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Scuba Forum / General / February 2005Airline Carry on of Dive Gear
Does anyone know the rules about carrying dive equipment on-board domestic/international flights? I can meet the in-cabin size & weight requirements, however I wonder if security screeners have rules specific to regulators/computers and the like nowadays. > Does anyone know the rules about carrying dive equipment on-board > domestic/international flights? I can meet the in-cabin size & weight > requirements, however I wonder if security screeners have rules specific to > regulators/computers and the like nowadays. They may (or may not) ask questions, but as long as you don't have a knife or EMT shears, there's no problem. > They may (or may not) ask questions, but as long as you don't have a > knife or EMT shears, there's no problem. CORRECTION -- *should* be no problem... I had stumbled across this seller on eBay that is part of the state of Oregon and they were selling the various items that had been confiscated... Of course, there is the ad for the MOUNTAIN OF SCISSORS and various Swiss Army style knives, but he said that they have also confiscated Carburetors and engine manifolds... Personally, I suspect they were overreacting, but they're overreacting with the knives and scissors also... Unfortunately, there is a lot of personal discretion involved that allows them to take whatever they have want of yours... > Unfortunately, there is a lot of personal discretion > involved that allows them to take whatever they have want of yours... That's the key issue. As a practical matter, the screener can decide that almost anything is dangerous. Would you want to be hit by a first stage swung on the end of a 39" hose? Personally I've always been puzzled that the little baby swiss army knives with a 1.5" blade are officially prohibited but dangerously sharp knitting needles are on the permitted list. I used to expect to open my carry on bag based on previous experience, but on the last several trips I've breezed right through. Anything that's opaque on the x-ray and the size of a 2nd, spg or computer could be a timing device, but so could an innocent looking alarm clock.  SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > That's the key issue. As a practical matter, > the screener can decide that almost anything > is dangerous. Would you want to be hit by a > first stage swung on the end of a 39" hose? Not really, but I would find it difficult to see how anyone could do too much damage to many people in the cramped confines of an aircraft... But then again, who would have thought that some boxcutters would be able to bring down three aircraft? I guess if you put enough sheep as passengers on the aircraft, anything is possible... >> That's the key issue. As a practical matter, >> the screener can decide that almost anything [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >bring down three aircraft? I guess if you put enough sheep as passengers on >the aircraft, anything is possible... A friend once suggested that a broken CD makes a dandy knife. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman >>>Would you want to be hit by a >>>first stage swung on the end of a 39" hose? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>bring down three aircraft? I guess if you put enough sheep as passengers on >>the aircraft, anything is possible... It also depends on who's using the "weapon". Don't various governments spend large amounts of money training people to do unpleasant things with whatever's at hand? > A friend once suggested that a broken CD makes a dandy knife. Don't tell TSA unless you want fewer entertainment options when you fly. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >>> That's the key issue. As a practical matter, >>> the screener can decide that almost anything [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >A friend once suggested that a broken CD makes a dandy knife. A broken bottle makes a better one - and you can buy bottles on board the aircraft! Does anyone here think 9/11 would have happened any differently if the bad guys had used broken bottles instead of box cutters? So why the frell do they still allow glass containers?! And no, I don't buy 'money'. There's a saying in the aviation industry: 'if you think safety costs money, try having an accident...'. Mike Signaturehttp://www.corestore.org "All I know is that I'm being sued for unfair business practices by Microsoft. Hello pot? It's kettle on line two" - Michael Robertson > A broken bottle makes a better one - and you can buy bottles on board > the aircraft! > > Does anyone here think 9/11 would have happened any differently if the > bad guys had used broken bottles instead of box cutters? So why the > frell do they still allow glass containers?! Because nobody's gonna buy duty free liquor in plastic bottles? SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >> A broken bottle makes a better one - and you can buy bottles on board >> the aircraft! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Because nobody's gonna buy duty free liquor in plastic bottles? Did have an issue with a bottle (plastic) of liquor (vodka) in my dive bag. It became more of an issue with the TSA agent (Miami) I told him rules were rules - take the bottle. After about 10 minutes of explaining it to me his supervisor came over, asked if it was securely tight, and some remark that they had plenty of confiscated vodka and let it continue. There concern was that it was flammable. >>> Does anyone here think 9/11 would have happened any differently if the >>> bad guys had used broken bottles instead of box cutters? So why the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >tight, and some remark that they had plenty of confiscated vodka and let >it continue. There concern was that it was flammable. There wouldn't have been a problem if they had confiscated it and you had been flying internationally - you could have bought another one duty-free on board the plane... The really high-proof stuff makes a passable Molotov cockail too... Mike Signaturehttp://www.corestore.org "All I know is that I'm being sued for unfair business practices by Microsoft. Hello pot? It's kettle on line two" - Michael Robertson my > There wouldn't have been a problem if they had confiscated it and you > had been flying internationally - you could have bought another one [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mike In 2002, I took a JAR of Georgia Moonshine as carry-on to Australia, without incident. In 2004, I carried a bottle of 190-proof Moonshine to Bali, so my Aussie friend Strike and Thailand friend Bjorn can see how potent our Moonshine could be. :-) No incident either. You can't get much higher proof than 190. My grad-school chemistry major room-mates brought home what they called "benzine", a grad student's vodka for screw-drivers. It was 197-proof -- the best they could do in the Llab. :) If drunk straight, they were guaranteed to burn off one's esophagus. <G> Let's face it. All the contrived reasons by TSA for all kind of stuff are just as contrived as the reasons for confiscating fingernail clippers. -- Bob. > You can't get much higher proof than 190. My grad-school chemistry > major room-mates brought home what they called "benzine", a grad > student's vodka for screw-drivers. It was 197-proof -- the best they > could do in the Llab. :) If drunk straight, they were > guaranteed to burn off one's esophagus. <G> You can't get ANY higher than 197 proof with standard distilling. any higher requires either a vacuum or a molecular sieve. Best I have ever seen is 195 proof, and that took (IIRC) 9 passes and perfect temperature control, and a lot of time. You get to a point where the aziotrope's boiling point is the same as the alcohol. >> There wouldn't have been a problem if they had confiscated it and you >> had been flying internationally - you could have bought another one >> duty-free on board the plane... > In 2002, I took a JAR of Georgia Moonshine as carry-on to Australia, > without incident. In 2004, I carried a bottle of 190-proof Moonshine > to Bali, so my Aussie friend Strike and Thailand friend Bjorn can see > how potent our Moonshine could be. :-) No incident either. > Let's face it. All the contrived reasons by TSA for all kind of stuff > are just as contrived as the reasons for confiscating fingernail > clippers. Not contrived at all. The regulations forbidding the carrying of hazardous materials in checked baggage aren't the TSA's, but rather from the FAA. It's not what you can't bring on the plane, but what you can bring. 49 CFR 175.10(a)(4), the exceptions section, states "The following hazardous materials [are allowed on board] when carried by a passenger or crew member for personal use in conformance with the following conditions: (i) Non-radioactive medicinal or toilet articles (including aerosols) may be carried in checked or carry-on baggage; . . . (iv) The aggregate quantity of hazardous materials carried by the person may not exceed 2 kg (70 ounces) by mass or 2 L (68 fluid ounces) by volume and the capacity of each container may not exceed 0.5 kg (18 ounces) by mass or 470 mL (16 fluid ounces) by volume." Ethanol is a class 3 hazardous material, i.e. "Flammable Liquid". And you have to convince them that it's medicinal or a toilet article. > Ethanol is a class 3 hazardous material, i.e. "Flammable Liquid". And you > have to convince them that it's medicinal or a toilet article. Strong aftershave... Tasty too... >>> There wouldn't have been a problem if they had confiscated it and you >>> had been flying internationally - you could have bought another one [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Ethanol is a class 3 hazardous material, i.e. "Flammable Liquid". And you >have to convince them that it's medicinal or a toilet article. The signs I've seen all say something to the effect of "alcoholic beverages of 150 proof or less". Which eliminates Bacardi 151. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman I have to add my favorite airport security story (personal) since it is dive related: I fly in and out of Kansas City regularly on business and pleasure, where they have a private security company, not TSA. All concessions (and bathrooms) are outside of security, so I stopped at a Starbucks to grab a frappachino before heading through security to the gate. The lady behind the counter asked if I was going through security and when I replied that I was, told me that she had to give the drink in a paper cup because security wouldn't allow the plastic cups. When I asked why, she told me that the cup could be fashioned into a weapon (according to this security company) and they would not allow them. The funny thing was, I was traveling with my reg, which makes for nice variety of weapons ranging from strangling with the hose to whipping it around like a mace. This was okay, but they HAD TO DRAW THE LINE AT THE PLASTIC STARBUCKS CUP!!!! > I have to add my favorite airport security story (personal) since it > is dive related: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > This was okay, but they HAD TO DRAW THE LINE AT THE PLASTIC STARBUCKS > CUP!!!! I find it easiest to think of TSA screeners and management as people underqualified to work at McDonald's. When you think of them that way, you're pleasently suprised anytime they show even the tiniest inkling of brian activity. > >> A broken bottle makes a better one - and you can buy bottles on board > >> the aircraft! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tight, and some remark that they had plenty of confiscated vodka and let > it continue. There concern was that it was flammable. If the concern is flammability, then it wouldn't matter if the bottle is OPEN or SEALED when it was taken on board, because a passenger can always open the sealed bottle after boarding. I do know that it's airline RULE that any OPENED liquor bottle cannot be taken on board, presumably becuase it may be a ready- made Molotov Cocktail. Last year, I purchased a 1 liter bottle of Khalua in the Coz supermarket for $7.88 PESOS, which was less than $7 USD. So, we used a few drops to flavor our coffee while in Coz, and took the bottle in a carry-on -- that was when I was told of the "open bottle rule". So, instead of having it ocnfiscated by the Mexican TSA goons, I insisted on taking the bottle outside of the terminal, and gave it to a group of porters and cabbies sitting around, to their delight. >>>>A broken bottle makes a better one - and you can buy bottles on > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > the terminal, and gave it to a group of porters and cabbies > sitting around, to their delight. it was in check baggage not going on board with me > I do know that it's airline RULE that any OPENED liquor bottle > cannot be taken on board, presumably becuase it may be a ready- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the terminal, and gave it to a group of porters and cabbies > sitting around, to their delight. Funny, there is no "open bottle" rule. You're merely not allowed to 'serve' your own alcohol during the flight, so a swig from an open bottle is frowned upon. The FAA allows any amount of alcoholic beverages containing less than 24% alcohol since they're not considered hazardous materials. They allow up to 70% alcohol in "retail packagings not exceeding 5 liters (1.3 gallons) carried by a crew member or passenger in checked or carry-on baggage". Nothing prohibits the retail packaging from being opened. Obviously you were scammed. Besides, I thought you don't drink. Do you also 'flavor' your Coke with a 'few drops' of rum? >>>> That's the key issue. As a practical matter, >>>> the screener can decide that almost anything [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Mike Frell? You know Ben Browder is going to Stargate next season? Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman > >> That's the key issue. As a practical matter, > >> the screener can decide that almost anything > >> is dangerous. Would you want to be hit by a > >> first stage swung on the end of a 39" hose? You can strangle better with a 7-ft hose! > >Not really, but I would find it difficult to see how anyone could do too > >much damage to many people in the cramped confines of an aircraft... But > >then again, who would have thought that some boxcutters would be able to > >bring down three aircraft? I guess if you put enough sheep as passengers on > >the aircraft, anything is possible... But I have yet to come across a single case of crime committed on aircrafts or ANYWERE because someone has a fingernail clipper as a weapon, as I had my fingernail clipper (in my wife's carry-on) confiscated on Dec 27, 2004! :-) > A friend once suggested that a broken CD makes a dandy knife. As I had pointed out more than once before, the bare hands of a "black belt" holder in karate is LEGALLY considered to be a lethal weapon in the USA! They can do much more damage than a fingernail clipper, a broken CD, or the metal fork that accompanies the pastic knives and spoons in First Class, and a hundred other things confiscabable according to the Moronic Code of the TSA. :-) I carry a lethal weapon (because they call me Miyagi <of Karate Kid fame> :-)) on every one of the 147,091 miles I flew on public commercial airlines last year, and over 100,000 miles every year since 9/11/01. But I had more fingernail clippers confiscated than Bin Laden's terrorists have owned fingernail clippers in their entire lives. :-) -- Bob. >A friend once suggested that a broken CD makes a dandy knife. Same applies to your driver's license, which you are almost required to carry with you. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >> They may (or may not) ask questions, but as long as you don't have a >> knife or EMT shears, there's no problem. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >scissors also... Unfortunately, there is a lot of personal discretion >involved that allows them to take whatever they have want of yours... California has a similar Ebay ID (californiagold2000 IIRC) It's not ONLY confiscated stuff... it's anything the state wants to dispose of. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ > California has a similar Ebay ID (californiagold2000 IIRC) > It's not ONLY confiscated stuff... it's anything the state wants to > dispose of. Yeah, they had those types of things also, but there were certain things that were explicitly labeled as TSA confiscations like the "MOUNTAIN OF SCISSORS" listing... I had bought a spare climbing harness that had a lot of caribiners with it... It had been some sort of police evidence (stolen from a store) and after the trial, no one ever claimed it, so they 'disposed' of it... The number of caribiners in the lot was worth it even if the harness wasn't any good... > I had bought a spare climbing harness that had a lot of > caribiners with it... It had been some sort of police evidence (stolen from > a store) and after the trial, no one ever claimed it, so they 'disposed' of > it... The number of caribiners in the lot was worth it even if the harness > wasn't any good... I hope you're just using the biners for utility work, and not actually hanging from them. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > I hope you're just using the biners for utility work, and not > actually hanging from them. And why not? They haven't arrived yet, but I'll examine them to see if they have any sort of brand / weight rating on them and if they look good, I'll use them as they were intended... From what I could see in the photo, there was at least 12 'biners total with at least 6 of them being locking 'biners... >>I hope you're just using the biners for utility work, and not >>actually hanging from them. > > And why not? Because their history is unknown and therefore suspect. > was at least 12 'biners total with at least 6 of them being locking > 'biners... So if they're SMC, Petzl or Black Diamond you may have saved $100 compared to buying them at REI or EMS. They're probably fine, but how do you know the one you're going to trust your life to wasn't dropped 100 feet onto concrete or used to tow a 20 ton truck? What's your life worth, and how much risk do you want to take? -- Steve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Because their history is unknown and therefore suspect. Perhaps, but I like to think that I can get a pretty good idea of what kind of condition they are in just by looking at them... If they don't look like they've been used much, they probably haven't been abused... Actually most of the use I'll have for them is climbing a few trees to cut some limbs that were damaged by the tornado that came through here back around the end of November... It's not that far to fall, but I would rather not be doing it at the same speed as the chainsaw... > They're probably fine, but how do you know the one > you're going to trust your life to wasn't dropped 100 > feet onto concrete or used to tow a 20 ton truck? I think the 20 ton truck would be pretty obvious... The drop from 100 feet probably wouldn't do that much damage to them from a structural standpoint -- perhaps a few scratches would be all... > What's your life worth, and how much risk do you want to > take? Stupid question -- you've apparently not seen the list of bones that I've broken over the years... <grin> No rocks to climb around here anyway... When my daughter goes rock climbing in a gym, I belay her, but I could do that without a 'biner anyway with a simple body belay... I was replacing some shingles on the roof that got blown off by the tornado and having a harness at that time would have been very useful... I ended up making a temporary harness out of a tow strap, tieing a rope to it, and attaching the rope to a tree on the other side of the house and belaying myself... Good thing I did because the roof is steep enough that I lost traction and fell a couple of times... > I think the 20 ton truck would be pretty obvious... Picking up a 20 ton truck with a biner that fails at 3 tons would definitely result in a biner with damage that's pretty obvious. Towing a 20 ton truck, where the force on the biner might not be enough to cause permanent deformation is a different matter. The drop from 100 feet > probably wouldn't do that much damage to them from a structural > standpoint -- perhaps a few scratches would be all... If it's aluminum or titanium you're probably right. Steel is a bit more brittle. Either way, I can afford to replace a $6 to $14 biner that's been dropped. >>What's your life worth, and how much risk do you want to >>take? > > Stupid question -- you've apparently not seen the list of bones that I've > broken over the years... <grin> It's a risk vs reward thing. I've jumped out of a perfectly good airplane that was 15,000 feet above some not-soft-enough ground. I've also balked at walking across a 1 foot wide ledge that was 300 feet off the deck, where I had nothing to save me in the unlikely event I were to fall off of it. When you have the easy alternative of spending a modest sum of money for equipment that has a better history, it seems foolish to risk even your sorry a.s. > No rocks to climb around here anyway... When my daughter goes rock climbing > in a gym, I belay her, but I could do that without a 'biner anyway with a > simple body belay... What gym do you go to that they'll let you use a body belay? Don't they have a lawyer? I was replacing some shingles on the roof that got > blown off by the tornado and having a harness at that time would have been > very useful... I ended up making a temporary harness out of a tow strap, > tieing a rope to it, and attaching the rope to a tree on the other side of > the house and belaying myself... Good thing I did because the roof is steep > enough that I lost traction and fell a couple of times... I've used my harness and ropes on my roof (12/12 pitch), and on scaffolding while painting the house. I haven't fallen yet, but I'd rather know I'm not going to fall far or land on something hard. If I was using a chainsaw or a torch I might be thinking about cable instead of a rope. If you haven't already given plenty of thought to recovery once you're hanging in your harness you might want to have a look here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=harness+pathology&btnG=Google+Search SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > What gym do you go to that they'll let you use a > body belay? Don't they have a lawyer? I said that I *could*, not that I do... "Could" meaning physically possible... Mainly because of the relative differences in our two masses and the short distance that she could actually fall since it's top-roped anyway... > but I'd rather know I'm not going to fall > far or land on something hard. Trust me, if you land on the ground, it is still rather hard even if it's not concrete... I've had my share of falling off houses when I was younger and roofing houses as a summer job... > If I was using a chainsaw or a torch I might be > thinking about cable instead of a rope. I've fallen out of a tree before while I was cutting a limb with a chainsaw... I was about 15 ft or so up and the limb that I was standing on broke while I was cutting it outward of where I was standing... We had a rope on the limb so that it wouldn't fall on the house and the guys were pulling hard enough on it that the whole limb broke off inward from where I was standing... It was a pretty good size limb, probably at least 10-12" in diameter -- more than enough to hold the weight of myself and the chainsaw... Once it broke, things just kind of happened in slow motion... I see myself in midair without anything underneath me, I think "OH sh.t", I start falling with the chainsaw, I push it away from me during the fall, and I hit the ground and roll... Knocked the wind out of me, but that was about it... Don't remember if the chainsaw was still running afterwards... Considering how tempermental that saw was, I doubt it... <grin> > If you haven't already given plenty of thought to > recovery once you're hanging in your harness you > might want to have a look here: > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=harness+pathology&btnG=Google+Search Hmmm... Interesting... I wonder if the type of harness makes a difference... I can see how the harnesses made from 1" webbing could definitely do that... Mine are made from 1.5" webbing and I was thinking of designing my own out of 2" webbing... >Trust me, if you land on the ground, it is still rather hard even if it's >not concrete... I've had my share of falling off houses when I was younger >and roofing houses as a summer job... Quick shot with a nailgun will prevent that fall. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ > Quick shot with a nailgun will prevent that fall. Perhaps, but I would have to defer to Jammer's expertise in such matters... >>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=harness+pathology&btnG=Google+Search > > Hmmm... Interesting... I wonder if the type of harness makes a difference... > I can see how the harnesses made from 1" webbing could definitely do that... > Mine are made from 1.5" webbing and I was thinking of designing my own out > of 2" webbing... Narrower webbing will be uncomfortable, but wide webbng won't prevent your death if you ang in an upright position for long. Those industrial harnesses with an attachment point on the back are a death sentence if you can't self-rescue and don't have somebody to help you, because there's no way to get out of the vertical position. You can tie your own harness with about $25 worth of 2" webbing. A search for climbing and swami belt should turn up info. You can buy a good caving or climbing harness for as little as $50. The exra cost is easily worth the convenience of not having to tie the harness. If you buy hardware and sew your own you'll be close to the same price, so it seeme like an easy decison to me. You could look here: http://www.caves.org/imo/frames1.htm and click the link to harnesses. I'm partial to 20-2006 GGG Caver Seat Harness about 1/3 of the way down the page. You won't want to hang in it for a long time, but you don't really want to hang in a more comfortable harness for very long, either. If you're not familiar with Prusik loops and the Munter hitch, do a search. They're very useful if you find yourself hanging in mid-air with nobody waiting to help. My preference for working in a tree or on a roof is to rig for rappel with a Munter hitch and tie a knot a couple of feet lower on the rope. If I fall I can wrap a girth hitch around my foot to stand, use a Prusik loop to support me while I untie the knot then rappel to the ground. A pair of Prusiks will let you climb back up if you'd prefer. That will also get you into a tree in the first place if it's not convenient to set up a ladder. You can also get by with a single Prusik and the girth hitch, but you don't want to climb more than a few feet that way. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. "Steve" > The exra cost is easily worth the convenience > of not having to tie the harness. I wasn't talking about tying the harness... I was going to sew it... I figured 2" webbing on the legs and 3" webbing on the waist if I was going to do it... > If you buy hardware and sew your own you'll be > close to the same price, so it seeme like an easy > decison to me. Might not be much difference in the end price, but I think that I can design and build one that would be a lot stronger... Strong enough that I would be broken in half by the fall before the harness gave up... Most of the rope work that I've done over the years is just simple repelling... Most of it when I was quite a bit younger and in the Navy... We used to go the the hang glider port over near UCSD, tie off on the posts around the port and then rapel down the 300 or so ft cliff... > You could look here: http://www.caves.org/imo/frames1.htm and > click the link to harnesses. I'm partial to 20-2006 GGG Caver Seat > Harness about 1/3 of the way down the page. You won't want to > hang in it for a long time, but you don't really want to hang in a more > comfortable harness for very long, either. I'm more partial to the 20-379 style... I like having a big honkin' D-ring up front... If you design them right, you can hang in them for a very long time... You can hang in a bosun's chair for a long time without any problem, but I don't think you want to be rockclimbing in one... <grin > Might not be much difference in the end price, but I think that I can design > and build one that would be a lot stronger... Strong enough that I would be > broken in half by the fall before the harness gave up I often believe in overkill, but sometimes there isn't much point. > I'm more partial to the 20-379 style... I like having a big honkin' D-ring > up front... If you've got too much money you can send some to me. I spent quite a bit on some new toys in the last few weeks. You can get the inexpensive harness and buy a big stainless maillon rapide and still have lots leftover. > If you design them right, you can hang in them for a very long time... You > can hang in a bosun's chair for a long time without any problem, but I don't > think you want to be rockclimbing in one... <grin> Almost anything that has you sitting on your butt is an improvement over hanging in a fall protection harness. I suppose you could just elimiminate the falling possibilty and start by sitting in a bosun's chair, but that may be unwieldy for some of the jobs you want to accomplish. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > I often believe in overkill, but sometimes > there isn't much point. Anything worth engineering is worth over-engineering... <grin> > You can get the inexpensive harness and buy a big > stainless maillon rapide and still have lots leftover. "Maillon Ripide" -- Fancy word for "screw link"... > "Maillon Ripide" -- Fancy word for "screw link"... Not quite. The local hardware store and Home Depot have quicklinks, but for a maillon rapide you'll need to go to a specialty supplier, where you'll find something that has a strength rating appropriate to your intended use. The quicklinks you find in the hardware store are usually only the same as a maillon rapide in the way the toy biners you can find at a hardware store are the same as a Black Diamond biner. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Not quite. The local hardware store and Home Depot > have quicklinks, but for a maillon rapide you'll need to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > toy biners you can find at a hardware store are the same > as a Black Diamond biner. The 'biners are still the same from a design standpoint, irregardless of whether they are rated for life support or for key rings... It's just a matter of their load rating... They're 'biners -- one will support your keys, one will support your butt in a fall... Best not to get them mixed up... <grin> They're still both CARIBINERS because that is what the design is... The Maillon Rapide are screw links... Rated for a lot of weight, but screw links none the less... I was just poking fun at the French for taking a simple term like "screw link" and giving it a fancy name... Turns out that the harness that I got from the Oregon State department that was disposing of various property is pretty obviously brand new... It's the perfect size for my daughter and is a full body harness... A Trango Apache... http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=2_28&products_i d=768 She'll probably grow out of it within a year or so, but I believe the 13 'biners were worth it... Some aluminum, some steel... They show a little use, but not more than would be expected from just banging around on a harness belt loop... Various brands... Black Diamond... Bonaiti... Inox Aisi... Omega... REI... SMC... Stubai... Pretty good assortment, I guess... Only one of the 'biners was not acceptable from a human load carrying capacity... It had a SWL of only 150 lbs... Good enough to clip on a saw or whatever while I'm cleaning up the limbs in my trees... That will have to wait though... My chain saw quit the other day and I've yet to figure out what is wrong with it... It's a new saw and has been running nicely during all the cutting of the live oak into firewood, but it won't even fire right now... I pulled the plug on it and it is getting a spark... Strange... Got a question for you... Why is it that the military uses a twist rope for rapelling and climbers use the kernmantle type ropes... At least the military used a twist rope way back when I was in -- not sure about currently... > is... The Maillon Rapide are screw links... Rated for a lot of weight, but > screw links none the less... I was just poking fun at the French for > taking > a simple term like "screw link" and giving it a fancy name... What's so fancy about "rapid link"? > I was just poking fun at the French for >>taking >>a simple term like "screw link" and giving it a fancy name... > > What's so fancy about "rapid link"? It's not rapid link, it's maillon rapide. It's French, and that makes it fancy. Sort of the way that pate de fois gras is fancier than smashed goose guts. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >> I was just poking fun at the French for >>>taking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It's not rapid link, it's maillon rapide. It's French, and that makes it fancy. Sort >of the way that pate de fois gras is fancier than smashed goose guts. It's not "goose guts", it's goose liver. As if any of us ever ate liver as a kid. But now I eat goose liver, fish eggs and ground fungus and drink spoiled grape juice. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman Sort > >of the way that pate de fois gras is fancier than smashed goose guts. > > It's not "goose guts", it's goose liver. As if any of us ever ate > liver as a kid. But now I eat goose liver, fish eggs and ground > fungus and drink spoiled grape juice. Ew! . . . oh, wait . . nevermind. ;^) > It's not "goose guts", it's goose liver. As if any of us ever ate > liver as a kid. But now I eat goose liver, fish eggs and ground > fungus and drink spoiled grape juice. ? I thought you're a Texan who just eats barbecued chest cavities and swills yeast-fermented malty water. You say that like it's a bad thang (the ribs 'n beer part I mean) JF > The Maillon Rapide are screw links... Rated for a lot of weight, That was sort of my point. I've never seen a maillon rapide without a weight rating, even if it's a small one that's only rated at a few hundred pounds. OTOH th emajority of the quicklinks I've seen had no rating, even if they were 5/16" or 3/8". > Stubai Geez, are they still around? Their webiste has an English version, but the lkast time I saw any Stubai gear it was a few steel biners that were already old in the late 70's. Actually, I think I've seen Stubai ice axes listed in catalogs now and again. > Got a question for you... Why is it that the military uses a twist rope for > rapelling and climbers use the kernmantle type ropes... At least the > military used a twist rope way back when I was in -- not sure about > currently... Maybe they like being dizzy? The NYC fire department was still using laid rope in the early 90's. I'm not sure about now. I'm guessing that not many organizations would be using a braided rope that isn't kernmantle. I suppose there may be some cost saving in the case of NYFD. I was told they tossed ropes that were used for real rescues after a single use, so if a laid rope is a bit cheaper they'd at least save some money. It also took some bureaucratic organizations a bit longer than others to switch to that new-fangled stuff. Kernmantle ropes have only been around for half a century, after all. Ropes used by fire departments also have to be approved by the NFPA (national fire protection assoc, which is sort of UL for fire departments) since the early 90's or even longer. I think most static ropes are now approved (at least the ones readily available in the US), but it took a while for that to happen. I guess fire departments don't have much use for dynamic rope, since they don't seem to have NFPA approval. I'm not sure what all of the approval criteria are, but they may be limited to static rope. NFPA is definitely geared towards the rescue applications of the gear, of course. IMHO, there are a number of reasons why kermantle is superior, and I expect most cavers and climbers agree. It's certainly been a very long time since I've seen a caver or climber use a laid rope, though they are available. I understand that The Pleasure Chest, a NYC store specializing in sex toys, was selling kernmantle ropes as of the mid 70's. There's no question they have a nicer hand than laid ropes. -- Steve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > That was sort of my point. I've never seen a > maillon rapide without a weight rating, even if > it's a small one that's only rated at a few hundred > pounds. OTOH th emajority of the quicklinks > I've seen had no rating, even if they were 5/16" > or 3/8". The ones that I've seen usually had the working load rating on the package, not stamped on the metal... Maybe that was just the stainless steel ones though... > Geez, are they still around? Their webiste has an > English version, but the lkast time I saw any Stubai > gear it was a few steel biners that were already old > in the late 70's. I saw some advertised on the web at some climbing store / site... They seem pretty well made... The screw threads go up the gate and where the gate latches... > Maybe they like being dizzy? For a standard repel, probably not... If you're suspended for a period of time, yeah, you could start getting a 360 view of the surrounding scenery... <grin> Seems that the arborists also tend to use the laid rope instead of the kernmantle... At least the ones that I've seen cutting trees that were damaged by the tornado that hit near here... > The ones that I've seen usually had the working load rating on the package, Every quicklink and maillon rapide I've ever bought was unpackaged and hanging on a rod on a pegboard wall. >>Maybe they like being dizzy? > > For a standard repel, probably not... If you're suspended for a period of > time, yeah, you could start getting a 360 view of the surrounding scenery... > <grin> I'm thinking in terms of a free rappel, where you can't put your feet against the wall. Hanging weight from a laid rope makes it want to untwist, so you generally spin a fair amount. Even on a static kernmantle you'll spin a little bit on a free rappel or during ascent, but I don't think I've ever gone around more than two or three times on a 150 foot drop. Using a figure eight or other device that twists the rope can give you a spin, too. > Seems that the arborists also tend to use the laid rope instead of the > kernmantle... At least the ones that I've seen cutting trees that were > damaged by the tornado that hit near here... The only time I've seen an arborist rope in a shop it was a really fat kernmantle rope. Looking at it from a climbing and caving background they seem to have some pretty funky techniques. I use half hitches and tautline hitches for lots of things and consider them really useful but I don't have much interest in trusting my life to them. Did you know that there are actually businesses that charge people for recreational tree climbing now? SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. <snip> > I'm thinking in terms of a free rappel, where you can't put your feet against the > wall. Hanging weight from a laid rope makes it want to untwist, so you generally spin > a fair amount. Even on a static kernmantle you'll spin a little bit on a free rappel... <snip> I've never noticed any spinning during the free rappels I've done using static kernmantle ropes. The highest I've ever done is 80' though. About 70' of that was free rappelling. > I'm thinking in terms of a free rappel, where you can't put > your feet against the wall. Understood... My experience way back then was with coming down a cliff... Large drops, but not enough large enough where you started to rotate... Just large enough to give it a little fun... The guys who rapel out of helos would encounter the rotating tendency more, but then again, the winds from the blades of the helo might either make it worse or cancel it out depending upon the direction of rotation of the blades and the twist of the rope... > The only time I've seen an arborist rope in a shop it > was a really fat kernmantle rope. Haven't seen any in the shops, just what the actual guys are using... Looks like a 3/4" laid rope that one coiuld get from Home Depot... > Did you know that there are actually businesses that > charge people for recreational tree climbing now? Hmmm... Interesting concept... I guess not all areas have rocks that are big enough to climb, but most of the areas that don't will have trees... I can remember climbing large pine trees when I was a kid... Slipping and falling through the branches... Luckily there was so much pine straw underneath the tree that it kind of acted as a bouldering pad... <grin> Luckily, Darwin was napping on those days... > If you've got too much money you can send some to me. Nawh... It's one thing to say that I like a particular model, it's quite a different thing to pay that amount of money for it... That's why I figured I would build my one "one of these days"... Until then, I've got a couple of other harnesses that I use... I've got a Petzl C66 that is pretty lightweight and convenient... Nothing fancy, but it works... http://www.outdoor-tec.com/products/cont_military1.htm >>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=harness+pathology&btnG=Google+Search >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >to set up a ladder. You can also get by with a single Prusik and the girth hitch, but >you don't want to climb more than a few feet that way. Even though I'm not much for aid climbing, I usually carried a pair of Jumars with me when doing overhangs or other situations in which I'd find myself off the rock. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman > Even though I'm not much for aid climbing, I usually carried a pair of > Jumars with me when doing overhangs or other situations in which I'd > find myself off the rock. Jumars will certainly be more efficient if you've got to climb, but you can hang a pair of prusiks on your harness and have them on every climb without them being a pain. You only need to find yourself hanging with the rock just out of reach and no means of ascending to see the merits of always having that as an option. Of course if I'm specifically planning on ascending a rope I'll usually be using mechanical ascenders, but my caving harness *always* has 2 Prusiks on it just in case I want another ascender or capture device. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > So if they're SMC, Petzl or Black Diamond you may have saved $100 compared > to buying them at REI or EMS. They're probably fine, but how do you know > the one you're going to trust your life to wasn't dropped 100 feet onto > concrete or used to tow a 20 ton truck? What's your life worth, and how > much risk do you want to take? I'll give you $300 for him, but you pay the shipping costs. > I'll give you $300 for him, but you pay the shipping costs. You can have him for $100 if you pick him up FOB when you're in NO. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > I'll give you $300 for him, but you pay the shipping costs. As Michael Douglas said in one of the "Romancing the Stone" movies, "Lady, I might not be cheap, but I *can* be bought"... <grin > > I'll give you $300 for him, but you pay the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=shipping&v=55">shipping</a> costs. > As Michael Douglas said in one of the "Romancing the Stone" <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=movies&v=55">movies</a>, "Lady, I > might not be cheap, but I *can* be bought"... <grin> Don't know what Greg was talking about, because the cruiseship i/e browser wouldn't let me read any of the posts via google.beta! So, I am using your post as a guineapig to see if I can reply any post, thus reading it. ;-) Cruising toward San Juan now. The first ship I've been on in which there is a BATHTUB (and shower) in the mini-suite. Would be great for gear rinsing after dives and put them out the balcony! Sorry for the OT. Hope I find some way to READ the posts in ngs. ;^) -- Bob. > > > I'll give you $300 for him, but you pay the <a > > Don't know what Greg was talking about, because the cruiseship > i/e browser wouldn't let me read any of the posts via google.beta! > So, I am using your post as a guineapig to see if I can reply any > post, thus reading it. ;-) I can now read and post in groups.google.beta! But I still don't know what you and Greg were talking about ... There'll be TWO two-tank dives in St.Thomas tomorrow. I signed up for the afternoon two-tank, figured it must be for "expert divers" on the ship, because it said "for divers with 25 or more dives only." :-) Speaking about carry-on gear -- you can carry on just about anything to cruiseships. The carry-on scanner station doesn't even require a laptop to be taken out of the computer bag. Since I assume the X-ray (at airports) can't penetrate the laptop to see any hidden GUNS or KNIVES, the cruise ships must be fairly tolerant of guns. -- Bob > Speaking about carry-on gear -- you can carry on just about anything > to cruiseships. The carry-on scanner station doesn't even require > a laptop to be taken out of the computer bag. Since I assume the > X-ray (at airports) can't penetrate the laptop to see any hidden > GUNS or KNIVES, the cruise ships must be fairly tolerant of guns. Maybe they figure that they don't have a high percentage of New Yorkers and thus someone will not be able to hijack an entire cruise ship with a couple of box cutters... All in all, I suspect that it would be rather difficult to use a cruise ship as an improvised bomb... Yeah, it's got a lot of fuel onboard, but if it crashed into something, it's probably not going to explode since the fuel tanks tend not to be in the locations that are going to be damaged in a collison... A cruise ship could be hijacked and the passengers killed, but using the ship to kill non-passengers might be rather difficult... > > Speaking about carry-on gear -- you can carry on just about anything > > to cruiseships. The carry-on scanner station doesn't even require [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > collison... A cruise ship could be hijacked and the passengers killed, but > using the ship to kill non-passengers might be rather difficult... That maybe, but I was diving with some cruiseship pod people last week and ship's security had relieved them of their dive knives before they left the ship. Apparently, there is some way to get the dive knives off the ship as at least one of the divers still had hers and was teasing another about how he'd been warned. In any event, I found it amusing that the cruiseship was trying to stop them from taking a knife to a gunfight. >> > Speaking about carry-on gear -- you can carry on just about anything >> > to cruiseships. The carry-on scanner station doesn't even require >> > a laptop to be taken out of the computer bag. Since I assume the >> > X-ray (at airports) can't penetrate the laptop to see any hidden >> > GUNS or KNIVES, the cruise ships must be fairly tolerant of guns. But they'll seize booze you try to take onboard. Profit first. >> Maybe they figure that they don't have a high percentage of New Yorkers >and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> collison... A cruise ship could be hijacked and the passengers killed, but >> using the ship to kill non-passengers might be rather difficult... They could blow open the bilges and tanks and pollute a few square miles. Maybe shut down a beach for a few days. What a horror that would be. Think about the innocent tourists deprived of a day at the beach! (Yes, I know that an oil slick isn't really a laughing matter) >That maybe, but I was diving with some cruiseship pod people last week and >ship's security had relieved them of their dive knives before they left the >ship. Apparently, there is some way to get the dive knives off the ship as >at least one of the divers still had hers and was teasing another about how >he'd been warned. Yes, if you request it in the morning and give them a time, they will meet you at the exit with the sharps. >In any event, I found it amusing that the cruiseship was trying to stop them >from taking a knife to a gunfight. Carol has a ceramic sushi knife. That would be fun to take on in an ankle holster. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman > >In any event, I found it amusing that the cruiseship was trying to stop them > >from taking a knife to a gunfight. > > Carol has a ceramic sushi knife. That would be fun to take on in an > ankle holster. I meant that I met many Hondurans carrying guns. Popeye'd be in heaven. .. >Speaking about carry-on gear -- you can carry on just about anything >to cruiseships. The carry-on scanner station doesn't even require >a laptop to be taken out of the computer bag. Since I assume the >X-ray (at airports) can't penetrate the laptop to see any hidden >GUNS or KNIVES, the cruise ships must be fairly tolerant of guns. An interesting assumption -- which differs from mine. I assume that X-ray can see guns, knives, etc, right through a laptop computer. I have thought that laptops are x-rayed seperately so that their electonic workings can be more clearly seen and thus more easily distinguished from the electronics of a bomb timer. Now given the quallity of TSA "security", this makes considerably less difference that the type of TP used in airport restrooms. But I wonder... does anybody know the real reason for making us take laptops out of their cases? Is it just another way for TSA to be onoxious? SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > .. > >Speaking about carry-on gear -- you can carry on just about anything [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > does anybody know the real reason for making us take laptops out of > their cases? Is it just another way for TSA to be onoxious? I don't know for sure, but I believe you're correct in assuming it's to see if the laptop is actually a bomb. Some of the more sophisticated scanners have the ability resolve small differences in desnsity which would allow them to potentially see plastic explosive inside of a computer casing. This requires variable tube voltage, and anything that gets in the way of the x-ray source is going to make it "turn up the heat" and possibly lose resolution. I believe this is also an automated feature, which reduces the test to a "red light, green light" indication, suitable for interpretation by the TSA monkeys. Assuming this is all true, then screening laptops seperately makes sense. A C4 explosive device on a plane is a real threat, and if this easy step keeps one off, then I think it's a good idea (unlike depriving people of their manicure scissors). Alan . >Assuming this is all true, then screening laptops seperately makes >sense. A C4 explosive device on a plane is a real threat, and if this >easy step keeps one off, then I think it's a good idea (unlike >depriving people of their manicure scissors). Yes, but ... even the most half-witted terrorist will have learned by now to carry the C4 seperate from his computer. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >. >>Assuming this is all true, then screening laptops seperately makes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Yes, but ... even the most half-witted terrorist will have learned by >now to carry the C4 seperate from his computer. You can carry quite a bit of C4 in Thunderwear. And you're not likely to get a patdown there. Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman > Now given the quallity of TSA "security", this makes considerably less > difference that the type of TP used in airport restrooms. But I wonder... > does anybody know the real reason for making us take laptops out of > their cases? Is it just another way for TSA to be onoxious? Probably. I don't recall having to take out my laptop in the other countries I've visited recently, nor did I have to remove my shoes. Security would be so much less a hassle if you didn't have to repack the laptop and tie your shoes each time you pass through. I also can't understand why digital video cameras need to be removed from their cases, but not digital still cameras which can take short video clips. Is it the actual videotape that's suspect? Perhaps they're worried that we could take out the tape and use it as a weak garrotte. Actually, I believe they reserve the right to scrutinize all electronic items. In the early TSA days, they would insist on turning on all cell phones. Now it's laptops and video cameras as these are the largest, thus potentially the most deadly electronic threats should they contain bombs. Whatever happened to the old stick of dynamite up the wazoo trick? Things have changed. > > Now given the quallity of TSA "security", this makes considerably less > > difference that the type of TP used in airport restrooms. But I wonder... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Security would be so much less a hassle if you didn't have to repack the > laptop and tie your shoes each time you pass through. I had to take off my Tivas everytime I went through Houston. I was wearing barefeet (in my Tivas), a pair of cropped pants, a tank top and a little sweater. So off with the Tivas, and off with the sweater. On the way home, I'd put my hair up. I made sure to have used plastic clips so that I didn't set off the beeper. Unfortunately, I forgot that the little barrettes holding the stray bits back, were metal and so had to completely undo my hair to satisfy them. Oh well, better all that than someone get through with a bomb. (snip) > Unfortunately, I forgot that the little barrettes > holding the stray bits back, were metal and so > had to completely undo my hair to satisfy them. Things sure have changed... I can remember in the early 1980s at the Norfolk airport walking through the metal detector with a camera bag full of a large 35 mm camera and a few different lenses... Of course, I also had metal clasps, belt buckles, shoe shanks, keys, a knife and such on me... It didn't so much as beep at me... I pointed this out to the Norfolk police officer that was standing there... He walked through with his utility belt with large revolver, ammo, handcuffs and such and it still didn't go off... I told him that they might want to adjust the sensitivity of the unit a bit and walked to my plane... These days I'm surprise that fillings don't set the detectors off... .. >... Oh well, better all that than someone get through with a bomb. Problem is that while TSA is busy with all this nonsence a real terorrist might be going through the line with something more than a barrette. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > .. > >... Oh well, better all that than someone get through with a bomb. > > Problem is that while TSA is busy with all this nonsence a real terorrist > might be going through the line with something more than a barrette. I gather my ways of expression are too subtle for you, eh? > In the early TSA days, they would insist on turning on all cell phones. That's nothing compared to turning on (and off) a laptop! It's not as if a laptop screen lights up and you can switch it off, like a cell phone. When the loptop screen lights up, it's just the BEGINNING of Windows (the majority of laptop users use) loading up all the starting software! Even for the fastest laptops, that could take half minute or more ... But you CAN'T (not supposed to) just switch it off because that would disrupt the normal Windows shut-down operation, which could screw up the FAT (File Allocation Table) or lose some files. So, you have to wait for it to power down. I've been through this several times (on a slow laptop running Windows 95). It was time for the TSA goon to be impatient because I would NOT let them turn my laptop off WITHOUT the full Windows shut down. :-) So, we both stand around staring each other down. I think some of those morons must have reported the time-consuming aspects of powering up and down a laptop to their superior goons, and the practice was later replaced by wiping some gun-powder detection pad on laptops. NOW, they did away with the laptop wipe altogether. So, they continue the TSA farce, by searching for other deadly stuff like fingernail clipper files, elastic hair bands that have tiny bits of metal tying the elastic band, and other equally dangerous weapons. -- Bob. >>In the early TSA days, they would insist on turning on all cell > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > -- Bob. I missed a flight in Detroit to Buffalo or Rochester - for just that reason. I don't mind going thru the check - just wished that the search wasn't customary. In St Louis the security was a joke, they didn't really make a search that would have stopped anyone. It seem more like an inconvience. If the search is going to be done - make it thorough > If the search is going to be done - make it thorough As he said while standing in line for the body cavity search... Hmmm... Now we know... >>If the search is going to be done - make it thorough > > As he said while standing in line for the body cavity search... Hmmm... Now > we know... not that thorough! > That's nothing compared to turning on (and off) a laptop! Which is really great when you've been using your laptop for awhile and haven't had a chance to charge it up and thus the battery is completely drained... > It's not as if a laptop screen lights up and you can switch it off, > like a cell phone. When the loptop screen lights up, it's just the > BEGINNING of Windows (the majority of laptop users use) loading up > all the starting software! Even for the fastest laptops, that could > take half minute or more ... If you can turn it off before it starts loading Windoze, you're OK... > I think some of those morons must have reported the time-consuming > aspects of powering up and down a laptop to their superior goons, > and the practice was later replaced by wiping some gun-powder > detection pad on laptops. NOW, they did away with the laptop > wipe altogether. They learned that terrorists tend to be frugal and light their shoes instead of their laptops, I guess... > They learned that terrorists tend to be frugal I still haven't figured out why the 9/11 hijackers bought one way tikets. Frequently they aren't cheaper than a r/t, anyway, and they knew they wouldn't be around when the credit card bill came in the mail. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > I still haven't figured out why the 9/11 hijackers > bought one way tikets. Frequently they aren't > cheaper than a r/t, anyway, and they knew they > wouldn't be around when the credit card bill > came in the mail. I guess they figured they wouldn't get the proper number of virgins in their f.cked-up version of an afterlife if they weren't fiscally responsible in their martyrdom... <sick-grin> 27 virgin camels, wasn't it? > 27 virgin camels, wasn't it? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. Have you ever seen the eyelashes on a camel? A bit of make up and a burka and you can have your own slice of heaven right in downtown Kandahar. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. Have you ever seen > the eyelashes on a camel? A bit of make up and a burka > and you can have your own slice of heaven right in > downtown Kandahar. I guess I'll have to defer to your more intimate knowledge on the subject matter... <grin> One hump or two? > One hump or two? Two, of course, but I need to wait 30 minutes in between. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > > They may (or may not) ask questions, but as long as you don't have a > > knife or EMT shears, there's no problem. > > CORRECTION -- *should* be no problem... What does Alan know? He only goes around ngs nitpicking, especially anything I post. "no problem" except "knife or EMT shears"? Tanks, ponies, Spare Deaths ... dive lights with batteries inside, reef hooks, etc., just to name a few legit dive "gears". Then, of course there are "gears" divers use, such a a fingernail clipper that has a file. My wife had mine consficated by the Security Morons in Hong Kong less than a month ago! > Personally, I > suspect they were overreacting, but they're overreacting with the knives and > scissors also... Unfortunately, there is a lot of personal discretion > involved that allows them to take whatever they have want of yours... CORRECTION -- they might *like* to confiscate "whatever they have want of yours", they can't and never will. :-) My 387 gram (12+ oz) 24K gold bracelet beeps every walk-through |
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