later. Only 317 men survived. Reading the complete account of the event by one of the survivors does influence your ideas about diving in Open Water. XSFred > Reading the complete account of the event by one of the survivors does > influence your ideas about diving in Open Water. But one would assume that a ship sinking like that would have resulting in injuries (i.e. blood in the water) and as such, it would attract sharks more likely than if an uninjured person was just floating in the water... Hi Bacile If you are afraid of dying or being injured don't go diving 'cos the sharks'll get ya. Don't drive a car 'cos someone will go through a red light and get ya and don't use electrical appliances 'cos the electricity could get ya. Don't have a life then you can't get killed. Could bore yourself to death. SignaturePoida >Hi Bacile >If you are afraid of dying or being injured don't go diving 'cos the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Don't have a life then you can't get killed. >Could bore yourself to death. Stay in bed and die of infected bedsores. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman > Hi Bacile > If you are afraid of dying or being injured don't go diving 'cos the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > Poida ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Poida's Profile: http://forums.deeperblue.net/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=2528 > View this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?threadid=57686 Afraid? Nah... not at all. Like I said, I am just curious as to how these creatures would react to people floating in the water for several hours/days, especially if nobody else was around. I had always thought that the curiosity of a shark (and other fish) would increase if it did not see any threat of multiple people or boats. And curiosity may not mean a nibble, but a closer proximity definitely increases the chances. I just wanted some experienced people to chime in - and you all did that (thanks). I live in the middle of the US, so I don't have the opportunity to get to the Ocean too often. > Afraid? Nah... not at all. Like I said, I am just curious as to how > these creatures would react to people floating in the water for several [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > all did that (thanks). I live in the middle of the US, so I don't have > the opportunity to get to the Ocean too often. Good thing, since you are so afraid of sharks. (wg) > I would like to one day go on some dives, but have not done so yet. > So, please pardon my novice question, but I am very curious. I watched [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > interviewed in the story of the Open Water couple said that he thought > a Tiger would have taken them after 24 to 48 hours (at the most). Hell, the only sharks that worry me are the ones that work at the law firms!!!! |
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