Scuba Forum / General / December 2004
Wierd accident
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Dillon Pyron - 15 Dec 2004 16:24 GMT Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I deserve a break.
When we were in Cozumel, there was a guy who had a little accident. It was one of his first open water dives since getting certified. After settleing on the bottom, he aspirated a little water and coughed. End of story. He finished the dive and did the second dive of the day.
When the got back to the room, he started complaining of neck pain. And his girlfreind noticed he was "swollen" in the neck, shoulders and chest. So, they called DAN. After describing the symptoms, the first question they asked was "Did you cough or sneeze"? He said yes, so off to the chamber/clinic they went. Seems he had a subcutaneous emphasima (sp?). No more diving for 6-8 weeks.
First time I've seen a case, anybody with a tad more experience ever see somebody get hit by this?
 Signature dillon
"When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman
nitespark - 15 Dec 2004 16:54 GMT > Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I > deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > First time I've seen a case, anybody with a tad more experience ever > see somebody get hit by this? Never heard of it dive related. However, subcutaneious emphysema is bascially, "air under the skin". It is usually associated with an injury such as broken ribs or some sort of fracture that allows air from the airway or lungs to escape from their usual flow paths and into surrounding tissues. The patient will often complain of a "crackling" sensation under the skin. Depending on the situation, this is also associated with a pneumothorax which is extremely serious.
Randy Buckner - 15 Dec 2004 18:47 GMT >> Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I >> deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > the skin. Depending on the situation, this is also associated with a > pneumothorax which is extremely serious. This is also a rare complication from mechanical ventilation e.g. PEEP for sleep apnea.
nitespark - 15 Dec 2004 19:47 GMT >>>Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I >>>deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > This is also a rare complication from mechanical ventilation e.g. PEEP for > sleep apnea. My wife is a Respiratory Therapist, I will see what she can add to this.
Greg Mossman - 16 Dec 2004 02:08 GMT > Never heard of it dive related. However, subcutaneious emphysema is > bascially, "air under the skin". It is usually associated with an injury [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the skin. Depending on the situation, this is also associated with a > pneumothorax which is extremely serious. I've had it, non-dive related. The 'crackling', medically termed 'crepitus' hurts like a SOB. The sound is akin to crunching the little bubbles used for packing material. AFAIK, any coughing hard enough to rupture a bleb (sort of a micro-herniation of lung tissue) is pretty hard coughing. I don't see how it could be caused by a little coughing while remaining stationary on the bottom. Usually when it happens diving, it's from overexpansion on ascent, the air forcing itself out through whatever means it can.
From DAN's website:
"The most common lung condition that predisposes an individual to pulmonary barotrauma is balloon-like extensions of air sacs (known as blebs or bullae). These sacs are believed to be caused by degradation of elastic fibers in the lung due to inflammation. They are most frequently found in smokers, but they can also occur in non-smokers. Because these sacs are thin-walled, and during exhalation tend to empty their air slowly, pressure can build up during ascent and they may rupture. Dive physicians recommend specific testing for divers who have experienced pulmonary barotrauma before they return to scuba diving. The evaluation may include a set of breathing tests, a chest X-ray or computed tomography of the chest (CT or "CAT" scan)."
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=40
nitespark - 16 Dec 2004 10:55 GMT >>Never heard of it dive related. However, subcutaneious emphysema is >>bascially, "air under the skin". It is usually associated with an injury [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > overexpansion on ascent, the air forcing itself out through whatever means > it can. My wife is a respiratory therapist and I asked her about it last night. She could not comment on the scuba aspects of it since she does not dive. She did mention the bleb. After talking with her and seeing some of the other replies on the NG, I am wondering if it may have been an unsafe ascent as you mentioned. As I recall, the OP said the diver had just been certified and was inexperienced.
bjeanneb - 15 Dec 2004 21:23 GMT I've coughed and aspirated water but didn't get subcuraneous emphysema. Guess it's like all other problems. Some gets it and some don't. Perhaps there was a predisposition? I'll follow this thread because there's no way one can absolutely NEVER cough or sheeze underwater.
Jeanne
> > When we were in Cozumel, there was a guy who had a little accident. > It was one of his first open water dives since getting certified. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > First time I've seen a case, anybody with a tad more experience ever > see somebody get hit by this? Karl Denninger - 15 Dec 2004 21:30 GMT You would have to have some pathway for air to get out of where its supposed to be and under the skin somewhere.
The usual mechanism is through an alevolar rupture, but it can also happen through the sinus cavities. The latter is often associated with coughing or sneezing, especially if you try to "hold it."
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>I've coughed and aspirated water but didn't get subcuraneous emphysema. >Guess it's like all other problems. Some gets it and some don't. Perhaps [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> First time I've seen a case, anybody with a tad more experience ever >> see somebody get hit by this? Matthias Voss - 15 Dec 2004 22:04 GMT > You would have to have some pathway for air to get out of where its supposed > to be and under the skin somewhere. > > The usual mechanism is through an alevolar rupture, but it can also happen > through the sinus cavities. The latter is often associated with coughing or > sneezing, especially if you try to "hold it." Or a excavated molar, which's excavation caused a rupture in the buccal cavity?
Matthias
chilly - 16 Dec 2004 05:01 GMT > I've coughed and aspirated water but didn't get subcuraneous emphysema. > Guess it's like all other problems. Some gets it and some don't. Perhaps > there was a predisposition? I'll follow this thread because there's no way > one can absolutely NEVER cough or sheeze underwater. I've never sheezed underwater. ;^)
> Jeanne > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > First time I've seen a case, anybody with a tad more experience ever > > see somebody get hit by this? Dennis \(Icarus\) - 16 Dec 2004 02:08 GMT > Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I > deserve a break. I was going to flame you unmercifully due to your on-topic post taking away from the guns & politics, but you nicely provided a means for the thread to drift to guns by mentioning the NRA, so I decided to let it slide.
;-)
Dennis
Lee Bell - 16 Dec 2004 04:57 GMT > Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I > deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > First time I've seen a case, anybody with a tad more experience ever > see somebody get hit by this? It's a first for me. I can't count the number of times I've coughed or sneezed underwater. So far, so good.
Lee
nospam@all.please.net - 16 Dec 2004 05:44 GMT > Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I > deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > First time I've seen a case, anybody with a tad more experience ever > see somebody get hit by this? I once had an uncontrollable coughing fit at about 80 feet; it was the early signs of a bad a.s summer cold or flu. Nothing came of it other than the aforementioned illness.
I occasionally cough, sneeze, belch, fart, hiccup, gag, pop joints, &c while at depth without problems (so far).
Dillon Pyron - 16 Dec 2004 20:10 GMT >> Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I >> deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >I occasionally cough, sneeze, belch, fart, hiccup, gag, pop joints, &c >while at depth without problems (so far). Man, I had a bad case of bean burrito in Coz. Coming out both ends. Burp. Fart. Burp. Fart. The burps sure tasted nasty, I'm glad I didn't smell the farts.
 Signature dillon
"When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman
nitespark - 17 Dec 2004 02:08 GMT >>>Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I >>>deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Burp. Fart. Burp. Fart. The burps sure tasted nasty, I'm glad I > didn't smell the farts. How much weight did you end up dropping after all that?
Dillon Pyron - 17 Dec 2004 04:35 GMT >>>>Yeah, I know, it's scuba related, but I think as an NRA lifer I >>>>deserve a break. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >How much weight did you end up dropping after all that? Needed more weight. All the gas in the suit expanded as I a.s-ended.
 Signature dillon
"When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman
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