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Scuba Forum / General / December 2004Canon Digital Rebel versus Nikon D70
Hi, I'm looking at the canon Digital Rebel and the Nikon D70. I flooded my housing so I am looking to upgrade to a new camera and a new housing. I have a sea & Sea YS-90 strobe. Which of these cameras would be my best choice? Will both be able to use my strobe? Thank you, Paul I am also looking at this matter and also have a YS90TTL Duo and will probably buy the Nikon, however, because Nikon have introduced a new type of TTL flash metering for the D70, which currently no-one produces an underwater flash that will work as TTL with the D70. You can use your YS90 and sync it wth the camera, but wil nedd to manually control the exposure, either by aperture or ISO (ASA) rating. If you have the same flash as me then there is also the option of using the variable flash power setting dial. > I am also looking at this matter and also have a YS90TTL Duo and will > probably buy the Nikon, however, because Nikon have introduced a new type of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You can use your YS90 and sync it wth the camera, but wil nedd to manually > control the exposure, either by aperture or ISO (ASA) rating. Which in essence means that all of the automation features (TTL, etc) that you're paying good money to improve your yield cannot be used. > If you have the same flash as me then there is also the option of using the > variable flash power setting dial. Which is still shooting manual (just adding one more control variable). Personally, I'd not compromise my new camera selection based on its compatibility on some old strobe that I have laying around. Especially if the strobe really isn't worth that much...a quick EBay search infers that a used YS90 Duo is probably worth no more than $200, which is also roughly half the price of a new one (without Sync Cord). My advice would be: a) sell the strobe (now, while you can still get anything for it) b) select & buy the better digital camera c) buy the compatible strobe for the aforementioned better camera. -hh > My advice would be: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > c) buy the compatible strobe for the aforementioned better camera. Or you could pay for a Fuji S2 Pro and housing which will TTL sync with the all Nikon TTL flash. However, currently the D70 is probably the best digital SLR for the money, but no-one (other than the Nikon SB800 flash which is not an underwater unit) wil sync at TTL with this. > > My advice would be: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > However, currently the D70 is probably the best digital SLR for the money, It is the best for middlin' money. but not for the money. Even though it is expensive the EOS-DsMkII is easily the best digital camera on the market right now, and worth every cent one chooses to pay for it. This is a splendid superb camera. The best digital ever released, and I am Nikon guy. It's going to be interesting to see what the D2X is about, because if it doesn't meet or exceed the Canon there is going to be a significant number of Nik users migrating to Canon and a whole lot of legacy glass for sale in the meantime :^) Has anyone here heard a reliable release date for the D2X? Suggestions earlier were end of year, but with nothing happening now I imagine it has been pushed back. > but no-one (other than the Nikon SB800 flash which is not an underwater > unit) wil sync at TTL with this. Digital has made TTL less necessary and indeed almost without need. Most will do much better manually managing their light with a digital camera than they will relying on TTL. Shooting digital underwater is almost like shooting wide angle in 5 feet of water on a sunny day. A slight bit of flash will go a long long way in a digital body and the exposure mapping in the camera will render (according to your settings) a nicely exposed image. If you can aim your strobe/torch (which you've got to do with TTL anyway) you can really create nicely lit photographs without relying on TTL. Something I have been kicking around is making a couple housings for Nikon N90/F90 and N8008/N801 bodies. You can get really nice 35mm bodies off eBay for a couple hundred bucks, and would be no huge loss to flood one, unlike a new digital. I just bought a cherry N801 for $150. A 50mm 1.8 would probably take nice pictures, if it would work with autofocus and metering, which is exactly what I don't know (I'd probably make the housing out of black HDPE or Acetal), you would need only one mechanism to trip the shutter. I'd like to keep penetrations to a minimum and make them cheap to have. Infra-red trigger of the flash, with a dismounted slave, would be something else I would be interested in pursuing. If the autofocus, metering and such work well underwater, you could conceivably make it small and inexpensive enough to carry one for general, and another for macro.  SignatureBoth the cockroach and the bird would get along very well without us, although the cockroach would miss us most. -- Joseph Wood Krutch > Something I have been kicking around is making a couple housings for Nikon > N90/F90 and N8008/N801 bodies. Why? Firstly you can get several types of underwater housing or these older cameras (I have had a Subal for the F(N)801 and have an Aquatica for the F90x(s), so why re-invent he wheel? Secondly, I though that this thread was about DIGITAL SLR's not the older 35mm cameras. Maybe you should start your own thread? > > Something I have been kicking around is making a couple housings for Nikon > > N90/F90 and N8008/N801 bodies. > > > Why? Because I am a machinist and can build one far less expensively than you can buy one. > Firstly you can get several types of underwater housing or these older > cameras (I have had a Subal for the F(N)801 and have an Aquatica for the > F90x(s), so why re-invent he wheel? It's hardly reiventing the wheel. Overly complex and hideously priced. A crappy used one goes for $800 +. > Secondly, I though that this thread was about DIGITAL SLR's not the older > 35mm cameras. I was hoping someone who knew would let me in on some of the question, which you apparently are either unable or unwilling to answer. > Maybe you should start your own thread? Maybe you should stop telling people what to do? > > Maybe you should start your own thread? > > Maybe you should stop telling people what to do? Bloody hell you are an aggressive bastard. All I was pointing out was that if you had your own thread you would receive many more responses directly related to your questions. If you've got that attitude then don't expect any help. > > > Maybe you should start your own thread? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All I was pointing out was that if you had your own thread you would receive > many more responses directly related to your questions. His own thread? ahahahhaaha Ownership of a thread in rec.scuba? ahahahhahaha Do a google search on that Tony. > If you've got that attitude then don't expect any help. ahahahaha . . . Could u send me a link to this camera?'m not familier w/it??? Thank u > > [Hugh wrote]: > > > My advice would be: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > It is the best for middlin' money. but not for the money. True, although there's always going to be trade-offs that have to be made, and cost is usually one of them. Given that Tony's trying to salvage a used strobe that lacks impressive performance values in the first place (see http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/compare_ys60.html), the EOS-DsMkII is clearly out of his market range. FWIW, its also more than I'd consider for a new system today too...afterall, a Nikon CoolScan 5000 w/bulk feeder transforms to a mere $1600 accessory :-) [tony, continuing on the D70]: > > but no-one (other than the Nikon SB800 flash which is not an > > underwater unit) wil sync at TTL with this. Ikelite is working on a TTL compatible UW strobe for the D70 & D100. See URL http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/2dm100strobes.html ...which reports that they expect to have it ready in 1Q 2005. BTW, do note that they do already have an UW housing for the D70. And its pure speculation on my part, but I'd anticipate that the performance of their forthcoming D-70/D-100 compatible strobe will probably be the equal of their SubStrobe DS-125, including its 1 sec recycle time. > Digital has made TTL less necessary and indeed almost without need. Most > will do much better manually managing their light with a digital camera than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you can aim your strobe/torch (which you've got to do with TTL anyway) you > can really create nicely lit photographs without relying on TTL. What do you attribute this to? A functionally wider 'exposure latitude'? -hh > What do you attribute this to? A functionally wider 'exposure latitude'? Oh, absolutely....digital is negatives squared when it comes to exposure latitude, even before post-production work begins. The management software in upper level cameras is extraordinary. Essentially one uses far less light with digital than with film. And the reason is the hardware sensitivity and the exposure latitude. An expample is that Ike's DS125 is more than enough strobe for any digital camera, but lacks sufficient power (I don't care what his marketing position on it is) for film in most WA applications underwater. In fact, the DS125 is actually far more strobe than one needs underwater if shooting digital. Ike hit the nail on the head with that particular product, it has almost perfect power and quality of light for digital applications ---- I just wish he wouldn't tell people it and the DS50 are equally effective for film shooters too. > True, although there's always going to be trade-offs that have to be > made, and cost is usually one of them. As with everything in life! Just as you cannot get Ferrari performance & handling from a ?10,000 production car. > Given that Tony's trying to salvage a used strobe that lacks impressive > performance values in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ikelite is working on a TTL compatible UW strobe for the D70 & D100. As are other manufacturers, such as Inon. Their new models with modelling light, laser pointer and twin flash tube look very good value for money & feature wise. They are also rated to 100m (330ft) rather then the 60m (200ft) of most of the other makes. > See URL http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/2dm100strobes.html > > ...which reports that they expect to have it ready in 1Q 2005. BTW, do > note that they do already have an UW housing for the D70. That would be nice, except that I've been told that Nikon have yet to release details of the new iTTL system used on the D70, so unless they are reverse engineering a Nikon 200 flash they wont be having a unit ready by early 2005. > And its pure speculation on my part, but I'd anticipate that the > performance of their forthcoming D-70/D-100 compatible strobe will > probably be the equal of their SubStrobe DS-125, including its 1 sec > recycle time. They will only be looking at a new TTL circuit, not an entire new flash, as the additional cost of tooling up for the body, circuits and design would then make it prohibitively expensive, especially with the speed of change in digital photography. > > Ikelite... > > See URL http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/2dm100strobes.html [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > reverse engineering a Nikon 200 flash they wont be having a unit ready by > early 2005. Assume Reverse Engineering. Ikelite has a history of being able to sort out what makes new TTL's tick without factory documentation. Also note that a claim of 1Q05 is of Retail product availability and is within the next 4 months. This infers that they have confidence in their design solution and have probably moved on to sorting out parts suppliers and production schedule details to fill the supply chain. > > And its pure speculation on my part, but I'd anticipate that the > > performance of their forthcoming D-70/D-100 compatible strobe will > > probably be the equal of their SubStrobe DS-125, including its 1 sec > > recycle time. > > They will only be looking at a new TTL circuit, not an entire new flash... Agreed, and although I think a design revision to existing strobe(s) is more likely, it could also be done as an interface/transformation box too. The only real question I see is if it is the former, will their Retail product names change or will they remain the same? There's reasonable rationale for either approach. -hh > Assume Reverse Engineering. Ikelite has a history of being able to sort > out what makes new TTL's tick without factory documentation. Yep. Nikon has released the protocols, which if you talk to Ike, he is good to go with that amount of documentation. Ikelite updated the SS200 for use with F5 and F100 before ever having operation/mapping documentation on the cameras. He simply used the published protocols for each camera and figured it out themselves. I am glad to see some educated discussion on this topic. However, as a relative n00b to underwater photography I hope someone can point me to better resources on the digicam strobe issues? eTTL and the other acronyms here leave me a bit lost. I am looking to upgrade from my starter film setup to something decent in the new year, but lack enough background information. I had been idly thinking about a Canon G6 as the camera. There seems to be conflicting opinions on whether TTL or eTTL is even needed for underwater photography. SignatureVincent Fox Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 Internet: vf5@mail.gatech.edu |
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